:

vs. :

:

JESSE PRINCE :

SPN 02157727 :

:

------------------------x DEPONENT: MR. HOWARD CROSBY DATE: May 15, 2001 TIME: 11:50 a.m. - 12:45 p.m.

LOCATION: Criminal Justice Center 14250 49th Street North Room 1100 Clearwater, FL 33762 REPORTER: Crissy Cladakis Stenographic Reporter Notary Public State of Florida at Large ---------------------------------------------------- D & D REPORTING SERVICE 915 Chestnut Street Clearwater, FL 33756 (727) 468-2002 2 APPEARANCES:

For the State: LYDIA WARDELL, ESQUIRE Assistant State Attorney 14250 49th Street North Clearwater, FL 33760 For Jesse Prince: DENIS M. de VLAMING, ESQUIRE Denis M. de Vlaming, P.A.

1101 Turner Street Clearwater, FL 33756 * * * * I N D E X Direct Examination by Mr. de Vlaming ............ 3 Cross-Examination by Mrs. Wardell ............... 43 Redirect Examination by Mr. de Vlaming .......... 47 3 1 HOWARD CROSBY, 2 WAS CALLED AND AFTER BEING DULY SWORN WAS EXAMINED AND 3 TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:

4 5 EXAMINATION 6 BY MR. de VLAMING:

7 Q. State your name and occupation.

8 A. Howard Crosby, Sergeant, afternoon shift, 9 Largo Police.

10 Q. And how long have you been with the Largo 11 Police Department?

12 A. Going on 20 years.

13 Q. And are you in a particular division or 14 assignment?

15 A. Patrol.

16 Q. Have you ever been a detective?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. What years, approximately?

19 A. About seven years. I was taken out of 20 investigations about nine months ago.

21 Q. Okay. So you were a detective, then, from 22 nine months ago back for about seven years?

23 A. About, yeah.

24 Q. All right. And was it in vice narcotics?

25 A. Yes.

4 1 Q. And have you had any previous law enforcement 2 experience?

3 A. No.

4 Q. Was there a time when you were contacted 5 concerning an investigation involving a citizen named 6 Jesse Prince?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. And who contacted you?

9 A. It was originally Officer Desjardins'. I 10 mean, I was in the narcotics, so he made the contact 11 to me.

12 Q. And what did he say?

13 A. That he had a private investigator, Raftery, 14 that was doing an investigation and had information 15 for me.

16 Q. And did you meet with this man named Raftery?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. And was it at the police department?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. And feel free to look at your report. I've 21 already been given a copy. Do you remember the date 22 that you met with Raftery?

23 A. No.

24 Q. Do you remember, roughly, the substance of 25 the conversation that he had with you?

5 1 A. Yes. He said that a black male by the name 2 of Jesse Prince is dealing drugs and that he has been 3 hired by the Scientologists to investigate him.

4 Q. And did you do anything to check that out or 5 did you accept that at face value?

6 A. He had told me that he -- they had been 7 observing him. They have another investigator that is 8 becoming his friend, and the other investigator has 9 told him that he has seen some stuff going on with the 10 smoking of the marijuana and everything.

11 Q. Did Mr. Raftery indicate that he had any 12 contact with Mr. Prince; that is, that he used drugs 13 with him or anything of that nature?

14 A. No.

15 Q. So Raftery, then, was just telling you that 16 there was a fellow named Jesse Prince that was 17 involved in drugs in some capacity?

18 A. The way I took it was Raftery was, like, the 19 boss of other investigators, and he was just giving me 20 the case from what his other investigators are doing.

21 Q. Did he tell you that one of his other 22 investigators was going to contact you about Mr.

23 Prince or about making a case involving Prince?

24 A. Yes. That was the investigator that was 25 becoming friends with Prince.

6 1 Q. But I mean, did Raftery tell you, "I'm going 2 to be introducing you to this man so that you can make 3 a case, if there is one"?

4 A. Right, yes.

5 Q. And did you have any further conversation 6 with Raftery?

7 A. Numerous times.

8 Q. All right.

9 A. But what it came down to is me meeting the 10 other investigator and us -- me being introduced to 11 Prince.

12 Q. Did Raftery contact you on numerous occasions 13 to find out the status of the investigation?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. You're smiling. Are we talking about almost 16 daily or every other day?

17 A. He contacted me frequently, yes.

18 Q. And what would you tell him?

19 A. Well, for a while there, I didn't do 20 anything, because I was too busy and I just kept 21 telling him that I was too busy and I would get to 22 this one. Because I was working out of a task force 23 for the county. So I had that to do and this came up, 24 so I was -- it was put on the back burner for a while.

25 And then when I did meet with Barry, who was 7 1 the other investigator, that's when we set up to meet 2 Jesse Prince.

3 Q. Before we get into that, did Raftery tell you 4 in any way that The Church of Scientology was behind 5 the investigation or had hired him to conduct this 6 investigation?

7 A. He worked for The Church of Scientology, yes.

8 Q. So it was his boss, then, that had instituted 9 the investigation?

10 A. I assumed so. Yes, most likely.

11 Q. All right. And did that raise any flags to 12 you?

13 A. Yeah.

14 Q. In what respect?

15 A. That I really didn't want to work for them or 16 have anything to do with their case. But if I'm being 17 given that someone is doing drugs, then I have to 18 investigate it. So either way, I was kind of stuck.

19 Q. Okay. Did Mr. Raftery tell you things 20 concerning Mr. Prince's alleged drug activities that 21 turned out to be unsubstantiated? For example, that 22 he was selling cocaine or dealing heavy narcotics or 23 anything like that?

24 A. That was brought up, and I never found 25 anything to be done like that. But I only met Prince 8 1 on two separate occasions, and that was enough.

2 Q. What types of things did Raftery tell you 3 about Mr. Prince?

4 A. That he was more into the drug trade and 5 about the selling and using of cocaine and marijuana.

6 Q. And did he lead you to believe that this 7 investigation would somehow result in an arrest of 8 dealing in drugs or; in particular, hard drugs like 9 cocaine?

10 A. Yes. I thought it was going to go further.

11 Q. Okay. Were you, at any time, told that this 12 case had nothing more to do with than relatively small 13 marijuana plants growing in a house?

14 A. No. I figured that one out myself when I got 15 there.

16 Q. That's at the end?

17 A. Right.

18 Q. Did you ever express a reluctance towards Mr.

19 Gaston about continuing an investigation that did not 20 look like it was heading the way, initially, you were 21 told it was going to head?

22 A. I wasn't going to stay on the investigation 23 much longer. When I saw the marijuana plants, then I 24 had a cultivation charge, and I figured that was 25 probably going to be all -- all that I'm going to get 9 1 anyway.

2 Q. Were you -- 3 A. But Gaston was not -- he was not real 4 thrilled about continuing an investigation either.

5 Q. Tell me about, now, you're dealings with 6 Gaston. Approximately, when did you meet him and what 7 did he inform you?

8 A. Now, I probably talked to him before this 9 date on the telephone, but I have documented on 4/7 10 that I met with the informant, Gaston, and discussed 11 Jesse Prince. He stated that he met with Jesse, 12 became his friend and that he was seen dealing in 13 cannabis and snorting cocaine.

14 Q. This is what Mr. Gaston told you?

15 A. Right.

16 Q. Did you ever substantiate that that was true?

17 A. No, he never dealt or did cocaine in front of 18 me.

19 Q. Did you ever discuss anything in an 20 undercover capacity with Mr. Prince that led you to 21 believe that he snorted cocaine?

22 A. No.

23 Q. How about sold marijuana?

24 A. If he had marijuana, he probably would have 25 sold it to me. But when asked, he only had, I think, 10 1 a joint or two in his house. But that's as far as 2 that went.

3 Q. Did you ever discuss with Mr. Gaston his 4 involvement with Scientology?

5 A. Yeah.

6 Q. What did he tell you?

7 A. He said he does not want to have anything to 8 do with them, but he's being paid by Raftery to do 9 this.

10 Q. Did he know from the very beginning that 11 Scientology had hired him as a private investigator to 12 make this case against Prince?

13 A. I can't say. Probably. Probably. I don't 14 know about Scientology but -- I mean, maybe not from 15 the very beginning, because Raftery probably hired 16 him.

17 Q. But was there a time in your investigation 18 where Gaston knew -- 19 A. Oh, yes.

20 Q. -- who his boss was, and that is Scientology?

21 A. Right, yes.

22 Q. And then did he become somewhat disenchanted 23 with that? Did he say that he wished he didn't get 24 involved in this?

25 A. Yes. He expressed that several times, even 11 1 lately.

2 Q. And he also expressed it to you back then?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Why did this investigation continue, then?

5 A. Once I met with the CI and I got in the 6 house, he smoked the pot in front of me and he showed 7 me the plant on the back porch, I couldn't just stop.

8 And I went ahead and just went with the cultivation 9 charge.

10 Q. Okay.

11 A. I think there probably would have been more 12 problems if I did stop it.

13 Q. Okay. Was there ever any discussion between 14 you and Gaston about Gaston trying to get Mr. Prince 15 to sell marijuana within a thousand feet of a church 16 or school or anything like that? Does that sound 17 familiar?

18 A. No, no. A thousand feet within a school was, 19 I think, from somebody else. Because after the 20 charges were made, I was called and, you know, it was 21 suggested that these charges be brought up too.

22 Q. I don't understand?

23 A. Once Prince was arrested, that was the first 24 time I heard about this "within a thousand feet of a 25 school." I was called by, I believe it was, Raftery 12 1 who said that -- I don't know if it was coming from 2 his bosses or from him -- you know, why don't I look 3 into the other charge of within a thousand feet of a 4 school. That's the first time I heard about that.

5 Q. Okay. Do you know that that even happened?

6 A. No. I told him no. I'll do my own 7 investigation.

8 Q. It certainly did not happen during any 9 investigation you were conducting?

10 A. No. He was charged with the one count.

11 MRS. WARDELL: Wait. I'm confused. Is his 12 house within a thousand feet of a school or something?

13 Is that whey they were -- 14 THE DEPONENT: Yes. It was a Montessori 15 school. And I said, "A marijuana plant on the back 16 porch, I'm not going to go there."

17 MRS. WARDELL: So they were talking about 18 more charges with regards -- 19 THE DEPONENT: They wanted more charges.

20 MRS. WARDELL: -- to the actual marijuana 21 that was made?

22 THE DEPONENT: This is after the arrest that 23 that was brought up. I never heard of that before.

24 MRS. WARDELL: It wasn't some other date, 25 some other time? It was this stuff?

13 1 THE DEPONENT: Right.

2 BY MR. de VLAMING:

3 Q. Okay. But Raftery wanted more charges 4 brought against Mr. Prince once he was arrested?

5 A. That was the thousand feet within the school, 6 yes.

7 Q. And you told him you'll conduct your own 8 investigation?

9 A. Yeah. That and child abuse charges.

10 Q. And did Raftery bring that up, too?

11 A. Oh, yeah.

12 Q. Did he tell you that The Church of 13 Scientology wanted as many charges brought as 14 possible?

15 A. No, he didn't say that.

16 Q. Is that what he intimated with you -- 17 A. No.

18 Q. -- that he wanted more charges brought?

19 A. That he want -- he suggested it. But he 20 didn't come out and say, "Scientology wanted that."

21 Q. But he suggested there were more charges 22 there and that you could bring them and load up on 23 them?

24 A. Right.

25 Q. All right. Did you ever ask Raftery why The 14 1 Church of Scientology wanted to conduct this 2 investigation and get Mr. Prince?

3 A. No. I might have but, probably, once he 4 started talking, I probably just turned it off. I 5 mean, once he told me who he was working for and 6 everything, I told him my views and, you know, I 7 really didn't want to hear any more about it.

8 Q. I want you to estimate only the number of 9 times Raftery called you concerning this case.

10 A. I probably spoke to him more than 15, spoke 11 to him. I mean, that's including in person.

12 Q. Approximately, how many times after the 13 arrest would he make calls to you?

14 A. A couple of times after -- after the arrest, 15 a couple of times. And then once I said, this is it, 16 you know, there's not going to be anything else and 17 I'm done, then it was over with.

18 Q. Did he ever call you to find out if formal 19 charges had been filed or when they were going to be 20 filed? Was he interested in that?

21 A. Oh, yeah. Probably. That sounds like 22 something he would call in about.

23 Q. Did you know him before this?

24 A. No.

25 Q. Do you know what he does for a living?

15 1 A. Yeah. He works for the Scientologists.

2 Q. Okay. But, I mean, is he a PI?

3 A. Yeah, I believe so. Before that, I think he 4 was in government work, he told me.

5 Q. All right. Let's go ahead and talk about how 6 the investigation started, then. Was an introduction 7 made by you?

8 Well, before we go into that, what did Gaston 9 tell you before you came into the investigation? What 10 had he done so far with Mr. Prince?

11 A. That he had met with him, then became friends 12 with him. Jesse is a friendly person and he became 13 friends with him. I don't recall where they met, but 14 he was probably -- I think it was out at a lounge or 15 something. And that's when he told me about observing 16 the smoking and selling of narcotics, and that he was 17 invited over to Jesse's house, I believe, for a party.

18 And he said, "Well, can I bring one of my friends from 19 up north?"

20 Q. Which would have been you?

21 A. Yes. And he agreed to come on over.

22 Q. Did Mr. Gaston tell you that he had smoked 23 marijuana with Mr. Prince before law enforcement 24 became involved?

25 A. That he had smoked it?

16 1 Q. Yes.

2 A. No. No, he didn't tell me that he smoked 3 marijuana.

4 Q. Would he -- 5 A. That Gaston smoked marijuana or Prince?

6 Q. Gaston, with Prince, smoked marijuana before 7 you came into the picture?

8 A. He had told me that he had seen Prince smoke 9 marijuana.

10 Q. Okay. But did he indicate that he smoked it 11 as well?

12 A. No.

13 Q. Would he be allowed to do that at that point 14 in time?

15 A. Smoke marijuana?

16 Q. Right.

17 A. No.

18 Q. That would lawful for him to do it, at that 19 point in time, before you came into the picture?

20 A. Right.

21 Q. So the only thing about drugs is that Gaston 22 told you that he had seen Prince smoke marijuana; is 23 that correct?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. And then he said to Prince, "I got a friend.

17 1 Can I bring him over?" Prince says, "Yes." And then 2 you go over to the home?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. And do you remember the date of that? How 5 many times had you been to the home?

6 A. None.

7 Q. Okay. How many times had you been to the 8 home in an undercover capacity?

9 A. Once or twice. Twice.

10 Q. Okay. First time you went, was what date?

11 A. At 3:15 on 4/7/2000.

12 Q. And what happened when you arrived?

13 A. I went there. A black female answered the 14 door who was identified as Deneen Phillips, and she 15 invited us inside. I was introduced.

16 Q. What was your name?

17 A. I believe it was Mitch.

18 Q. Okay.

19 A. I believe it was Mitch.

20 Q. Mitch from up north or were you -- 21 A. Mitch from up north.

22 Q. All right. And where did you go inside the 23 house?

24 A. It was like a -- I call it a computer room.

25 There's a computer in it. A small room, couches and 18 1 chair -- I mean, a couch and a chair, table and a 2 computer. He was playing on the computer, working on 3 it or something.

4 Q. And you and Mr. Gaston went into that room?

5 A. Yeah. We were introduced and sat there and 6 just made small talk for a while.

7 Q. Did you talk at all about Mr. Prince's work 8 as it related to the Lisa McPherson Trust and what he 9 was pulling up on the computer and so forth?

10 A. I believe that was talked about, about the 11 Scientologists and McPherson. And I didn't, you know, 12 go into any depth of that conversation but that was 13 part of it, now that you said that.

14 Q. Was he showing you on the computer a little 15 bit about how he was bringing up web sites to look 16 into The Church of Scientology?

17 A. No. I don't remember that. He might have 18 been. I don't remember being shown anything on the 19 computer.

20 Q. Where did he say his job was?

21 A. You know, I don't think he ever told me what 22 his job was.

23 Q. Well, did he say he worked for the Lisa 24 McPherson Trust?

25 A. I can't recall.

19 1 Q. Okay. What did you understand his work to 2 be?

3 A. Like a -- you know, I'm not sure what his job 4 was.

5 Q. Was he like a watch dog for The Church of 6 Scientology and exposing things about its practices 7 and so forth? Did he ever mention that?

8 A. Yes. And so did Gaston.

9 Q. And what do you mean "so did Gaston"? Gaston 10 mentioned that that's what Prince did or -- 11 A. Right.

12 Q. Oh, okay. What happened inside the computer 13 room?

14 A. After we were introduced, Jesse went and got 15 some beers for us to drink and then he asked if we 16 wanted some smoke and they pulled out some -- a little 17 bit of marijuana and made a cigarette and passed it 18 around to us.

19 Q. Now, who is "they"?

20 A. Deneen -- in the room, once it was closed off 21 because he had kids in the house, there was Deneen, 22 myself, Jesse and Barry.

23 Q. And who rolled the cigarette?

24 A. Deneen.

25 Q. And did she light it?

20 1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And then it was passed around?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. And who smoked it?

5 A. Jesse and Deneen.

6 Q. Anybody else?

7 A. No.

8 Q. Did you smoke it?

9 A. I simulated.

10 Q. Okay. How about Gaston?

11 A. No. I didn't see him.

12 Q. Did he touch it at all?

13 A. Well, he touched it, put it up to his mouth, 14 but I didn't see any -- him inhaling it like you 15 normally would do.

16 Q. Would he be allowed to do that?

17 A. No. I don't allow my informants to do that 18 kind of stuff.

19 Q. Was that discussed before you went in there?

20 Did you tell Gaston, "Listen, you can't smoke this 21 stuff"?

22 A. Well, we had discussed the whole thing and he 23 knew. He was a police officer prior to becoming a 24 private investigator, so he knew the ground rules of 25 not doing the narcotics. I mean, we don't know what's 21 1 in the cigarette. It could have been laced with 2 anything, so suck on those things.

3 Q. How do you simulate it?

4 A. I need to go into that?

5 Q. Well, I mean, does it look like you are 6 smoking?

7 A. Yeah, absolutely.

8 Q. And then it looks like you're exhaling the 9 smoke?

10 A. No, because, usually, it's passed off pretty 11 quick. People don't pay that close attention to you.

12 Q. Okay. Well, did you see, at any time, Gaston 13 appear to be either smoking or simulating?

14 A. Yes. He had put it up to his mouth and 15 appeared to be simulating, yes.

16 Q. And how many cigarettes were smoked?

17 A. One. There were four people there.

18 Q. But, I mean, there wasn't a second one made?

19 A. No.

20 Q. Was there any alcohol consumed?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. What type of alcohol?

23 A. Beer.

24 Q. Do you know how much?

25 A. I probably took a couple of sips of the beer 22 1 bottle.

2 Q. But, I mean, it wasn't -- 3 A. That was it.

4 Q. You didn't drink two or three or four cans, 5 or anything like that -- 6 A. No, unh-unh.

7 Q. -- or bottles?

8 A. No.

9 Q. Do you know how much of -- was there only one 10 beer per person, to your knowledge?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Did you bring any alcohol or any food on 13 that particular occasion?

14 A. I don't think it was that occasion. I think 15 it was the next one.

16 Q. So you didn't bring anything on the first 17 occasion?

18 A. I don't believe so. I believe it was the 19 second time we brought a bottle of wine, maybe some 20 nuts, macadamia nuts.

21 Q. And some rum?

22 A. Was it rum? I don't know what the bottle 23 was. It was either rum or wine. I didn't drink it.

24 Q. Were there any discussions concerning -- this 25 is back to the first time now -- marijuana or drugs or 23 1 dealing or anything like that on the first occasion?

2 A. No, unh-unh.

3 Q. Okay. It was just smoking?

4 A. Just becoming friends. Let him see my face.

5 Q. And did you see any plants on that first 6 occasion?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Tell me how you saw them, and where were 9 they.

10 A. Back porch. The screened-in encloser of the 11 pool, near back there. We went for more like a tour 12 of the house, and we went back there.

13 Q. And was there anything said by Mr. Prince 14 concerning those marijuana plants?

15 A. He pointed out a small marijuana plant to me 16 that was in a different planter. There were a couple 17 of planters with marijuana plants in them. Both of 18 the kids were swimming in the pool at the time. I was 19 introduced to them. I asked Deneen how they keep the 20 plants so healthy, and she said that her and Jesse 21 just take care of them, and there's not much to do, 22 they grow mostly on their own. Then we went into 23 talking about Deneen saying that she bi-packs 24 narcotics and she has in the past. And she went about 25 showing me how she does it.

24 1 Q. I read that in the report. Was there any 2 further discussion concerning the marijuana plants 3 that you had?

4 A. No.

5 Q. Was it the first or second visit where Jesse 6 made a statement that he had pulled some out and threw 7 them out?

8 A. Second.

9 Q. Second visit. Okay. So there was no further 10 discussions concerning the marijuana plants, the first 11 time, other than they were growing in the lanai aspect 12 part of the pool?

13 A. Correct.

14 Q. Was there anything about how they were 15 tendered to, anything like that discussed; whether 16 they were fertilized, whether they were replanted?

17 A. They said mostly they grow by themselves, 18 just keep them watered and sunlight. I mean, the kids 19 were there in the pool so we didn't -- you know, I 20 didn't go into any great detail about them. It wasn't 21 like they were talking loud enough for the kids to 22 hear. They were just pointing at them and just 23 talking to me, so we left the pool area.

24 Q. Were there other plants in the lanai area 25 other than marijuana plants?

25 1 A. Oh, yeah.

2 Q. Other household-type, potted plants?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. And where these marijuana plants among those 5 plants or were they separate?

6 A. They were in their own pots.

7 Q. Right. But, I mean, were they among some of 8 the other pots there?

9 A. Oh, yeah. Yes. I mean, there were potted 10 plants everywhere. She had plants everywhere on that 11 pool deck.

12 Q. Did they look like they were getting ready to 13 be replanted in the yard or did they look like pots 14 that were there, you know, growing on the pool deck?

15 Do you understand my question?

16 A. No, but I'll answer it anyway. They were 17 just on the potted plant -- I mean, in pots on the 18 pool deck. They could have been replanted, I guess, 19 once they get bigger and grow out of the pot.

20 Q. How long would you say you were there the 21 first time?

22 A. I arrived at 3:15, and we left at 4:58.

23 Q. An hour-and-a-half then, roughly?

24 A. Yes, sir.

25 Q. And when you left, did you exchange 26 1 pleasantries and say hope to see you again or what 2 have you?

3 A. Yeah. He even walked us to the car.

4 Q. Was Jesse friendly during that trip?

5 A. Very.

6 Q. What was Raftery doing and saying during that 7 first visit with Mr. Prince? Was he trying to get Mr.

8 Prince to say anything or make admissions or admit to 9 dealing in drugs? Was he doing anything like that?

10 A. Raftery?

11 Q. I'm sorry. Gaston.

12 A. The first trip I had told him, let's just 13 introduce and see how far that goes; especially, me 14 being white and being a friend. Because Barry is 15 black. And I said, "Let's just see how it goes 16 because we're going inside someone's home." I just 17 wanted to make sure that goes okay. So there was some 18 talk, but it didn't go into any detail like, you know, 19 trying to make a ground-breaking case there.

20 Q. When you left the first time, where did you 21 think this investigation was going to go based upon 22 talking with Jesse, seeing his home, his family and so 23 forth?

24 A. Right there. Cultivation.

25 Q. In other words, you saw the plant and figured 27 1 that that's probably the most that Largo P.D. was 2 going to get out of this case?

3 A. Yeah. I mean, maybe some other plant 4 material or, you know, some pot in a bag, but nothing 5 else.

6 Q. How much time went by before the second 7 meeting?

8 A. Wow. I went back on 8/6/2000.

9 Q. Why did it take so long?

10 A. I just had other things to do.

11 Q. Did this become a little lower priority based 12 upon that first meeting?

13 A. Oh, yes, yes.

14 Q. Based upon the first meeting, did you think 15 that you had somebody that was a dealer in hard drugs?

16 Was there anything that led you to believe that he was 17 a dealer of cocaine?

18 A. Not that I saw. You know, they -- from what 19 I understand, Raftery had him on surveillance, this 20 whole time, almost 24 hours a day.

21 Q. Okay.

22 A. From what I saw, no.

23 Q. Did Raftery ever give you any type of 24 surveillance tapes or anything like that?

25 A. No. I don't think they made tapes.

28 1 Q. But you were led to believe that something 2 bigger was going to come of this case when you first 3 got involved?

4 A. When I first got involved, yes.

5 Q. Who generated the second meeting; you, 6 Raftery or Gaston?

7 A. It was probably Gaston. Well, I told -- I'm 8 available, let's -- because I wanted to get this whole 9 thing over with, so it was probably Gaston.

10 Q. Did Gaston -- 11 A. I don't think Raftery ever made -- no, 12 Raftery never made contact. I mean, from what it 13 sounds, Gaston does not live around here, but you know 14 that. So he just came into town to do this and then 15 go back home.

16 Q. Did either Raftery or Gaston ever tell you 17 that if you were to get a warrant and search Jesse 18 Prince's house, you would probably find some hard 19 drugs or some more evidence?

20 A. No. I don't remember him saying that, 21 because I would have told him that my warrant is going 22 to be for the back porch.

23 Q. While we're on that subject, was there any 24 part of the house that was searched? I thought the 25 house was searched.

29 1 A. It might have been, like, a cursory search.

2 I didn't go in the house for the search.

3 Q. Were you there?

4 A. I was still undercover.

5 Q. Oh, okay.

6 A. So I wasn't -- I didn't go inside there.

7 Q. You didn't go to the house at this time, for 8 the search warrant?

9 A. I drove the jump-out van to the house, but I 10 stayed in the van. I had nothing to do with the 11 search warrant.

12 Q. You weren't seen?

13 A. Right.

14 Q. Let's go back to the second visit now.

15 Gaston's back in town and he says, "Let's go back."

16 And what was the game plan on the second visit?

17 A. Just to re-contact him and see if we could 18 get anything else, make sure that the plants were 19 still there. Just, you know, another visit.

20 Q. So you go to the house. Tell me what 21 happened on that visit.

22 A. I believe one of his children met us at the 23 door. Yeah. A child -- one of the children answered 24 the door, and Jesse walked up to us and invited us 25 inside. We went into the living room, sat on the 30 1 couch. I observed Deneen watering her plants in the 2 pool area. I asked Jesse if I could go out and talk 3 to her and say hi to her. He said go ahead and that 4 he would meet us out there. We both went out there.

5 A few moments later, Jesse came out and he came back 6 by the pool and talked to me.

7 Q. Was there any discussion about the marijuana 8 plants at that time?

9 A. No. I didn't -- No, I never brought it up, 10 about marijuana plants. I didn't want to get him 11 rowelled at all or get him suspicious about me.

12 Q. Did you see any marijuana plants in the lanai 13 at that time?

14 A. One pot.

15 Q. Just one on the second visit?

16 A. One pot.

17 Q. Oh, okay.

18 A. I mean, it was -- I didn't get real close to 19 it. He had talked to me and pointed it out, and I had 20 gotten close enough to it where I could see it, but 21 the other ones were not there. And the one that was, 22 probably a couple of feet high, was really bushy. It 23 looked like several plants coming out, and that was 24 all I saw.

25 Q. You saw only one plant?

31 1 A. One pot.

2 Q. One pot. How many pots were in that plant -- 3 or how many plants were in that pot?

4 A. It looked like, to me, several of them. Now, 5 because it was bushy, you know -- it was a pretty good 6 size, about a foot high. I didn't get close enough to 7 where you could separate them and see how many were 8 actually coming out, but it looked like several of 9 them. There were no other pots of plants.

10 Q. But not marijuana?

11 A. Right.

12 Q. Okay.

13 A. That was the only one. As opposed to when I 14 was previously there, there were other ones.

15 Q. I think I understand now.

16 A. He's down to one pot now.

17 Q. And before -- the first time you were there, 18 there were how many?

19 A. Several of them.

20 Q. Three, four, five?

21 A. Three, yeah. I think, three or four.

22 Q. Okay.

23 A. There were different ones.

24 Q. In separate pots?

25 A. Right.

32 1 Q. Now, was it on the second occasion where 2 there was some comment made about discarding marijuana 3 or throwing out plants?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. And who made that and where were you when it 6 was made?

7 A. He told me to come on over to him. I walked 8 over. It was in the southwest area of the screened-in 9 encloser, and he showed me the pot plant. I told him 10 that they looked healthy. He stated that he just 11 pulled, approximately, 15 plants out of several -- out 12 several months ago. And that these, and he's showing 13 me, began to grow again.

14 Q. Did he know how they -- did he indicate how 15 they were growing, who had planted them or that he had 16 planted them? Did he know how they got there?

17 A. He told me that he was just going to let them 18 grow. In fact, he told me that he was just going to 19 let them grow and they needed more sun. He was going 20 to put them out into the sun, to get more sun from 21 that screened-in encloser. He says that it doesn't 22 take much to grow the plants as long as you just keep 23 them in the sun. He didn't say that they just 24 magically appeared. He knew the plant was there.

25 Q. Right.

33 1 A. You know what saying?

2 Q. Yeah. But did he know how the plant got 3 there? Did he say that he had planted the seeds or 4 that he had -- 5 A. No. He just told me that he had other ones 6 that he had pulled.

7 Q. And these grew up -- 8 A. Right.

9 Q. These grew in their place after he pulled the 10 other ones out?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Did he say what he did with the other ones?

13 Did he throw them out?

14 A. No. I didn't -- I didn't want to get into 15 that with him.

16 Q. Okay. You're familiar with marijuana?

17 A. Oh, yeah.

18 Q. What do you have to do to a marijuana plant 19 that is growing with a root system in order to smoke 20 it? In other words, can you pluck it and smoke it?

21 A. Dry it out, then you can.

22 Q. How long does it -- 23 A. I mean, you just can't pull it off of the 24 plant and light it up.

25 Q. Why not?

34 1 A. Because you have to dry it out. You have to 2 dry the leaves out.

3 Q. Well, why, if it's green? How long does it 4 take to dry out?

5 A. I don't know. I mean, I've never physically 6 done that.

7 Q. Is there a certain age or size of a plant 8 that needs to be adult before it can be, you know, 9 smoked for it's cannabis quality?

10 A. I don't know what certain -- if there is a 11 certain age for it.

12 Q. You don't know?

13 A. No, sir.

14 Q. Did you ever see any dried marijuana plants 15 or plants that had been laid out -- 16 A. No, I didn't.

17 Q. -- to be cured?

18 A. I didn't see any dry ones.

19 Q. Okay. Did you ever see any marijuana plants 20 inside the residence? By "inside the residence," not 21 the lanai now, inside the house itself.

22 A. No, no.

23 Q. Where was Gaston when this conversation took 24 place concerning the marijuana plants being pulled 25 out?

35 1 A. He was there.

2 Q. But he was standing near you?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. And what else did you do on that occasion?

5 Did you ask to buy any marijuana on that occasion?

6 A. We had asked if he had any for our trip. And 7 he said, no, that he did not have any. That he 8 probably -- in fact, he said that he doesn't have any 9 in -- no. He said he didn't have any at all.

10 Q. You had indicated that you were going to the 11 Keys or something like that, on a trip?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. So when you left that time, was there ever 14 any indication that there were any hard drugs being 15 used or sold -- 16 A. No.

17 Q. -- by Mr. Prince?

18 A. None.

19 Q. So when you left on that occasion, did you 20 make a decision that that's the most time you're going 21 to put into this case, other than to ultimately get 22 the marijuana plant that you saw in there?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. All right. Have you ever gone to somebody's 25 house where marijuana was growing in their backyard 36 1 and it was not planted there? In other words, kind of 2 growing wild?

3 MRS. WARDELL: How would he know? How would 4 the witness know if that was -- 5 BY MR. de VLAMING:

6 Q. Well, you know, like an older couple called 7 and said, I think there's something growing in our 8 backyard or something. And you go check it out and 9 you see it and pull it. It's lewin in -- 10 A. No, I've never been there.

11 Q. Okay.

12 A. Of all the houses we've been to, they say, it 13 must have just popped up. But no, no older couple 14 telling us that marijuana plants are popping.

15 Q. Singular plants?

16 A. No.

17 Q. Okay. When you left the house that day, 18 then, was it your intention then to get the warrant 19 and to come back and make the arrest?

20 A. Yes, sir.

21 Q. And it was your understanding that when you 22 came back, unless you found anything else pursuant to 23 your search warrant, that you were there to get that 24 marijuana plant that was in the singular pot?

25 A. Right.

37 1 Q. In other words, whatever marijuana was in 2 that pot?

3 A. Right.

4 Q. Whatever number of stalks was in that pot?

5 A. Uh-huh.

6 Q. That's right. You weren't there when -- did 7 you ultimately see the plant?

8 A. No. Bruno, Officer Bruno, was the one that 9 processed all of that.

10 Q. He took it into custody? In other words, 11 took it from a residence?

12 A. Yeah. I believe he -- and he's the one that 13 submitted it all.

14 Q. Have you, on other occasions, gotten search 15 warrants to search houses for singular plants?

16 A. No.

17 Q. Did you ever take a statement from Jesse 18 after his arrest or did you not see him again?

19 A. No. I didn't see him.

20 Q. Okay. What was your relationship, then, with 21 Gaston after the arrest was made? Was it, see ya, 22 have a nice life, you'll remain a CI as far as you 23 were concerned, or did you tell him that there might 24 be a time that he would have to come back and talk 25 about his involvement?

38 1 A. I didn't think he would have to come back.

2 He called me when he was upset when you sent your 3 people out to get him at the restaurant, and he 4 thought -- and I don't know why he would even be 5 included in this investigation. I didn't even think 6 it was going to go this far. But even if it was to go 7 to trial, I told him, I said, "I doubt very seriously 8 that you would even be involved in this." He says, 9 "Fine." Because he doesn't want to be involved. To 10 me, I saw the plants and that's what I thought was -- 11 would be good enough for the state.

12 Q. Did Gaston ever ask you about the status of 13 the investigation after the arrest -- 14 A. No.

15 Q. -- or was it just Raftery?

16 A. Yeah. He just -- the only time he talked to 17 me after that was when Jesse Prince approached him.

18 Q. With the PIs, my PIs?

19 A. Yeah.

20 Q. Have you talked to Mr. Gaston of late?

21 A. Yeah, yesterday.

22 Q. What was that about?

23 A. He had called and basically said, "I can't 24 believe it's still going through all of this, 25 especially it just being a misdemeanor charge."

39 1 Q. Did he indicate that he was going to be here 2 today?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Okay. Good. Was there anymore background 5 information given to you by either Gaston or Raftery?

6 A. Gaston never really gave me any background, 7 no. Gaston was just a private investigator in 8 wherever he lives and he was called in because, like 9 you said, he's black and he can become friends with 10 Jesse, you know. I mean, Raftery has probably a bunch 11 of white guys looking for him. So that's why he was 12 called in. He says, "I'm just here to become his 13 friend and introduce you." He tried to stay out as 14 much as possible. Raftery was the one that called and 15 checked on the status and all of that.

16 Q. Well, how did Gaston, when he first became 17 involved in this investigation, before he went to 18 Jesse's house, how did he know that this was going to 19 bear fruit? In other words, that he was going to find 20 drugs and, ultimately, introduce you?

21 A. I don't know. He probably didn't, you know.

22 But they were paying him to come down here and 23 investigate.

24 Q. And part of that investigation was to meet 25 him and kind of work his way into a friendship and 40 1 then ultimately get invited back to his home?

2 A. Well, yeah. I don't know about the home 3 part, but become his friend and see where it can go 4 from there.

5 Q. Was he also chosen because of him being 6 outside of the geographical area as well as his race?

7 A. I don't know about that.

8 Q. It was primarily, you think, because of his 9 race, then?

10 A. Right. I wouldn't know -- I wouldn't even go 11 that far.

12 Q. Do you know what Gaston's schtick was? In 13 other words, who was he to Prince in front of you? I 14 know he was Trinidad. But I mean, what was he?

15 A. I don't know what his story was. He told me 16 but, you know, the only thing I was saying was about 17 what my story was and that we were from up north. I 18 was his friend from up north coming down here.

19 Q. I'm just about through.

20 Did Raftery tell you anything more, 21 backgroundwise, about Jesse Prince?

22 A. He probably did, but I didn't really write 23 anything down or take it to heart. From day one, I -- 24 when they told me who these people were that were 25 involved and what's going on, I just wanted to get rid 41 1 of this case as quick as possible. You know, a 2 California detective called me about Jesse Prince 3 being arrested.

4 Q. Why would somebody from California call?

5 A. He got me. He got the arrest affidavit and 6 everything on his desk Monday morning.

7 Q. Of this case?

8 A. Uh-huh. And he called me up and said that he 9 just found out about Jesse Prince and the case. I 10 said, "How do you know?" I believe a warrant was 11 served on Friday night -- Friday or Saturday. I don't 12 know what the day was. It was 8/11. Whatever 8/11 13 is, but it was over the weekend. And when he came to 14 work that morning, he got a whole pamphlet all on 15 Jesse.

16 Q. About the arrest?

17 A. Yeah.

18 Q. Why did he call you?

19 A. Basically, to wish me luck and to -- that 20 he's been dealing with Scientologists for a long time, 21 and that it was just going to be a pain in the rear 22 with these people.

23 MRS. WARDELL: I'm sorry. Detective of law 24 enforcement or a private investigator called?

25 THE DEPONENT: No. Detective of law 42 1 enforcement.

2 MRS. WARDELL: And is this back in time or is 3 this just something recent?

4 THE DEPONENT: This was the Monday after the 5 search warrant.

6 MRS. WARDELL: Way back then?

7 MR. de VLAMING: After the arrest.

8 THE DEPONENT: Right.

9 MRS. WARDELL: Okay.

10 BY MR. de VLAMING:

11 Q. Do you know how he got the arrest information 12 so fast?

13 A. No. Booking advisory copies he had?

14 Q. So something faxed to him from -- 15 A. Probably. Well, it was in a packet on his 16 desk. I mean, it might have come through, but 17 somebody put it in a packet for him.

18 Q. Right.

19 A. But he got everything.

20 Q. Did he share any -- other than to wish you 21 luck, did he share any information about Mr. Prince or 22 about The Church of Scientology, either one?

23 A. He knew Mr. Prince in testifying -- in 24 talking against the Scientologists. So I don't know 25 if there's a case going on up there or not.

43 1 Q. But basically, it was a good luck/warning 2 about getting involved in all of this?

3 A. Exactly.

4 Q. Okay.

5 MR. de VLAMING: Do you want to ask him 6 questions?

7 MRS. WARDELL: Yes.

8 CROSS-EXAMINATION 9 BY MRS. WARDELL:

10 Q. Did you get the impression that there was 11 some ongoing case in California that Mr. Prince was 12 either a witness or a party to -- 13 A. I think -- 14 Q. -- that concerned this investigator?

15 A. He had told me that there was a case of 16 somebody being killed out there and, maybe, Prince 17 knew about it or -- being electrocuted or something.

18 He probably talked to him about that. He didn't go 19 into any great detail, but there was some type of 20 death case that he had been working on and he was the 21 Scientology detective out there, basically.

22 Q. Against Scientology or for Scientology?

23 A. No, against.

24 Q. Against Scientology?

25 A. Right.

44 1 Q. So did you get the impression that since he 2 was against Scientology, that somebody wanted him to 3 know, hey, look, even the Scientologists are now 4 getting Jesse arrested or -- 5 A. Right, exactly.

6 Q. In other words, look what lengths they'll go 7 to -- 8 A. Exactly.

9 Q. -- now to have Jesse arrested?

10 So you got the impression that it was a 11 pro-Jesse supporter that sent the information up 12 there?

13 A. Well, yeah. I mean, he was in law 14 enforcement. I don't think he really, honestly, cared 15 about anybody. But he was just saying, you know, that 16 Jesse was -- he knows that Jesse was against 17 Scientology. Because I asked him, "How did you get 18 all of my paperwork so quick? I can't even get it 19 that quick." And he said, "The Scientologists come by 20 all of the time and give him stuff and call him, check 21 his trash and everything." And so he warned me.

22 Q. Did you get an indication that a 23 pro-Scientology person forwarded the information or a 24 pro-Jesse Prince person forwarded the information?

25 A. Pro-Jesse Prince.

45 1 Q. A Jesse Prince person forwarded the 2 information?

3 A. No. I'm sorry. Pro-Scientologist.

4 Q. Forwarded the information?

5 A. Right.

6 Q. And you were asked about how many other times 7 you've gotten a warrant for a single marijuana plant.

8 At the time you applied for the warrant, you believed 9 or you had personal knowledge that this wasn't a 10 single-marijuana-plant case, there were multiple 11 plants out there?

12 A. Right. When I looked at it, it looked like 13 there were several plants in there. Now, when Bruno 14 and them pulled it out, it may have come from one 15 stalk.

16 Q. I'm talking about on August 6th, when you 17 were at the home, there was more than one plant that 18 you saw? I think you said four to five plants, 19 correct?

20 A. My first visit there, yes.

21 Q. So when you got the warrant, it was more than 22 one plant; it just happened to be one at the time the 23 warrant was executed? Am I confusing you?

24 A. Yeah. When I -- my first visit there, there 25 were several pots of plants.

46 1 Q. Right.

2 A. The second time, there was the one pot with, 3 what looked like to me, several plants coming out of a 4 pot.

5 Q. Okay.

6 A. The other plants were gone. So I felt that I 7 was going for three, four, five plants in one pot 8 warrant.

9 Q. Right.

10 A. That's when I said, I didn't do that before.

11 I have not done that.

12 Q. So some time between 6:00 and 11:00 some were 13 pulled up?

14 A. Right.

15 MRS. WARDELL: Do you have those pictures, 16 Denis?

17 MR. de VLAMING: Yes.

18 BY MRS. WARDELL:

19 Q. Can you -- I know it's been a while.

20 MR. de VLAMING: Do you want this on the 21 record -- until you're ready to show -- or not?

22 BY MRS. WARDELL:

23 Q. Well, the question was going to be: Can you 24 look at these pictures of inside the lanai and tell me 25 whether any of these pots were the ones that you 47 1 recognize as being there when you were at the home?

2 These pictures, for the record, were taken by the 3 defense on August 14th, 2000, which would have been 4 three or four days after the warrant, many days after 5 you were in there the first time.

6 Does any of this look familiar or does it 7 look like things have been moved around?

8 A. I mean, that looks like, probably, his 9 backyard.

10 Q. The lanai ones?

11 A. You're talking about the pool area, right?

12 Q. Yeah.

13 A. Yeah. I mean, it was full of plants, the 14 pool area.

15 Q. Are you able to say today that any of these 16 pots were there when you were there?

17 A. No, no.

18 Q. Okay.

19 THE DEPONENT: You took these photos?

20 MR. de VLAMING: My PI did.

21 MRS. WARDELL: All right. Did you have 22 anything else?

23 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 24 BY MR. de VLAMING:

25 Q. Do you know who planted the marijuana?

48 1 A. Planted?

2 Q. Yeah. You know, put the seeds or -- 3 A. No.

4 Q. And do you know the name of the person who 5 called you from California?

6 A. No. I can try to find it.

7 Q. I'd be interested.

8 A. I believe it was the Sheriff's Department of 9 San Diego or something like that.

10 Q. Do you think you might be able to find it, 11 though, if you had to?

12 A. Yeah. When I go to work today, I'll root 13 through.

14 MR. de VLAMING: Thank you. Anything else?

15 MRS. WARDELL: Unh-unh.

16 MR. de VLAMING: Read?

17 THE DEPONENT: Yeah.

18 (At this time the deposition in the 19 above-captioned matter was concluded at 20 12:45 p.m.)

21 22 23 24 25 49 1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 2 STATE OF FLORIDA ) 3 COUNTY OF PINELLAS ) 4 I, CRISSY CLADAKIS, Court Reporter, certify 5 that I was authorized to and did stenographically 6 report the foregoing deposition; and that the 7 transcript is a true record of the testimony given by 8 the witness.

9 I further certify that I am not a relative, 10 employee, attorney, or counsel of any of the parties, 11 nor am I a relative or employee of any of the parties' 12 attorney or counsel connected with the action, nor am 13 I financially interested in the action.

14 I, the undersigned authority, certify that 15 HOWARD CROSBY personally appeared before me and was 16 duly sworn.

17 WITNESS my hand and official seal this 17th 18 day of May, 2001.

19 20 21 Crissy Cladakis 22 Notary Public - State of Florida 23 My Commission No. CC 736558 24 Expires: April 23, 2002 25 ERRATA SHEET READING AND SIGNING OF DEPOSITION TO BE ATTACHED TO THE DEPOSITION OF HOWARD CROSBY TAKEN ON MAY 15, 2001, IN THE MATTER OF STATE OF FLORIDA VS. JESSE PRINCE BY CRISSY CLADAKIS TO THE DEPONENT: IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE RULES OF CIVIL PROCEDURE, THIS IS ATTACHED FOR YOUR INSPECTION AND SIGNATURE. ANY CHANGES IN THE DEPOSITION IN FORM OR SUBSTANCE WHICH YOU CARE TO MAKE ARE TO BE MADE ON THIS SHEET WITH YOUR REASON THEREFORE.

DO NOT WRITE ON THE DEPOSITION ITSELF RETURN THIS FORM AND THE ORIGINAL SIGNATURE PAGE WITHIN 14 DAYS TO D & D REPORTING SERVICE.

FOR THE STATE: Lydia Wardell, Esquire FOR MR. PRINCE: Denis de Vlaming, Esquire LINE & PAGE NO. CHANGE OR CORRECTION AND REASON ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ HOWARD CROSBY __________________________ Date _______________ DEPONENT'S CERTIFICATE I have read the foregoing transcript of my oral deposition taken on the date and at the location indicated on the title page of the deposition, and I certify that said transcript is true and correct, with the provisions that any errors appearing therein have been corrected by me by listing on a separate sheet as to page number, line and content of said error(s), and further indicating the language to be substituted.

I also understand that upon completion of the reading, signing and correcting of the transcript, I am to return this original signature page, my list of corrections and said file copy provided for my inspection to the person or company listed on the pre-addressed envelope provided to me.

I further understand that if I do not carry out the instructions stated above within thirty days from the date I receive the transcript, I automatically waive my right to read and Scientology the deposition.

DATE: _____________________ NAME: ____________________ HOWARD CROSBY MAY 15, 2001

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