Subject: World's fastest dissolving "religion" (sic) - Scientology
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 20:48:06 -0500
Organization: Lisa McPherson Trust 727 467-9335
Message-ID: <b4gu0tg7tq5ftek1vj5lvvmo0aj0gf1nrh@4ax.com>
Let's be "CLEAR" on how many times Scientology has and continues to lie about its membership figures.
Since 1991 Scientology has been touting a membership figure of 8 million.
But a survey by adherents.com, an Internet site not affiliated with any religious, political, educational, or commercial organization and the 2nd most frequently visited general religion site on the Internet, lists Scientology as having 45,000 members in the United States.
Another part of the survey by adherents.com indicates that Scientology has 750,000 members worldwide.
The adherents.com survey has been placed in evidence this year in a court case, i.e. Raul Lopez v. Church of Scientology Mission of Buenaventura. In this case, a declaration was filed by Scientology's attorney, Gerald L.
Chaleff which attached these surveys as exhibits.
Chaleff, like all good lying Scientologists, neglects to mention the discrepancy between the adherents.com figures which he wants us to see and Scientology's 9-year claim of 8 million members.
A 750,000 membership number worldwide is not a believable number although the 45,000 in the US is consistent with critical estimates. Surely there cannot be more Scientologists outside of the US than there are in this country.
Bob Minton
For more information, see:
http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html
http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
From: michaelpattinson <michaelpattinson@my-deja.com>
Subject: Re: World's fastest dissolving "religion" (sic) - Scientology
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 06:28:06 GMT
Message-ID: <8uo1lj$6gv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
I was in a peculiarly advantaged position to see the extent of $cn memberships, or to at least get a darned good idea of it. I went to over 60 orgs and missions with my art /music show from 1980 to 1993.
These were in Europe and US as well as Mexico. The EDs and COs would all tell me how the org was REALLY doing! They were delighted to have someone to talk to who was independent of their own staff. I met the people and they shared their viewpoints on their orgs. I bet I have visited more orgs and missions than any one of the Int. Mgt. mob.
The orgs were not full or crowded as a general rule. Just a hardcore loyal public was the standard pattern. About 50 to 100 core members per org. Plus staff. EU Missions were far smaller, about 15 to 20 core members. US Missions were about double that.
I saw a lot of them come thru Flag, and I got updates from all over.
The 8 million figure is delusory. It is a Heber fantasy.
Heber was a comedian before $cn. Maybe this was just a bad joke?
Not funny! Geez!
Michael.
I estimate the world-wide $cn membership of ACTIVE (not CF"s full of
inactive names) Scienos is around 100,000 including staff. Of course
Flag's public all count only once in their home area, not also as Flag
public. My estimate may be generous if anything as I saw things were
dwindling even in 1997 when I left.
Message-ID: <3A0F9134.4CF1@virgin.net>
From: Roland <roland.rashleigh-berry@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: World's fastest dissolving "religion" (sic) - Scientology
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 06:59:00 +0000
> A 750,000 membership number worldwide is not a believable number although the
> 45,000 in the US is consistent with critical estimates. Surely there cannot
> be more Scientologists outside of the US than there are in this country.
>
> Bob Minton
That would seem to be consistent with the shrinkage we have seen in the UK. It is only the US now that is sustainable. The rest of the world is propped up by donations from the US. So that leaves 80,000 as a good worldwide estimate of clambed populations. No wonder the Mormons have got temples in all major towns and cities and even smaller places like here in Walthamstow while the Scientologists have only two seedy places in London and then nothing more until Brighton.
But then is this Scientology any more? I think it is not. We all know that King Squirrel runs it now and has changed original LRH material and squirreled most of the OT levels and processes. Those still in the "Church" must surely have agreed this wide-scale squirreling and now recognise David Miscavige as their religious leader. If not then they would have left the "Church" like all true Scientologists have already done.
Roland -- "I notice that we all believe that Venus has a methane atmosphere and is unlivable. I almost got run down by a freight locomotive the other day -- didn't look very uncivilized to me." - L. Ron Hubbard, "Between Lives Implants" lecture, SHSBC #317. 23 July 1963.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/rams/Venusloc.ram
From: Joe's Garage <swatron@xenu.net>
Subject: Re: World's fastest dissolving "religion" (sic) - Scientology
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 05:59:06 -0500
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1001113055336.114A-100000@darkstar.zippy>
On Mon, 13 Nov 2000, Roland wrote:
> But then is this Scientology any more? I think it is not. We all know
> that King Squirrel runs it now and has changed original LRH material and
> squirreled most of the OT levels and processes. Those still in the
> "Church" must surely have agreed this wide-scale squirreling and now
> recognise David Miscavige as their religious leader. If not then they
> would have left the "Church" like all true Scientologists have already
> done.
No it is not Scientology any more. Scientology used to be about being "at
cause." Now Scientology is about being a professional victim. On the
Scientology tone scale, the Church of OSA is at "needing bodies - badly."
Joe Cisar: http://cisar.org/rfs0100.htm Overview of Scientology in Germany: http://cisar.org/overview.htm Why would Gottfried Helnwein, one of the world's leading Scientologists, lie? See http://members.tripod.com/German_Scn_News/has00.htm
From: Monica Pignotti <pignotti@my-deja.com>
Subject: Re: World's fastest dissolving "religion" (sic) - Scientology
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 12:34:15 GMT
Message-ID: <8uon47$m5b$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
In article <3A0F9134.4CF1@virgin.net>, roland.rashleigh-berry@virgin.net wrote:
> But then is this Scientology any more? I think it is not. We all know
> that King Squirrel runs it now and has changed original LRH material and
> squirreled most of the OT levels and processes. Those still in the
> "Church" must surely have agreed this wide-scale squirreling and now
> recognise David Miscavige as their religious leader. If not then they
> would have left the "Church" like all true Scientologists have already
> done.
David Miscavige is not the cause of anything. The CofS has been
corrupt since Day 1 and has steadily gotten worse. If you think LRH
was innocent and DM is the villan here and everything was just fine
before that, you're fooling yourself. How old was DM when all the
heavy ethics situations of the late 1960s were happening? Was he in
charge then? I think not. Just remember who was in charge when all
the GO shennanigans were going on. Who fair gamed Paulette Cooper?
Who wrote fair game? Who was at the helm when all those overboardings occurred? Hint: it was not DM.
You all need to confront the fact that LRH is the source of the problems in the CofS, not DM. He was just a kid who basically grew up in the CofS and look at the result!
--
Monica Pignotti
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