Scientology --- Re: Recap of the story of Miss Bloodybutt

Re: Recap of the story of Miss Bloodybutt - for Tom Klemesrud

On Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:52:48 GMT, frice@SPAMNOTlinkline.com (Rev Fredric L.

Rice) wrote:

> atroll@devon.ut.gov (Another Troll) wrote:
>> On 20 Mar 2001 16:03:35 -0600, crawford@kloognome.com (Robert A
>> Crawford) wrote:
> It's also interesting to note that the Scientology cult put on a show of
> trying to locate this female OSA agent of theirs. They tried to deny that
> she was one of theirs and yet when a message was posted purportedly to be
> from Miss Bloody Butt, the Scientology crooks put on a show of trying to
> track her identity down.
> Since she was apparenlt working out of Moxon's office, I would think that
> her identity would be known to the crooks.
Her first action on leaving Tom Klemesrud's was to call Eugene Martin Ingram.

Her second action was to have an interview with Scientology lawyer Don Wager.

Shortly afterwards, a seeming DA pack was prematurely posted by -AB-, who Klemesrud alleges to be Thomas Gerard Rummelhart. This concerned Tom Klemesrud, and was a statement apparently supporting Linda Woolard's version of events. This was posted through anon.penet.fi. Scientology contacted the Finnish police, alleging that information about Linda Woolard was stolen from their internal computer network (presumably INCOMM). Officer Kaj Malmberg of Helsinki responded and a legal standoff concerning the data occurred, which ended with divulging the identity of said -AB-, who then was never seen again (unless Tom K or someone else has information otherwise).

The claim that "Linda Woolard" or whatever her name really was had nothing to do with Scientology causes very serious questions to arise. If she had nothing to do with Scientology, then why did she immediately call Scientology private investigator and former (?) pimp Eugene Martin Ingram right after the frame-up incident? Why then did she immediately give a statement to Scientology lawyer Don Wager? Why was information concerning her posted through anon.penet.fi and why did Scientology lawyers immediately claim to Finnish police that this was confidential information stolen from their internal computer network?

This leads to the obvious conclusion that "Linda Woolard" was a Scientology agent, as she claimed to Tom Klemesrud in the first place.

Here are Kaj Malmberg's posts on the subject--note that Kaj's identity as a Finnish police officer was independently verified at the time, making him, I believe, the only law enforcement officer ever to post to alt.religion.scientology in an official capacity.

He was, of course, immediately accused of being a Scientologist ;-)

Any questions about why and what I did can be sent to me. I will answer the parts than are not classified.

Kaj Malmberg det.sgt.

Helsinki Police kaj.malmberg@helsinki.poliisi.mailnet.fi --- From kaj.malmberg@mallu.pp.fi Tue Jul 11 19:28:25 1995 From: kaj.malmberg@mallu.pp.fi (Kaj Malmberg)
Subject: Re: Finnish Police Contact info and more..
Date: 11 Jul 1995 17:28:25 GMT
Message-ID: <3tucbp$n5f@idefix.eunet.fi>
I am not interested in any cults, they do not fitt my way of seeing the world. I do not want any scientology material, --- From ???@??? Sun Jul 09 04:00:32 1995 Received: from nova.unix.portal.com (nova.unix.portal.com Received: from personal.eunet.fi (personal.eunet.fi [192.26.119.4]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id DAA15381 for <hkhenson@shell.portal.com>; Sun, 9 Jul 1995 03:00:30 -0700 Received: from mallu.pp.fi by personal.eunet.fi with SMTP id AA01958 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for <hkhenson@shell.portal.com>); Sun, 9 Jul 1995 13:01:15 +0300 Message-Id: <199507091001.AA01958@personal.eunet.fi>

Date: Sun, 09 Jul 1995 12:34:24 +0300
To: H Keith Henson <hkhenson@shell.portal.com>

From: kaj.malmberg@mallu.pp.fi (Kaj Malmberg)
Subject: Re: Helsinki police contact info
>Dear Detective Malmberg:
>X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
>
>Thank you very much for posting your email address to alt.religion.
>scientology. As you likely already know, there are many questions
>the people there have about the raid.
>
>I guess the most important question we have is about the origin of
>the orders for the raid. No police organization has been found in
>the United States which made the original request to Interpol. It
>seems likely at this point that the Scientologist organization made
>a private request to Interpol. Can you tell us if the raid was the
>result such a request?
>
This Scientology case started on day when a lawyer from a very respected law office contacted us and said he was representing the Church of Scientology and that he had in his office a privat investigator from the United States that had come here to investigate on behalf of the church.

They came to my office in Helsinki and told me that someone had penetrated in to a computer in Los Angeles and taken secret information form it. The computer was the property of the Church of Scientology.
>I don't know much about Interpol. Do they normally respond to non
>law enforcement requests? Do you have any way of determining who
>the raid request came from?
>
Interpol is not a policeorganization. Most of the countries in the world have joined Interpol and therefore assign a part of its organization to be called Interpol. Interpol does not investigate crimes nore excecute any police duties. It only sends mail from one country to another and keep registers.

If I want to send a letter to a law enforcement agency in another country, I send it to our local Interpol, that sends it to the other country and to its Interpol agency, that in turn sends it ot the local police.

Interpol never has an active part in investigating crimes.

>Did you turn the name you aquired from Penet over to the Scientologists
>directly?
>
When I got the information from Helsingius, I could see that the crime had been committed from the United States. I had seen a document that showed me that there was an investigation about the same case in Los Angeles.

As there was an investigation going on in the United States and it the crime had been commited from there we decided to end our investigation. I wrote a letter ot our Interpol and asked them to forward our findings to the police in Los Angeles.

I gave the results of our investigation to the person who had reported the crime, the finnish lawyer.

>If you have been following this story, you may know that the person
>known as -AB- was located by the Church of Scientology. This person
>can no longer be located, and there is wide speculation that he was
>killed.
>
I really have not heard anything about what has happened after I left tha case.

That was it. I do not know what has happened after that in Los Angeles to the investigation there. Police organizations do not report to other countries their results.

>As far as I know, noone blames the Finland Police or yourself for
>what happened. But we are very concerned for the level of influence
>which the CoS seems to have over Interpol.
>
>Thanks for any answers you may be able to provide. You may post
>this letter as part of your response if you wish. Unless you ask
>me not to, I will post your reply to a.r.s, because there is wide
>interest in this topic.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Keith Henson
>San Jose, CA, USA
>
>
Tahnk your for your letter. I hope you have som use of my answer.

Kaj Malmberg Helsinki Police -------------------- I certainly appreciate Detective Malmberg coming forward with this information. It seems from these reports that Interpol was involved only after the fact. Since Julf is there, and rather interested in the case, perhaps he could pick up the report? I would be happy to forward the cost to Julf, plus something for his time translating and posting to this group.

It would also be of great interest to know the name of the investigator CoS sent to Finland, and just exactly who got the report routed through Interpol after the name was obtained. Keith Henson --- From kaj.malmberg@mallu.pp.fi Sun Jul 09 12:51:58 1995 From: kaj.malmberg@mallu.pp.fi (Kaj Malmberg)
Subject: Finnish Police Contact info and more..
Date: 9 Jul 1995 10:51:58 GMT
Message-ID: <3tocce$i2f@idefix.eunet.fi>
I work at the Helsinki Police Criminal Investigating Departement in Helsinki. I investigate economic crimes and crimes that involves the use of a computers.

Helsinki Police Department is the local police.

Interpol is not a policeorganization. Most of the countries in the world have joined Interpol and therefore assign a part of its organization to be called Interpol. Interpol does not investigate crimes nore excecute any police duties. It only sends mail from one country to another and keep registers.

Interpol never has an active part in investigating crimes.

This Scientology case started on day when a lawyer from a very respected law office contacted us and said he was representing the Church of Scientology and that he had in his office a privat investigator from the United States that had come here to investigate on behalf of the church.

The investigator had found out that the penetrator had come into the computer from Finland and their last information about the person ended at the Anon Penet computer in Helsinki.

I was asked by the Church of Scientology to start an investigation because a crime had been committed. They told me that Johan Helsingius at Eunet Finland did not give them the information they needed, the identity of the person who had committed the crime.

We took the case under consideration with my boss Harri Pulkkinen.

He has the authority to issue a search warrant by law in Finland.

A search warrant can be issued if there are reasons to believe that a crime has been committed, a crime that you can get at least a 6 months prison sentence for, and that there are reasons to believe that evidence in that particular case can be found in the place where the search will be held.

A crime had been reported, evidence to solve the crime could be found.

The only thing we could do was to get the information from the Anon server. A search warrant was issued and it was served to Johan Helsingius. Without us searching the hole computer, Helsingius gave us the information we wanted.

When I got the information from Helsingius, I could see that the crime had been committed from the United States. I had seen a document that showed me that there was an investigation about the same case in Los Angeles.

I gave the results of our investigation to the person who had reported the crime, the finnish lawyer.

That was it. I do not know what has happened after that in Los Angeles to the investigation there. Police organizations do not report to other countries their results.

If someone reports a crime we must act. We do not have the wright to refuse an investigation if there are reasons to believe, that a crime has been committed, if we did we would end up in jail.ЦЦЦЦЦ As we the investigation has come an end, all documents are public.

Anyone has the wright to get copies. You only have to pay s small sum for copying them. I cannot send them by the Internet but if someone in Finland got them from our office, that person could send them to everyone on the net.

My office telephone: +358-0-189 5425. I work from 8 - 16 (+3 GMT). My office mail: kaj.malmberg@helsinki.poliisi.mailnet.fi.

--- From rogue@ccs.neu.edu Sun Jul 09 16:40:30 1995 From: rogue@ccs.neu.edu (R Agent)
Subject: Re: Finnish Police Contact info and more..
Date: 9 Jul 1995 14:40:30 GMT
Organization: College of Computer Science, Northeastern University
Message-ID: <3topou$rig@camelot.ccs.neu.edu>
In article <3tocce$i2f@idefix.eunet.fi>, Kaj Malmberg <kaj.malmberg@mallu.pp.fi> wrote:

[...] >When I got the information from Helsingius, I could see that the crime
>had been committed from the United States. I had seen a document that
>showed me that there was an investigation about the same case in Los
>Angeles.
Is the document about the LA investigation in your local file, which you say we can get copies of? This would be very helpful in tracking the source of the leak.

>As there was an investigation going on in the United States and it the
>crime had been commited from there we decided to end our investigation. I
>wrote a letter ot our Interpol and asked them to forward our findings to
>the police in Los Angeles.
Your "findings" included the name of the user from anon.penet.fi, yes?

So you gave the name to your Interpol and asked them to give it to the LA police?

>I gave the results of our investigation to the person who had reported
>the crime, the finnish lawyer.
When you say you gave the "results" to the Finnish lawyer, do you mean you told him you had the name and gave it to your Interpol, or do you mean you gave the name to the lawyer directly?

[...] >As we the investigation has come an end, all documents are public.
>Anyone has the wright to get copies. You only have to pay s small sum for
>copying them. I cannot send them by the Internet but if someone in
>Finland got them from our office, that person could send them to everyone
>on the net.
I think someone will be taking you up on this quite soon. Thanks very much for the information.

>My office telephone: +358-0-189 5425. I work from 8 - 16 (+3 GMT). My
>office mail: kaj.malmberg@helsinki.poliisi.mailnet.fi.
[posted and mailed] RA rogue@ccs.neu.edu (Rogue Agent/KoX/ACT Kha Khan/ARS Project Entheta IC) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The NSA is now funding research not only in cryptography, but in all areas of advanced mathematics. If you'd like a circular describing these new research opportunities, just pick up your phone, call your mother, and ask for one.

--- From cyber1@io.org Sun Jul 09 17:30:47 1995 From: cyber1@io.org (x)
Subject: Re: Finnish Police Contact info and more..
Date: 9 Jul 1995 11:30:47 -0400
Organization: Internex Online (Data: 363-3783/Telnet: io.org)
Message-ID: <3tosn7$e5p@ionews.io.org>
Kaj Malmberg <kaj.malmberg@mallu.pp.fi> wrote:

>A search warrant can be issued if there are reasons to believe that a
>crime has been committed, a crime that you can get at least a 6 months
>prison sentence for, and that there are reasons to believe that evidence
>in that particular case can be found in the place where the search will
>be held.
>
>A crime had been reported, evidence to solve the crime could be found.
A crime has been committed all right. The crime of False Pretense or Public Mischief.

>As we the investigation has come an end, all documents are public.
>Anyone has the wright to get copies. You only have to pay s small sum for
>copying them. I cannot send them by the Internet but if someone in
>Finland got them from our office, that person could send them to everyone
>on the net.
This will be very helpful. What is the case number, and what is the name and address for payment?

--- From anon-remailer@utopia.hacktic.nl Sun Jul 09 19:15:00 1995 From: Anonymous <anon-remailer@utopia.hacktic.nl>
Subject: Finnish Police Contact info and more..
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 1995 19:15:00 +0200
Organization: Hack-Tic International, Inc.
Message-ID: <199507091715.TAA08083@utopia.hacktic.nl>
Comments: Hack-Tic may or may not approve of the content of this posting Comments: Please report misuse of this automated remailing service to <postmaster@utopia.hacktic.nl>

In article <3tocce$i2f@idefix.eunet.fi>

kaj.malmberg@mallu.pp.fi "Kaj Malmberg" writes:

> I work at the Helsinki Police Criminal Investigating Departement in > Helsinki. I investigate economic crimes and crimes that involves the use > of a computers. Helsinki Police Department is the local police.

Isn't it a pity that you seem to know so very little about what is and isn't possible in terms of hacking? (Most flatfoots don't, btw) > If I want to send a letter to a law enforcement agency in another > country, I send it to our local Interpol, that sends it to the other > country and to its Interpol agency, that in turn sends it to the local > police. Interpol never has an active part in investigating crimes.

Gee, really?

> This Scientology case started on day when a lawyer from a very respected > law office contacted us and said he was representing the Church of > Scientology and that he had in his office a privat investigator from the > United States that had come here to investigate on behalf of the church.

So why wasn't it referred to the Finnish police, through Interpol?

> They came to my office in Helsinki and told me that someone had > penetrated in to a computer in Los Angeles and taken secret information > form it. The computer was the property of the Church of Scientology.

Even were that true, no crime would appear to have been committed in Finnish jurisdiction, so why did they seek to involve the Finnish police? Don't you bother to ask these questions, or do you "only obey orders"? Or is this account that you've belatedly put up just another load of Scieno bullshit?

> The investigator had found out that the penetrator had come into the > computer from Finland and their last information about the person ended > at the Anon Penet computer in Helsinki.

Which was a lie on the part of the Scientologists and, moreover, it was an obvious lie; there is no way that the alleged hack could have been done through the anon.penet remailer. Didn't you trouble to ask them how such an alleged offence could have been committed? Or did you just assume that the alleged crime was done by a Finnish citizen?

So, now that it's been established that the private investigator told lies to get the information, what has been done about those lies he told? Isn't telling lies to the police that they may investigate a non-existent crime itself a serious criminal offence in Finland?

Was the PI one Eugene Ingram, by any chance?

The same Eugene Ingram who is wanted for several alleged offences Stateside?

Do you now understand why you're making the Finnish police seem less credible than the Keystone Kops?

> I was asked by the Church of Scientology to start an investigation > because a crime had been committed. They told me that Johan Helsingius at > Eunet Finland did not give them the information they needed, the identity > of the person who had committed the crime.

> We took the case under consideration with my boss Harri Pulkkinen.

... on the basis that two heads are better than one, even if neither really knows much about the subject?

And if the offence has been committed in Finnish jurisduction or if the alleged offence is one for which extradition may be granted? Or do you regularly search people's property on the say-so of some spiv from a crackpot cult?

> When I got the information from Helsingius, I could see that the crime > had been committed from the United States. I had seen a document that > showed me that there was an investigation about the same case in Los > Angeles.

And therefore you could see that no crime had, in fact, been committed in Finnish juridiction and that you had been lied to by the Scieno spiv.

> As there was an investigation going on in the United States and it the > crime had been commited from there we decided to end our investigation.

You weren't interested that you'd been tricked or that lies had been told to you? Why not?

> I gave the results of our investigation to the person who had reported > the crime, the finnish lawyer.

Is that not, of itself, a gross violation of correct procedure - apart from your having seemed to have convicted the suspect all by yourself?

Would you have done the same, if the tale had involved the Mafia?

> If someone reports a crime we must act. We do not have the wright to > refuse an investigation if there are reasons to believe, that a crime has > been committed, if we did we would end up in jail.

So, what are you doing about the way that the Finnish police were tricked, cheated and conned? Or do you imagine that laying false information before the police isn't a crime?

One last question: Are you, in fact, a Scientologist?

+-------+ | Culex | "The Infamous Culex"

+-------+ ============================================================================== Support Dennis Erlich! Send cheques (any currency) payable to Morrison & Foerster and labelled DENNIS ERLICH DEFENCE FUND to:

Carla Oakley/Katie Walsh, MORRISON & FOERSTER, 345 California St, San Francisco CA 94104-2675 Tel (415) 677-7700 For verification of this info, email ssteele@eff.org (Shari Steele) ============================================================================== --- From kaj.malmberg@mallu.pp.fi Thu Jul 20 20:28:54 1995 From: kaj.malmberg@mallu.pp.fi (Kaj Malmberg)
Subject: Re: Helsinki Police documents [images]
Date: 20 Jul 1995 18:28:54 GMT
Message-ID: <3um797$1du@idefix.eunet.fi>

Translation:

This year between January 21 at 12.44 Finnsih time 12.44 and January 23.

22.07 somebody unknown penetrated without permission the CSI computersystem and has used the computer and stole from it information stored in electronic form.

This translation has been done by Kaj Malmberg.

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