On Sun, 20 May 2001 17:01:04 GMT, philscott88@hotmail.com (Phil Scott) wrote in <3b07f812.4036764@news.tdl.com>: >On Sun, 20 May 2001 07:17:01 -0700, barb
><bwarr1@home.com> wrote:
>>Roger, I thought the Tabayoyons hadn't heard from their son in what? 20
>>years or so now?
It has been 9 years since he saw his son. He told me so in email in January 2001. You can easily email him yourself. Please be nice and respectful, or you may not get an answer. I think he is just sick of ars and probably doesn't read anymore. >well that USED to be the case, but now Andre has quit
>talking, Roger is speculating that he cut a deal with
>the cult, his silence in exchange for seeing his son.
Unless that has happened since January of this year, it is not true. Why not ask him, instead of speculating? Following are a post from him, a response from Travis Sargent, and Andre's response to Travis. I agree with Andre on many of the points he makes below. The subject of the thread was "hate vs hate ?" You can see the whole thread on google at: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&ic=1&th=3f152d085671cf26,34&seekm=20010113203149.13535.00002822%40ng-md1.aol.com#p Message-ID: <3A6026F4.BC432574@pop.phnx.uswest.net>
From: andret27@pop.phnx.uswest.net
Subject: hate vs hate ?
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:59:17 +0000

The Scientologists hate the critics. The Critics hate scientology. They are both peoples who I know : peoples who have hearts who are happy and sometimes laugh and are sad and sometime cry. I was in scientology for over 22 years. I left and have been out for 8 years. In all that time its been scientology's hate towards critics, and critics' hate toward scientology, will there ever be real peace, will there ever be warm greetings among the peoples of two groups who hate each other so much for so little reasons? None of us were born out of hate, it was love that allowed us to be conceived, not hate. I have actually seen the end result of hate in the battle fields of Vietnam. Sometimes it is easier to hate for all the wrong reasons, and harder to love for all the right reasons. The true challenge to both groups would be to love each other without conditions. Love and happiness are one in the daily existence of men and women on earth. Message-ID: <20010113203149.13535.00002822@ng-md1.aol.com>
From: TravisSargent (travissargent@aol.com)
Subject: Re: hate vs hate ?
Date: 2001-01-13 17:34:08 PST
On Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:59:17 +0000, andret27@pop.phnx.uswest.net wrote: >
>The Scientologists hate the critics. The Critics hate
>scientology. They are both peoples who I know : peoples
>who have hearts who are happy and sometimes laugh and are
>sad and sometime cry. I was in scientology for over 22
>years. I left and have been out for 8 years. In all that
>time its been scientology's hate towards critics, and
>critics' hate toward scientology, will there ever be real
>peace, will there ever be warm greetings among the peoples
>of two groups who hate each other so much for so little
>reasons?
>
>None of us were born out of hate, it was love that allowed
>us to be conceived, not hate. I have actually seen the end
>result of hate in the battle fields of Vietnam. Sometimes it
>is easier to hate for all the wrong reasons, and harder to
>love for all the right reasons.
>
>The true challenge to both groups would be to love each
>other without conditions.
>
>Love and happiness are one in the daily existence of men and
>women on earth.
You misunderstand Andre. For the record, we don't hate the critics. Not evenly vaguely. Though their tactics may be deplorable, we know that it only comes out of either ... their many misunderstandings ... and/or (with some) ... things about themselves they would be either too embarrassed or too afraid to reveal. [Heavy is the heart that harbors transgression and/or hate.] Just for an experiment some time, compare the typical language used by most a.r.s. regulars and ours. That will give you an insight as to where the hate ~really~ is. Additionally, the tendency (the impulse) is to attack that which is not understood. For a number of reasons many of the critics who attack Scientology simply have no clue about what the ~real~ Scientology is and does. Thus, though understanding replaces what might otherwise become hate on our part ... we still have a responsibility to protect Scientology for people of goodwill ... and to lurkers and newbies as to what Scientology ~actually~ is and does. So we communicate here. I hope that helped clear the air a little. Travis Sargent
Message-ID: <3A660F56.C76DDEA3@pop.phnx.uswest.net>
From: andret27@pop.phnx.uswest.net
Subject: Re: hate vs hate ?
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 21:32:07 +0000
No travis I understand clearly, Scientology is hateful, cruel and decitful. I learned that if you dont believe totally you are treated as lower class citizen, sent to concentration camp till you can act like a proper, on ploicy sea org member ready to follow all the rules, regs that help the orgs make more money, and get more people into the church, to clear the planet means just that. " get rid of all opposition to the goal" It is the responsibility of every scientologist to keep scientology working that means every single word that has been written by Hubbard. Every single word!!!. You may or may not have read the complete text of sceintology. But the words are very clear as to the intentions and how people who oppose scientology are to be handled!!! proof of this is so evident in the factual actions of every scientologists who reads, understands and applies the written words. Translated into action are calculated to cause the opposition to experience the emotions that are found on the lower levels of the tone scale. I was there in many of the major actions that occured on the ship, on land bases. The result is hateful actions that create hateful reactions and result in hateful, feelings. There is no right or wrong. Scientologist are professionally trained in the art of creating hateful hearts. I worked with hubbard he created hate in his church. This is not disputable. If you spent any time with him you could have experienced this first hand. In his writings of the insane, he describes the actions of critics, people who dont want to understand, people express their true feelings about the church and its policy and its tech, this is always translated and understood as opposition to scientology. On the other hand the critics, hate, hate, hate. They do anything to expose scientology and its ways. They go to all extremes, all have experienced the policies of hate applied to them because they are critical. They only react to the unworkablity of scientology. You have to admit that the sea org members who handled Lisa really mis applied, mis understood, and applied their understanding of the "tech". You and the church say "oh they ment well " and " its really none of your business" and " we are protected by the 1st ammendment" but in all your screamings, and yellings, you don't see that the result of the application of the tech CRERATED THE HATE YOU EXPERIENCE from critics. Critics hate you because you produce hateful results, you have many instances of hateful deeds, Travis, when you were at the AO, you experienced the result of this, that is why you decided to blow and leave. This was a mis application of Tech, you became an ENEMY of the church and were infact HATED, for your deed against the church. The critics and scientologists are in a hate fest. If you stopped for a minute with out pointing the finger and eximined your acitons. You could see that every aciton you do is only resulting in creating more hate, hate, hate. There is so much hate and darkness being created here, because your church cannot and will not ever leave the words that created hateful results, that have been written by Hubbard. As I go you will continue to hate and be hated, because you have no intention of looking at what you and scientology have created here on this planet in the name of sanity Baron wrote: > Well put, Travis.
>
<Travis's quoted post snipped>


From: philscott88@hotmail.com (Phil Scott)
Subject: Re: Did Andre say how the machine guns were deployed at Gold base?
Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 16:58:04 GMT
Message-ID: <3b07f29c.2638143@news.tdl.com>
On Sun, 20 May 2001 01:49:35 -0600, "Nelson" <nelsonjr@powersurfr.com> wrote: >You really want another waco now dont you?
No, actually I dont. I protested both Waco and Ruby ridge as they were happening, one of my acquaintances was involved in the Ruby ridge attrocity, and I got inside data on that, enough to sicken a person for life. The FBI committed cold blooded murder at Ruby Ridge, beginning by shooting a child in the back, then shooting Weavers wifes head in half while she held her infant son, then lied about it in court, got caught lying repeatedly by Randy Weavers legal council, Jerry Spence, (his book on the the subject is mind blowing), the govt had to pay 3 million dollars to Randy weaver. But the agents involved in the crimes all got promoted! However, the lying scum of a federal prosecutor that tried to prosectute the case was so reviled in Idaho, and his family so upset by his ruthless lies in court that they left him. He had to go on tranquilizers, and I suspect more booze. A real world class vicious back stabbing prick that one, its almost like he was trained by the cult. I am not a fan of the FBI. Unfortunately all we have in this country to counter the criminal cult at this time are federal agencies. I am hoping that with world wide attention on this mess, and with the US state dept trying to jam the criminal cult down the throats of other governments, that these governments, primarily German and French governments, will take the opportunity to expose the corruption and cult connections in the US. The Waco case you see **did not involve US govt officials in 'extremely creative realestate deals' and the like... that was simply two ruthlessly corrupt American law enforcement agencies gone berserk (the BATF was the worst, almost disbanded by congress as a result, the FBI was almost as bad, and since heavily revamped). (however it must be noted, that without exception the corrupt law enforcement officials involved were *promoted as a result of thier certifiably and in the case of Ruby ridge, court documented criminal behavior in these two cases.) In this case with Slatking, the FBI will be acting as an arm of the corrupt US govt to try and sweep this mess under the rug. So far they and the SEC has done a superb job of that, giving all those involved weeks to shred evidence and get assets hidden, and washout ties to the govt officials that have helped them forward their agenda. I am posting material about the cults weapons stash simple to alert the citizens of this country and especially those in Riverside County to what it is thier govt has been supporting. Meantime if the cult comes clean, gets rid of its arsinal, ceases training its staff in how to kill and disable (see the Tabayoyan affidavit), then the even the FBI would not have reason to send in tanks, and machine gun the place from choppers. Phil Scott (415) 927 7573

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