can anyone help me out with regards to getting a refund from the Cof$?

i came to my senses and left the cult in 1997. since then i've crawled my way back, inch by inch, into 'the real world' ;-) i've almost cured myself of Scientology but i have a ways to go.

i know trying to get a refund from them is going to be a real bitch, but i just can't let it slide. i dumped my life's savings + maxed out four credit cards to get mind fucked by them - approx $45k in 1996 alone - and all i'm asking for/demanding is a refund of $18.9k.

i've already pursued this. back in 1998/1999, after much relentless persistence, i managed to get back what i had 'on account' which amounted to about 6k. to get that, i sent many letters which where ignored or returned to me to the local org, OSA east & west. i also sent letters to state Attorney General, Better Business Bureau - which i might add where all promptly and graciously responded to, unlike the communications i send to the freakin' Cof$ which where ignored or returned. what finally got to them, i think, is when i threatened to show up at the local org and 'go postal' - cause a big scene - and tell my story to any of the staffers and public that i could get to listen.

anyway, i gave up at that point and let go of the idea of getting the remainder. but now i feel a renewed sense of anger and outrage at what i've been through and i'm still paying off the credit card debt after all this time and i'm still way in debt and i never, ever was in debt before my descent into Cof$ madness. so the monthly bite is a constant reminder of the fiasco and an almost unbearable reminder of what an idiot/fool i was to squander all the money i'd saved for decades.

i'm wondering exactly what the legalities are. is there a 'statute of limitations'? or what is the exact policy the church had or has regarding refunds. what is their agreement with the IRS. do you think i have a hope in hell of getting anything back without taking them to court, etc.

thanks much for any info/suggestions/feedback.

Ital

From: ptsc <ptsc AT nym DOT cryptofortress DOT com>
Subject: Re: Cof$ refund policy - need help
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:55:43 -0400
Organization: ARS: Definitely the Most Malignant Newsgroup on Usenet
Message-ID: <4a0mqu0aup4fhn548inr1a83tu7nfel10b@4ax.com>

On Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:45:41 -0400, Ital <I-Tal@mindspring.com> wrote:

>anyway, i gave up at that point and let go of the idea of getting the
>remainder. but now i feel a renewed sense of anger and outrage at what
>i've been through and i'm still paying off the credit card debt after
>all this time and i'm still way in debt and i never, ever was in debt
>before my descent into Cof$ madness. so the monthly bite is a constant
>reminder of the fiasco and an almost unbearable reminder of what an
>idiot/fool i was to squander all the money i'd saved for decades.

IANAL, but:

I hate to say this, but your previous attempts to recover the debt indicate that you were aware of the fraud at least several years ago. The statute of limitations may have run or may be on the verge of running for many of the laws under which you might be able to sue. You can be sure Scientology is going to be highly aware of the fraud law and when they're "home free" under various fraud statutes. It's possible, however, that their own obstruction tolled the statute. Combine this with the your own inaction on it for several years, though, and whether or not you've let the case lapse through "laches" or some other form of neglecting to pursue it is a mystery to me. That's what a lawyer is for.

>i'm wondering exactly what the legalities are. is there a 'statute of
>limitations'? or what is the exact policy the church had or has
>regarding refunds. what is their agreement with the IRS. do you think
>i have a hope in hell of getting anything back without taking them to
>court, etc.

I don't think you will necessarily have to take them to court. However, I do think you will have to be in a position where they believe that you are capable of taking them to court with a case that they'd lose or at least spend far more on than is worth it. Unless you're a major critic that it is worth a significant amount of money just to hassle, they probably wouldn't force a huge court fight that they'd ultimately lose and that they have no PR or ego stake in. If, however, it's a matter of PR or ego, they'll fight a case to the death. Yours or theirs, and they prefer yours.

I suggest you consult a good fraud lawyer, as in yesterday. You may already be too late. You may also want to consider the Ted Mayett picket sign route, but note that this may have its dangers as well, and that comment about "going postal" wasn't a good indicator there. You don't want to do that and end up like that jerk arrested for kicking and biting people. Only do that if you think you can maintain calm in the face of incredibly nasty provocation, and if you can get at least one other person there and cover each other with cameras.

Either of these has sometimes met with success, but you should really consult with a lawyer to find out at least what your legal options are. It is certain that a renewed attempt at a refund will get the cult finding out what your legal options are, and you may as well at least know what kind of hand you're holding, if any.

Sometimes it seems, though, as if your chance of getting a refund has more to do with how much of a pain in the ass they think you're going to be than how much of a legal case you have.

This is pretty noncommittal but IANAL. If you consult a lawyer and they don't ask you some fairly extensive questions on those details, consult another one because the first you've consulted is a lazy idiot.

>thanks much for any info/suggestions/feedback.

>Ital

ptsc

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