Scientology --- 1/3 McPherson V CoS -- LMT Depo Continuation -- Judge Beach Presiding 09-07-01

1/3 McPherson V CoS -- LMT Depo Continuation -- Judge Beach Presiding 09-07-01

This is a continuation of the LMT Depo in McPherson V Scientology in the presence of Judge Beach, on Friday Sept 7, 2001. It is a ROUGH DRAFT, DIRTY ASCII and UNCERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT provided by court reporter on day of depo.

1 1 Is is is is is 2 THE VIDEOGRAPHER:

3 DIRECT EXAMINATION 4 MR. MOXON:

5 Q. Miss Brooks, do you have any documents to 6 produce on behalf of the Lisa McPherson trust 7 ink?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Would you please identify them?

10 A. Let's see. I have 1234 why don't you 11 go through them in order of the demand.

12 A. Okay.

13 Q. Well, tell me what -- tell me what 14 you have, that's fine you don't need to 15 necessarily put them in order I'll go through 16 them with you.

17 A. Per request number seven.

18 Q. Request -- which request number?

19 A. Which is records reflecting payments 20 to Stacy Brooks or Jessie prisons not 21 previously produced, what I've done is I've 22 produced W-2's not only for Stacy Brooks or 23 Jessie Prince, but also pursuant to a judge's 24 order number two, which is that I produce all 25 financial records regarding the payment of any

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

2 1 person identified at any time as a witness.

2 I've also produced the W-2 of Theresa summers, 3 Mark bunk either, Jeff Jacob son -- and Jessie 4 prisons and myself.

5 Q. So the W-2's which you've identified 6 I'll mark as Exhibit 1 to this deposition.

7 One page is incorrectly stapled here. 1234 8 don't worry about it.

9 A. The next thing I have is the 2000, 10 the year 2000 payroll records also not only 11 for Jessie prisons and Stacy Brooks, but also 12 for Mark bunk either, grade I ward, Jeff Jacob 13 son. This page was mistakenly not stapled, 14 sorry.

15 Q. We'll mark this as an exhibit which 16 is multiple pages, it looks like about 20 17 pages as Exhibit 2.

18 A. And I also have the quick books 19 records redacted for other items, but the 20 payroll and any other payments to anyone whose 21 ever been named as a witness are available 22 here.

23 Q. We'll mark this quick book printout 24 as Exhibit No. 3. Include File Not Found 3.

25 A. 1234 do you also have the video

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

3 1 record?

2 A. Yes, I do. I have the video records 3 with a declaration from Mark bunk either 4 regarding that. Would you like me to read 5 that into the record?

6 Q. Sure.

7 A. Declaration of mark bunk either. I 8 am an adult in the and the statements which 9 follow are made of my own personal knowledge.

10 I am employed as the videographer for the Lisa 11 McPherson trust and have held that position 12 since the formation of the trust. I have 13 worked as a videographer since before the 14 formation of the trust. I maintain all video 15 records of the Lisa McPherson trust and have 16 done so since the inception of the trust. The 17 Lisa McPherson trust does not now own possess 18 or control any raw video footage, whether on 19 magnetic tape or in digital form and has never 20 owned possessed or controlled any such 21 footage. I personally prepared the video 22 disks which were delivered by the L and T and 23 it's corporate at the present time active 24 deposition in mid August, 2001. Those disks 25 contain the entirety of the video records

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

4 1 owned possessed orbit L M T in any form much I 2 own or personally lease all of the equipment I 3 use in my work. I am the sole owner and 4 possess either of all video footage shot by me 5 from time to time create works in video format 6 for the L P M T at the direction its PREFS 7 those works when completed are the property of 8 the trust, are contained in their entirety opt 9 L M T website W W W do the Lisa trust do the 10 net and are duplicated in their entirety on 11 the video desks which was delivered by the L M 12 T and it's corporate representative deposition 13 in mid August 20016789 my raw video foot tame 14 is my ohm personal property which I use in my 15 work as a journalist and document tear yup. I 16 have furnished video works edited or cold from 17 my raw video foot I am to entities other than 18 the L M T, including W G B W Boston W TV T 19 Tampa the ZOON TV and a German production 20 which I am currently using my raw video 21 footage in the preparation of a long term 22 documentary film. I have read the complaint 23 answer and counterclaim in the McPherson 24 versus scientology much my raw footage not 25 contain any statements about that case made by

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

5 1 any person having personal knowledge of the 2 facts of the case. I have no personal 3 knowledge of the facts of that case. I have 4 no knowledge of any statement made by any 5 person who does have such knowledge. I have 6 no knowledge of the making of the decision to 7 bring that case or of the making of any 8 subsequent decisions concerning that case. I 9 have no personal knowledge regarding the 10 funding of plaintiff or defendant in that 11 case, the intended disposition of any proceeds 12 of that case, or payments to any person having 13 personal knowledge of any aspect of the case 14 or the facts of the case.

15 I have furnished to the corporate 16 representative of the L M T a duplicate of the 17 L M T website in its entirety on disk within 18 the limits of available technology for 19 delivery at the continuation of the L M T 20 representative deposition on September 7th, 21 2001. If there are any deficiencies or gaps 22 in the disk duplicate of the website, the 23 information images and/or documents are 24 immediately available to anyone with incident 25 net access at W W W do the Lisa trust do the

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

6 1 net.

2 Under penalties amounts of perjury I 3 declare that I have read the for going 4 declaration and that the facts state in it are 5 true of it's signed mark bunk either. This is 6 a physical record of the website and as he 7 stated in his declaration, if there is 8 anything for any technical reason that's not 9 on that disk, it's immediately available on 10 the website itself.

11 Q. We'll mark this single CD which is an 12 80 minute CD that says L M T website as 13 Exhibit 4. Include File Not Found I'm putting 14 the sticker on the CD itself, which is 15 partially covering of the office depot logo, 16 nothing else. I'm marking as Exhibit 5 the 17 declaration of Mark bunk either, which miss 18 Brooks just handed me. Do you have any other 19 documents, tapes, reportings, down loads, any 20 document or reporting of any nature to produce 21 in compliance with the orders of May 15th, 22 2000?

23 A. July 19th, 2000, November 8th, 2000, 24 January 10th, 2000, or judge beach's order?

25 A. Nothing further.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

7 1 Q. Okay. Now, you testified in your 2 last deposition that you decided what went on 3 the website, correct, what videos went on the 4 website?

5 A. I don't recall what my answer was in 6 the last session we had, but I do.

7 Q. And do you make that determination by 8 looking at what?

9 A. I make the determination by confering 10 with Mark bunk either, not really by looking 11 at anything, but by conferring with him about 12 what should be on it.

13 Q. And you also indicated in your last 14 deposition that as far as you know, Mark 15 Bunker has no other employment, no other 16 gainful employment other than his work at the 17 L M T; is that correct?

18 A. I don't recall what my testimony was 19 in the last.

20 Q. Are you aware of him having any other 21 income for any other work that he does?

22 A. I am aware that he's working on other 23 projects. I haven't asked him about any other 24 income that he has.

25 Q. Okay here's my question. Are you

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

8 1 aware of any other income Mr. Bunk either has?

2 A. No.

3 Q. He's a full time employee of L M T, 4 correct?

5 A. He works quite long hours for us, but 6 he also does other work in his other hours.

7 Q. Is he a full time employee of L M T 8 or not? Is he full time or part time?

9 A. Well, for his work schedule, it's 10 part time. As I said, he works other hours on 11 other projects.

12 Q. Does he work a 40-hour work 13 approximately for L M T?

14 A. Usually more than that.

15 Q. Did you -- 16 A. But excuse me. He works altogether 17 probably twice that much.

18 Q. Yeah?

19 A. And it's not all for the L M T.

20 Q. Who else does he work for?

21 A. You'd have to ask Mark.

22 Q. You don't know?

23 A. It's not my business.

24 Q. Okay you don't know?

25 A. I just know he has other projects.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

9 1 Q. You don't know of any other employee 2 -- employment that Mr. Bunk either has, do 3 you?

4 A. As I said, I know he has other 5 projects.

6 Q. I don't want to mince words I'm just 7 -- I want it clear for the record you're not 8 aware of any other employment that Mr. Bunk 9 either has, correct?

10 A. And I want to repeat what I said. I 11 am aware that he has other projects that he's 12 working on as he stated in his declaration, he 13 is, for one thing working on a long term 14 documentary project.

15 Q. Miss Brooks I'll just ask this 16 question once more did you if you don't want 17 to answer it then just let me know. Do you 18 know of any other employment that Mr. Bunk 19 either has? 1234 I think it's asked and 20 answered.

21 THE COURT: Do you know if he's 22 working for any other people and if so, who 23 are those people? Or businesses or 24 corporations?

25 A. Other than what he's said in his

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

10 1 declaration, I don't.

2 Q. Okay?

3 A. But I think he stated it pretty 4 clearly in his declaration.

5 Q. The camera that Mr. Bunk either has 6 was purchased by L M T and/or Robert Minton 7 and given to him to use, correct?

8 A. The camera that he uses was purchased 9 by Robert Minton before the L M T existed.

10 Q. That's the camera that he uses for 11 his video work?

12 A. Yes. It's not an L M T camera.

13 Q. Mr. Bunk either have facilities at L 14 M T for his editing of videos?

15 A. Does he keep some of his editing 16 equipment at the L M T.

17 Q. L M -- 18 A. He also has equipment at his home.

19 Q. L M T -- oh, you've been to his home?

20 A. Well, actually, he's told me .

21 Q. You've never been there?

22 A. I have been there.

23 Q. Have you seen this editing equipment 24 that you sea say he has at home?

25 A. I haven't been there since he was

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

11 1 just moving in, so no.

2 Q. Have you seen the videos that he has 3 at home?

4 A. No.

5 Q. Have you had any search conducted of 6 Mr. Bunk either's home?

7 A. No.

8 Q. Did you ask him to search his home to 9 produce all unedited videos that were taken by 10 him while working at L M T?

11 A. I believe that the situation with the 12 videotape is covered in the declaration of 13 Mark bunk either that I just read into the 14 record.

15 Q. Could you repeat the question to the 16 witness. Include File Not Found?

17 A. No, I did not. He owns the unedited 18 videotape. What I own or what the L M T owns 19 I should say is the completed work that is on 20 the website.

21 Q. Did you search Mr. Bunk either's 22 computer in his office for any unedited 23 videos?

24 A. I did look on his computer and there 25 is none.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

12 1 Q. There are no unedited videos on the 2 computer in his office?

3 A. Rye.

4 Q. At L M T?

5 A. Corrects.

6 Q. You searched the whole computer?

7 A. Well, yes.

8 Q. How do you know what's unedited video 9 and what's an edited video?

10 A. Well, I looked to see if there was 11 anything on it.

12 Q. How do you know what's an edited 13 video and an edited video?

14 A. Well, an edited video has, you know, 15 introductory graphics on it and a copyright 16 notice at the end.

17 Q. So you looked through his entire 18 computer and looked at every single video in 19 there to see if it was edited or unedited?

20 A. Well, there weren't, you know, he 21 doesn't have room on his computer, I don't 22 know if you understand about.

23 Q. Miss Brooks if you could just answer 24 1234 I'm going to object and ask that the 25 counsel not interrupt the witness your Honor?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

13 1 THE COURT: Go ahead and answer the 2 question.

3 A. I don't know if you understand how 4 this -- how much room on a computer video 5 takes, but you can't just keep videotape on a 6 computer much there's no room.

7 Q. Okay. I'm going to repeat the 8 question. If you could read approximate back 9 1234 I'm going to object again 10 THE COURT : Reask the question 11 please. Reask the question, listen to the 12 question only answer what the question 13 requires, do not add anything else if it just 14 requires a yes or a no give it a yes or a no.

15 A. Yes. Okay. Include File Not Found.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. You retyped it after the?

18 MR. MOXON: When you rerequest a 19 question.

20 Q. How long did it take you to look at every 21 single video in Mr. Bunk either's computer?

22 A. It didn't take very long at all 23 because there weren't any videos in his 24 computer. When he -- when he's finished with 25 a video, he takes it off the computer so that

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

14 1 he has room on the computer. So when I looked 2 at the computer, what he had on it was his 3 e-mail program, his -- the software, the news 4 group, there's a news group that he follows.

5 Q. Okay so let me clarify then. You 6 looked in Mr. Bunk either's computer and you 7 found no videos at all?

8 A. Correct.

9 Q. But there were videos in the computer 10 that he had been working on which he edited 11 during the -- during the last year-and-a-half 12 when he was working at L M T, correct?

13 A. Yes. But as I said, once they're 14 finished, he takes them off and he's not 15 currently editing a video.

16 Q. And what happened to the unedited 17 videos?

18 A. I believe he takes that footage home.

19 He may also keep it somewhere else.

20 Q. You didn't ask -- 21 A. But I don't know.

22 Q. Ask Mr. Bunker to produce that 23 unedited 1234 objection asked and answered.

24 MR. MOXON: Excuse me let me finish 25 the question please.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

15 1 Q. Ask the question.

2 Q. You didn't ask Mr. Bunk either to produce 3 that unedited footage of the videos that were 4 produced since March of -- well, since it 5 started?

6 A. No.

7 Q. Working at L M T did you?

8 A. No. 1234 I'll object to it can asked 9 and answered.

10 THE COURT: Overruled.

11 Q. Do you recall a composite video of 12 Jessie prisons that was produced at the 13 deposition of the representative of L M T in 14 May of the year 2000?

15 A. I don't. Was I the representative at 16 that depo?

17 Q. No. Robert Minton was the 18 representative at that time. Do you recall 19 that there was a composite video produced of 20 clips of Jessie prisons that were produced in 21 response to order of May 15th?

22 A. I don't recall that.

23 Q. Okay so that's not something you're 24 producing as responsive to the order, that 25 clip of Jessie prisons 1234 I'm sorry judge I

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

16 1 have to ask for clarification. Is the 2 question whether she's reproducing thins that 3 have been produced in the past?

4 THE COURT: Restate the question.

5 Q. Okay you're not aware of the 6 production of a composite video of Jessie 7 prisons is that your testimony?

8 A. I don't remember what was produced at 9 that deposition. I wasn't the person being 10 deposed, but if it's already been produced, 11 then I assume you already have that.

12 Q. Okay. I'm not asking you if you 13 remember?

14 A. I don't have it.

15 Q. Let me reask this question. Do you 16 know of a composite video that was prepared of 17 Jessie prisons or not?

18 A. I don't recall that that happened.

19 It doesn't mean it didn't, but I don't recall 20 it.

21 Q. Okay. Do you have a VCR?

22 MS. HELLER: Yeah it's outside.

23 Q. I'm going to show you a few minutes 24 of the video that was produced by Robert 25 Minton when he was acting as the corporate

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

17 1 writ representative while they're getting it, 2 let me ask you a couple more questions.

3 Q. When did you become the president of 4 L M T?

5 A. Probably March of 2000.

6 Q. There was a -- some document 7 indicating when you were the president, 8 correct?

9 A. Excuse me.

10 Q. ?

11 Q. There is some document indicating 12 when you became the president?

13 A. I don't believe so.

14 Q. And in the earlier deposition, the 15 first deposition of L M T, it was of Robert 16 Peterson, correct? Do you remember that?

17 A. What about Robert Peterson?

18 Q. Robert Peterson was the first person 19 produced as the representative of L M T for 20 the L M T corporate deposition?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. You hired him just before the 23 deposition, right?

24 A. I actually don't remember how long he 25 had been working there before I asked him to

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

18 1 attend the deposition.

2 Q. Well, you testified you had hired him 3 a week earlier, I'm representing that to you 4 see if that refreshes your recollection.

5 A. I -- I don't recall.

6 Q. All right. Your Honor the one that 7 instructed Robert Peterson to testify as the 8 corp receipt representative?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. At L M T right?

11 So at the time that he testified, you 12 were the president of L M T?

13 A. When was his deposition?

14 Q. It was in April, April 24th of 2000.

15 A. Yes, I would have been by then, yes.

16 Q. Did you own all the stock in the 17 corporation at that time?

18 A. I believe so.

19 Q. By the way, do you have this -- the 20 board minute or stock certificate that was 21 signed over giving you all the stock of the 22 corporation?

23 A. No.

24 Q. Why not?

25 A. I wasn't asked to produce that.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

19 1 Q. Well, I asked you to produce it at 2 the last deposition. Any way, you still have 3 that document.

4 A. Pursuant to what?

5 Q. As -- as something of value that was 6 given to you.

7 A. I -- I don't believe that's 8 responsive to any of the judge's order.

9 Q. Do you know who created the prisons 10 video, the clips of the prisons video?

11 A. I don't remember this video, so.

12 Q. Okay.

13 MR. MOXON: Let's go off the record 14 for a moment.

15 (Discussion off the record.)

16 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: 1234 wait way I'm not 17 agreeing to go off the record.

18 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're off the video 19 record. 1234 no, stay on the record.

20 MR. MOXON: Fine, stay on the record. Do 21 you have the video 22 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're on the video 23 record.

24 MR. MOXON: I'm going to ask you to stop 25 it from time to time. Ben Ben okay. Tell me

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

20 1 when you want me to start it.

2 MR. MOXON:

3 Q. This video excerpt that was produced by 4 Robert Minton, when he was acting as the 5 corporate representative has 46 excerpts on it 6 in one videotape, all of which were produced 7 allegedly in response to judge moody's order 8 of May 15th to produce unedited videos for his 9 videos of statements of all witnesses as I 10 said this has 46 excerpts of Jessie prisons.

11 I'm just going to show you a few of them, all 12 right? The first one is the 8th excerpt. You 13 can broaden the field if you like for the 14 video?

15 A. Not very good work.

16 Q. You can stop it now.

17 Q. Do you know where the -- that was 18 excerpt number eight we just saw. Do you know 19 where the unedited video is from which that 20 excerpt was drawn?

21 A. I don't.

22 Q. Okay. Next we'll play excerpt number 23 nine.

24 Q. That's Jessie prisons on the right 25 correct?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

21 1 MS. HELLER: This is excerpt ten 2 already.

3 Q. Number ten, okay.

4 Q. Stop it. That was excerpt number ten 5 where yes, sir I was talking about a new roach 6 skin in reference to the standing out in front 7 of the church there who was that person with 8 him?

9 A. That's dunk inpierce.

10 Q. Does he work for L M T?

11 A. No.

12 Q. Is he associated with L M T in some 13 way?

14 A. He's on the board of directors.

15 Q. Where's the unedited video from which 16 that excerpt was drawn?

17 A. I don't know. I don't believe I've 18 ever seen this before.

19 Q. We'll show you the next excerpt.

20 This is excerpt 11 from what was produced in 21 May.

22 Q. That was excerpt 11, do you know 23 where the rest of the video is from which that 24 excerpt was drawn?

25 A. No.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

22 1 Q. I'll show you excerpt 12. Played 2 played?

3 Q. That was Jessie prisons talking, 4 correct in that video?

5 A. I'm not sure I even saw him in there.

6 Q. Let's back up. I know it was short, 7 these excerpts that you gave us, some of them 8 were only a few seconds long?

9 Q. That's Jessie with a black suit on 10 and the glasses, correct?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. And that's -- you can play the next 13 one too, it's a different angle, which is 14 excerpt number 12. This is 11 right here it's 15 just a few seconds long and following is 16 number 12. That is Jessie and rod Keller, 17 correct?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And this next one that's Jessie also 20 correct?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. And that's -- who else is there?

23 Grade I ward, that's one of your employees and 24 that's Keith hen son, he's on your board, 25 right?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

23 1 A. No. Keith hen son?

2 Q. Uh-huh?

3 A. No, he's not.

4 Q. Okay you can stop now. Where are the 5 -- where are the rest of these videos, the 6 unedited videos that were order Todd produce 7 by judge moody from which these excerpts were 8 drawn 1234 I'm going to object it miss 9 character raises judge moody's order the order 10 was to produce uneducated?

11 THE COURT: We'll strike judge Moody 12 from the order and just ask where the videos.

13 Q. Where the the unedited videos from 14 which these excerpts were drawn?

15 A. I don't know.

16 Q. That was Dell Liebreich that walked 17 by in that last shot too wasn't it?

18 A. I didn't see Dell in there I don't 19 believe it was actually.

20 Q. Back it up. Is that Dell right there 21 next to Jessie? No?

22 Q. Do you know who that woman is?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Whose that?

25 A. That's my mother. She came down for

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

24 1 the memorial.

2 Q. Okay. Next excerpt number 14 has a 3 caption at the beginning which says L M T 4 building opens Clearwater, January 5th, 2000.

5 Can we play that section, please?

6 Q. That's you and Jesse?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Dell is Dell Liebriech right?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. You don't know where the excerpt -- 11 where the entire video is from which that 12 excerpt was drawn?

13 A. No.

14 Q. I can show you more, if you want.

15 But you don't know where any of the unedited 16 videos are from which the excerpts were drawn 17 for these little shots of Jessie Prince, do 18 you?

19 A. No.

20 Q. You made no attempt to find them, did 21 you?

22 A. No, I didn't, but I made an attempt 23 to clarify based on the judge's order.

24 Q. Did you ask Mr. Bunk either if these?

25 A. One moment. One moment.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

25 1 Q. I think you've answered the question 2 I just wanted to know if you had asked for 3 them 1234 actually judge I would ask that the 4 witness be permitted to answer the question?

5 THE COURT: Yeah, let's America 6 answer the question or either and unthe 7 question and go on to something else.

8 MR. MOXON: She's answered it.

9 A. The order specifically states what is in 10 my control directly or indirectly and did I do 11 that.

12 Q. Okay. Bunk either still works four 13 righted, he's still your employee?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. When did you make this alleged 16 agreement with Mr. Bunk either that he could 17 keep whatever you decided not to put up on the 18 web page?

19 A. Well, if I can just refer back to the 20 declaration.

21 Q. Tell me 1234 I'm going to object at 22 this point as mischaracterizing the testimony.

23 That's not alleged agreement.

24 MR. MOXON: I object to the -- I 25 didn't ask to you look back at his declaration

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

26 1 I'm actually asking you.

2 THE COURT: You're going to have to base 3 an anxious on your recollection, not what he 4 has in his statement.

5 A. Okay.

6 Q. You testified in your last -- 7 A. But I did read that statement into 8 the record.

9 Q. You testified at your last deposition 10 you made an agreement with Mr. Bunk either 11 that he could keep whatever videos he took 12 that you decided not to put on the web page.

13 Now, my question is, when did you make this 14 alleged agreement with Mr. Bunk either?

15 A. When he came to work for the L M T.

16 Q. Okay. Did you send sign a contract 17 with him? No?

18 Q. This was an oral agreement you made 19 with limb?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Do you know the police video that 22 Mr. Bunk either put up on the website?

23 A. .

24 Q. The one where you're complaining 25 about how the Clearwater police are prejudice

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

27 1 dividend against your organization?

2 A. I'm familiar with the police video.

3 Q. Okay. And there's statements from 4 you in there, from Minton, from Jessie, from 5 bunk either, correct?

6 A. Incorrect.

7 Q. Okay. There's statements from you, 8 right?

9 A. From me, yes.

10 Q. Do you know where the unedited videos 11 are from which those statements were drawn?

12 A. No.

13 Q. Did you ask Mr. Bunker for them?

14 A. No.

15 Q. Mr. Bunk either's camera that he was 16 provided by Mr. Minton uses video cast sets 17 doesn't it?

18 A. I'm not actually.

19 Q. Like you put into a VCR and actually 20 a video cast set with tape on it?

21 A. No. The camera itself has little 22 film things. The video cast sets are what -- 23 I mean, the camera doesn't have video cast 24 sets in it no.

25 Q. No video cast sets whatsoever in the

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

28 1 camera that bank you are uses?

2 A. No, like I said, the camera itself 3 has little things that are about this big.

4 Q. Mr. Bunk either's camera is about 5 even big bigger actually than the one that had 6 videographer here today uses?

7 A. .

8 Q. It's bigger than that?

9 A. Yes, it is.

10 Q. Okay. But you're saying it doesn't 11 -- absolutely doesn't use video cast sets at 12 all?

13 A. Well, I understand you to mean by 14 video cast set a standard size video cast set 15 and I'm just clarifying that what the camera 16 itself uses is smaller than a video cast set.

17 Q. Okay a small sized video cast set?

18 A. Well, I'm not sure you call it a 19 video -- I mean that's what I call a video 20 cast set is a full size thing.

21 Q. Aid very cast set?

22 A. It does have film in it you know he 23 pops it in and he pops it out but I don't 24 think it's called a video cast set. But it's 25 film for the camera.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

29 1 Q. How big are those video cast sets?

2 A. About this big.

3 Q. The size of a cigarette box?

4 A. No, bigger than that. You know.

5 Q. A little bigger than a pack of 6 cigarettes?

7 A. Yeah.

8 Q. Like two packs of significant let's?

9 A. Like -- like four maybe.

10 Q. Four, okay. Do you have any idea 11 where those video cast sets are?

12 A. No.

13 Q. You didn't ask Mr. Bunk either for 14 them, did you?

15 A. I didn't.

16 Q. Are you familiar with the term L M T 17 media?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. What is that?

20 A. That's the name that is on our 21 website that describes the part of the website 22 that has video and audio on it.

23 Q. Is that part of L M T or is that an 24 independent company?

25 A. Well, it's not an independent

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

30 1 company, no.

2 Q. Does L M T pay for the costs to 3 create and maintain L M T video -- media, L M 4 T media?

5 A. Yes, for the cost of L M T media, we 6 do.

7 Q. Now, Jeff Jacob son does videos also, 8 doesn't he?

9 A. He does.

10 Q. Jeff Jacob son is your librarian, 11 right?

12 A. Jeff does videos on his own.

13 Q. Jeff Jacob son is your librarian, 14 right?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. And he makes videos during his work 17 at L M T, correct?

18 A. No, it's not part of his work at L M 19 T.

20 Q. Okay. A lot of videos that are up on 21 your website are taken by Jeff Jacob son 22 aren't they?

23 A. No, that's incorrect.

24 Q. It's your testimony that there 25 respect any video taken by Jeff Jacob son son

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

31 1 your website?

2 A. No, it's my testimony that it's 3 incorrect to say that a lost video on L M T 4 media is taken by Jeff Jacob son.

5 Q. Some of it is?

6 A. Perhaps. Honestly.

7 Q. Well, there any or not?

8 A. Well, to be honest with you, I don't 9 know much it's entirely possible, but I don't 10 know who takes all of the video that mark ends 11 up using that he puts up on L M T media.

12 Q. So is it your testimony that all of 13 the video that Jeff Jacob son has taken is 14 during the time that's being paid as an 15 employee for L M T is his personal property?

16 A. Jeff Jacobson? Yes.

17 Q. Okay. So the flip side of that then, 18 just so I have this clear, it's your testimony 19 that nothing, none of the video that Jeff 20 Jacob son was taken was ever in the custody 21 possession or control of L M T?

22 A. That's correct.

23 Q. He's a full time employee of L M T, 24 correct?

25 A. Yes.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

32 1 Q. Does he have any other employment 2 that you know of?

3 A. I don't believe so, but I'm not sure.

4 Q. And he takes videos at demonstrations 5 for example doesn't he?

6 A. He has upon several occasions.

7 Q. I've seen a video of me maybe 50 8 times since I've been walking 1234 I'm going 9 to object to counsel testifying.

10 Q. Let me finish my question. 1234 it's 11 not a question, Your Honor?

12 THE COURT: Well let him finish and 13 then I'll rule on the completed question.

14 Q. Let's see if I can refresh your 15 recollection. I have seen him video me maybe 16 50 times when he was walking around Clearwater 17 during the day if I have been here visiting my 18 clients or in the Clearwater area in the 19 proximity of your offices in the church 20 buildings in Clearwater. Does that refresh 21 your recollection or your knowledge as to 22 whether or not Mr. Jacob son is taking video 23 while he's on his job at L M T? 1234 I'll on 24 the. There's been no failure of recollections 25 she's already answered the question.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

33 1 Mr. Moxon is claiming?

2 THE COURT: Sustained 1234 you don't 3 need to answer that, it was sustained.

4 Q. Is it your testimony that nobody 5 other no video that Mr. Jacob son takes is on 6 behalf of L M T?

7 A. That's correct.

8 Q. And no photographs that he takes are 9 on behalf of L M T?

10 A. That's correct. I've never asked him 11 to videotape or take photographs of anything.

12 Q. And does he have free rain from you 13 to leave his work whenever he police and walk 14 around Clearwater and do videos?

15 A. As long as Jeff performs the duties 16 that he's at the Lisa McPherson trust to 17 perform, I don't police him every moment.

18 Q. So the answer is yes, you've given 19 him free rain to leave his job whenever he 20 police and walk around Clearwater and video 21 your other employees of L M T, video church 22 staff, video people coming in and out of the 23 church, videoing the churches, videoing church 24 staff?

25 A. Incorrect.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

34 1 Q. So he doesn't have free rain to do 2 that?

3 A. As I said, Jeff performs the duties 4 of his job very well and what he does, when he 5 takes a break or on his own time is up to 6 Jeff.

7 Q. Okay. Let me just clarify this then.

8 Whenever he leaves L M T and walks around 9 Clearwater, even if it's for hours on end 10 taking videos and even videos L M T staff when 11 they're doing demonstrations or, you know, 12 yelling at or talking to church staff members 13 or his videos of church staff, none of that 14 has anything what so ever with his work at L M 15 T?

16 A. First of all, Jeff Jacob son has 17 never yelled at any church staff member in his 18 life. I know that for a fact because that's 19 just not the way Jeff is. Second of all, he 20 has never taken off hours at a time from his 21 job to do anything. So I believe you're 22 mischaracterizing Jeff Jacob son's actions.

23 Q. Okay much let me break this down 24 then. I'll have to do it this way. Is it 25 your testimony that whenever he leaves L M T

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

35 1 to do videos in Clearwater it's absolutely on 2 his own time and it has nothing to do with his 3 job at L M T?

4 A. That's correct.

5 Q. No matter how many hours he spends 6 doing it?

7 A. Again, Jeff does not take off hours 8 at a time from his work to do anything else 9 but his work.

10 Q. No matter how many hours he spends 11 doing it, it's still his own time?

12 A. That's right.

13 Q. And if the videos that he's taken 14 happen to show up on L M T's web page, you 15 don't know anything about it?

16 A. You know, I don't really.

17 Q. And if it's on L M T's web page then 18 you consider it to be your property, right?

19 A. Yes. But again, I believe Mark bunk 20 either gets video foot fringe a number of 21 different sources.

22 Q. ?

23 Q. Did you ask Jeff Jacob son to produce 24 to you the videos that he had made while 25 working for L M T?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

36 1 A. Jeff hasn't produced -- hasn't 2 created any videos while working for the L M T 3 it's not part of his job.

4 Q. Miss Brooks ask answer listen to my 5 question it's a different question?

6 A. Well, do you know what you keep 7 mischaracterizing and I keep answering you and 8 I keep trying to clarify what you're saying 9 because what you're saying is incorrects.

10 Q. I understand what you're saying.

11 Q. You didn't ask Jeff Jacob son to 12 produce any of the videos he's made while he's 13 been in Clearwater employed at L M T correct?

14 A. No, did I not. None of his videotape 15 is owned by the L M T. I just want to state 16 for the record that Jeff Jacob son has been 17 videotaping and maintaining a website about 18 scientology since long before he worked for 19 the Lisa McPherson trust. Jeff does a lot of 20 other work and has been doing a lot of other 21 work long since, I believe, the '80s and a lot 22 of the work that he does, does not have 23 anything to to do with the Lisa McPherson 24 trust.

25 Q. When did Jeff Jacob son start working

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

37 1 for L M T?

2 A. Perhaps May.

3 Q. And he's paid as a salary employee, 4 correct?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. The deposition of Mr. Minton on May 7 18th, 2000 he was asked this question every 8 single tame tape that mark bunk either has 9 created is on the Internet in digital form 10 answer well they're on a computer somewhere 11 question, where, answer, at the Lisa McPherson 12 trust. Question, every single tape that he's 13 created? Answer, most of them I'm sure. This 14 was, as I say, May 18th, 2000 when Mr. Minton 15 was your representative. What happened to all 16 these tapes that were on the computer at the 17 Lisa McPherson trust?

18 A. Well, I would have to say that 19 Mr. Minton was incorrect and misspoke in his 20 testimony because it's technically impossible 21 for all of the videos to be on a computer.

22 There's no room.

23 Q. What happened to the videos that were 24 on the computer? I'll on the it's asked and 25 answered?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

38 1 THE COURT: She's answered the 2 question.

3 Q. So you don't know what Mr. Minton was 4 talking about?

5 A. I believe I just said I believe he 6 misspoke.

7 Q. What happened to the videos that were 8 on the computer as of May 18th, 2000? 1234 9 objection asked and answered.

10 THE COURT: Overruled.

11 A. As I testified earlier when Mark 12 finishes editing, he takes all of that off of 13 the computer so that he has room to do 14 something else. So on a regular basis, all of 15 the video footage that he might be using to do 16 a particular video is removed from his 17 computer. So what happened to it is that I'm 18 sure Mark has taken it off the computer. It 19 would have had to have been taken off the 20 computer.

21 Q. How many video cast sets are at L M T 22 right now?

23 A. I believe I answered this earlier.

24 Perhaps 200, perhaps less at this point. Mark 25 has copies on regular video cast sets of some

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

39 1 of the interviews that are only website for 2 use when people request a copy of the video, 3 we get a locality of requests for copies of 4 videos that are on the website so that people 5 can show them to their families, to their 6 friends.

7 Q. Your Honor?

8 MR. MOXON: Your Honor, I would just 9 like to request an admonition from you we 10 don't have a lot of time here and I asked the 11 witness a question how many and she goes on 12 for a minute giving, you know, sort of this 13 spin. She answers the question and then goes 14 on and on and on and on much I've got a lot of 15 questions to ask her here. If you could ask 16 her.

17 A. I was just trying to.

18 MR. MOXON: Perhaps I don't want to 19 educate her and argue with her.

20 Q. Well I understand what you're doing.

21 1234 judge, if I could be heard briefly it 22 would simplify it if they weren't questions 23 that were asked back on August 15th what how 24 many and what are they?

25 A. I know I already did answer that

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

40 1 question.

2 THE COURT: It would be helpful, I know 3 you're trying to be helpful but it would be 4 helpful to listen to the question that only 5 requires a yes or no and then limit it to that 6 and the problem is the more you answer, the 7 more questions he asks.

8 A. Okay. But the problem is sometimes the 9 way he asks the question you can't really 10 answer it because it's sort of like when did 11 you stop beating your wife.

12 THE COURT: I never beet my wife.

13 A. Well I'm not saying you.

14 THE COURT: No I'm just saying that's 15 how you answer the question?

16 A. Well, then that's sort what of I'm 17 try to go do.

18 THE COURT: Yeah.

19 A. But I'll tried to do it more quickly.

20 Q. ?

21 THE COURT: Answer it with a yes or 22 no and if it requires with a I never beet my 23 wife, that's FBI. 46789 for the record that 24 was Mr. Dandar he said he's on his way here.

25 Q. Part of Mr. Jacob son's job as a

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

41 1 librarian is to keyed videos too isn't it?

2 A. That's incorrect.

3 Q. So Mr. Jacob son maintains absolutely 4 no videos?

5 A. Not for the L M T he doesn't no.

6 Q. There's no videos in his area?

7 A. That's correct.

8 Q. And L M T that's somebody videoing 9 virtually every came demonstration they're 10 involved in correct?

11 A. No.

12 Q. I mean I can show you clips of 13 probably every demonstration with bunk either 14 and Jacob son videoing if you want we can 15 spend a lost time doing that but you're not 16 aware of Jacob son and bunk either videoing 17 demonstrations 1234 Your Honor it's 18 argumentative and misleading that's not the 19 question he asked?

20 THE COURT: Well, the question; are 21 you aware of these people videotaping 22 demonstrations.

23 A. Yes, I am. But again, this is a beet 24 your wife kind question because most of the 25 demonstrations are done after hours and Mark

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

42 1 bunk either -- well and first of all I should 2 say.

3 THE COURT: Listen to the question 4 this is are you aware. It doesn't matter -- 5 it doesn't ask you for which when or where or 6 under what conditions. Just are you aware 7 that they did videotape deposition.

8 A. Yes, I am aware.

9 Q. Okay that's fine?

10 Q. Do you know where the unedited videos 11 receive those demonstrations?

12 A. I don't, as I I said most of it was 13 done off of job time. And it wasn't done for 14 the L M T. I have never ordered mark or Jeff 15 to go out and videotape any of the 16 demonstrations.

17 Q. Moving to strike everything beyond 18 the answer?

19 THE COURT: Yeah.

20 Q. Okay so it's your testimony that no L 21 M T employee has ever tend attended a video -- 22 has ever attended a demonstration in 23 Clearwater as part of their work, that it's 24 always after work hours? 1234 I'll on the as 25 being compound.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

43 1 THE COURT: Overruled. 1234 then I 2 would struck the witness do answer only one of 3 those questions.

4 THE COURT: Overruled. Answer the 5 question, please.

6 A. Okay now I can't remember.

7 Q. Let me give you the question again 8 much it's your testimony that no L M T 9 employee has ever attended any demonstration 10 in Clearwater during work hours?

11 A. No, that's not my testimony. But my 12 testimony is that I have never ordered any L M 13 T staff member to attend a demonstration.

14 Q. Okay I didn't ask you that I didn't 15 ask you that?

16 A. But I think this is important and I 17 need to clarify my answer.

18 Q. You can do that on cross-examination 19 if you want?

20 THE COURT: Okay she's answered the 21 question go ahead and move on.

22 Q. There's a speech that Mr. Minton gave 23 at a quote cult infoe conference in February 24 of 1999 that was videoed by Mr. Bunk either.

25 Where is the unedited version of that?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

44 1 A. That's before the L M T even existed 2 Mr. Moxon, I have no idea and it has nothing 3 to do with the L M T.

4 Q. Part of it's on your website.

5 A. Well, that part is part of the L M T 6 then, but anything else is not.

7 Q. Okay. There's a video done of you 8 and Mr. Minton demonstrating at Bonetta 9 Slaughter's house, do you remember that?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. Where's that unedited video?

12 A. I have no idea.

13 Q. It's not been produced has it?

14 A. Not today.

15 Q. But today you've produced allegedly 16 everything isn't that one CD correct?

17 A. Yes. 1234 Your Honor I'm sorry that 18 was previously produced?

19 A. I don't know. I know that it was -- 20 I believe they showed it at Mr. Minton's 21 criminal trial where he was acquited.

22 Q. Who took that video?

23 A. Yes, it was shown at that criminal 24 trial.

25 Q. Who took that video?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

45 1 A. I did. Again, that was before the L 2 M T existed.

3 Q. Again I object Your Honor?

4 A. It has nothing to do with the L M T.

5 THE COURT: Just don't anticipate.

6 The ramifications of your answer, just provide 7 the answer that answers the question. Don't 8 worry about it's affect on the case, okay.

9 A. Well it's not on the case that I'm 10 worried about it's just on me.

11 THE COURT: Well, just answer the 12 question and this will go a lot faster without 13 adding a lot of editorial comment to your 14 answer.

15 Q. In March and April of 2000 when there 16 were a number of hearings concerning whether 17 or not L M T had to produce documents and 18 videos and financial records, there were 19 motions for protective order that were filed 20 by Mr. Dandar, do you remember that?

21 A. I don't.

22 Q. Do you remember you attended some of 23 the hearings?

24 A. I do remember attending many 25 hearings.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

46 1 Q. Okay who was representing L M T's 2 interest then?

3 A. In March of 2000?

4 Q. Right. April of 2000.

5 A. I thought Mr. Merit was already 6 working with us at that point.

7 Q. So if it wasn't Mr. Merit, you had no 8 counsel at all?

9 A. I really don't recall.

10 Q. Okay much so you don't remember 11 Mr. Dandar bringing a motion to strike the L M 12 T depositions? And document productions?

13 A. I don't really.

14 Q. Did you have any discussions with 15 Mr. Dandar to quash or suppress the subpoenas 16 against L M T?

17 A. Again, are you referring back to 18 April of 2000?

19 Q. That's correct.

20 A. I don't really recall. I know I -- I 21 don't really recall.

22 Q. Mr. Dandar made representations in 23 court that L M T was acquiring the records in 24 response to the subpoena in arguments he made 25 to the court in a motion that I filed for

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

47 1 sanctions back in April of 2000 do you 2 remember that?

3 A. That the L M T was acquiring records.

4 Q. No. I'll give that you again.

5 Mr. Dandar argued that L M T was acquiring 6 records?

7 A. Acquiring.

8 Q. To produce to me in response to my 9 document request to prevent the L M T from 10 being sanctioned do you remember that hearing?

11 A. No real I don't real.

12 Q. Do you remember that you were sitting 13 there?

14 MR. MERRIT: Objection asked and 15 answered.

16 THE COURT: It has been.

17 Q. Do you remember a hearing on May 3rd when 18 I was arguing while you were a relevant 19 witness in the case?

20 A. I don't.

21 Q. You don't remember that?

22 Judge moody order that had your 23 deposition be taken, do you remember when you 24 were in court and he ordered that?

25 A. Not really.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

48 1 Q. Was Mr. Dandar representing you at 2 that time?

3 A. I really don't recall. I would have 4 said Mr. Merit was.

5 Q. Before you hired Mr. Merit?

6 MR. MERRIT: I'll object to counsel 7 testifying.

8 THE COURT: Overruled.

9 MR. MERRIT: I'll object then that it's 10 argumentative.

11 THE COURT: Overruled.

12 Q. Before Mr. Merrit made an appearance, 13 there were a number of motions for protective 14 order that were argued by Mr. Dandar much it's 15 your recollection -- it's your testimony that 16 you have absolutely no recollection of any 17 litigation involving you or L M T prior to the 18 time that Mr. Mayor it made an appearance?

19 A. No. That's not my testimony.

20 Q. Okay. Well, who was representing you 21 in that litigation, you and L M T?

22 A. I'm not sure we were represented.

23 I'm not sure.

24 Q. Okay. You department pay Mr. Dandar 25 to represent you; is that right?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

49 1 A. Correct.

2 Q. And you had -- is it your testimony 3 you had absolutely no communications ever any 4 kind with Mr. Dandar?

5 A. No.

6 Q. With respect to representation of you 7 or L M T or your interests at any of those 8 hearings when he was arguing?

9 A. No, that's not my testimony.

10 Q. Okay much did you have discussions 11 with Mr. Dandar about that?

12 A. I'm sure I did.

13 Q. You were aware of an order that was 14 issued in May requiring L M T to produce 15 records and videotapes, aren't you May of 16 2000?

17 A. May of 2001?

18 Q. 2000.

19 A. I believe I -- I don't think I have 20 it with me now, but I believe I had it with me 21 at the last deposition.

22 Q. So you were aware of that at the time 23 too, right?

24 A. I'm sure I was.

25 Q. By the way, what attorney

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

50 1 incorporated L M T, do you know?

2 A. I don't believe there was an attorney 3 who incorporated T we sent papers to the 4 secretary of state and.

5 Q. You're knotted aware of -- 6 A. I mean, you don't need an attorney to 7 incorporate.

8 Q. Miss Brooks, you don't need to argue 9 with me on every yes?

10 A. No I'm not YOIM I'm not saying I 11 don't know if there was an attorney.

12 Q. Okay you're not aware of an attorney 13 that L M T utilized in its incorporation 14 ROOFRM?

15 A. Right.

16 Q. So the fact that Mr. Dandar was 17 present, sent papers in, you were unaware of 18 that?

19 A. I believe Mr. Dandar did send the 20 papers in because I was working at his office 21 at the time because we didn't have an office 22 yet.

23 Q. In fact, L M T operated out plaintiff 24 Dandar's office when it first opened, right?

25 A. Wrong.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

51 1 Q. Well I can refresh your recollection 2 with a -- 3 A. We opened.

4 Q. Just a minute, with a posting you put 5 only Internet saying you can be reached at 6 Mr. Dandar's office until we get a building 7 does that help #SNU I'll object there's been 8 no indication of a failure of recollection.

9 She testified to clearly and concise LI wrong?

10 Q. All right I'm trying to refresh your 11 recollection because she's wrong?

12 THE COURT: If there were to occur, 13 would that -- do you know anything about that?

14 A. I don't remember the post, Your 15 Honor, but I can tell you that the L M T 16 opened its doors for business on January 6th, 17 2000, the day after the building closed. If I 18 did a post only Internet say that go people 19 could reach me at Mr. Dandar's office, it was 20 because we didn't have anyplace else for 21 people to call until we had our building.

22 Q. Okay. So you remember dish?

23 A. But we were not open for business 24 until we had our building and we were 25 operating at 33 north for the hair son.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

52 1 Q. I see. So the answer to your 2 question was then because you didn't consider 3 you were open for business when you posted to 4 the world that L M T could be reached at 5 Mr. Dandar's office?

6 A. I'd have to see the post.

7 Q. Just tell me that without seeing the 8 post.

9 MR. MERRIT: Rhyme going to object to 10 the.

11 THE COURT: She said she has to see the 12 post. Show her the post and then ask the 13 question.

14 Q. This is a post you made on 8th of 15 November, 1999, which says and I quote and 16 I'll hand it to you, Bob had to get back to 17 New Hampshire so after lunch with Ken Dandar I 18 took him to the airport mid afternoon I spent 19 that afternoon at Ken's office speaking by 20 phone to the OERNZ of several other buildings 21 in downtown Clearwater in getting some 22 business done as we had agreed that until the 23 Lisa McPherson trust secures our own office 24 space, we will set up temporarily quarters in 25 did he know Ken's office. Does that refresh

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

53 1 your recollection that you had set up L M T 2 temporarily in Ken Dandar's office?

3 A. I remember this post.

4 Q. Can you answer my question?

5 MR. MERRIT: I'm going to object 6 she's looking at the post. I'd ask that 7 counsel be instructed not to bully her and not 8 to PROO*I try to prevent her from dog what the 9 court said she can do.

10 THE COURT: Well I don't think he's 11 bullying her so I'm not going to make that 12 instruction.

13 A. I do remember this post now.

14 Q. My question is?

15 THE COURT: Wait just a minute. Let 16 America anxious the question much she's 17 inspecting this you're asking about her 18 recollection.

19 A. It was a post about the fact that 20 scientology was intimidating all of the people 21 who owned build energies Clearwater not to 22 lease us any office space and explaining to 23 people that we were having trouble finding 24 anyplace in Clearwater that would lease to us 25 because people were afraid of being harassed

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

54 1 by scientology. Scientology had threatened to 2 -- 3 THE COURT: That goes beyond the 4 question the question is do you recall that 5 excerpt which he's read to you which is 6 highlighted in yellow.

7 A. Yes, I do. So this happened, Ken 8 Dandar very nicely offered to let me use a 9 phone in his office until we could find 10 another place. And so I did post opt Internet 11 that people could reach me there until we were 12 able to get a building.

13 MR. MERRIT: I'd ask that that be 14 marked and made a part of the record.

15 THE COURT: It will. Mark it, please.

16 MR. MOXON: What's the.

17 MR. MERRIT: What's the Exhibit No.

18 Please? 67896.

19 Q. You worked out of Ken Dandar's office 20 until you open the building?

21 A. Not real.

22 Q. That you but the in Clearwater?

23 A. Not real.

24 Q. You department have any other office 25 between this time that you started working at

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

55 1 Ken Dandar's office as you said nicely OUFRD 2 space and the time that you opened your 3 building right?

4 A. Well, in fact, I did post that, but 5 basically all it amounted to was that they 6 would take messages if anybody called, but I 7 was busy moving to Clearwater.

8 Q. Who -- 9 A. I wasn't spending any dime at den Ken 10 Dandar's office.

11 Q. Who was taking messages for you at 12 Mr. Dandar's office?

13 A. I asked his secretary if somebody 14 called more for me if she'd take a message for 15 you.

16 Q. Well the truth is nobody ever really 17 called there, so there really wasn't much to 18 do but I I did think it would be nice to let 19 people know on the Internet that if they 20 WHANTD to reached me 67891234 I wonder if 21 counsel can let us in on the witness he's 22 grining at the witness I see making faces at 23 her?

24 THE COURT: Don't use any 25 expressions, please. And tone down your

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

56 1 objections, if you would, please, Mr. Merit.

2 MR. MERRIT: Yes, sir. That's right, 3 this is in the record.

4 Q. Did your attorney make you aware of the 5 order that was issued by judge MUD I in July 6 requiring production of the videotapes and 7 statements?

8 A. In July?

9 Q. There was an order on July 18th that 10 required production no later on August 1st, 11 did your attorney make you aware of that 12 order?

13 A. Of what year are we speaking?

14 Q. 2000.

15 A. I'm sure my attorney did if there was 16 an order.

17 Q. Did you collect up all of the 18 documents and videos at that time for 19 production?

20 A. I'm sure I did. I don't remember 21 exactly what happened. It was.

22 Q. Okay?

23 A. A year ago.

24 Q. Did you keep all of the videos that 25 existed at L M T segregated on July 18th or

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

57 1 thereafter for production to the defendants?

2 A. No.

3 Q. Now, you haven't produced anything 4 out of your computers today; is that correct?

5 A. Correct.

6 Q. So you've produced no e-mails by any 7 person out of your -- out of any of the L M T 8 computers; is that correct?

9 A. That's correct. And if I could 10 explain y-Your Honor.

11 THE COURT: Go ahead.

12 A. The order says the court clarifies 13 the term witness and limits the scope of 14 discover toy persons who have any facts 15 directly or indirectly about how this case 16 arose out of incident occurring with respect 17 to Lisa McPherson. We don't have any e-mails 18 dealing with anyone related to this case 19 because the work the Lisa McPherson trust has 20 nothing to do with this case.

21 Q. So there are no e-mails or statements 22 by you; is that correct 23 A. That's correct.

24 Q. You didn't consider yourself to be a 25 witness?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

58 1 A. No.

2 Q. Okay. How about Dell Lee brick, did 3 you consider her to be a witness?

4 A. But let me just clarify again.

5 Limits the scope of discover toy persons who 6 have any facts directly or indirectly about 7 how this case arose out of the incident occur 8 WG respect to Lisa McPherson. I don't have 9 any facts directly or indirectly about how 10 this case arows out of the incident.

11 Q. I'll repeat the question. Did you 12 consider Dell Lee brick to be a witness?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. You have no e-mails to produce from 15 her right?

16 A. No, I don't.

17 Q. She has sent e-mails to you, right?

18 A. If I've gotten any e-mail from Dell 19 Lee brick, it has to have been at least -- 20 honestly I don't remember ever getting an 21 e-mail from Dell Lee brick.

22 Q. Yeah. How about Ann Carlson did you 23 consider her to be a witness?

24 A. I'd have to look at the witness list.

25 Do you have the witness list?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

59 1 Q. You don't know whether she's a 2 witness or not?

3 A. I don't really recall much I'd have 4 to look at the list.

5 Q. So was it the witness list you 6 determined to determine who is and who isn't a 7 witness?

8 A. Among other things, yes.

9 Q. Okay. What other things?

10 A. The judge's order.

11 Q. On top of the witness list did you 12 determine to who is or isn't a witness?

13 A. The judge's order.

14 Q. Okay how about mark bunk either, did 15 you produce -- did you search all of the 16 computers and e-mails and all other records 17 for every statement by mark bunk either?

18 A. No.

19 Q. How about Jeff Jacob son?

20 A. No.

21 Q. JAIR JAIR I had Armstrong?

22 A. No.

23 Q. You don't consider bunk either Jacob 24 son and Armstrong to be witnesses?

25 A. Armstrong, I don't have anything

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

60 1 about Armstrong.

2 Q. How about bunk SKPER Jacob son, do 3 you consider them to be witnesses?

4 A. No. Not PERT definition of the 5 judge's order.

6 Q. How about Theresa summers, do you -- 7 did you search all of the computer records for 8 all of her e-mail and written statements?

9 A. Yes, I should back up here for just a 10 minute. First of all, the computers were 11 searched and I did not find any e-mail or 12 other documents on the computers that were 13 responsive to the judge's order.

14 Q. Miss Brooks here's my question. Did 15 you search all of the computers all of the 16 e-mail and all of the computers and all of the 17 paper records to find statements by Theresa 18 summers?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. You found not a single thing she 21 wrote in any fashion that concerned the case, 22 Lisa McPherson, the church of scientology or 23 any scientologist; is that correct?

24 A. I just think I need to clarify this 25 again.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

61 1 MR. MERRIT: I'd just like to inter 2 pose an objection and ask that counsel read to 3 us the demand on which that question is based 4 or if he's asking whether she made searches 5 beyond the demands that scientology made.

6 MR. MOXON: I'm not going to get into an 7 argument with you Mr. Mayor it let me ask the 8 question.

9 MR. MERRIT: Actually I was speaking to 10 the judge.

11 Q. I'll reask the question?

12 THE COURT: Are you withdraw that go 13 question 12346789 yeah, I'll be draw the 14 question.

15 Q. Did you make any search into your 16 computer records and hard paper records to 17 find if there are any statements by Theresa 18 summers which concern scientology, Lisa 19 McPherson, this lawsuit, or scientologists?

20 MR. MERRIT: Same objection.

21 THE COURT: Overruled.

22 A. If I could just clarify.

23 Q. Just yes or no I did CHLTD I did do 24 that, but again, I also based my search on the 25 judge's order. And the judge's order limits

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

62 1 the scope of discovery to persons who have any 2 facts directly or indirectly about how this 3 case arose out of the incident occurring with 4 respect to Lisa McPherson?

5 Q. So -- 6 A. And although you have added people to 7 the witness list, that doesn't necessarily 8 mean that they fall within the scope of point 9 number seven of his order.

10 Q. I see. And when was the last time 11 people were added to a witness list?

12 A. I don't know when you added them.

13 But I know you added them so you could depose 14 them as witnesses.

15 Q. You do.

16 A. Because I know that you know that 17 they don't have any knowledge about the Lisa 18 McPherson case.

19 Q. I'll move to strike?

20 THE COURT: Sustained. It's 21 stricken.

22 Q. You're not aware of any addition to 23 the witness list after May of 2000, are you?

24 A. No.

25 Q. How about Marie apee aGAR dean YUSH

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

63 1 did you consider her to be a witness for the 2 purposes of your document production?

3 A. No.

4 Q. How about yourself will you cab BERN 5 adid you consider her to be a witness for the 6 purposes of your document production?

7 MR. MERRIT: You can go ahead and 8 answer you don't have to wait for them to 9 confer.

10 A. No, I don't believe they're on the 11 witness list.

12 Q. How about car STON LOR Ren son did 13 you consider him to be a witness for the 14 purposes of your productions?

15 A. He may be a witness, I have no 16 documents whatsoever concerning Carson LOR Ren 17 son.

18 Q. You SERMGD your entire all your paper 19 files?

20 A. .

21 Q. And all your computers for car STON 22 LOR Ren son?

23 A. Well, I searched my files for 24 everything that we had and we don't have 25 anything about him at all.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

64 1 Q. You searched for everybody on the 2 witness list?

3 A. Yes.

4 A. Who was a witness according to the 5 judge's order.

6 Q. Okay. How about Mr. Alexander, did 7 you produce every single document concerning 8 document or magnetic or digital or computer 9 recording of a statement by Mr. Alexander 10 about scientology or Lisa McPherson or the 11 church?

12 A. Yes. I don't have anything 13 concerning Mr. Alexander at all.

14 Q. You don't have anything about Mr. Al 15 distant either at all?

16 A. No.

17 MR. MERRIT: Objection asked and 18 answered much it's argumentative.

19 THE COURT: Overruled.

20 Q. You have no -- you've got no -- you've 21 never had any communications with Mr. Al ZAND 22 neither writing or over the inter net?

23 A. The only thing I ever remember seeing 24 in writing from Mr. Alexander was on the news 25 group, but I don't keep the news group.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

65 1 Q. Okay. Just to clarify then. Your 2 testimony is you've never had any 3 communications with Mr. Alexander in writing?

4 A. Not that I recall. If I've ever had 5 e-mails from him, it's not been for a very 6 long time.

7 MR. MERRIT: Judge, we've gone over 8 an hour I wonder if we can take a comfort 9 break.

10 THE COURT: Okay. Take a ten-minute 11 break.

12 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're off the video 13 record.

14 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're on the video 15 record.

16 A. Your Honor, I wonder if I might just to 17 through the list of the production request and 18 just state -- I mean I think it would make it 19 go a lot faster if I can just state for the 20 record what -- what I've done on each one of 21 the document requests.

22 THE COURT: It sounds like a good 23 idea but it's up to him.

24 Q. I'd rather do it my way if we could.

25 A. Well, then maybe I can just state for

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

66 1 the record that I have gone through all of the 2 materials at the Lisa McPherson trust and I've 3 produced everything there is to be produced.

4 Q. That you consider responsive?

5 A. Well, there are no e-mails. We have 6 a policy about our e-mail, we don't keep it.

7 I have another declaration that I brought 8 regarding judge, your order about record 9 retention, which I could read for the record 10 if you'd like me to. But I just think that 11 rather than go through a very long list of 12 specific names, I could tell you what I have 13 done and what there is and it would speed 14 things up.

15 THE COURT: Let me explain this to 16 you much whoever takes the deposition has the 17 right to conduct the deposition in any form he 18 wants or she wants, providing it's done within 19 the rules.

20 My function here is to make sure that 21 it's done properly and to resolve any 22 objections that come up. What he does may be 23 a bit tedious and not make a lot of sense to 24 you, the WNGS, but that's the way he handled 25 it, your lawyer may do it a different way.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

67 1 Every lawyer in this room conducts themselves 2 on depositions differently. They have their 3 own different style that they use. I may not 4 agree with the style, but as long as it's 5 within the rules I have to let them do that.

6 A. Okay. I'm just trying to speed 7 things up, Your Honor.

8 THE COURT: Well we don't always do 9 things that make a lost sense to lay people 10 that but that's the way we do it.

11 A. Okay.

12 Q. Just to clarify one point you've 13 mentioned here. Since May of 2000, you 14 periodically destroyed all e-mails to and from 15 Mr. Prisons yourself Mr. Minton Mr. Jacob son 16 Mr. Bunk either and miss summers that came in 17 to L M T computers?

18 A. Correct.

19 Q. You also did that since July 20 obviously, right?

21 A. As I said, we have a policy that we 22 do not retain records.

23 Q. Yes? Okay. The anxious is yes?

24 Destroyed everything from May to the present 25 and you did it periodically?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

68 1 A. Yes. Shall I read my declaration 2 into the record about it.

3 Q. No but you can hand it to me if you 4 want.

5 A. Well I'd like to read it into the 6 record.

7 MR. MERRIT: Well gentlemen just need 8 to get it MASHLGD, you go ahead and give it to 9 him.

10 MR. MERRIT: Judge can we go ahead and 11 get it marked?

12 THE COURT: Well, I don't know what he's 13 wants to autos it for.

14 Q. Let me take a look at it. Now, the 15 THE COURT : If it's going to be used 16 for the DPOSHGS yes, if it's just wants to 17 inspect it, it's not a part of the record, 18 then no.

19 MR. MERRIT: Well, she's brought it in 20 response to you said on my accounting.

21 THE COURT: Well you're asking him to 22 mark it.

23 Q. Now, we were going through a list of 24 people for whom you conducted searches much 25 did you conducted a search for every

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

69 1 communication with Steven Kent? Every 2 statement by Steven Kent, every video of 3 Steven Kent?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. You did? Please produce to me what 6 you found.

7 A. I do not have any video record of 8 Stephen KENLT other than what may be on the 9 website which was produced in the CD that I 10 gave you. I don't have any other statements 11 by Steven Kent.

12 Q. No financial records relating to 13 Steven Kent?

14 A. No.

15 Q. You've never paid any money to Steven 16 kept?

17 A. No, I never have.

18 Q. Have you paid any money -- has L M T 19 paid any money to Steven Kent on behalf of his 20 university?

21 A. The L M T did make a university to 22 the university where Kent works.

23 Q. What was that?

24 A. But it wasn't a check to Steven Kent.

25 Q. When was that?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

70 1 A. I don't remember. Possibly a year 2 ago.

3 Q. But we didn't -- we have no financial 4 records regarding Steven Kent.

5 Q. How much was the donation you made to 6 the university where Mr. KENLT works?

7 A. I don't recall. I don't recall.

8 Q. Do you know him to be an expert 9 witness hired by Mr. Dandar for this case, 10 right?

11 A. I didn't know that.

12 Q. You never heard that? That he was 13 hired by Mr. Dandar?

14 A. I don't believe so.

15 Q. And how much money approximately did 16 you give the university -- the university 17 Albert athis is?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. How much money?

20 A. I don't recall exactly. It was 21 perhaps approximately $5,000. Perhaps 6,000, 22 I don't recall.

23 Q. And you MA*ED have you made donations 24 to any other universities?

25 A. No.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

71 1 Q. Did you accepted that donation to 2 Mr. Kent for relay to the university?

3 A. .

4 Q. Who did you send it to?

5 A. Someone in the administrative office 6 of the university.

7 Q. Who?

8 A. I don't remember the name.

9 Q. What office?

10 A. I don't recall.

11 Q. But you've got a financial record of 12 it obviously?

13 A. I have a -- I have -- I would have a 14 record of the check.

15 Q. You talked to Mr. Kent about this 16 donation, right?

17 A. I did.

18 Q. Before you sent it?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. What about Hanna Whitfield did you 21 search all your records, records computers 22 e-mails?

23 A. Yes.

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. For all by man aWhitfield?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

72 1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Do you have anything to produce?

3 A. I don't.

4 Q. You've had e-mails with Hanna 5 Whitfield haven't SNUFRNLG I don't believe 6 I've ever had an ECHLTD mail with Hanna?

7 Q. You've talked to her?

8 A. Yes. I believe the last time I spoke 9 to her may have been at a conference last 10 year.

11 Q. You had a conference with her 12 concerning this case?

13 A. No no. At the -- there was a 14 conference in Seattle.

15 Q. Do you have any statements by miss 16 Whitfield?

17 A. No.

18 Q. Did you assist her at all to do the 19 declaration she filed yet yesterday for 20 Mr. Dandar?

21 A. I had no idea she had done that. No, 22 I didn't.

23 Q. You didn't know she was hired as an 24 expert witness for Mr. Dandar?

25 A. Would it be possible for me to get

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

73 1 copies of the witness list?

2 Q. I'm just asking you much did you know 3 that she was hired as an expert witness by 4 Mr. Dandar?

5 A. I wasn't. I mean I didn't. No, 6 sorry.

7 Q. You haven't spoken to her in the last 8 year?

9 A. As I said, I believe the last time we 10 spoke was at a conference. Perhaps it was a 11 less list than a year ago.

12 Q. Know Jessie has been working with 13 they are LO*E though right?

14 A. Yes, sir any.

15 Q. Jessie prisons.

16 A. Not that I know of.

17 Q. Did you conduct any search for 18 records in May of 2000 responsive to judge 19 moody's order? Of May 15 SNJ 2000?

20 A. I'm sure I did.

21 Q. Did you make any record of it?

22 A. No.

23 Q. Did you discuss the search you had 24 done with Mr. Minton before his deposition as 25 the L M T corp receipt representative?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

74 1 A. Probably.

2 Q. ?

3 MR. MERRIT: Excuse me judge ask I 4 reach across you here? Thank you.

5 Q. You no, miss summers's files of 6 statements that she has made to government 7 agencies were shredded; is that correct?

8 A. That's incorrect. They've been DIJ 9 TIEFD. They all exist in digital form.

10 Q. So they were scanned and then they 11 were -- were the original papers shred SND?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. When were they shredded?

14 A. It's, as I said in my declaration, 15 which I believe you just read, it's done on a 16 regular basis. We -- our policy is to keep 17 digital records.

18 Q. Not paper records?

19 A. Correct.

20 Q. So the 120 boxes of paper records 21 that Mr. Minton described in May, have those 22 all been scanned?

23 A. No. But that again is also covered 24 specifically in my declaration.

25 Q. Miss Brooks if you could just answer

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

75 1 my question?

2 A. Okay.

3 Q. Were the 120 boxes that Mr. Minton 4 described in May, have they all DN scanned in 5 and digital?

6 A. No not awful them much not awful 7 them, but those documents are pamphlets, 8 books, other documents of that sort which none 9 of which have ever been -- were ever created 10 by anybody having anything to do with the Lisa 11 McPherson trust or this current lawsuit or, I 12 mean, those are library materials, that's a 13 very separate thing.

14 They aren't anything to do with the 15 Lisa McPherson trust.

16 Q. Is there a lot of materials published 17 by the churches of scientology?

18 A. Some of them r-yes.

19 Q. And those are the things -- miss 20 summers said a lot of that material of 21 shredded recently.

22 A. Well, we got a threat eastbound 23 evening letter from one of your attorneys, 24 sandy Rosen, which I took to -- to be a 25 precursor to a potential writ of seizure that

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

76 1 you might try to get on the L M T and so I 2 directed everybody in the office to make sure 3 that we didn't have any photocopies of any 4 copy righted materials of scientology because 5 his letter was all about putting me on notice 6 that we were going to be held under this 7 earlier injunction about copyright, so I did 8 have a lot of -- and you know, there were 9 copies of scientology directives, basically 10 copies of scientology directives in the office 11 and I did direct that the staff destroy all of 12 those copies pursuant to sandy Rosen's letter.

13 Q. Was that the stuff you took to the 14 shreding company?

15 A. Well, actually, we had somebody come 16 and some of that -- I mean, the shreding 17 company didn't shred all of it, we shredded 18 quite a bit of it, but the shreding company 19 SLEFTD the last of it.

20 Q. How much did the shreding company 21 shred by volume?

22 A. Probably less than a banker box full.

23 Q. How much did you all shred?

24 A. Probably about the same.

25 Q. And you shredded nothing else other

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

77 1 than copies of -- 2 A. Well, that was -- that was why we 3 needed the shreding company.

4 Q. You shreding nothing else other than 5 copies, photocopies of copy righted materials?

6 A. Correct.

7 Q. Did you digital lies those also?

8 A. No.

9 Q. You didn't scan them first before you 10 shredded them?

11 A. No, because we already have those 12 materials in the library.

13 Q. In digital form?

14 A. No. In paper form.

15 Q. Did you make copies of anything?

16 A. No.

17 Q. What records have been sent up to 18 Mr. Minton? What L M T records?

19 A. The digital records of the files of 20 the people that we've helped.

21 Q. Mr. Minton has miss summers records?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Okay. And you've destroyed all of 24 they are hard copies?

25 A. Correct.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

78 1 Q. Right?

2 Did you keep a digital copy of all 3 miss summers records?

4 A. No.

5 Q. You sent them all to Mr. Minton?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Why?

8 A. We do it as a regular policy. Do you 9 want me to tell you why?

10 Q. When did you do this?

11 A. .

12 MR. MERRIT: I'll object it's asked 13 and answered much she just said it's done as a 14 regular policy.

15 Q. When did you do it?

16 THE COURT: The last time on this 17 question.

18 A. It's done as a regular policy.

19 Sometimes daily. I'm not sure when the last 20 time anything was sent to him, but it's done 21 regularly.

22 Q. Does Mr. Minton have financial 23 records also?

24 A. No. Not that I know of.

25 Q. Of L M T?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

79 1 A. No.

2 Q. Does he have e-mails of L M T or any 3 other -- anything other than miss summers 4 files?

5 A. No. No.

6 Q. So you don't have any of the 7 complaint letters that miss summers sent to 8 the attorney general's offices or the police 9 or any of the other ATHSZ, the better business 10 bureau; is that correct?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. You do have them?

13 A. That's correct, that we do not.

14 Q. It's correct do you not and then 15 where are they now?

16 A. Mr. Minton has the digital records.

17 Q. Did you ask him to provide them to 18 you so you could produce the statements that 19 miss summers has made to the B B B and to the 20 police and to the attorney general's office or 21 the IRS?

22 A. No.

23 Q. Those concern complaints regarding 24 some church of scientology, right? Alleged 25 activities of some church of scientology or

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

80 1 alleged failure of some church of scientology 2 to do something?

3 MR. MERRIT: I'm going to object to 4 the relevance that wasn't included WNT command 5 it it's not included westbound the court's 6 order.

7 THE COURT: Overruled.

8 A. These records are not statements by miss 9 summers these records are not statements by 10 anyone whose been named as a witness or who 11 has anything to do with this case whatsoever, 12 Your Honor.

13 THE COURT: Okay.

14 Q. That's the DROUBL we have a speaking 15 objection like that that coaches the WNGS and 16 then she doesn't answer my question?

17 THE COURT: All right much restate 18 the question, please.

19 MR. MOXON:

20 Q. Miss Brooks, there were a number of 21 letters sent by Theresa summers to the better 22 business bureau and to the attorney general's 23 office, correct?

24 A. The letters were not sent by miss 25 summers.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

81 1 Q. Okay. So miss summers sent nothing 2 then to the better business bureau, she sent 3 no letters to them right is that what you're 4 saying no that I know of?

5 Q. And she sent no letters to the 6 attorney general's office?

7 A. Not that I know of.

8 Q. She sent no letters to the ICHLTD 9 R/S?

10 A. No.

11 Q. Okay. She sent no letters to the 12 police?

13 A. I believe she -- I believe she did 14 forward some information to a law enforcement 15 agency.

16 Q. She sent no letters to the police?

17 A. Not that I know of.

18 Q. Okay and asked her whether or not she 19 had done anything like that, right?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Okay much she said no, that it never 22 happened?

23 A. That's not what she said.

24 Q. Did she say that it never happened, 25 she had never done that?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

82 1 A. No.

2 Q. Okay. Did she ever send any letters 3 to any of those agencies or not?

4 MR. MERRIT: I'll object it's asked 5 and answered.

6 THE COURT: Do you know of your own 7 knowledge whether she did.

8 A. No, I don't.

9 Q. Okay.

10 A. I don't.

11 Q. Did you ask miss summers if she had 12 sent any letters to the B B B or to the 13 attorney general's office or to the IRS or to 14 any police agency?

15 MR. MERRIT: I'll object for 16 relevance.

17 A. May I tell you what I did ask her.

18 Q. No.

19 THE COURT: No just answer with a yes 20 or no or if you did she accepted those letters 21 to the people he named?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. What did she say?

24 A. She said that she did not send any 25 letters nor did she have any knowledge of any

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

83 1 letters concerning any witnesses in this case.

2 Q. That's not what I asked you.

3 A. You asked me what she said.

4 Q. Okay?

5 A. And that's what she said.

6 Q. And then you walked away? You asked 7 neither nothing else?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Did you ask her if she, Theresa 10 summers, had sent or forwarded any information 11 with any sort of a cover letter or some other 12 means to any B B B, attorney general office, 13 IRS or any police agency?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. What did she say?

16 A. She said yes.

17 Q. She had done that?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Did you acquire those documents?

20 A. No.

21 Q. Those documents exist?

22 A. Those documents are privileged.

23 Q. Those documents exist?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. And they're -- where are they?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

84 1 A. They're in digital form with access 2 only by miss summers.

3 Q. Now I'm excluding anything about this 4 -- this alleged sex offend either complaint 5 that she send about Marcus car reason owe's 6 father that was dismissed?

7 A. Okay.

8 MR. MERRIT: I'll object SPOEND PT.

9 MR. MOXON: Let me finish my question.

10 MR. MERRIT: Regarding any report of 11 sexual abuse.

12 Q. I said I'm excluding that. Excluding 13 that, those documents are in digital form in 14 your computer system?

15 A. Excluding that then which documents 16 do you mean.

17 Q. Excluding the one allegation that she 18 made about Marcus car reason owe 20 -- 19 20-year-old allegation about Marcus car reason 20 owe's father that was dismissed, excluding 21 anything about?

22 A. Okay. Well.

23 Q. Are these other -- the other letters 24 that you identified to B B B, to IRS, to 25 police agencies, to attorney general's office,

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

85 1 those are all in digital form in your 2 computers accessible only by miss summers?

3 A. Yes. However, I just need to clarify 4 one thing that you said. Miss summers didn't 5 make any allegations about anyone.

6 Q. Okay. Now, 1997 was when was when 7 you were first hired by Mr. Dandar, correct?

8 A. I believe so.

9 Q. And that's when he -- he gave a check 10 to either you or to your husband as a expert?

11 A. No. As a consultant, as I recall.

12 Q. Okay was that to you or to VON young?

13 MR. MERRIT: I'll object it's SKRD 14 and answered Your Honor this exact colloquy 15 was done over page after page after page in 16 the first part of her deposition last year.

17 She's already answered all these questions.

18 THE COURT: Have you got the deposition?

19 MR. MERRIT: I think we do.

20 MR. MOXON: Your Honor, I object to 21 sitting here reading through the deposition 22 but.

23 THE COURT: Well if it's been covered, 24 let's don't cover it again.

25 MR. MOXON: Well, we can waste time

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

86 1 reading through all ZBLSH.

2 THE COURT: I mean if you agree it's been 3 covered #CHLTD it's not been covered there 4 were a lot questions I asked and she you 5 refused to anxious and judge questions KAUD 6 aanswered.

7 THE COURT: Well NOIF way of knowing 8 what's been asked and what's not been asked so 9 the only way to do it is to look at the record 10 because there's a dispute between the two of 11 you what the record says; is that correct?

12 MR. MOXON: Well, okay. I mean he says 13 it's been covered say it hasn't. So I don't 14 know because I wasn't there.

15 MR. MOXON: Well, I can tell you I've 16 tried to cover generally some of the stuff in 17 this area she refused to answer many of the 18 questions she was order Todd and she was SANGS 19 SANGS D.

20 THE COURT: The bet record is the record 21 itself; is that correct.

22 MR. MOXON: Do you have the order.

23 MR. MERRIT: Judge I'm reading here from 24 the page of 25 of miss Brooks's deposition of 25 June 23rd, 20006789 can I have one.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

87 1 MR. MERRIT: Question purported SCOMBERT 2 for this case.

3 THE COURT: Hold him just let him make 4 his objection.

5 MR. MERRIT: I'm sorry what's his 6 objection?

7 THE COURT: The objection is he hasn't 8 asked the question much your objection is it's 9 repetitious. I say it's faster to let him ask 10 the question get aim SANGS back TH*EN than 11 mess around like we're doing but if you want 12 to insist opt objection we're going to resolve 13 it.

14 MR. MERRIT: I mean judge it's his time I 15 don't wants the witness to be called up 16 because Mr. MOCHL on is eating up the day 17 replaying old ground ZBLFRNLTHSD well we'll 18 finish this laid toy night.

19 Q. Was the check that Mr. Dandar gave you 20 for your work or for Vaughn young's work? In 21 1997?

22 A. Well, at that time, Vaughn and I 23 worked together.

24 Q. It was for both of you then?

25 A. Well, as I recall, the check was to

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

88 1 Vaughn. I agreed to have -- to allow 2 Mr. Dandar to file perhaps two possibly three 3 decorations.

4 Q. I November to strike it's a simple 5 question. Was the check for you or for Vaughn 6 or for both of you?

7 MR. MERRIT: I'll object to that one 8 as being asked and answered just now 9 ZBLFRNLTHSD it was.

10 MR. MERRIT: Another question?

11 Q. Was it?

12 THE COURT: She's answered the 13 question.

14 Q. Was any of the check for you? From 15 Mr. Dandar in 1997 for your work?

16 A. Very little, but as I said, it was 17 for both of us.

18 Q. Okay. You didn't receive any money 19 from Mr. Dandar from Mr. Dandar's office after 20 that one check in 1997; is that right?

21 A. Your Honor I need to clarify 22 something, please.

23 THE COURT: Okay.

24 A. I would prefer to have the L M T 25 deposition completed and then get into my

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

89 1 personal deposition. I'd prefer not to have 2 them combined. If we're going to start 3 getting into my personal deposition, then I 4 would like to ask that Mr. Moxon finish the 5 deposition of me as a corporate representative 6 much L M T and then begin the deposition of me 7 personally as a separate deposition, please.

8 MR. MOXON: It's almost impossible to 9 differentiate them.

10 THE COURT: Yeah, I was going to say 11 because of your involvement with the L M T and 12 you're the president and apparently were there 13 from the beginning, close to the beginning, 14 TDZ hard to distinguish your corporate 15 activity and your personal activity.

16 A. Well.

17 MR. MERRIT: Judge, if I could be 18 heard, the question he just asked was whether 19 she personally has to do with personal receipt 20 of moneys in 1997 two or three years before 21 the L M T was formed. That one is not real 22 tough to figure out of that's her personally.

23 The questions that I expect will come next 24 based on his reasking the questions from the 25 deposition last June are questions about what

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

90 1 she's previously done for a living, where her 2 income comes from, where she banks, what RER 3 her relationship with Mr. Minton; all of those 4 things which are personal and what I'm asking 5 is this, there are very different issues that 6 apply to the two and the -- I can assure you 7 that things will go much quicker and more 8 smoothly if they are required to complete one 9 before beginning the other, otherwise it's 10 going to be a train wreck.

11 THE COURT: Well, I think he's -- it's a 12 reasonable Q if we can separate the questions 13 between the corporate and personal, we should 14 do it that way #CHLTD okay like I say.

15 THE COURT: If you're asking questions 16 about her activities with Mr. Dandar and 17 Mr. Minton prior to the formation of the 18 corporation, then those should be directed as 19 a part of her personal inquiry.

20 MR. MOXON: Again it's almost impossible 21 to differentiate them because it BLEPD D into 22 L M T.

23 THE COURT: Well I understand that.

24 MR. MOXON: I'll do that as well as I 25 can.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

91 1 THE COURT: If they engaged in any 2 activities prior to the formation of the 3 corporation to assist in the formation of the 4 corporation, then I think that's fair game as 5 far as corporate questions are concerned.

6 MR. MOXON: Particularly since Mr. Dandar 7 made a deal prior to the formation of the 8 corporation that led up to the corporation, 9 according to the fund GZ by judge KEZ KAUD 10 SAUD ain work with the plaintiff and working 11 with Mr. Minton in FORMG the corporation for 12 the purpose of receiving the assess in this 13 case.

14 MR. DANDAR: That's all FAULSZ much it's 15 falls.

16 THE COURT: That doesn't fall within her 17 corporate activities unless she was a part of 18 that activity.

19 MR. MOXON: Okay. Well I'll 20 differentiate them as well as I can but this 21 is all preliminary to other areas and we need 22 to go through this chronology we're getting up 23 into her FOO*IM time where she was formally of 24 accepted all of the stock. L M T but during 25 that.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

92 1 THE COURT: Well, the deal is insofar as 2 your corporate ininquire RISH you're you limit 3 it to her activities prior to the formation of 4 the corporation that had anything to do with 5 the formation of the corporation and her 6 activities subsequent to the formation of the 7 corporation while she's been with the 8 corporation.

9 MR. MOXON: Okay.

10 Q. So you can consider this a personal 11 question then?

12 THE COURT: Well are we going to just 13 blend the two two or are we complete one and 14 start another one? I'm not sure how that.

15 MR. MOXON: No we're not.

16 THE COURT: Nobody has told me that.

17 MR. MOXON: Well, we're just trying to 18 create confusion here with Mr. Mayor it trying 19 to cut me off in the middle of it 20 THE COURT : Well don't wore by that just 21 answer my question.

22 MR. MOXON: Well my question is yeah, if 23 we want to consider this to be a personal 24 question as to her we can consider that I'm 25 asking personal questions now much however, in

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

93 1 my view, they also are inex trick BLI inTWIEND 2 with whatever position she has now as holding 3 all of the stock for the assets of this case 4 during the time period she's working, what she 5 claims it's just personally when she's working 6 with Mr. Dandar as a consultant and 7 representative and being paid by somebody and 8 then she blends into having a -- an interest 9 in the outcome of this case.

10 MR. MERRIT: J- I guess the first 11 question would be whether she has an interest 12 until the outcome of the case and that might 13 save a lost time but secondarily we could have 14 produced anybody we wanted as to corporate 15 leapt rent live active of the L M T and that 16 would mean she would not have to sit next to 17 that question and answer question during her 18 personal life during that deposition and I 19 assure you there is going to be a train wreck 20 and we're going to be here for ever many 21 Mr. Moxon insists on blending these two 22 inquiries together.

23 THE COURT : Okay. Well, I've already 24 ruled on that. To the extent you can, keep 25 her personal questions separate from these and

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

94 1 then when you feel you've completed your 2 ininquire require of her on the corporate 3 business then we'll get into personal business 4 much I'll have to determine, subject to 5 objections, whether or not the question is 6 solely a personal question or solely a 7 corporate question.

8 MR. MOXON: Okay. Well, all right.

9 We'll do that and I'll try not to blend them 10 TOSHTH however I am not -- I have some 11 questions that we can consider personal if you 12 wish, but I'm not finished with the corporate 13 aspect of is it yet because I need this 14 information.

15 THE COURT: Okay let's get.

16 MR. MOXON: These were ordered for her to 17 answer a long long time ago and DEVENTD LI go 18 to this. ? Can we take a quick break before 19 we hold other breath.

20 MR. MOXON: No we just took another break 21 let's keep going.

22 THE COURT: Why do we need to take 23 another break?

24 MR. MERRIT: Because I have to urinate, 25 Your Honor.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

95 1 THE COURT: Okay. Let's go ahead and 2 take a ten-minute break.

3 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're off the video 4 record.

5 (Discussion off the record.)

6 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Are we ready? We're 7 back on the video record.

8 MR. MOXON:

9 Q. I'm going to try to KEECH this as much as 10 possible to the L M T aspect of it first. Do 11 you know ray EM ENZ is?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. He's a private investigator whose 14 worked for Mr. Dan Dan; is that correct?

15 A. Has he works for Mr. Dandar? I'm not 16 sure.

17 Q. Okay much you don't know that he's 18 served subpoenas for Mr. Dandar and did 19 investigative work for Mr. Dandar?

20 A. No.

21 Q. Okay. Did L M T ever pay any money 22 to ray EM SNUFRNLTHSZ yes.

23 Q. Investigative work?

24 A. .

25 Q. For anything else?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

96 1 A. No.

2 Q. Do you know who Rick Spector is this?

3 A. I believe so.

4 Q. Has L M T PIED any money to Rick 5 Spector?

6 A. I don't think so.

7 Q. Okay. Do you know he's an 8 investigator also who works for Mr. Dandar?

9 A. Oh, I didn't know that.

10 Q. You're not aware of any payments to 11 Rick Spector?

12 A. I -- I -- no. I thought he was a 13 videographer.

14 Q. Now, Mr. Jacob son maintains a 15 website called the Lisa McPherson page; is 16 that right?

17 A. No.

18 Q. Do you know?

19 Mr. Jacob son post autopsy photos of 20 Lisa on your website?

21 A. No.

22 Q. Do you have autopsy photos of Lisa 23 McPherson on your website?

24 A. I don't think so.

25 Q. Do you know if L M T purchased

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

97 1 autopsy photos of Lisa McPherson in the 2 medical examine SNEFRMTHS yes.

3 Q. Did L M T also purchase files from 4 the police department concerning the 5 investigation of Lisa McPherson?

6 A. I don't know, actually.

7 Q. Who are the signatories on the bank 8 accounts?

9 A. Me.

10 Q. Are there any other signatories?

11 A. No.

12 Q. Since May of 2000, have there been 13 any other signatories?

14 A. No.

15 Q. Not Bob Minton?

16 A. He may be a signatory, but he hasn't 17 signed any checks.

18 Q. Did the L M T purchase any public 19 records from the state attorney regarding Lisa 20 McPherson after the criminal case was 21 dismissed?

22 A. I don't know.

23 Q. Have documents concerning the civil 24 case or the prior criminal case been scanned 25 into your system?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

98 1 A. Not that I know of.

2 Q. Did you ask?

3 A. Did I ask if.

4 Q. Did you ask anyone? Did you ask Jeff 5 Jacob son if he scanned any documents 6 concerning this case into your computer files?

7 A. Well, I mean I looked. I don't know 8 if Jeff has done it person live, you know as 9 you mentioned Jeff has his own personal 10 website.

11 Q. So did you look through all of the 12 computer files and you didn't find any?

13 A. Correct.

14 Q. Documents concerning this case in 15 your file system?

16 A. KRE yes.

17 Q. ; is that correct?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Are you certain that there are no 20 documents concerning this case in the entirety 21 of L M T's file system or computers?

22 A. There are some documents in our legal 23 files. There are documents.

24 Q. So you have a legal file concerning 25 this case?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

99 1 A. Well, there are actually a number of 2 files that contained the subpoenas that we've 3 received, production requests.

4 Q. Other than ones direct -- to you 5 direct LIFRNLTHS yes.

6 Q. Do you have other files concerning 7 this case other than the ones directed to L M 8 T?

9 A. Yes. We have them directed at me, 10 mark bunk either, Jessie prisons, Bob Minton.

11 Q. Have you provided any records 12 concerning scientology policies or bulletins 13 or doctrines to Mr. Dandar? This is L M T 14 again?

15 A. Not that I know of.

16 Q. Mr. Dandar comes to your offices from 17 time to time, doesn't he?

18 A. Yes. The last time he was at our 19 office was -- I don't even remember when.

20 It's very infrequent.

21 Q. And when was the last time?

22 A. Perhaps some months ago. I don't.

23 Q. When?

24 A. Perhaps some months ago.

25 Q. Two months ago?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

100 1 A. Possibly. I mean, I really don't 2 know. I haven't seen him at our office in 3 quite sometime.

4 Q. Who in your office provides documents 5 to?

6 A. Ben is really trying to give you some 7 notes.

8 Q. Yeah, the note says yesterday someone 9 KA*U saw him walk to go your office yesterday.

10 Do you remember that?

11 A. I didn't see him there.

12 Q. Yeah CHLTD do you know whether or not 13 Mr. Dandar was in your office yesterday?

14 A. Well, he may have come while I was 15 gone much I was gone for about four hours.

16 Q. In fact you're gone over half the 17 time from your office haven't SNUFRNL I have 18 been lately gone quite sometime quite a bit 19 yes, but I think Ben probably knows if I was 20 there yesterday or not because they videotape 21 all O*UFR of OUFR KOMGZ and goes?

22 Q. All right. So given that assertion, 23 I can tell you that certainly Mr. Dandar has 24 been seen going into your office many many 25 times over the past couple of years?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

101 1 A. Well, you probably know better than I 2 do when Mr. Dandar has come to our office 3 Mr. Moxon.

4 Q. What has -- why ask Mr. Dandar come 5 to your offices? What's he there for?

6 A. Well, for example, if he came to the 7 office yesterday, I wasn't there, so I don't 8 know. I didn't know he had come.

9 Q. One time he and Mike, Michael GASHG 10 co, who is his trial consultant, were in 11 Clearwater and they stopped by to say hello.

12 He it hasn't been anything of particular 13 substance.

14 Q. Okay. So your testimony is 15 Mr. Dandar has never had any substantive 16 communications with anyone in your office?

17 A. No. That's not what I said.

18 Q. All right. Just so long as you're 19 there he has it, is that your testimony?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. And what document have been given to 22 Mr. Dandar for his use from L M T?

23 A. I don't know of any that KRAEB have 24 been given to him from the L M T.

25 Q. Do you know if any documents relating

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

102 1 to scientology in any fashion have been given 2 to Mr. Dandar from L M T files?

3 MR. MERRIT: I'll object it's asked 4 and answers erred.

5 THE COURT: Overruled.

6 A. I don't.

7 Q. Where do you get copies of the 8 depositions and pleadings that you post on 9 your website concerning this case?

10 A. Sometimes we get them directly from 11 the court reporter. I believe Mr. Dandar 12 provided a copy of the transcript of last 13 WEND's hearing, I think. Usually we get them 14 directly from the court reporter though.

15 Q. Or from Mr. Dandar do you guy them 16 BOO*I them from the court reporter.

17 A. Usually.

18 Q. Which court reporter have you BAULT 19 transcripts from?

20 A. Well, they may not all be in this 21 case. But we've gotten them from.

22 Q. I'm talking about this case. Have 23 you -- 24 A. Well, you know, I'm not really sure 25 much there's so many of them.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

103 1 Q. Miss Brooks?

2 A. Yeah.

3 Q. Concentrate on my question. In this 4 case?

5 MR. MERRIT: I would object and ask 6 that counsel be instructed not to talk to the 7 witness that way the question that's pending 8 is simply what.

9 THE COURT: Just pose the question 10 please.

11 Q. The transcripts in this case, is it your 12 testimony that you purchase transcripts in 13 this case from a court reporter?

14 A. No.

15 Q. Okay. And the transcripts in this 16 case that you've posted on the Internet have 17 come from where, where did you get them?

18 A. Well, which transcript are you 19 talking about for example?

20 Q. Miss Brooks, can you tell me?

21 MR. MERRIT: I'm going to object to 22 the argumentative tone and content of the 23 question. She's asked a reasonable question 24 for clarification. What transcripts are you 25 talking about.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

104 1 A. I'm not clear.

2 THE COURT: All transcripts. Can you 3 anxious that?

4 A. Well, I'm just trying to think of 5 what transcripts have been posted.

6 THE COURT: Do you know of any 7 transcript that have been posted on your 8 website?

9 A. There's a transcript of my -- of the 10 last day of my deposition that was posted.

11 Q. Okay. Where did you get it?

12 A. I don't know where he got that from.

13 A. Turn that off.

14 Q. How about other transcripts, where 15 did they come from?

16 A. I think that's the only one that's -- 17 that there's been.

18 Q. So you don't really know where L M T 19 gets copies of documents that get up on the 20 website? You don't necessarily even know?

21 A. Well, L M T didn't POET that 22 transcript. I don't know where he got that 23 from. I don't -- I don't.

24 Q. All right. So it's your testimony 25 you have --

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

105 1 A. But L M T department post.

2 Q. Here let me make this simple much do 3 you know, have you gotten any transcripts from 4 Mr. Dandar of any proceedings or depositions 5 in this case?

6 A. YESH as I just said, I believe we got 7 the transcript of last Wednesday WEND's 8 hearing from him.

9 Q. And you've gotten other hearings of 10 transcripts from Mr. Dandar, true?

11 A. Not that I know of.

12 Q. Okay and so if such materials are on 13 your website, you just have no idea whatsoever 14 how they got there? Where you acquired them?

15 MR. MERRIT: I'll object.

16 A. That's not true.

17 MR. MERRIT: He's being 18 argumentative.

19 THE COURT: She answered the question and 20 it's not argumentative Overruled.

21 Q. Okay why did you get them if you didn't 22 get them from Mr. Dandar transcripts of 23 proceedings or depositions in this case?

24 A. Well, could you ask me about a particular 25 one because I'm not sure which ones we do have

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

106 1 up on the website.

2 Q. Tell me it's not true, it's not true 3 that you got them from someplace other than 4 Mr. Dandar much tell me for any transcript or 5 deposition that you -- is in the PEFGS L M T 6 or in this case where you got it from, if you 7 didn't get it it from Mr. Dandar?

8 A. Well if we didn't get it from 9 Mr. Dandar, we would have gotten it from 10 either there's two different court reporter 11 either companies that I know we paid for 12 transcripts from. One is something like 13 testimony SI.

14 Q. In this case?

15 A. It could be in this case. I don't 16 know. I'd have to check. I know we've put -- 17 I know we've paid for transcripts to a firm 18 called testimony SI and I know we paid for 19 transcripts to a firm called Ken dish Shay or 20 something like that. So it's possible that 21 we've gotten them from them. We may have 22 gotten them from Mr. Dandar if Mr. Mayor it 23 has asked for them.

24 Q. You don't know?

25 A. But I would have to.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

107 1 Q. Right.

2 A. You NOESH sort of go back and match 3 up.

4 Q. Have there been any bank transfers to 5 Mr. Minton other than the $650,000 you 6 testified to last week? From L M T?

7 A. .

8 Q. How of the money transferred to 9 Mr. Minton on April 11th?

10 A. Could I refer back to the records?

11 Q. Sure.

12 THE COURT: If that will refresh your 13 recollection, sure.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Do you know how it was transferred to 16 him?

17 A. I don't much I'd have to refer back 18 to the records. On April.

19 Q. April 11th?

20 A. That was a transfer.

21 Q. Give me that again?

22 A. That was a transfer.

23 Q. Okay how was it transferred?

24 A. Says customer withdraw credit to 25 checking. So it was a transfer from the L M T

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

108 1 account to Mr. Minton's account.

2 Q. Mr. Minton has an ask the in the same 3 bank?

4 A. YECHL.

5 Q. Wasn't it with a check?

6 A. Apparently not, not from these 7 records.

8 Q. You can transfer in between accounts 9 that way in the same bank is that how it 10 works?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Is he a signatory on L M T account 13 then?

14 MR. MERRIT: Objection, asked and 15 answered.

16 THE COURT: Overruled.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Who did that transfer you or 19 Mr. Minton?

20 A. I believe both of us did it.

21 Q. Both you?

22 A. Both of us had to sign.

23 Q. Do you have records that have 24 transfer?

25 A. I don't. Well, do I here, but that's

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

109 1 all I have.

2 Q. You don't have the receipt 3 transferring the money over?

4 A. No.

5 Q. Where is that?

6 A. Probably shredded.

7 Q. You don't keep copies of your bank 8 receipts?

9 A. Not necessarily.

10 Q. Even if it's $400,000?

11 A. No.

12 Q. How much money is Mr. Minton owed by 13 L M T now?

14 A. Perhaps $200,000. I'm not sure.

15 Q. Do you have a record of how much he's 16 owed?

17 A. Well, not precisely, but I mean I 18 have a record of how much money he's given us, 19 so I would -- I believe it's about 200,000.

20 Q. You didn't produce any of your bank 21 records that show deposits which were from 22 which payment were made to yourself or 23 Mr. Minton or Mr. Bunk error Mr. Jacob son or 24 Mr. Ward or miss summers; is that correct?

25 A. No, that's incorrected.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

110 1 Q. Show me the -- is it the only record 2 of a composite the?

3 Q. $300,000 on April 11th that you've 4 produced?

5 A. I'm sorry.

6 Q. Have you produced any other records 7 of any deposits that were utilized to make any 8 payments to any of these witnesses?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Other than the April 11th?

11 A. These two.

12 Q. Statement?

13 A. Oh,.

14 Q. I'm looking for deposits, do you have 15 any records of deposits made that you?

16 A. No.

17 Q. Produce SNG?

18 A. No.

19 Q. None?

20 A. No.

21 Q. Now, L M T has ohm one bank account, 22 correct?

23 A. If I could just L.

24 Q. L M T has just one bank account 25 correct?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

111 1 A. Yes, but with regard to payments from 2 Mr. Minton, it's private and privileged 3 information and NOZ not covered by any prior 4 orders and it's not covered by judge beach's 5 current order.

6 Q. Come again. You said you have 7 payments to Mr. Minton that you consider 8 privileged?

9 A. No no from.

10 Q. From Mr. Minton that you were 11 considering?

12 A. You were asking about payments from 13 him.

14 Q. Okay you've got payments from 15 Mr. Minton that you have not produced?

16 A. I don't believe I've produced any 17 records of payments from him.

18 Q. All right.

19 A. Have I?

20 Q. I haven't seen any.

21 A. Okay.

22 A. So again, this is private and 23 privileged information, it's not covered by 24 any prior orders, and it's not covered by 25 judge beach's current order.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

112 1 Q. So you're refuse to go produce it 2 then?

3 MR. DANDAR: It's not covered.

4 A. Yes.

5 MR. MERRIT: And for the record we're 6 categorically refuse to go produce anything 7 that hasn't been requested or ordered by the 8 court.

9 Q. Has L M T opened any new accounts since 10 your last deposition?

11 A. No.

12 Q. Does it have any money market 13 accounts or savings accounts?

14 A. No.

15 Q. Exactly how much money has Mr. Minton 16 given to L M T?

17 A. I believe that would fall under the 18 same privilege and I don't believe I've been 19 required to provide that information.

20 Q. You're refusing?

21 MR. MERRIT: I would object based on 22 the fact it's not information that was 23 requested and it's beyond the scope of the 24 court's order. The L M T is not a witness or 25 a party.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

113 1 THE COURT: Well, the L M T, as I 2 understand it from the testimony I've heard in 3 this case, is established for the purpose of 4 discrediting the church of scientology by a 5 number of means.

6 A. Sir, that's incorrect.

7 THE COURT: Well,.

8 A. We are established to help people and 9 we do so every single day to try to obtain 10 some relief.

11 THE COURT: I've seen some video 12 demonstrations against them.

13 A. That's not L M T. These are individuals 14 gathering to protest, but the purpose of the 15 Lisa McPherson trust is not to discredit the 16 church of scientology.

17 THE COURT: I think you've testified 18 that there's been postings of excerpts from 19 depositions in this case on your website; is 20 that correct?

21 A. Yes, but that doesn't discredit 22 scientology.

23 THE COURT: Well, is it done to 24 promote the church or is it done.

25 A. No, it's done to.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

114 1 THE COURT: Promote the L M T or is 2 it done to discredit this -- in some way 3 influence this case why would you do that?

4 A. There are people involved in the Lisa 5 McPherson trust who are free speech add VOE 6 kits who feel that the people who are 7 following the events on the news group 8 alt.religion scientology should be privy to 9 the information that goes on with regard to 10 scientology in -- in any form throughout the 11 world. I don't happen to agree with that 12 attitude, but.

13 THE COURT: But you're the president 14 of the trust, ma'am.

15 A. That's true. But that doesn't give 16 me the right to curtail people's free speech 17 much there's nothing illegal about someone 18 posting a deposition transcript opt Internet.

19 THE COURT : Would you let the 20 scientologists post things derogatory about 21 the trust on your website?

22 A. You know, scientology posed so many 23 derogatory things about us.

24 THE COURT: That's not my question, 25 ma'am. Would you let them -- you're

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

115 1 advocating this is a free speech trust.

2 A. It's not on the website much I didn't 3 say it's on our website. There's a news group 4 which is through like a bulletin board in the 5 Internet and it's -- there are very very many 6 people on this news group who follow the 7 activities of the church of scientology, of 8 critics of scientology all around the world, 9 people coming out of the scientology, people 10 getting into scientology, legal cases 11 concerning scientology. It's a -- it's a 12 oppose PUR RI of all kinds of information 13 about what goes on.

14 THE COURT: Including the Lisa 15 McPherson lawsuit?

16 A. From time to time.

17 THE COURT: Okay.

18 A. But that's not just posted by the 19 Lisa McPherson trust. There are a lost people 20 who post about the Lisa McPherson lawsuit 21 because a LOFLT people are interested in it.

22 THE COURT: Including the Lisa 23 McPherson trust?

24 A. Once in a while.

25 THE COURT: Okay. So I'm going to

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

116 1 allow the question to be asked.

2 A. So what's the question.

3 Q. How much money has Mr. Minton given 4 to the Lisa McPherson trust corporation?

5 A. I'd have to go back and count up, I 6 don't have it in my head, but probably more 7 than a million dollars by now.

8 Q. Last summer Mr. Minton estimated it 9 was 1.3 million. Do you know how much he has 10 given to L M T in the past year?

11 A. When did he make that estimate? Last 12 summer? I don't believe so. I -- I don't -- 13 that doesn't add up. Because he hasn't given 14 us -- he hasn't given the L M T that much 15 money.

16 Q. Well, how much has he given your 17 brief?

18 A. Like I said maybe 1.3, maybe 1.4.

19 I'd have to add it up, but I don't think it's 20 more than that.

21 Q. Has L M T received any amounts over 22 hay,000 dollars from anyone except Mr. Minton?

23 MR. MERRIT: Objection asked and 24 answered on August 15th.

25 THE COURT: Yeah, that's been asked.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

117 1 Q. Okay. So can you go back and add it up 2 but you haven't produced those records?

3 A. That's correct.

4 Q. All right. Now, you don't -- you 5 didn't produce any records of any expense 6 money or any money that's been paid for any 7 expenses or benefits for yourself, have you?

8 A. Are you referring to something like 9 -- that I would pay myself out of L M T money?

10 Q. Right.

11 A. There have been a couple -- if you 12 can just let me refer to the documents that I 13 provided.

14 Q. This?

15 A. The -- no, not this one much the 16 quicken record. Yeah, that bottom thing.

17 There are a couple of things that are listed 18 here, payments to me.

19 Q. Did the L M T pay for your car?

20 A. No.

21 Q. Who bought it?

22 A. I believe we need to stay on the L M 23 T, the deposition and then do my personal 24 deposition next.

25 Q. So L M T had nothing to do with the

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

118 1 purchase of your car?

2 A. Correct.

3 Q. Did you list every expense amount 4 that was paid to you or Mr. Prisons or miss 5 summers or Mr. Minton?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Every single reimbursement is here?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And what you've handed me is Exhibit 10 3, is the entire quicken printout for L M T 11 since its inception?

12 A. Well, let me look at it. Yes, it is.

13 Q. It looks like 95 percent of it is 14 blacked out, right?

15 A. 95 percent of it is irrelevant and 16 not discoverable. But those items that were 17 discoverable I've left readable.

18 Q. The -- you have a credit card, right 19 L M T credit card?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. You use?

22 Did you produce your credit card 23 receipts?

24 A. No.

25 Q. Does Jessie prisons have a credit

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

119 1 card for too for L M T?

2 A. Well there are three credit cards for 3 use by the staff.

4 Q. You have one, prisons has one, who 5 has the other?

6 A. And mark bunk either, but they're not 7 just for use by mark or, you know are or 8 Jessie or me.

9 Q. Okay. You didn't produce those 10 receipts did you?

11 A. No.

12 Q. You used your credit card sometimes 13 for travel expenses right?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. And for food?

16 A. Rarely.

17 Q. Restaurants?

18 A. Rarely.

19 Q. Clothing?

20 A. No.

21 Q. You never use it for clothes?

22 A. I never V I don't think anybody else 23 has.

24 Q. Telephone?

25 A. Telephoneing? No.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

120 1 Q. Hotels?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Does this print out or anything else 4 you've given me indicate any payments for 5 expenses of me aprix Marie aP GAR dean I?

6 A. No.

7 Q. L M T paid for Marie acar dean toy 8 come to the united states correct?

9 A. .

10 Q. You paid for her expenses while she 11 was here?

12 A. Some of them. She was quite 13 destitute and we loaned her the money.

14 Q. How much money did you loan her?

15 A. I don't believe that this has 16 anything to do with this case. Marie is not a 17 witness. I don't know why.

18 Q. I think it is. How much money did 19 you?

20 MR. DANDAR: She's not a witness on 21 any witness list, judge.

22 THE COURT: What's the relevancy.

23 MR. MOXON: I want to see how much they 24 paid her if they used her to go to the media, 25 to make complaints.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

121 1 A. It NAZ has nothing to do with this case.

2 THE COURT: What's the connection 3 with this case.

4 MR. MOXON: Her connection with this case 5 is I subpoenaed her in this case and she was 6 utilized by L M T for the purpose of 7 influencing the jury pool.

8 A. That's incorrect. #SNI guess the 9 question would be first is she on any witness 10 list.

11 THE COURT: Well, is she on a witness 12 list?

13 MR. MOXON: No CHLTD.

14 THE COURT: Okay, but are you 15 representing that she is going to be a witness 16 or are you considering her as a witness?

17 MR. MOXON: Well, I subpoenaed her and 18 she left country and there's a motion to 19 compel.

20 THE COURT: What activity has she engaged 21 in that leads to you engage she's out to 22 influence a jury pool in this case?

23 MR. MOXON: Statements made to the media 24 L M T brought her to the media to make 25 statements.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

122 1 A. We have not. We have not never brought 2 her to the media Your Honor and she has never 3 NAED made any statement that I know of having 4 anything to do with Lisa McPherson whatsoever.

5 THE COURT: Okay what proof do you 6 have of that?

7 MR. MOXON: I didn't bring it with me 8 here today Your Honor.

9 THE COURT: Well we'll pass THACHL if you 10 wanted to pursue it, we'll take it up with a 11 motion.

12 MR. MOXON: Very good.

13 THE COURT: And if, in fact, I think it's 14 the line of inquiry is valid, we'll revisit 15 the problem.

16 MR. MOXON: Okay.

17 Q. Did you produce any of the funds provided 18 to yourself will you cab better a?

19 A. I need to clarify, Your Honor. I 20 have no knowledge that yourself will you cab 21 better afalls under a person who has any facts 22 directly or indirectly about how this case 23 arows out of the incident occur WG respect to 24 Lisa McPherson.

25 Q. The answer is no?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

123 1 MR. MERRIT: The question was did you 2 produce any?

3 A. Did I produce any what?

4 Q. Any of -- any evidence of any funds 5 provided to miss yourself will you cab better 6 aor expenses?

7 A. No.

8 Q. Paid on behalf of her?

9 A. Sore toy do that, no.

10 Q. ?

11 THE COURT: Let me just clarify one 12 point. You keep reading from that one portion 13 of the order. And I thought my scope of 14 inQUISH RI also included any activities on 15 behalf of the trust to influence witnesses or 16 give payments to witnesses or.

17 A. That's correct, Your Honor.

18 THE COURT: In any way to influence 19 the outcome of this case. Not just the facts 20 of the accident itself, the death of it 21 receive.

22 MR. MOXON: That's correct.

23 A. That's correct, Your Honor it says this 24 includes any witness who has any evidence of 25 any activities with other witnesses gathering

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

124 1 of information from other witnesses or 2 payments to other witnesses.

3 THE COURT: All right but you haven't 4 been read that go portions.

5 A. Okay sorry.

6 THE COURT: But you've just been 7 reading the one portion if that was the only 8 portion that I included.

9 A. All right well the whole thing -- the 10 whole thing is in your point number seven.

11 THE COURT: Okay.

12 MR. MOXON: I'm just choosing not to 13 argue with the witness I just wants to get 14 facts here.

15 THE COURT: No, I understand.

16 MR. MOXON: Yeah,.

17 THE COURT: She seemed to be making the 18 point that it was just limited to that 19 particular area that she's been reading and my 20 recollection was that it was broader than 21 that.

22 MR. MOXON: It is. And I.

23 A. Sorry Your Honor I didn't mean to be.

24 MR. MOXON: I will be moving, you 25 know I'm seeking a contempt after this is

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

125 1 over, I want to finish the deposition and get 2 the deposition with the limited time we have 3 and we can address that.

4 MR. MOXON:

5 Q. Has L M T, do you know, paid for any 6 expenses or any funds for any reason to 7 Michael pat even son?

8 A. No.

9 Q. Marjorie wake field?

10 A. No.

11 Q. Ton I couldn't knew Shaw?

12 A. No.

13 Q. Hanna Whitfield?

14 A. No.

15 MR. MERRIT: Objection asked and 16 answered.

17 A. Sorry.

18 THE COURT: Overruled.

19 Q. Vaughn young?

20 A. No.

21 Q. No money has ever been given to 22 Vaughn young by L M T?

23 A. No.

24 Q. Any expenses for Vaughn young for any 25 reason ever been paid any by any account of L

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

126 1 M T?

2 A. No.

3 Q. Any credit card at all? Of L M T?

4 A. No.

5 Q. You haven't produced any 6 correspondence with your payroll company, 7 correct?

8 A. Correct.

9 Q. Or any of the checks to your payroll 10 company?

11 A. No.

12 Q. Did you give a 1099 to grade I ward?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. You didn't produce that, did you?

15 A. I don't have it.

16 Q. Where is it?

17 A. Perhaps my accountant has a copy, but 18 I don't have it.

19 Q. Did you ask your accountant for any 20 records responsive to the court's orders?

21 A. No. I -- I had a copy of our tax 22 return with the W-2's and I did produce that.

23 The W-2's.

24 Q. You didn't talk to your accountant as 25 to your accountant if he had any responsive

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

127 1 records; is that correct?

2 A. No.

3 Q. At your last deposition, you 4 identified a board minute regarding the 5 transfer of stock to you? You haven't 6 produced that, have you?

7 A. No.

8 Q. And there was $12,000 loan given to 9 grade I ward by L M T, correct?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. Did you produce a check a $12,000 12 check you gave to Mr. Ward at your last 13 deposition?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. But you haven't produced any other 16 documentation concerning that loan, have you?

17 A. No.

18 MR. MERRIT: Excuse me it's 19 referenced in the quick books document.

20 A. Oh, I'm sorry.

21 Q. The fact of the loan?

22 A. It is in the quick books.

23 Q. But you haven't pro DUFTD loan 24 agreement, have you?

25 A. It was a verbal agreement.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

128 1 Q. Has he repaid the loan?

2 A. He's working on it.

3 Q. Has he repaid the loan?

4 A. Not completely yet.

5 Q. How much of it has he paid?

6 A. Probably a couple hundred dollars.

7 Q. When did you give him the $12,000 8 loan?

9 A. I'll have to look.

10 THE COURT: How much longer do you 11 anticipate before a lunch break?

12 MR. MOXON: It's your pleasure, Your 13 Honor. We can take a lunch break now if you 14 wanted.

15 THE COURT: Okay. One hour, come back at 16 20 after.

17 MR. MOXON: Very good. If we can get an 18 answer to that one last question opt record.

19 A. End of may 2000.

20 MR. MOXON: Okay. Lunch lunch to to 21 to to to is is is is is is is is is is 22 23 24 25

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

From: Bob Minton <bobminton@lisatrust.net>
Subject: 2/3 McPherson V CoS -- LMT Depo PM Session -- Judge Beach Presiding 09-07-01
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 09:27:59 -0400
Organization: Lisa McPherson Trust, 33 N. Fort Harrison Ave., Clearwater, FL 33755 Tel: (727) 467-9335
Message-ID: <m57kptc430ahted7c0vpufklg8mgqtvmau@4ax.com>
This is the PM session continuation of the LMT Depo in McPherson V Scientology in the presence of Judge Beach, on Friday Sept 7, 2001. It is a ROUGH DRAFT, DIRTY ASCII and UNCERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT provided by court reporter on day of depo.

1 1 Test test test test test test test test test 2 test test test test test test test test test 3 test test test test test test test test 4 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're on the video 5 record. 1234 judge, before we resume the 6 questioning I think there's one thing you need 7 to be aware of with regard to these allegation 8 about the jury pool and that is that the L M T 9 has been in Pinellas County since its 10 inception much this case was in Hillsborough 11 County and was moved to pin Ellis county at 12 scientology's instant long after the L M T 13 opened. So there was -- there was nothing 14 going on in pen Ellis county with the L M T 15 was located until scientology brought it here.

16 THE COURT: Well, you understand I'm not 17 making any findings one way or the other 124 18 yes, sir.

19 THE COURT: I'm just saying these are the 20 allegations and I'm not passing judgment on 21 any of the allegations flying back and forth 22 12346789 gee that sounds like it almost might 23 be point less to make them to you.

24 THE COURT: No, I mean your duty is to 25 protect your record. My duty is to call the

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

2 1 shots as I see them. Right? 1234 yes, sir.

2 THE COURT: Okay. 6789.

3 Q. Okay. Miss Brooks what was the CD you 4 gave to Mr. Dandar during one of the brakes?

5 A. It was something he had asked for 6 from Jessie prisons and Jessie asked necessity 7 to give it to him.

8 Q. What was it?

9 A. I'm not actually sure. Jessie just 10 said here give this to Ken police and it had a 11 note on it saying please give to Ken before 12 your depo.

13 Q. So he's still working for Mr. Dandar?

14 A. No. I believe it had something to do 15 with his Jessie's criminal case, that Ken 16 wanted to see something on the record that 17 have case. But I don't know what exactly.

18 Q. You were present at a number of 19 hearings that were held in this case weren't 20 you?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. And you started being present at 23 hearings back in 1999?

24 A. I don't remember.

25 Q. Do you remember being present at a

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

3 1 hearing on September 13th, 1999?

2 A. You know, I don't, but I think it 3 would be better for us to stick with things 4 that happened from January 2000 on in my 5 corporate depo unless you're done with the 6 corporate depo and want to start on my 7 personal depo.

8 Q. Okay much let's start in October then 9 when L M T started?

10 A. No, L M T didn't start until January 11 2000.

12 Q. Were you present at a hearing working 13 for Mr. Dandar in September of 99?

14 A. Again, we're supposed to be finishing 15 my corporate depo first and there was no L M T 16 in September of 99. So I would appreciate it 17 if we could stick to questions regarding me as 18 a corporate representative of the L M T.

19 Q. I don't want to argue over you we're 20 wasting so much time arguing. We'll mark as 21 Exhibit 7 a -- the document September by 22 Mr. Dandar to the secretary of state 23 incorporating L M T as its counsel. It's 24 dated -- this was dated October 19th, 1999, 25 and a number of other documents concerning it

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

4 1 that Mr. Dandar September to the division of 2 corporations concerning the Lisa McPherson 3 trust. And it indicates that the registered 4 5340 west Kennedy boulevard that was 5 Mr. Dandar's office wasn't it?

6 A. I'm not sure what his address is.

7 Q. Oh,?

8 A. But it is on west Kennedy.

9 Q. Yeah are it was west Kennedy. And 10 you were the first registered agent of L M T 11 weren't you?

12 A. You know, I need to look at those 13 papers.

14 Q. Were you the first registered agent 15 of L M T, no?

16 A. I actually don't can I see the papers 17 1234 don't wore by it. Just answer the 18 questions that he asks you. If you don't know 19 say you don't know.

20 A. Okay.

21 Q. You don't know?

22 A. No.

23 Q. Just to refresh your recollection, do 24 you see this bottom thing?

25 A. Can I see these?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

5 1 Q. Just look at the last thing, I've got 2 other questions. I don't want to waste 3 deposition time?

4 A. Okay are we going to be talking about 5 these papers because if we are.

6 THE COURT: Just look at the portion 7 he requested, please.

8 Q. Is that your signature accepting as 9 the registered agent?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And the address, do you recall what 12 address you were using for the registered 13 agent?

14 A. I don't.

15 Q. 5340 west Kennedy boulevard?

16 A. Well it actually says P.O. Box 191 17 Clearwater Florida.

18 Q. Do you see where it's highlighted?

19 A. Oh, I see. That is highlighted.

20 What I was just reading.

21 Q. What's the address that's 22 highlighted? 1234 I'm sorry I'm going to have 23 to ask that this be marked and made a part of 24 the record 6789 I've marked it as Exhibit 7.

25 1234 and if -- I'm sorry much the objection is

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

6 1 it's irrelevant what part of the paper 2 Mr. Moxon has highlighted if he has questions 3 of the witness she should be asked?

4 THE COURT: Well I think that's to 5 direct her attention to refresh her 6 recollection.

7 Q. I'll read it Lisa McPherson trust a 8 corporation organized under the laws of the 9 state of Florida with it principal office at 10 P.O. Box 191 Clearwater, Florida, county of 11 Pinellas has named Stacy brooks located at 12 5340 west Kennedy boulevard number 201 as its 13 agent to accept service of process correct?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Okay. 1234 I'm sorry counsel? Was 16 there something you're contributing? Man man 17 I'm not talking to you.

18 Q. It's dated October 21st and there's a 19 notary here as to the articles of 20 incorporation Donna west much do you see that?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Do you know who Donna west is?

23 A. I don't.

24 Q. Mr. Dandar's secretary, right?

25 A. Well, he has a secretary named Donna.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

7 1 Q. Does that refresh your recollection 2 it's Donna west?

3 A. I don't actually know her last name.

4 Q. Okay. So on October 22nd, 1999, you 5 were present at a hearing in this case, 6 correct?

7 A. Okay. Again. We need to limit what 8 you're going to ask me as a corporate 9 representative to experiences that have 10 happened since January 6th, 20000 because 11 prior to that I was not hay corporate 12 representative of the L M T.

13 THE COURT: Were you in any way 14 involved with activities concerning the trust 15 leading up to the formation of the trust?

16 A. Other than what he's just read where 17 I was named as an agent, no, and term not in 18 any hearing.

19 THE COURT: You were at hearings 20 however before the trust?

21 A. Yes. But hearings.

22 THE COURT: Why.

23 A. About the Lisa McPherson case are not 24 anything to do with me as a corporate 25 representative of the Lisa McPherson trust.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

8 1 THE COURT: Did you use any of the 2 information you learned from these hearings in 3 connection with your duties later in the 4 trust?

5 A. No. I didn't. 6789.

6 Q. Well, I'll address that further, of 7 course. But I was trying to point out to you, 8 miss Brooks, is that October 19th is when this 9 materials were sent into the state identifying 10 you as the registered agent of L M T in 1999.

11 Now, on October 22nd, 1999, three days later, 12 do you remember you had appeared at a hearing 13 in this case?

14 A. I don't really.

15 Q. I'll show you a document so you can 16 refresh your recollection much it's a cover 17 sheet which lifts you as being present. Does 18 that refresh your recollection?

19 A. No.

20 Q. What were you doing at this hearing 21 1234 could we get that marked?

22 A. I don't know.

23 Q. It's marked as Exhibit 8. You don't 24 know why you were at these hearings?

25 A. I didn't say that. You asked me what

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

9 1 I was doing at that hearing and I don't know.

2 I'd have to see the transcript or whatever.

3 Q. Well, were you a consultant of 4 Mr. Dandar's in 1999 or not?

5 A. I did consult with him.

6 Q. Yeah. Mr. Dandar argued many times 7 that you worked for him as a trial consultant 8 right 1234 I'll on the to counsel testifying.

9 THE COURT: Well, he asked you if 10 that's correct. Is that your recollection, do 11 you recall that?

12 A. That Mr. Dandar has testified that?

13 That I don't know.

14 THE COURT: That he argued that you 15 were his assistant?

16 A. That I don't -- that I don't know, 17 but I did consult with him during 1999.

18 Q. Yeah. For -- in this case, right?

19 A. Uh-huh.

20 Q. Yes?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. In 1998 you did too, right?

23 A. If there's a specific hearing you can 24 refresh my memory with, that's possible, but 25 my involvement in it was pretty minimal, so

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

10 1 I'm not -- I couldn't say for sure.

2 Q. Well, here's the question of do you 3 deny that you were acting as Mr. Dandar's 4 consultant during 1998?

5 A. I don't remember if I did any 6 consulting with him on the case in 19898 or 7 not.

8 Q. You had communication with Mr. Dandar 9 in 1998 about this case, didn't you?

10 A. I don't remember.

11 Q. Okay. So if Mr. Dandar is asserting 12 a privilege for you being his consultant in 13 1998, can we say that you have no recollection 14 of that, you have got no evidence to support 15 that you were a consultant to Mr. Dandar in 16 1998?

17 A. Correct.

18 Q. Okay.

19 Q. You're aware, of course that 20 Mr. Minton was funding this case in 1998, 21 right?

22 A. No.

23 Q. You weren't -- you weren't working 24 for L M T in October of 98, were you?

25 A. No.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

11 1 Q. Or October of 899?

2 A. No.

3 Q. How about September of 99?

4 A. No. Not until January 6th, 2000.

5 Q. Okay. Now, there's another hearing 6 where you were present, actually, you were 7 present at the deposition of Jessie prisons 8 November 17th, 1999. Do you remember that?

9 A. Was that in Denver?

10 Q. No. It was here.

11 A. I don't.

12 Q. Let's see if this will refresh your 13 recollection. We'll mark it as Exhibit 9?

14 A. No.

15 Q. You don't deny that you were at 16 Mr. Prisons's deposition?

17 A. I don't remember it.

18 Q. Do you remember your having meetings 19 with Mr. Dandar and Mr. Prisons during brakes 20 at the deposition?

21 A. I don't remember the deposition.

22 Q. Okay. You were working for 23 Mr. Dandar reviewing Lisa McPherson's accounts 24 netted folders?

25 A. I did do that yes.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

12 1 Q. During 1999, correct?

2 A. Was that 1999? I don't remember when 3 it was, but I definitely did that, yes.

4 Q. How much time did you spend doing 5 that?

6 A. As I recall, the better part of two 7 days.

8 Q. Do you remember attending a hearing 9 with Mr. Dandar in this case on November 19th, 10 1999?

11 A. No.

12 Q. Well you used to go to a lot of 13 hearings in this case didn't you?

14 A. Well, it's -- when I say I don't 15 remember, what I mean is I did go to hearings.

16 I don't remember one specifically on that day 17 and I don't remember what it was about without 18 seeing something to refresh my memory. But 19 what you're giving me.

20 Q. I've marked as Exhibit 10?

21 A. To refresh my memory is a cover sheet 22 which doesn't say anything about what 23 happened.

24 Q. It says you were present doesn't it?

25 A. Yeah.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

13 1 Q. Okay.

2 A. But I just don't remember what it was 3 about.

4 Q. I've mark as Exhibit 10 a cover sheet 5 November 19th, 1999. Do you recall now that 6 you were consulting with Mr. Dandar during 7 November of 1999 on this case?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Do you remember you went to the 10 deposition of Bennetta Slaughter in this case 11 as Mr. Dandar's assistant on December 7th, 12 1999?

13 A. I did go to Bonneta's depo, yes.

14 Q. All right. As Mr. Dandar's assistant 15 right?

16 A. No.

17 Q. What were you doing there?

18 A. Well, done net aSlaughter is a very 19 well trained scientologist. Mr. Dandar 20 expected that she would have been very well 21 coached for her deposition, and he asked me to 22 come because I am familiar with how 23 scientologists deal with depositions, to give 24 him advice about how to go about dealing with 25 her.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

14 1 Q. Okay. I've mark as Exhibit 11 the 2 cover sheet of your appearance at that 3 deposition. You don't deny that, right?

4 A. No.

5 Q. You've probably appeared at a couple 6 dozen hearings and depositions in this case, 7 haven't you?

8 A. I don't know.

9 Q. I mean I can go through these all if 10 we want but I don't want to waste the time.

11 How many do you think you've been to?

12 A. I really don't know.

13 Q. Give me your best estimate 1234 I'll 14 object it's asked and answered?

15 THE COURT: Well can you give us an 16 estimate, a range, ten to 20, 20 to 50.

17 A. I would have said more like five to 18 ten.

19 Q. Do you remember you appeared at the 20 deposition of Vaughn young on December 21st 21 and 22nd as Mr. Dandar's consultant or expert?

22 A. No.

23 Q. You don't remember going to that 24 deposition?

25 A. Yes, I do remember going.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

15 1 Q. Okay.

2 A. But that wasn't my role.

3 Q. Do you remember going to a hearing on 4 December 14th, 1999 as Mr. Dandar's assistant?

5 A. No. I never went to a hearing as his 6 assistant.

7 Q. See if Exhibit 12 I've marked as the 8 cover sheet of December 14th refreshes your 9 recollection?

10 A. Again, I wasn't there as an 11 assistant.

12 Q. You were there as a general 13 consultant?

14 A. You know, on some of these hearings I 15 went just because I was interested. I never 16 even spoke to Ken during the hearing, so for 17 some of these hearings I was there as a member 18 of the audience. But I would have to see the 19 transcripts to be able to tell you which was 20 which. In fact, the only times in 1999 that I 21 remember actually serving in any kind of an 22 advisory capacity to Mr. Dandar was during -- 23 well, I was going to be advising him in 24 Bonetta's deposition but it didn't move 25 forward. In Vaughn young's deposition, I was

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

16 1 there more for Vaughn 6789 Your Honor I object 2 to her going on of I've asked the questions I 3 don't know why she's talking now 1234 I'm 4 sorry what was the last question 5 Include File Not Found.

6 Q. At the hearing at the hearing?

7 A. Right and the answer is no.

8 Q. On December 14th, 1999?

9 A. Right, and what I told you is I would 10 have to see the transcripts to remember, but I 11 don't remember being a consultant at any of 12 those hearings?

13 Q. Okay. Did miss -- did L M T pay for 14 Mr. Merrit's representation of Gradey ward in 15 his bankruptcy case?

16 A. No.

17 Q. Do you know who maid for Mr. Mayor 18 it's representation of Mr. Ward?

19 A. I believe he did it pro bono.

20 Q. Pro bono?

21 A. Isn't pro bono when you do it for 22 free?

23 Q. That's what it means. 1234 I don't 24 know that I represented Gradey ward in his 25 bankruptcy case. 6789 okay.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

17 1 A. Well, let me put it this way. I 2 didn't pay for it.

3 Q. All right.

4 A. As L M T.

5 Q. Good. Did L M T pay for Ford green's 6 representation plaintiff ward in the case of 7 religious technology center versus ward?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Do you have -- did you produce the 10 documents of that benefit to Mr. Ward as his 11 legal representation?

12 A. No.

13 Q. That case arose out of the events 14 that occurred several years before Mr. Ward 15 worked for L M T, didn't it?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Did L M T pay for attorney Dan 18 Leipold to represent Gradey ward in the 19 religious technology center versus ward 20 copyright case?

21 A. Excuse me, but I think this is a good 22 time for me to offer this declaration by 23 Gradey ward.

24 Q. Just a moment could you answer my 25 question 1234 don't interrupt the witness

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

18 1 please?

2 THE COURT: Let her finish her 3 statement.

4 A. Because well let me just, it's just 5 very quick, judge, it's very short.

6 THE COURT : This is his deposition, 7 so.

8 A. Okay.

9 THE COURT: He can conduct it within 10 the rules as he cease fit.

11 A. All right.

12 THE COURT : So do you object to her 13 reading that? 6789 I'd like her to answer the 14 question much if she wants to show me 15 something, I could -- I don't have a problem, 16 but it's -- eye just like an answer to my 17 question 1234 Your Honor I will object to the 18 questions regarding Gradey ward because Gradey 19 ward is not a witness in the case much he has 20 no knowledge of any of the matters set out 21 here in your order and that's what the 22 declaration is.

23 A. Well 1234 he doesn't know anything about 24 the death, he doesn't know anything about the 25 bringing of case, he doesn't know anything

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

19 1 about any payments to refresh his own witness.

2 THE COURT: Well I don't think the 3 order limits his inquiry to ohm witnesses that 4 are on the list. I think discovery deposition 5 is designed to fair it out information about 6 other respective witnesses that you didn't 7 know about in the first place 1234 correct, 8 you shall, is what she has is his declaration 9 explaining he doesn't know anything about the 10 case.

11 THE COURT: That's fine and he can read 12 it. The fact that the witness makes a 13 declaration doesn't make it so. He may have 14 other information to the contrary or she may 15 have other information to the contrary that 16 even titles him to make an inquiry, the mere 17 fact that the witness says I don't know 18 anything, how much times have you had a 19 witness where the witness said I don't know 20 anything and after you talked to them they do 21 know some things 1234 well we have a discrete 22 incident of a girl dying in a scientology 23 hotel room over five to ten days and he wasn't 24 there 6789 move to strike move to strike.

25 THE COURT: Well it's not limited simply

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

20 1 to the events of that day, as you recall, 6789 2 yeah.

3 THE COURT: It's limited also to any 4 activities performed by anybody, including the 5 trust, that might be considered as bearing on 6 the influencing of the witnesses 6789 okay.

7 THE COURT: So you don't necessarily have 8 to have information about the actual incident 9 to fall within the per view of the inquiry 10 1234 what I'm suggesting predicate would be to 11 demonstrate that Gradey ward has some 12 information before they call on this witness 13 to disclose what would otherwise be private 14 information about dealings with Mr. Ward.

15 Some evidence that he knows something that he 16 is a witness, that he has information 17 pertinent to the case.

18 THE COURT: We won't know until she 19 answers the question.

20 A. Your Honor, these questions that he's 21 asking me don't have anything to do with the 22 Lisa McPherson case.

23 THE COURT: I have no idea because I 24 haven't heard the questions yet.

25 A. Okay, but I would like an opportunity

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

21 1 to read this declaration into the record.

2 It's one paragraph.

3 THE COURT: Okay of go ahead and read 4 it.

5 A. This is from Gradey ward of I have 6 read the complaint answer and counterclaim in 7 McPherson versus scientology much do I not 8 possess or have knowledge about any statements 9 about that case made by any person having 10 personal knowledge of the facts of case. I 11 have no personal knowledge of the facts of 12 that case. I have no knowledge of the making 13 of the decision to bring that case, or of the 14 making of any subsequent decisions concerning 15 that case. I have no personal knowledge 16 regarding the funding of plaintiff or 17 defendant in that case the intended 18 disposition of any proceeds of that case or 19 payments to any person having personal 20 knowledge of any aspect of the case or the 21 facts of the case.

22 Q. Thank you. Now, my question is, did 23 L M T pay for the representation of Daniel 24 Leipold to represent Mr. Ward in the religious 25 technology center versus ward case 1234 and

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

22 1 the objection is Mr. Ward is not a witness 2 having anything to do with the case. I mean 3 you've got his sworn declaration?

4 THE COURT: Well that's immaterial.

5 What evidence do you have that ward is a 6 potential witness 6789 Mr. Ward has been on 7 the witness list for almost a year-and-a-half.

8 Judge moody denied motions brought by 9 Mr. Dandar not to take Mr. Ward's deposition, 10 he denied motions made by Mr. Mayor it to 11 quash Mr. Ward's deposition. Mr. Ward's 12 deposition was taken in this case. Mr. Ward 13 has been.

14 THE COURT: Okay. I've heard enough.

15 Answer the question. 1234 may I say one 16 thing, Your Honor, both for the court's 17 benefit and for the record. Obviously if 18 Mr. Ward has information about the case, 19 Mr. Moxon can produce it in his deposition.

20 But he didn't know anything in his deposition.

21 He knows nothing about the case.

22 THE COURT: He's been listed as a 23 witness. He can ask this.

24 THE WITNESS: Whether or not she 25 knows anything about Mr. Ward having any

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

23 1 information about the case in spite of fact 2 that he may have filed some motion -- some 3 statement 1234 and he's been deposed.

4 THE COURT: And he's been deposed.

5 A. So he's.

6 THE COURT: Just answer the question, 7 ma'am. Just listen to the question and answer 8 it, please.

9 Q. The question is did L M T pay witness 10 Daniel Leipold whose on Mr. Dandar's witness 11 list for trial any money to represent Gradey 12 ward in the religious technology center versus 13 ward case?

14 A. No.

15 Q. Did L M T pay Mr. Leipold money for 16 any other reason?

17 A. No. I don't believe so.

18 Q. Okay. So when Mr. Leipold 19 represented L M T at the first deposition of 20 the L M T representative, L M T didn't pay 21 him?

22 A. I don't recall. I don't believe so.

23 Q. Did L M T pay Mr. Mayor it to 24 represent Jeff Jacob son in the case of Jacob 25 son versus John Doe?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

24 1 A. What's that?

2 Q. It's a case.

3 A. No. I don't know what that case is.

4 Q. On your one of these print outs you 5 gave me which we've mark as exhibited 3 today 6 is a payment to Leipold Donna hue and blocked 7 outs the rest of it?

8 A. Shank.

9 Q. Shape. The category it says 10 reimburse $4,000700.

11 A. Oh, yes. That was to his company, 12 not to Dan. That was a reimbursement for 13 shipping defenses.

14 Q. Mr. Leipold paid shipped $4700 worth 15 of materials for L M T?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. What was that?

18 A. It was when the boxes that are now 19 the library were shipped to Clearwater.

20 Q. From Mr. Leipold?

21 A. Well, he covered the cost for us and 22 we reimbursed him. They weren't -- they 23 weren't in his office, but he covered the cost 24 of shipping them.

25 Q. That's the 120 boxes?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

25 1 A. Yes. Or however however many it is.

2 Q. Okay. Did L M T make any 3 contributions to a company called courage 4 productions?

5 A. No.

6 Q. To Peter Alexander?

7 A. No.

8 Q. Did it make any financial 9 contributions to -- for the production of the 10 movie the profit?

11 A. No. 1234 objection asked and 12 answered last time we were here.

13 THE COURT: Yeah. I think we covered 14 that. It's been covered. 6789.

15 Q. Is this movie has something to do 16 with L M T, right?

17 A. No.

18 Q. Was Mr. Minton -- Sara can you give 19 me Exhibit M? Mr. Minton posted that it was, 20 quote, our film on the Internet, do you 21 remember seeing that?

22 A. No, but he didn't mean the L M T.

23 Q. Do you know who he meant?

24 A. No.

25 Q. Is this film supposed to be about

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

26 1 scientology?

2 A. No.

3 Q. It's not?

4 A. Not to my knowledge.

5 Q. Most of the L M T employees appeared 6 in this film, didn't they?

7 A. No.

8 Q. Well, you did, right?

9 A. I had a little part.

10 Q. And Mr. Minton had a part too, right?

11 A. He had a little part.

12 Q. And there was an article in the paper 13 last week quoting Peter Alexander, one of your 14 -- one of the other witnesses in this case 15 saying that it's that it's about scientology 16 did you see that?

17 A. No. I'm sure he didn't say that.

18 Q. Okay. So it's your testimony this 19 movie has absolutely nothing to do with 20 scientology whatsoever?

21 A. Not to my knowledge.

22 Q. And Mr. Prisons had a part in the 23 movie too, right?

24 A. Yeah, a little one.

25 Q. And even Mr. Dandar had a part in the

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

27 1 movie too, department he?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Were you all paid for your work in 4 this movie?

5 A. No.

6 Q. Just all happened to volunteer?

7 A. No. We were friends and it seemed 8 like fun we had never been in a movie before.

9 It was just a little bit parts.

10 Q. So all of the media assertions that 11 this movie is about scientology are just pure 12 falsehood 1234 objection. It calls for 13 comment on something that's not in evidence.

14 THE COURT: Well, it would be a 15 conclusion on her part. Unless you know 16 actually that this is a depiction of the 17 church of scientology. Do you know?

18 A. No, sir.

19 Q. Okay. Did Mr. Minton put any money 20 into this movie, do you know?

21 A. I believe so.

22 Q. Do you know how much?

23 A. I don't.

24 Q. On the inter net it said there was 25 several million dollars much do you know if

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

28 1 that's accurate?

2 A. I don't.

3 Q. Do you have any idea at all how much 4 money he put into the move any?

5 A. No.

6 Q. But he's an investor in it?

7 A. I don't know.

8 Q. You never talked to Mr. Minton about 9 this movie at all?

10 A. Not really.

11 Q. So you're on the movie lot with 12 Mr. Minton, you didn't talk to him about the 13 movie?

14 A. I talked to him about my makeup and 15 the actors and the sets and things.

16 Q. Do you remember when the L M T staff 17 went down to demonstrate at the movie about 18 how scientology was trying to shut it down and 19 you were doing a counter demonstration?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Yeah.

22 A. There were.

23 Q. You've answered the question. 1234 24 you've answered the question.

25 Q. Mr. Dan daughter's witness Peter

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

29 1 Alexander is the director of the movie, isn't 2 he?

3 A. I believe so.

4 Q. And the writer of it?

5 A. I think so.

6 Q. In fact, Mr. Mayor it represented the 7 movie, didn't he in an action to try to stop 8 scientologists from demonstrating at the 9 movie?

10 A. I actually don't know.

11 Q. You never heard about that?

12 A. No.

13 Q. Did L M T pay for Mr. Mayor it's 14 representation of these people in the movie 15 trying to get a restraining order against 16 scientologists from demonstrating where the 17 movie of being produced?

18 A. No.

19 Q. A couple of weeks ago Mr. Bunk either 20 approached the owner of the theater on 21 Clearwater called the Clearwater play house to 22 make a contract with them to show the movie 23 there, did you know that?

24 A. What Mr. Bunk either approached them?

25 No, he didn't. I don't believe that's true.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

30 1 Q. You don't know anything about that?

2 A. No way.

3 Q. Do you know somebody else who did?

4 A. I have no idea, but I don't believe 5 Mr. Bunk either did.

6 Q. So you say you basically don't have 7 any knowledge of that?

8 A. No, but I will be very surprised.

9 Q. We'll ask Mr. Bunk either. 1234 10 well, you can tell us who your investigator is 11 and we can ask him.

12 THE COURT: Let's keep the 13 conversation to yourselves, pleads.

14 Q. Did you give Mr. Bunk either time off 15 from work to try to work out a contract for 16 this movie?

17 A. No. Your information is incorrect, 18 Mr. Moxon.

19 Q. Did Mr. Minton pay for you and 20 Mr. Prisons and Mr. Young to receive 21 counseling at a place Caldwell spring?

22 A. I believe this is getting into 23 personal questions.

24 Q. Okay. I'll take this up in your 25 personal part?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

31 1 A. This is not the subject of a 2 corporate representative.

3 Q. Well, no it is because Mr. Minton is 4 the one -- the owner of L M T and these are 5 all?

6 THE COURT: Well are you going to 7 pursue it or not 6789 Yes, I am.

8 THE COURT: Well it sounds like it might 9 be personal so why don't you keep it to the 10 personal part?

11 THE COURT:

12 Q. Do you know if Mr. Minton paid for L M 13 T's representation Jeese Prince to receive 14 counseling at well spring?

15 A. He did not.

16 Q. He didn't. Do you know who paid for 17 Mr. Prisons?

18 A. Mr. Prisons went to well spring 19 before there was such a thing as the L M T, 20 therefore it's not a relevant question for the 21 corporate representative of Lisa McPherson 22 trust.

23 Q. Do you know if Mr. Minton paid for 24 Mr. Prisons to go to well spring? 1234 25 actually these questions were asked and

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

32 1 anxious erred in June of 2000. 6789 I had an 2 order to compel.

3 THE COURT: Well, if he's instructing 4 her her not to answer opt basis that either 5 it's privileged or it's repetitious, we'll 6 just take it up with a later time on the 7 transcripts 6789 are you instructing her, 8 Mr. Mayor it 1234 New York I'm not instructing 9 her, I'm making the objection that this has 10 been asked and answered.

11 THE COURT: Well, answer it, it would 12 be quicker to answer it than to try and find 13 out whether or not you've answered it once 14 before.

15 A. Your Honor, when Jessie went for 16 therapy, he was not a Lisa McPherson trust 17 staff member much therefore, I do in the think 18 it's appropriate for me to answer that 19 question as the corporate representative of 20 the L M T.

21 THE COURT: Well, did the corporation 22 in any way contribute any money for this 23 counseling?

24 A. No, sir much no, sir. Not in any 25 way.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

33 1 Q. I have no problem taking this up 2 whether I get to the personal part of it?

3 THE COURT: Okay.

4 Q. I'll do that. Did L M T pay for 5 Mr. Mayor it to represent Mr. Minton in the 6 case of church scientology versus Lee brick?

7 A. No.

8 Q. Did L M T pay for Mr. Leipold to 9 represent Mr. Minton in the cab better acase?

10 A. No.

11 Q. Did L M T pay Mr. Mayor it to 12 represent Mr. Minton in the deposition of the 13 McLowery case?

14 A. No.

15 Q. Were these all pro bono?

16 A. I don't know.

17 Q. Did L M T pay for Mr. Mayor it to 18 represent to you in a deposition in the 19 McLowery case?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Do you recall the T R O case 22 concerning Haas versus Minton where church 23 staff member rich Hought brought an action 24 against L M T and Minton and other individuals 25 for alleged harassment?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

34 1 A. You mean the pen ant injunction case.

2 Q. Yeah that's right it was long before 3 judge pen in this case.

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Do you recall that Mr. Dandar was 6 representing L M T in that case initially?

7 A. I don't recall. I don't recall.

8 Q. He was also representing Mr. Bunker 9 and Mr. Prisons, did you know that?

10 A. Dandar was? 1234 he's asking you if 11 you know.

12 A. I don't know.

13 Q. This may refresh your recollection 14 much it's exhibit I'll mark as Exhibit 13 it's 15 a motion brought by Mr. Dandar on behalf of L 16 M T, Jessie prisons, and Mark bunk either. It 17 says by and through their attorney Ken Dandar 18 filed on March 13th, 20000. Does that refresh 19 your recollection that Mr. Dandar was 20 representing L M T in March of 2000? In that 21 harassment case?

22 A. That's what it says.

23 Q. Does it refresh your recollection?

24 A. I really don't remember.

25 Q. Okay. Did L M T pay Mr. Dandar for

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

35 1 that representation?

2 A. No.

3 Q. Why not?

4 A. Really I don't remember.

5 Q. Have you ever received any loans from 6 L M T?

7 A. No.

8 Q. On some of the prior documents you 9 produced there was an indication of a loan to 10 you.

11 A. There was a loan from me.

12 Q. From you to L M T?

13 A. From me.

14 Q. Okay.

15 A. Of $2500.

16 Q. Did L M T pay that money back to you?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Miss summers tested other day that 19 Dell Lee brick has resigned from the board of 20 directors of L M T; is that correct?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Did you bring that with you?

23 A. Did I bring what with me?

24 Q. The statement by plaintiff Dell 25 Liebreich that she's resigning from L M T?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

36 1 A. I didn't get a statement from her.

2 Q. Miss summers said she saw it on your 3 desk last week 1234 I'm going to object to 4 testimony and argument with the witness 6789 5 if you'll let me finish the question.

6 THE COURT: Finish the question.

7 Q. Miss summers testified she found it 8 on your desk last week much do you know if you 9 had in your office a resignation letter from 10 Del Liebreich?

11 A. Not that I know of. I was told by 12 Ken Dandar.

13 Q. What did Ken Dandar tell you?

14 A. That Dell Liebreich had resigned from 15 the board.

16 Q. When did he tell you that?

17 A. Perhaps a week ago. I was ought of 18 town.

19 Q. Have you had any communications with 20 Dell Liebreich in the past month?

21 A. I had one phone call with her.

22 Q. When was that?

23 A. Perhaps ten days ago.

24 Q. Any written correspondence?

25 A. No.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

37 1 Q. Did you call her or did she call you?

2 A. I called her.

3 Q. Did you know about the resignation 4 before you called her?

5 A. No.

6 Q. Did you call her -- did you talk to 7 her about the resignation?

8 A. No.

9 Q. She also posted something on the 10 Internet recently indicating she's having 11 trouble getting money from Mr. Minton for the 12 case and is looking for other people. Did you 13 have any discussions with her about that 14 subject?

15 A. No. Do you have that post?

16 Q. Did you talk to her before or after 17 your deposition? 1234 I would ask that 18 counsel respond to the witness's inquiry much 19 he's asking her if she knows about something, 20 he should demonstrate whether or not it 21 actually exists and what it is.

22 THE COURT: Well, he's not here to 23 answer the questions, she's here to answer the 24 questions. 1234 but the question was simply 25 could she see whatever he's referring to in

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

38 1 asking her about.

2 THE COURT: If he chooses to. 1234 3 okay.

4 A. I just wondered if you had it.

5 Q. I forgot what my question was did you 6 read it back. Include File Not Found?

7 A. Before.

8 Q. Did you talk to her about your 9 deposition?

10 A. No.

11 Q. Occasion. L M T has a next telephone 12 system, right?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Is -- and that kind of phone system 15 you have a group of people that can all 16 communicate via essentially a radio 17 connection? ; is that right?

18 A. They can. I don't know how to do 19 that part.

20 Q. Is Mr. Dandar part of the group of 21 people that can communicate together?

22 A. I don't think so.

23 Q. And the reason I ask you, I proffer 24 that when you were late at your last 25 deposition, Mr. Dandar called and spoke to

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

39 1 either you or Mr. Mayor it on his next 2 telephone. Is Mr. Mayor it -- 3 Q. Did Mr. Dandar?

4 A. If he spoke to me, it would have been 5 on the phone because I don't have that thing.

6 I don't have that radio thing.

7 Q. Okay. So it's your testimony that 8 Mr. Dandar is not connected into your next 9 telephone group 1234 I'm going to object it's 10 mischaracterizing and argumentative. She said 11 she doesn't know because she doesn't know how 12 to operate the system?

13 A. That's right, she that's her answer 14 she doesn't know.

15 THE COURT: Z.

16 Q. That's clear you don't know if Mr. Dandar 17 is connected in your next telephone group?

18 A. I don't. I don't think he is much 19 I've never heard anybody do that walk I talk I 20 thing with him. But for sure I'm not, so, so 21 that's all I can tell you for sure.

22 Q. Okay I'm confused whether or not 23 you've heard anybody do a walk I talk I thing 24 with him?

25 A. No I'm say I I never have.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

40 1 Q. Do you know if Mr. Dandar is 2 connected into your next tell group or not?

3 A. No.

4 Q. Do you have a listing of the people 5 that are connected into your next tell group?

6 A. Well.

7 Q. Do you have documentation on it right 8 with next tell?

9 A. Do you mean whose phones I pay for?

10 What do you mean by connected into our group.

11 Q. There's a group of people that can be 12 connected together with next tell who can talk 13 to each other on the phones without going 14 through AT&T 1234 I'm going to object to 15 counsel testifying 6789 she asked me a 16 question?

17 THE COURT: She asked him to clarify 18 what he's asking her.

19 THE COURT: Do you know about the 20 system and whose connected to the system with 21 the trust?

22 A. I know that there's a walk I talk I 23 thing that those next tell phones can do, but 24 we don't do it and I -- I don't pay for Ken 25 Dandar's phone if that's what you mean.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

41 1 Q. Okay my question is just very simple 2 and I'll go on hopefully it's my last 3 question. Do you know or not whether or not 4 Mr. Dandar is connected into your next 5 telephone system 1234 objection asked and 6 answered at least three times?

7 THE COURT: She's answered it as far 8 as I'm concerned.

9 Q. Your answer is you don't know?

10 A. What I'd like to do is clarify. Do 11 you mean when you say connected into your 12 phones 1234 keep asking she's going to keep 13 answers 6789 she hasn't absence erred it yet.

14 A. I do have a lives phones that I pay 15 for.

16 Q. Yeah.

17 A. Are you asking is he part of that 18 list of our phones?

19 Q. Yes.

20 A. No.

21 Q. Okay. What is Mr. Prisons's job at L 22 M T?

23 A. He's one of the people that deals 24 with the people who call us for help.

25 Q. That's all?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

42 1 A. That's a full time job.

2 Q. Did L M T pay for Mr. Bunk either's 3 criminal representation?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. How much? 1234 I think it's on the 6 records that were produced the last time 6789 7 it was not. 1234 oh, sorry, you didn't ask 8 for it.

9 A. Perhaps close to $60,000.

10 Q. Why didn't you produce those 11 financial records?

12 A. What point of the production request 13 would that fall under?

14 Q. You produced bank statements, you 15 produced all your checks concerning Mr. Bunk 16 either right?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. But you didn't produce his -- the 19 money that you paid for his criminal 20 representation?

21 A. No.

22 Q. Your fees to -- you're not producing 23 it to me?

24 A. Well, I haven't. I wasn't aware that 25 it was responsive to any of the document

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

43 1 requests items.

2 Q. Why did you give me Mr. Prisons's?

3 A. Because you specifically asked for 4 that.

5 Q. For Mr. Prisons's criminal?

6 A. That was a specific thing that you 7 asked for.

8 Q. So are there?

9 A. You specifically said Jessie 10 prisons's criminal defense, number eight.

11 There wasn't any document request about Mark 12 bunk either's criminal defense.

13 Q. So you didn't consider the $60,000 14 paid for Mr. Bunk either's criminal defense to 15 be a benefit to him? Or payment on his 16 behalf?

17 A. Yes. But again, which document 18 request would that fall under? If you could 19 just clarify for me 6789 I'm not going to 20 argue with you anymore about this.

21 A. Well I'm not trying to argue.

22 Q. Mike Krotz a private investigator who 23 works for L M T, correct?

24 A. He did one job for me.

25 Q. And he's paid by L M T right?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

44 1 A. He was once.

2 Q. Okay.

3 A. Only.

4 Q. He helped to organize a concert for L 5 M T at club Moore, didn't he?

6 A. Well, actually, he did organize it.

7 L M T didn't organize it at all.

8 Q. You made a speech at that concert, 9 didn't you?

10 A. I did.

11 Q. It was videoed wasn't it?

12 A. I don't recall.

13 Q. Did you try to find the video that 14 was made of that?

15 A. I don't recall that there was a 16 video.

17 Q. Okay. Jessie prisons spoke also, 18 didn't he?

19 A. Not that I remember.

20 Q. You didn't -- you didn't do any 21 search for the videos of yourself or Jessie 22 prisons that were videoed by Mark bunk either 23 where you made a speech about scientology and 24 Lisa McPherson; is that correct? 1234 Your 25 Honor, I'm going to object. The witness has

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

45 1 testified she's not aware of the existence of 2 any such video of the question is misleading 3 and argumentative.

4 THE COURT: Overruled. You can 5 answer the question.

6 A. The question was did I do a search 7 for those videos?

8 Q. Did you do a search for any videos 9 made of you and Mr. Prisons of speeches you 10 made about scientology and Lisa McPherson at 11 this club Moore event?

12 A. Again, I can generally tell you that 13 I had our entire video website put on CD for 14 you and if it's on our website, you have it.

15 It may be on our website.

16 Q. If it's not there, I don't have it?

17 A. It's not there, I don't have it. So 18 then you don't have it. But if it's on our 19 website.

20 Q. Okay I'm going to turn now to the 21 personal deposition 1234 well then we need to 22 take a break so that I can cross-examination 23 the corporate representative 6789 well you can 24 do it at the end please?

25 THE COURT: No 6789 I ohm have two

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

46 1 hours left.

2 THE COURT: Well, I'm going to go 3 ahead and allow him to do T I don't think he's 4 going to be very long any way. 1234 it won't 5 be.

6 CROSS-EXAMINATION 7 1234.

8 Q. Miss Brooks, let me ask you first 9 off, other than the videos that are contained 10 on the exact disks that you've produced at 11 your last deposition session, does the L M T 12 have any other videos?

13 A. No.

14 Q. Okay. And do those include all 15 videos that the L M T has whether they're of 16 witnesses or not?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Okay. The -- has the practice of 19 deleting of e-mails and destruction of 20 physical documents been continuous throughout 21 the life of the L M T?

22 A. Yes, sips the day we opened.

23 Q. Okay. The credit cards that that 24 were referred to earlier in your testimony, 25 are those credit cards used for anything other

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

47 1 than L M T expenses? 6789 objection, leading.

2 THE COURT: Overruled.

3 A. No.

4 Q. Okay. Are there any expenses put on 5 them that would be -- that would not be 6 required to be reimbursed if they were paid 7 out-of-pocket?

8 A. No.

9 Q. Now, with respect to the document 10 request that was propounded to the L M T, can 11 you go through category by category and tell 12 us for the record what it is that was 13 requested and what it is that you have or that 14 you found?

15 A. Number one. Copies of letters, 16 e-mails, forms, etcetera concerning 17 communication with any government agency with 18 respect to any witness or family member of any 19 witness. None.

20 Number two, any and all forms or 21 questionairres used by an employee of the L M 22 T for compiling information or complaints on 23 any witness or family members of any witness.

24 None.

25 Three, any leaf let's, flyers or

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

48 1 other promotional material used by the L M T 2 to solicit complaints or obtain information 3 for complaints on any witness or family member 4 of any witness. None.

5 Five, any and all documents 6 concerning communications about or with Marcus 7 car reason owe and Leslie wood craft or no 8 wood crafts a demand lifts after the either 9 Lawrence is and Zoe the amendment live 10 identified witness.

11 Q. I'm sorry you're looking at your 12 production or the L M T's production? Your 13 personal or the L M T?

14 A. I'm just looking at the notes that I 15 have.

16 Q. Okay I think you have a category 17 labeled production L M T that you made notes 18 on?

19 A. Oh, sorry.

20 Q. Okay. We're talking now about the L 21 M T production?

22 A. All right I'm sorry. Number one 23 copies of letters e-mails forms etcetera 24 concerning communication with any government 25 agency, none. And this was answered on August

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

49 1 15th on page 109 and 110 of the transcript.

2 Number two was deleted. Number three 3 any and all forms or questionairres used by an 4 employee of the L M T for compiling 5 information or complaints on any witness or 6 family members of any witness. None. This 7 was incorrectly answered on October -- on 8 August is a knowledge as I misunderstood the 9 question. The correct answer is none.

10 Number four, any leaf let's flyers or 11 other promotional material used by the L M T 12 to solicit complaints or obtain information 13 for complaints on any witness or family 14 members of any witness. None. This was 15 anxious erred on page 114 of the August 15th 16 deposition.

17 Number five was deleted. Excuse me.

18 Number six, any and all documents concerning 19 communications about or with Marcus car reason 20 owe evident either wood craft ZEL wood Maria P 21 Gardenia with regard to Marcus car reason owe, 22 there are no documents other than those 23 covered in Theresa summers deposition. Only 24 Theresa summers has access to those records.

25 The other staff have been instructed and have

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

50 1 acknowledged that those records are privileged 2 and confidential and they can not look at 3 them. Wood craft. There are no documents 4 other than those covered in Theresa summers 5 deposition or contained on the website.

6 Produced to disk that contains the entire 7 website. Marie aP Gardenia she is not on 8 anyone's witness list she does not meet the 9 definition of a witness set out by the J the 10 demand is beyond the scope of discovery.

11 However, some of her statements are contained 12 on the website and are contained opt disk that 13 I have turned over. Seven, records 14 reflectsing payments to Stacy Brooks or Jessie 15 prisons not previously produced. Payroll 16 records for the year 2000 are produced for all 17 named witnesses. W-2's for the year 20000 are 18 produced against for all witnesses meaning 19 anyone whose ever been named on any witness 20 list. And all quick book records of the L M T 21 pertain to go anyone that has ever been named 22 on any witness list have been produced. 8, 23 records of payments for counsel for Jessie 24 prisons's criminal defense, those have already 25 been produced.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

51 1 Nine, all documents received 2 concerning McPherson versus scientology. This 3 was previously an erred at pages 118 to 120 on 4 August 15th. The L M T has received no 5 documents concerning the case except 6 communication from its own attorney and copies 7 of documents in the court record. There are 8 no documents other than those created by L M 9 T's attorney which are not already possessed 10 by scientology. Number 6789 what's that?

11 A. There are no documents other than 12 those created by L M T's attorney which are 13 not already possessed by scientology. Ten is 14 deleted. 11 is deleted. Ten, records of all 15 payments from Robert Minton for operating the 16 expenses and debts much this is private and 17 privileged information. It is not covered by 18 any prior orders. It is not covered by judge 19 beach's current order.

20 13 records reflecting payments to 21 Robert Minton for any purpose, this was 22 previously produced.

23 Q. Okay now let me ask you. You were 24 asked about 1099 regarding Gradey ward. Does 25 Mr. Ward's 1099 contain any information that

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

52 1 is not contained in the payroll and quick book 2 records and checks that you've already 3 produced?

4 A. No.

5 Q. Is there -- you talked briefly about 6 who videos being on Mr. Bunk either's computer 7 for editing much can you explain that briefly?

8 A. The only time videotape or video 9 material is on Mark bunk either's computer is 10 when he's editeding it. Otherwise, it isn't 11 on his computer.

12 Q. Okay. The records that have been 13 digitized and sent up to New Hampshire, do 14 they contain any statements of witnesses, 15 however witnesses are defined in this case?

16 A. Not Al all.

17 Q. Do they contain any statements by 18 anybody about this case about the death of 19 Lisa McPherson or about the action itself?

20 A. Not at all.

21 Q. Do they have anything -- have you 22 read the fifth amended complaint Zoe the 23 answer and counterclaim?

24 A. .

25 Q. Do the documents that have been

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

53 1 digitized and sent up there have anything to 2 do with any of those issues or with any 3 payments to any witness?

4 A. Not at all 6789 objection called for 5 a conclusion how this witness could possibly 6 answer that.

7 THE COURT: Overruled.

8 Q. Let's see. Other than those 9 documents that have relating to people that 10 have been assisted by the trust that have been 11 digitized and cents up to New Hampshire, are 12 all of the other documents that the L M T 13 possesses that are in any way possibility 14 responsive on the website?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. And are these are they on the disk 17 that you've tendered?

18 A. Yes. 1234 I have nothing -- oh, I'm 19 sorry. Did her declaration about the records 20 search, was that marked as an exhibit? Do you 21 have the signed copy of that, miss Brooks? I 22 think you do, actually?

23 A. I think I gave it to him. Let me 24 see. I'm sorry, yeah, here, sorry. 1234 I'd 25 like to mark that as witness's 1 and Gradey

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

54 1 ward's as the witness's two and Jeff Jacob 2 son's as the witness's 3 and Robert Minton as 3 witness's 4. 1234 I think that's everything I 4 have if we can take just about two minutes we 5 need to step out in the haul 6789 hold on I've 6 got some questions.

7 THE COURT: Oh, that's all right he 8 does.

9 Q. Can can I please have that thing 10 you're reading from miss Brooks?

11 A. Well, actually, I'd rather you let me 12 keep it until the end because it also has any 13 personal.

14 Q. Can I have it 1234 give him the part 15 that you've read?

16 A. She read the whole thing.

17 A. No, I didn't. Can I take it apart 18 and.

19 THE COURT: Yes, take it apart give 20 him the portion that you've read.

21 Q. I'll mark this statement that you've 22 read as Exhibit 14.

23 A. Can I use that stapler too, please?

24 Thank you. 6789 for your exhibits. 1234 25 okay. Thank you. 1234 there's a clip right

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

55 1 there you can use it instead.

2 A. I can do T I can do it. Thanks.

3 Q. You've refused to produce records of 4 payments from Robert Minton for operating 5 expenses and debts?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. ; is that correct?

8 A. That's correct.

9 Q. What privilege are you asserting?

10 A. I believe it's outside the scope of 11 this deposition. I don't believe it.

12 Q. You asserted a privilege. You said 13 it's privileged. I just want you to identify 14 what the privilege that's being aprivileged 15 1234 it's the privacy SKPRIFT under article 16 one of state Constitution and under the bill 17 of rights on the 14th amendment of the U.S.

18 Constitution.

19 Q. Now, you say as to request of all 20 documents received concerning McPherson, you 21 say McPherson versus scientology, that's not 22 the way the question was. There is no such 23 case much it's the estate of Lisa McPherson 24 versus church scientology flag service 25 organization et al. Is that what you meant?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

56 1 A. Yeah, that was just a shorthand.

2 Q. And you claim it was previously 3 answered at your last deposition. Concerning 4 no documents SKEPTD communication from its own 5 attorney copies of documents in the court 6 record. You also received all of the police 7 investigative files, correct?

8 A. I believe my SEM testimony was.

9 Q. No?

10 A. That I CHTD sure about that it may 11 have been Jeff Jacob son I'm not sure.

12 Q. In fact, you posted some of them on 13 your web page haven't you?

14 A. There -- I mean, I actually went back 15 at lunch and checked our website to see if we 16 have any documents about this civil case and I 17 didn't find anything.

18 Q. Okay. So you consider anything that 19 -- anything concerning the criminal case not 20 to relate in any way to the civil case it 21 doesn't relate to any of the issues in the 22 civil case? And so you didn't produce it?

23 A. Well, they aren't related to this 24 case.

25 Q. Okay I'm just asking. Is that your

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

57 1 reason for not producing any documents that 2 arose first out of the criminal case because 3 you don't think it's related to the civil 4 case?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Okay 12346789 and so the record is 7 clear are we talking about the public records, 8 documents that you already have copies of?

9 6789 I don't know what kind of objection that 10 was, I guess it's some coaching thing 1234 no, 11 it wasn't an objection I'm just trying to 12 clarify the record. I'll KUM that's correct 13 6789 your comment is noted.

14 Q. And you have -- you also mentioned at 15 your last deposition you sent some records up 16 to Mr. Mayor it much do you consider those 17 were privileged? ; is that right?

18 A. I don't remember what I said.

19 Q. Okay. Does Mr. Mayor it have any 20 documents that relating to any statements of 21 any witnesses or any videos or any financial 22 information, statements by you or Minton or 23 bunk error prisons or Armstrong or Jacob son 24 or Liebreich?

25 A. I don't know.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

58 1 Q. What were you referring to in your 2 last deposition KPU said there were some 3 records that Mr. Mayor it had that were 4 privileged? 1234 do you have your deposition?

5 A. YOCHLT.

6 Q. Well you don't need to read 1234 well 7 actually she does if if you're going to try?

8 THE COURT: If you're going to pursue 9 the question and she doesn't remember it 6789 10 if she doesn't Ren she doesn't remember.

11 THE COURT: That's fine 6789 we don't 12 need to have her read the transcript again to 13 tell me she doesn't remember.

14 A. I don't.

15 Q. That's fine. You sent a letter to 16 the defendant church scientology flag service 17 organization recently demanding certain 18 financial information collect on L M T 19 letterhead? Do you remember that?

20 A. .

21 A. No, I don't.

22 Q. I'll show you a copy of a letter 23 dated August 22nd with your signature on it.

24 See if that refreshes your recollection.

25 A. Yes.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

59 1 Q. Did you sign that or did somebody 2 sign your name?

3 A. Somebody signed it for me.

4 Q. Who?

5 A. I'm not sure.

6 Q. Jeff Jacob son?

7 A. No. I don't.

8 Q. Is this his project?

9 A. Yes, as a matter of fact, I believe I 10 asked Jeff to get these letters out for me.

11 Q. You don't think that's Jeff Jacob 12 son's copying of your signature?

13 A. I'm not really sure who did that, but 14 I don't think Jeff did.

15 Q. You September this out?

16 A. But I mean I was -- I authorized my 17 signature to be signed on because I have ought 18 of town.

19 Q. How many churches of scientology did 20 you send this note -- demand to?

21 A. 1234 can we get that marked.

22 A. Yeah. 1234 make it an exhibit?

23 Q. How many?

24 A. Maybe 30, I'm not sure of the exact 25 number. I can get it for you, but however --

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

60 1 whatever corporations there are that fall 2 under the taxpayer bill of rights.

3 Q. So you September it to all of the 4 churches of scientology that you know of?

5 A. As I said, the ones that were 6 relevant pursuant to the IRS regulations Zoe 7 the taxpayer bill of rights.

8 Q. This is about the same time that 9 we're demanding discovery from you? That the 10 church was DMAPDing discovery from you?

11 A. Well, what's the date on the letter?

12 Q. August 22nd?

13 A. The two things are totally DIS 14 related.

15 Q. Just a coincidence that?

16 A. As a matter of fact, it is. These 17 letters have been in the works for some 18 months. It has nothing to do with the Lisa 19 McPherson case.

20 Q. Mr. Jacob son working for you as a 21 has a project to collect this information?

22 A. No, I just asked him to send the 23 letters out for me because I was ought of 24 town.

25 Q. So this is really your project and

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

61 1 he's working for you?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Was the project written?

4 A. No. I mean, except for the letters.

5 Q. Do you know how to use Mr. Bunk 6 either's video editing equipment?

7 A. No.

8 Q. You don't know how he does it, do 9 you?

10 A. No.

11 Q. And did you talk to Mr. Minton about 12 every single document he has in New Hampshire 13 that's a document from the Lisa McPherson 14 trust?

15 A. No.

16 Q. You don't know exactly everything 17 he's got up there do you?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Oh, you do?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. How do you know?

22 A. Because if he has it, I sent it to 23 him. Or someone else or Theresa.

24 Q. Okay. So how do you know about it if 25 if or somebody else sent it to him. Well let

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

62 1 me ask you this you don't know what other 2 people sent to him, do you?

3 A. No.

4 Q. You've seen him recently haven't you?

5 A. Fairly recently.

6 Q. How recently?

7 A. The last time I saw him was -- what 8 day is it today? I think I got back on 9 Tuesday.

10 Q. You went to New Hampshire?

11 A. I had been in New Hampshire while he 12 was sick.

13 Q. Okay. And when you were there, did 14 you ask him who these anonymous checks came 15 from?

16 A. No.

17 Q. That you had testified about, the 18 $500,000 Zoe the 3000,000?

19 A. No.

20 Q. Did you ask him if he had any 21 agreement with the people that had given him 22 this money?

23 A. No.

24 Q. Why not?

25 A. Well, he was in the hospital, he

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

63 1 almost died, it wasn't appropriate to be 2 discussing business at the time.

3 Q. He's not in the hospital now is he?

4 A. No. Foreign LI.

5 Q. Okay. 19981234 well let me interrupt 6 we're now making the transition?

7 THE COURT: Are we now going not 8 corporate 6789 yes.

9 Q. ?

10 THE COURT: I mean the personal 6789 11 yes.

12 THE COURT: Okay let's take a break.

13 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're off the 14 video record. Is is is is is is.

15 (Discussion off the record.)

16 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're on the video 17 record.

18 Q. Why do you want go ahead and swear her in 19 NUL

From: Bob Minton <bobminton@lisatrust.net>
Subject: 3/3 McPherson V CoS -- Stacy Brooks Personal Depo -- Judge Beach Presiding 09-07-01
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 09:28:02 -0400
Organization: Lisa McPherson Trust, 33 N. Fort Harrison Ave., Clearwater, FL 33755 Tel: (727) 467-9335
Message-ID: <267kptstha0d7ttrj6p38si8ciacsacler@4ax.com>
Following the LMT depo with Stacy Brooks as Corporate representative, the personal Depo of Stacy Brooks in McPherson V Scientology commenced. Again, this is in the presence of Judge Beach, on Friday Sept 7, 2001. It is a ROUGH DRAFT, DIRTY ASCII and UNCERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT provided by court reporter on day of depo.

20 DIRECT EXAMINATION 21 6789?

22 Q. Miss Brooks you were first paid by 23 Mr. Dandar in June of 1997, correct? 1234 24 Your Honor I'm going to object at this point 25 much she is not a person who is materially in

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

64 1 paragraph 7 of your order she was formally a 2 consultant to Mr. Dandar, there were 3 affidavits filed which have been drafted in 4 other cases in this case. She has been 5 withdrawn as a witness and she's -- she 6 doesn't know anything about the facts of the 7 case and HZ no knowledge of any inducement one 8 way or the other to any witnesses?

9 THE COURT: Well, I think she can 10 answer the question and then we'll find out if 11 the money has anything to do with any work she 12 did in this case. Don't ask her the amount, 13 just ask if she was paid any amount. 6789 14 Your Honor this has already of record in the 15 case it's just a preliminary question.

16 A. Yes, I believe I've already answered 17 this question.

18 Q. All right. And as I recall, you said 19 this money was for both you and Vaughn 20 jointly; is that correct?

21 A. Yes, basically.

22 Q. What were you retained by Mr. Dandar 23 to do?

24 A. Well, primarily it was Vaughn who was 25 retainted. Mr. Dandar came and spoke to us,

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

65 1 asked us if we had any infection regarding 2 Lisa McPherson, we said no. He first asked us 3 if we had any kind of direct knowledge and we 4 said no, we did not. He then asked if we had 5 any knowledge about the general workings of 6 scientology that might help to educate him 7 about scientology and we said yes, we did have 8 that, and so at that point, he -- and on this 9 I'm a little bit unclear, but it may be that 10 he hired both of us as consultants. I really 11 don't recall what Vaughn's status -- in what 12 capacity he hired Vaughn, but subsequent to 13 that, he asked me, he obtained copies of 14 decorations that I had filed in other cases 15 and asked me if he could file those 16 decorations in his case and I said that he 17 could. I believe there were perhaps.

18 Q. I don't WAINT to interrupt the 19 witness, Your Honor, I asked her a question 20 about what she was hired to do and now I don't 21 think she's?

22 THE COURT: She's just starting what 23 she did 6789 this is a three-year period I've 24 got a lot of questions here.

25 THE COURT: Okay. 6789 we may have

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

66 1 to thin this deposition if I can't just get 2 answers I mean we'll almost certainly have 3 TOCHL it's 3:00 o'clock now.

4 A. Well, Mr. Moxon I was just answering 5 your question.

6 THE COURT: Well, he feels that 7 answer is sufficient at this point so.

8 A. Okay. 6789 okay.

9 THE COURT: Next question please.

10 Q. Were you paid any money by Mr. Dandar 11 after that?

12 A. No.

13 Q. All right. You made some public 14 statements that you'd be testifying in the 15 case, didn't you, do you remember that?

16 A. I don't.

17 Q. I'm remember you said opt Internet in 18 the posting you made 16 November 1998 here's 19 what I have to say to you D M Jessie and I 20 remember both going to testify in the 21 McPherson trial. D M is David miss calf VICH, 22 right?

23 A. Probably.

24 Q. Probably much do you have any 25 question about what you're talk GS to when you

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

67 1 say?

2 A. Well, I'd have to see the post but 3 that's probably who I meant.

4 Q. Okay much David McLennan is the EFK 5 LAERN of the scientology religion, right?

6 A. He's the chairman of the board of R 7 TC.

8 Q. Okay. We'll mark that as Exhibit 1?

9 Q. And you, besides all hearings that 10 you attended with Mr. Dandar Zoe the 11 depositions you attended, you also reviewed 12 the counseling folders of Lisa McPherson 13 correct?

14 A. Correct.

15 Q. And you did that in September of 99?

16 A. Possibly. I don't recall exactly 17 when.

18 Q. Take a look at what I'll mark as 19 Exhibit 2, see if that refreshes your 20 recollection when you posted to the Internet 21 that you were reviewing the folders in 22 Mr. Dandar's office. Does that refresh your 23 recollection?

24 A. One moment. Well, this post is dated 25 September 14th.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

68 1 Q. Right.

2 A. But I don't know -- I don't recall if 3 that was or was not the same day that we 4 looked at the folders.

5 Q. How many times did you look at 6 folders at Mr. Dandar's office?

7 A. Just that one time, as I recall.

8 Q. You did it in November 1998, 9 department you?

10 A. As I said, I don't really recall when 11 it happened. , but it wouldn't have been able 12 to be November because that was in September.

13 Q. Well, do you remember December of 14 1998 during Jerry Armstrong's deposition when 15 you were at Mr. Dandar's office with Jessie 16 prisons?

17 A. Was I in that deposition? I don't 18 believe so.

19 Q. Okay. So you claim you don't 20 remember when you were at Mr. Dandar's office 21 in November of 19981234 I'll object total 22 question as being argumentative.

23 Q. Well, are you testifying you don't 24 recall ever being in Mr. Dandar's office in 25 November of 98?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

69 1 A. No. I'm just saying I can't tell you 2 exactly when I looked at the folders.

3 Q. Okay. You were?

4 A. I did look at them I just don't 5 remember exactly whether.

6 Q. You were in Mr. Dandar's office a 7 number of times in late 98 weren't you?

8 A. That's possible.

9 Q. Okay. And throughout 99 you visited 10 Mr. Dandar's office a number of times, didn't 11 you?

12 A. Not that I recall.

13 Q. Okay. Well, I don't want to EE 14 eighty-five indicate on this number ever times 15 much how many times did you go to Mr. Dandar's 16 office during 1999 that you remember?

17 A. You know, I really don't remember.

18 Q. Okay.

19 A. Not very often.

20 Q. Less than a hundred?

21 A. Oh, definitely.

22 Q. Who was paying you during 1998 when 23 you were working with Mr. Dandar during the 24 time period that he claimed you were his 25 consultant? 1234 other than Mr. Dandar?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

70 1 Q. We know Mr. Dandar wasn't paying you.

2 Who was paying you when you were working with 3 as Mr. Dandar's consultant during 19981234 I'm 4 going to object for the reasons previously 5 stated. She has none of the information to 6 make this?

7 THE COURT: Did you have other 8 employment during that period?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. And who was that? Without telling us 11 how much you were being paid for anything, 12 just who elsewhere you employed by during that 13 period?

14 A. Other attorneys, Your Honor.

15 Q. For work on this case?

16 A. No, sir.

17 Q. For any kind of work directly or 18 indirectly that would have any bearing on this 19 case?

20 A. No, sir.

21 Q. Okay so you weren't paid anything for 22 any work on this case during 1998?

23 A. Correct.

24 Q. Okay. In 1999, did you have any 25 employment? 1234 I'm going to object for the

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

71 1 same reason, Your Honor?

2 THE COURT: Overruled.

3 A. Your Honor I have a statement I'd 4 like to read into the record at this time.

5 Q. What's it?

6 THE COURT: What's it about?

7 A. Well 1234 it's self-explanatory.

8 She's invoking a privilege.

9 THE COURT: Well then just invoke the 10 privilege.

11 A. I'd like to read this, please.

12 THE COURT: All right.

13 A. I decline to answer any questions 14 concerning my personal finances or any 15 relationship with Robert Minton and I invoke 16 my privilege against receive incrimination 17 pursuant to the consequence TUGSZ of the 18 united states and of the state of Florida for 19 the following reasons. I believe that my 20 testimony would be used to incriminate me. I 21 have with me today a copy of a chart that 22 scientology has previously offered in court.

23 The chart shows Robert Minton in the center 24 and many other names surrounding him, 25 including my name Zoe the name of the Lisa

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

72 1 McPherson trust of which I am a STF MAEB much 2 scientology is crying to create a RICO SAEB 3 ordinary other as evidenced by the fact that 4 counsel through TIZ attorney SAIBD rows even.

5 THE COURT: Excuse me you don't have 6 to read the reasons behind invoking the fifth 7 amendment. If you're invoking the fifth 8 amendment against Siff incrimination, that's 9 sufficient.

10 A. Yes, sir.

This is the full text of Stacy Brook's Statement which was entered into the record as an Exhibit:

I decline to answer any questions concerning my personal finances or my relationship with Robert Minton and I invoke my privilege against self incrimination pursuant to the constitutions of the United States and of the State of Florida for the following reasons:

I believe that my testimony would be used to incriminate me. I have with me today a copy of a chart that Scientology has previously offered in Court. The chart shows Robert Minton in the center and many other names surrounding him, including my name and the name of the Lisa McPherson Trust, of which I am President. Scientology is trying to create a RICO scenario as evidenced by the fact that Scientology through its counsel attorney Sandy Rosen referred to this chart as an "enterprise chart." "Enterprise" is a word that is used to describe a racketeering entity under the RICO statute. There have been many instances in which Scientology has succeeded in inducing criminal prosecution of Mr. Minton, persons affiliated with the Lisa McPherson Trust, and others.

Paulette Cooper, a vocal critic of Scientology's abuses was indicted on criminal charges related to a bomb threat she allegedly made against Henry Kissinger. A subsequent raid on Scientology offices by the federal government revealed that she had been framed by Scientology in an elaborate operation that included having her impersonated by a Scientologist making reckless statements about harming public figures, and stealing stationery from her home so that a threatening letter could be typed on a sheet of her letterhead bearing her fingerprints.

Gabe Cazares, former mayor of Clearwater and a critic of Scientology was the victim of a Scientology operation in which a Scientologist acted as his driver, struck a Scientologist who was posing as an uninvolved pedestrian, and attempted to make Mr. Cazares complicit in a staged hit and run, with the intention that Mr. Cazares be criminally charged in the incident.

September 10, 1998: Mr. Minton drove Jesse Prince down to Boston from New Hampshire to take him to the airport. They stopped at the Boston Scientology center to picket, and two Boston Scientologists, Frank Ofman and Kevin Hall, began assaulting Mr. Minton both verbally and physically. Frank Ofman in particular was screaming at Mr. Minton and pushing him repeatedly.

Finally Ofman grabbed Mr. Minton's picket sign and broke the stick. Mr. Minton tossed the broken end of the stick at Ofman in disgust and then called the police. But when the police came the Scientologists showed them a video in which Ofman's assault of Mr. Minton was missing and the only thing on the tape was Mr. Minton tossing the broken piece at Ofman. Under pressure from the Scientologists, the police then handcuffed Mr. Minton and arrested him for battery. Scientology immediately posted the arrest photos on the Internet and announced that Mr. Minton was a criminal. However, on December 16, the judge dismissed the charges, directing Mr. Minton to fax a notice to the Boston Scientology center before he picketed for the next three months. Although the charges were dismissed, Scientology continued to portray Mr. Minton as a criminal who had been "arrested for assault."

October 31, 1999: Mr. Minton arrived at the Tampa International Airport and was met by two Scientologists, who shouted at him, "Bob, what are you doing in our town? Get out of our town!" He and I were then followed from the airport to Clearwater, and to their hotel. Richard Howd was one of the Scientologists who followed Mr. Minton and me from the airport to our hotel. Mr. Minton stopped the car near the entrance to the hotel and got out to confront the Scientologists. While Mr. Minton spoke to the woman who was driving the car, Mr. Howd held a video camera inches from Mr. Minton's face. He continued to do this throughout the conversation, until Mr. Minton got back into his car. That evening Mr. Minton picketed in front of the Fort Harrison Hotel, and again Richard Howd was there, keeping a video camera inches from his face as he walked back and forth picketing. I was also there, videotaping so that there would be a record of what happened, as the presence of Mr. Howd was a disturbing signal that the harassment against Mr. Minton was escalating.

Finally, as Mr. Minton rounded the corner of the building, two Scientologists blocked Ms. Brooks so that she could not follow with her camera. Richard Howd pushed Mr. Minton while he was sure he was not being videotaped. At this point Mr. Minton decided to call the police. He began to cross the street and pulled out his cell phone to call, but Richard Howd followed Mr. Minton across the street, holding the video camera close to Mr. Minton's ear. Mr. Minton turned around and told Howd to get away from him, thrusting his sign at him defensively. The sign grazed Howd's eyebrow. Immediately Howd fell to the ground, moaning as if he were in extreme pain. The police arrived and the Scientologists showed them the videotape of Mr. Minton thrusting his sign at Howd as he crossed the street. Because there was no videotape of Howd's earlier assault on Mr. Minton, the Scientologists were able to convince the police to arrest Mr. Minton. He was handcuffed and taken to the Pinellas County Jail, arrested for battery. Scientology immediately began to send Mr. Minton's mug shot to his friends and neighbors in an effort to identify him as a criminal.Mr. Minton was acquitted at trial in March 2000.

January 25, 2000: Mark Bunker, the LMT's multi-media coordinator, was arrested in Chicago for criminal trespassing as he stood on a public sidewalk to film two dentists who were requesting their money back from the Scientology organization in downtown Chicago. Mr. Bunker was filming the dentists outside the entrance when two off-duty Chicago police officers hired by Scientology burst out of the building, grabbed his camera from him and handcuffed him. Mr.

Bunker was taken to jail, booked, and charged with criminal trespassing despite two eyewitnesses who swore he was standing on the public sidewalk. Mr. Bunker was acquitted at trial.

February 2000: LMT staff member Jesse Prince met a man in a pool hall where Mr. Prince and his fiance had gone to play pool. He introduced himself as Rinsey Trinidad and invited Mr. Prince to go outside with him to smoke marijuana. The man, whose real name was Barry Gaston, was a private investigator hired by Scientology to befriend Jesse and set him up on drug-buying charges. Mr. Prince was eventually arrested and charged with possession of marijuana based on the recovery of a plant approximately 18" in height found on his back porch. Mr. Prince's trial resulted in a hung jury, 5 - 1 for acquittal. After the mistrial, the charge was dropped by the Office of the State Attorney.

In April 2000, John Fashanu, a retired soccer player from Nigeria, released a report that contained false allegations that Mr. Minton was involved in the theft of billions of dollars from the Nigerian government and that he was involved in a massive money-laundering scheme. Several articles appeared in England and Nigeria in which the media quoted this so-called Fashanu Report. Although Fashanu claimed it had taken him three years to compile the information, it was later established that Scientology private investigators had provided Fashanu with the completed report. Most of the documents appeared to have come from a burglary of the office of Mr. Minton's former partner, Jeff Schmidt.

Further investigation revealed that the Nigerian head of OPEC, Rilwanu Lukman, had been a Scientologist since at least 1984 and, together with top Scientology operatives, had handpicked Fashanu to present Scientology's trumped-up charges against Mr. Minton to the public and whatever prosecutors would listen. Later, the Nigerian High Commissioner in London, Prince Bola Ajibola, wrote to a prosecutor in Geneva, Switzerland, General Bernard Bertossa, accusing Mr. Minton of money-laundering and fraud against the Nigerian government and asking Bertossa to press criminal charges against Mr. Minton. Prince Ajibola's complaint was based entirely on the Scientology-written Fashanu Report.

An investigation by the Nigerian Senate cleared Mr. Minton of any wrongdoing, and the Swiss government has refused to take any action based on Scientology's allegations. However, this episode is illustrative of Scientology's unending quest to bring about criminal prosecution of those it perceives as enemies. Scientology has waged a relentless, five-year campaign to get Mr. Minton prosecuted on false criminal charges. They have sent teams of operatives to Nigeria, Turkey, England, Germany, Switzerland and other countries in a multi-million-dollar, global attempt to force Mr. Minton to stop his efforts to expose Scientology's fraud and abuse.

In June 2000, Ursula Caberta, head of a task force established by the Hamburg government to investigate Scientology, visited Clearwater on vacation.

Scientology operatives harassed her at her hotel throughout her stay. While Ms.

Caberta ate dinner with Mr. Minton and Ms. Brooks in a hotel dining room, two Scientologists interrupted them and began to harass Ms. Caberta, telling her that she should go back to Germany.

Scientologists stationed themselves outside her hotel room door so that she could not leave her room without running a gauntlet of harassive Scientologists. The next day, two people passed themselves off to the hotel desk clerks as off-duty plain-clothes police officers. In fact, these two men were Daniel Otero, a Scientology private investigator, and Robert Bossard, a process server working for Scientology. Believing them to be police officers, the hotel clerk directed them to Ms. Caberta's room. There, Otero, Bossard and several Scientologists began to harass Caberta, yelling and pounding on her hotel door and sliding subpoenas for deposition in the Lisa McPherson wrongful death case, in which Ms. Caberta had no involvement, under the door.

Ms. Caberta, an official of the Hamburg government, was forced to testify in deposition in the Lisa McPherson wrongful death case based on false allegations Scientology attorney Kendrick Moxon made to the court. She was asked if she had ever been given any money by Mr. Minton. She testified that she had asked Mr. Minton to loan her a sum of money to deal with a personal matter, and that he had generously done so. Immediately after her deposition, Scientology compiled a complaintand presented it to a German prosecutor, claiming that Ms. Caberta had taken a bribe from Mr. Minton. In fact, Mr.

Minton had providedthis money solely as a personal favor and had not asked for anythingin return. However, the prosecution initiated by Scientology against Mr. Minton and Ms. Caberta continues to this day.

In 1997, Scientology moved a team of operatives into my neighborhood in Seattle, Washington. These paid operatives launched a campaign of harassment and intimidation against my husband and me and our entire neighborhood in an effort to silence my outspoken criticism of Scientology's fraud and abuse, including abuse of the legal system. Throughout 1997 and 1998, these Scientology operatives repeatedly tried to initiate prosecution of me on criminal animal abuse charges so that they could, per their policies, label me a criminal. They were not successful. They attempted, through false allegations to the mental health authorities in Seattle, Washington, to have me committed to a mental institution. This was also unsuccessful.

I have no personal knowledge about the facts of the complaint or counterclaim in this case. For that reason, and because of Scientology's history and policy of inducing authorities to institute false criminal charges against its critics, I believe that any information gathered by Scientology concerning my personal finances or my relationship with Mr. Minton will be used to subject me to prosecution. I therefore refuse to answer any such questions.

End of Statement
11 Q. So the question could you read the 12 question back, please?

13 Q. You're asserting the fifth amendment 14 privilege against receive incrimination for 15 that question 1234 don't answer that?

16 THE COURT: Well, will you answer the 17 question or not.

18 A. No, sir.

19 THE COURT: Why?

20 A. Please refer to my prior answer regarding 21 scientology's history of inducing authorities 22 to institute false.

23 THE COURT: Are you invoking the 24 fifth amendment?

25 A. Yes, sir.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

73 1 THE COURT: Okay. 1234 and she's 2 invoking it as to any questions relatesing to 3 her personal finances or her relationship with 4 ROBTD Minton.

5 THE COURT: Well she's going to have 6 to go question by question.

7 Q. Question number three in the order of 8 January 10th 2001, which this witness was 9 ordered to answer is, and I'm asking you this 10 now, quote, were you receiving money from 11 Robert Minton during 1998 and 1999 when you 12 were working for Mr. Dandar.

13 A. Please refer to my prior answer 14 regarding scientology's history of inducing 15 authorities to institute false criminal 16 charges against 6789 move to strike.

17 THE COURT: I'm ordering you, you 18 have if you have a question to SKPRAIZ it's 19 fifth amendment say I refuse to answer opt 20 basis that it may incriminate me and invoke my 21 rights under the fifth amendment that's all we 22 need to hear.

23 Q. Let me give you the question again?

24 THE COURT: Because we're going to 25 stay here until we finish this deposition

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

74 1 today.

2 A. Yes, sir.

3 Q. Whether it's 5:00 o'clock or 5 in the 4 morning tomorrow we're going to finish this 5 deposition.

6 A. Yes, sir.

7 Q. Were you paid by anyone other than 8 Mr. Minton during 1998 and 1999 to work for 9 Mr. Dandar? I'm sorry. That's not the 10 question of it's the next one.

11 The question is were you receiving 12 money from ROBLT Minton during 1998 and 1999 13 when you were working for Mr. Dandar?

14 A. I refuse to answer that question 15 based on my fifth amendment privilege.

16 Q. Were you paid by anyone other than 17 Mr. Minton during 1998 and 1999 to do work for 18 Mr. Dandar?

19 A. No.

20 Q. Did you have any employment during 21 1999?

22 A. I refuse to answer based on privilege 23 under the fifth amendment.

24 Q. Well whether or not she was employed 25 in 1999 doesn't seem like it could possibly

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

75 1 lead to receive incrimination. Did you file 2 any tax returns in 1999?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Did you -- did you indicate any 5 income in your tax return?

6 A. I refuse to answer based on my fifth 7 amendment privilege.

8 Q. Did you receive any 1099's during 9 1999? For work done in 1999?

10 A. I refuse to answer based on my fifth 11 amendment privilege.

12 Q. Did you receive any W-4's during 13 1999?

14 A. I refuse to answer based on my fifth 15 amendment privilege.

16 Q. Was Mr. Dandar aware that you were 17 being paid by Mr. Minton during 199 the when 18 you were working for Mr. Dandar?

19 A. I refuse to answer based on my fifth 20 amendment privilege.

21 Q. Do you recall that the first Dave 22 your deposition there was some discussion 23 about money you received from Mr. Minton in 24 1997 that was $30,000 allegedly earmarked to a 25 cat sanctuary and $20,000 to you personally?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

76 1 A. I refuse to answer based on my first 2 amendment privilege -- fifth amendment 3 privilege, sorry.

4 Q. Did you pay Mr. Minton back any of 5 that money he gave you in 1997, either the 6 $30,000 or the $20,000?

7 A. I refuse to answer based on my fifth 8 amendment privilege.

9 Q. Did Mr. Minton pay for any of your 10 expenses during the year 1998?

11 A. I rerefuse to answer based on my 12 fifth amendment privilege.

13 Q. Did you receive any money for your 14 personal benefit from Mr. Minton during 1998?

15 A. I refuse to answer based on my fifth 16 amendment privilege.

17 Q. Who has the books, if anyone, on your 18 cat sanctuary that you had in 1997, the 19 financial records?

20 A. I refuse to answer based on my fifth 21 amendment privilege.

22 Q. Did Mr. Minton arrange for you to 23 receive funds from any other source than 24 himself during 1999?

25 A. I refuse to answer based on fifth

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

77 1 amendment privilege.

2 Q. Did you receive any money from any 3 agent of Mr. Minton during 1999?

4 A. I refused to answer based on fifth 5 amendment privilege.

6 Q. Did you receive any money from any 7 lawyer hired by Mr. Minton in 199?

8 A. I refused to answer based on fifth 9 amendment.

10 Q. The same question for 1998 11 A. I refuse to answer based on my fifth 12 amendment privilege.

13 Q. Did you receive any money from 14 Mr. Minton for either hotel accommodations or 15 for airfare during 1998?

16 A. I refuse to answer based on fifth 17 amendment privilege.

18 Q. Did Mr. Minton contribute anything to 19 the house you open here in Clearwater or 20 Bellaire?

21 A. I refuse to answer based on fifth 22 amendment privilege.

23 Q. Did any part of the down payment on 24 the house come from funds provided by 25 Mr. Minton?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

78 1 A. I refuse to answer based on fifth 2 amendment privilege.

3 Q. Who is your realtor? That you used 4 to buy the house?

5 A. I refuse to answer based on fifth 6 amendment privilege.

7 Q. Do you know who the title company is?

8 A. No.

9 Q. What did the house cost?

10 A. I refuse to answer based on fifth 11 amendment privilege.

12 Q. Did Mr. Minton give you a credit card 13 for your personal use?

14 A. I refuse to answer based on fifth 15 amendment privilege.

16 Q. Miss Brooks were you given a house in 17 Clearwater by anyone who has a financial 18 interest in this case?

19 A. Your Honor, I need to clarify 20 something with my attorney about my fifth 21 amendment rights.

22 THE COURT: Okay much go ahead.

23 A. Thank you.

24 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're off the 25 video CHLTD.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

79 1 (Discussion off the record.)

2 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're on the record.

3 Could you read the question back to the 4 answer.

5 A. I refuse to anxious based on fifth 6 amendment privilege.

7 Q. Have you been instructed to refuse to 8 answer the questions that I've asked you by 9 invoking the fifth amendment?

10 A. Excuse me?

11 Q. Have you been instructed by anyone to 12 invoke the fifth amendment?

13 A. No.

14 Q. Have you talked to anyone other than 15 Mr. Mayor it about invoking the fifth 16 amendment to these questions?

17 A. No.

18 Q. Did you talk to Mr. Minton about it?

19 A. No.

20 Q. Have you assisted Mr. Minton in 21 transferring moneys TLOO L M T back to 22 Mr. Minton?

23 A. 1234 the records that you produced 24 speak for themselves I don't think you should 25 answer it further.

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

80 1 A. I refuse based on fifth amendment 2 privilege.

3 Q. Have you assisted Mr. Minton to avoid 4 the payment of taxes by paying back to him -- 5 let me give you this question again. Have you 6 assisted Mr. Minton to avoid the payment of 7 taxes by transferring money through L M T's 8 accounts?

9 A. I refuse to answer based on fifth 10 amendment privilege.

11 Q. Do you know if any of the $800,000 12 that was received into the accounts at L M T 13 that you assisted Mr. Minton to get was 14 actually Mr. Minton's money in the first 15 place?

16 A. I refuse to answer based on fifth 17 amendment privilege.

18 Q. Do you have any credit cards other 19 than your L M T card for which the bills are 20 paid by someone else?

21 A. I refuse to answer based on fifth 22 amendment privilege.

23 Q. On your last deposition you said that 24 Mr. Minton never gave you any jewelry. I'd 25 like you to reconsider that question and tell

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

81 1 me if that was an accurate answer.

2 A. I refuse to answer based on fifth 3 amendment privilege.

4 Q. Have you traveled abroad with 5 Mr. Minton to assist him in transferring 6 moneys from Europe back to the united states 7 through the L M T?

8 A. I refuse to answer based on fifth 9 amendment privilege.

10 Q. Were you with Mr. Minton when 11 withdrew funds from any Swiss bank accounts to 12 transfer back to L M T?

13 A. I refuse to answer based on fifth 14 amendment privilege.

15 Q. Does anyone with a financial interest 16 in this case given you a car?

17 A. I refuse to answer based on fifth 18 amendment privilege.

19 Q. Do you receive any income from the 20 Lisa McPherson trust outside of your salary?

21 A. I refuse to answer based on fifth 22 amendment privilege.

23 Q. Do you know if the shares of the Lisa 24 McPherson trust have been valued?

25 A. I refuse to answer based on fifth

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

82 1 amendment privilege.

2 Q. Did Mr. Minton pay for your trip to 3 well spring?

4 A. I refuse to answer based on fifth 5 amendment privilege.

6 Q. When you were at well spring, were 7 you -- did you receive any coaching there on 8 testimony?

9 A. I refuse to answer based on fifth 10 amendment privilege.

11 Q. Did Jessie prisons and Vaughn young 12 receive coaching at well spring or counseling 13 at well spring about how to testify?

14 A. I refuse to answer based on fifth 15 amendment privilege.

16 Q. When you were at well spring, did 17 they counsel you to correct your opinions 18 about scientology 1234 I would object and in 19 addition to whatever privilege the witness may 20 invoke inter pose the psychotherapist patient 21 privilege much she's not obliged to disclose 22 anything that happened in the counseling?

23 THE COURT: Is that a -- was she 24 there for some type of counseling 1234 yes.

25 A. Yes, Your Honor 1234 it's a licensed

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

83 1 therapeutic organization #CHLTD well, that's 2 an allegation but a number of witnesses in 3 this case were sent to this case Caldwell 4 spring which is a quote anti cult counseling 5 center in rural Ohio that includes Jessie 6 prisons.

7 A. That's incorrect, Your Honor.

8 THE COURT: Jessie prisons Vaughn 9 young Carson Lawrence and miss BROO*IKZ Brooks 10 prior to their version of testimony in this 11 case and Mr. Minton testified that he gave 12 money to well spring for their counseling.

13 THE COURT: Well she's invoking her 14 privilege, which there is a STATD TOER 15 privilege on disclosures between patient and 16 counselor, she has a right to do that and if 17 that's what she said, therefore, if she 18 considers she was there for, she has a right 19 to invoke it. If you have evidence to the 20 contrary that it was not set up for counseling 21 but some other purpose, you can present that 22 on a motion to require her to answer the 23 questions 6789 very good.

24 Q. You were already retained by Mr. Dandar 25 when you were sent to well spring isn't that

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

84 1 correct?

2 A. I refuse to answer based on fifth 3 amentioned want privilege.

4 Q. You didn't pay for the trip to well 5 spring yourself, did you?

6 A. I refuse to answer based on fifth 7 amendment privilege.

8 Q. Did you discuss with Mr. Dandar any 9 means to use the L M T as a for profit 10 corporation to conceal Mr. Minton's money 11 transfers?

12 A. I refuse to answer based on fifth 13 amendment privilege.

14 Q. Have you discussed with Mr. Minton 15 ways to use L M T as a for profit corporation 16 and conceal Mr. Minton's money TRANZ FERZ?

17 A. I refuse to answer based on fifth 18 amendment privilege.

19 Q. Have you discussed with Jessie 20 prisons ways to use L M T as a for profit 21 corporation to conceal Mr. Minton's money 22 transfers?

23 A. I refuse to answer based on fifth 24 amendment privilege.

25 Q. Have you discussed with Mr. Minton

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

85 1 ways to use L M T as a for profit corporation 2 to conceal payments to witnesses or 3 consultants against the church?

4 A. I refuse to answer based on fifth 5 amendment privilege.

6 Q. Have you discussed with Mr. Dandar 7 ways to use L M T as a vehicle to conceal 8 payments to witnesses and consultants against 9 the church?

10 A. Your Honor I'm sorry can I just ask 11 my attorney another question, please?

12 THE COURT: Sure.

13 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're off the 14 record.

15 (Discussion off the record.)

16 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're on the video 17 record. Include File Not Found.

18 A. I invoke my fifth amendment privilege.

19 Q. Were you at well spring at the same 20 time that Jessie prisons was there?

21 A. No.

22 Q. Do you know who paid for Vaughn 23 young's expenses for his treatment at well 24 spring?

25 A. I invoke my fifth amendment

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

86 1 privilege.

2 Q. Do you know who weighed for witness 3 car STON Lawrence to go to well spring?

4 A. No.

5 Q. Do you know if Hanna Whitfield went 6 to well spring?

7 A. No.

8 Q. Do you know what the financial 9 arrangement is between Mr. Dandar and Hanna 10 Whitfield?

11 A. No.

12 Q. Is there anybody who makes decisions 13 on what money to give to witnesses other than 14 you from L M T?

15 A. I'm going to invoke my fifth 16 amendment privilege.

17 Q. Have you arranged for Vaughn young to 18 receive any money other than what was paid to 19 him by Mr. Dandar directly?

20 A. I invoke my fifth amendment 21 privilege.

22 Q. Have you assisted anyone in the 23 preparation of any affidavits in this case?

24 A. No.

25 Q. Have you assisted Jessie prisons in

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

87 1 the preparation of any affidavits in this 2 case?

3 A. No.

4 Q. Did you assist Steven Kent in any way 5 or talk to him concerning the preparation of 6 his affidavit for this case?

7 A. No.

8 Q. The same question as to Vaughn young, 9 did you assist him in any fashion to prepare 10 any affidavits for this case?

11 A. No.

12 Q. Did you assist Vaughn young in 13 preparation for his testimony in this case?

14 A. No.

15 Q. There were several affidavits you 16 produced today, where were those prepared?

17 What was your affidavit that you produced 18 today prepared?

19 A. Are you referring to the declaration 20 that I submitted?

21 Q. That's correct. 1234 I'm sorry which 22 exhibit? 6789 it's the declaration from the 23 prior deposition, the L M T deposition. Here.

24 It was witness Exhibit No. 1 regarding 25 retention and document destruction. It's an

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

88 1 exhibit to the L M T corporate representative 2 deposition of today. Where was that prepared?

3 A. In my office.

4 Q. With who?

5 A. With me and my attorney.

6 Q. Your attorney is Mr. Mayor it?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Did you receive any advice of counsel 9 at the time that you were traveling with 10 Mr. Minton in Europe before the money 11 transfers were made to L M T of the $800,000.

12 1234 that's attorney client privilege don't 13 answer it.

14 THE COURT: He's not asking for the 15 advice given, he just wants to know whether or 16 not she consulted with a lawyer 1234 I believe 17 it's a fact of consultation with counsel is 18 privileged. I mean it's nobody's business 19 whether she talks to a lawyer much that's an 20 absolute right and she doesn't have to ZBLSH.

21 THE COURT: I'm not really sure on that 22 so I'll go ahead and give you the benefit of 23 the doubt 6789 I don't have any cases on that 24 here either, Your Honor, but I know that in 25 Florida, the fact of representation is not

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

89 1 privileged, nor is the, for example, the fee 2 paid to an attorney, but the fact of 3 representation is not privileged in Florida.

4 You can call my partner probably and get a 5 case for you, but I'm only asking.

6 THE COURT: He says it is, you say it 7 isn't, I don't know. 6789 okay. Any way 8 you're instructing the witnesses.

9 THE COURT: He's raised it. 1234 once 10 he's clarified the question does it go to the 11 fact of representation the question was did 12 you consult with an attorney. 6789 okay. So 13 let me clarify the question so we have it 14 clean on the records.

15 Q. Did you consult with an attorney with 16 respect to the withdrawal of funds or a 17 transfer of funds from Europe to the L M T?

18 THE COURT: Now I think when you get 19 into subject matter, that clearly is a 20 privilege 6789 okay much all right. Let me 21 try again.

22 Q. Did you -- did you consult with any 23 attorney at the time that you were traveling 24 with Mr. Minton in Europe prior to the 25 transfer of funds back to L M T?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

90 1 A. I invoke my fifth amendment 2 privilege.

3 THE COURT: Well, the question is the 4 fifth amendment or is it attorney-client 5 privilege? That's the question. 1234 it's 6 both.

7 THE COURT: Both. Okay. Then my 8 ruling on it is moot.

9 Q. Do you remember testimony of Jessie 10 prisons where he said he had -- he had made a 11 deal with you that as long as he tipped to 12 testify against scientology, that he would be 13 paid?

14 A. No.

15 Q. Let's see if I can refresh your 16 recollection if you'd look at the highlighted 17 portions. What I'm marking as Exhibit 4 to 18 this deposition, which is a excerpts of the 19 deposition of Jessie prisons on August 19th, 20 1998. 6789 here's a copy. 1234 what page is 21 that miss Brooks?

22 A. Sorry, 372.

23 THE COURT: Did you mean for me to 24 see this? 6789 if you wish.

25 Q. This agreement that Mr. Prisons is

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

91 1 talking about that he made with you, who were 2 you working for when you made that agreement 3 with him?

4 A. That's not what his testimony says.

5 Q. Page -- well, whatever you think his 6 testimony says, page 370 he said he made an 7 agreement with you, line 17 through 19, 8 reached an understanding with you. Page 372 9 says so let's see if I've got this straight.

10 You reached an agreement with miss young about 11 a month ago that as long as you continue to 12 cooperate and assist in this case, you'd be 13 paid all of your expenses including walking 14 around money in an oral agreement you reached 15 with miss young. No witnesses, and no writing 16 confirm THG have I said it right now?

17 A. And he says not quite, sir.

18 Q. He does, indeed. And he's asked tell 19 me the question where did I go wrong you were 20 went wrong in limiting it to this case because 21 there's other cases that are in scientology 22 that?

23 A. You needs to finish here because he's 24 still trying to clarify because Rosen is still 25 saying it wrong. And then Jessie goes on to

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

92 1 say there's other activities that I do, are 2 projected to do beyond just working on this 3 particular case.

4 Q. Right.

5 A. So I will tell you that as far as I'm 6 concerned, the only agreement that I ever made 7 with Jessie prisons was that he would work 8 with us on the work that we were doing.

9 Q. Who were you -- were you employed by 10 anyone when you made this agreement with 11 Mr. Prisons?

12 A. I refuse to answer based on my fifth 13 amendment privilege.

14 Q. Who is the money supposed to come 15 from to pay Mr. Prisons to testify against 16 scientology in various cases?

17 A. I refuse to answer based on fifth 18 amendment privilege.

19 Q. I've marked as Exhibit 3 a photograph 20 can you please identify who the people are in 21 this photograph?

22 A. That's Jessie prisons, me, Michael 23 GASHG okay Ken Dandar, Bob minute to be.

24 Q. This is in front of the Pinellas 25 County courthouse, right?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

93 1 A. It looks like it. Yes. It says so.

2 Q. Were you working for -- well, who are 3 you working for at that time? Who were you 4 employed by?

5 A. I refuse to -- what do I say again?

6 I refuse to answer based on fifth amendment 7 privilege.

8 Q. Do you know if Mr. Dandar has 9 received any money for the costs in this case 10 from anyone other than Mr. Minton?

11 A. No. I don't know.

12 Q. Have you had any discussions with 13 Mr. Minton about setting up somebody else to 14 give money to Mr. Dandar as well?

15 A. I refuse to answer based on fifth 16 amendment privilege.

17 Q. When you talked to Dell Liebreich 18 last week, did you talk to her about the 19 prospects of settling the case?

20 A. No.

21 Q. Have you had any discussions with her 22 about how to divide the proceeds of this case?

23 A. No.

24 Q. Do you know if Mr. Dandar has 25 informed Mr. Minton from time to time when he

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

94 1 needed additional funds is this?

2 A. No.

3 Q. Do you know if Mr. Minton gave Hanna 4 Whitfield any money?

5 A. No. Mr. Fugate had a question for 6 you I think.

7 Q. There's a posting dated October 1st, 8 1999 on the Internet that's purportedly from 9 you. Can you tell me if -- to David miss calf 10 VICH. Did you make that posting to the 11 Internet?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. In it you said at the end you and all 14 of the people who have carried out orders from 15 you that have led to the to scientology's 16 existence should resign?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Who were you working for when you 19 made that posting?

20 A. F U stands for fifth amendment 21 privilege.

22 Q. I'll mark that as number five.

23 Q. You made another posting to the inter 24 jet January 10th, 2000. Stating that Lisa 25 McPherson trust is open for business. Is that

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

95 1 your posting?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. We'll mark that as Exhibit 6. I'm 4 handing you another POEFRTing which is dated 5 21 January 2000 signed by you is that a 6 posting made by you on the inter net?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Mark that as Exhibit No. 7.

9 Q. There is a posting made by Bob Minton 10 on the incident net on February 2nd, 2000 KM 11 attaches an alleged report from Brenda hue 12 better. Do you remember that incident where 13 he attached a reported about Brenda hue better 14 concerning Lisa McPherson?

15 A. No.

16 Q. Do you remember where Mr. Minton got 17 this report?

18 A. No.

19 Q. Have you assisted Mr. Minton to 20 provide funds to any lawyers other than 21 Mr. Dandar for litigation against any churches 22 of scientology? 1234 in the first instance I 23 would object because that's clearly outside 24 the scope of anything related to this case, 25 especially regarding another litigation which

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

96 1 is clearly not permitted?

2 THE COURT: I think it is in this 3 particular case. Overruled.

4 A. I refuse to answer based on first -- 5 fifth amendment privilege.

6 Q. You've attended a number of 7 demonstrations outside the church isn't that 8 right?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Carried signs? Yes?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. You were there when some other people 13 were using bull horns -- not a bull horn but a 14 MEG aphone?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Correct?

17 A. Once.

18 Q. Were you on salary with R L M T 19 during the times you were doing that?

20 A. I refuse to answer based on fifth 21 amendment privilege.

22 Q. Did you know that some of the people 23 -- some of these demonstrations you were doing 24 were right at the entrance to the dining haul 25 for church staff members correct on waters

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

97 1 avenue?

2 A. Across the street.

3 Q. Yeah. That's a very narrow street, 4 right, it's two lane a little two lane street, 5 right, Watterson?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Did you know that some of the 8 attendants to Lisa McPherson when STHEFS 9 staying at the for the Harrison hotel were 10 among the people that you were demonstrating 11 against there?

12 A. No. I'd like to clarify that. I 13 wasn't demonstrating against them much I was 14 letting them know they could come ask talk to 15 me if they wanted to.

16 Q. And you know that some of these 17 people are witnesses in the case, right?

18 A. No, I didn't know that. I was just 19 clarifying that you were saying I was 20 demonstrating against them and I never did 21 that.

22 Q. So your purpose of your demonstration 23 was to try to get these people to come down to 24 L M T to talk to you?

25 A. Just to let them know that they had

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

98 1 that option.

2 A. And that's all I ever did when I was 3 involved in any of those things.

4 Q. Didn't you know that those, all of 5 the church staff are represented by counsel in 6 this case?

7 A. I'm sore any.

8 Q. Did you know that all of the church 9 staff are represented by counsel in this case?

10 A. No. What does that have to do with 11 it?

12 Q. Well it has a lot to do with it if 13 you're workings for Mr. Minton. 1234 they're 14 supposed to keep them locked up if they have 15 counsel.

16 Q. Just answer the question.

17 A. Sorry, sir. 6789 I'm going to take a 18 quick break and see if I can wrap this up.

19 THE COURT: Okay.

20 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're off the 21 video record. Break break 22 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're back on the 23 video record.

24 Q. Did L M T or Mr. Minton pay for any 25 people to come to Clearwater for

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

99 1 demonstrations?

2 A. Could you repeat that question, 3 please?

4 Q. Sure. Did L M T or Mr. Minton pay 5 for any people to come to Clearwater for 6 demonstrations?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Who did they pay for?

9 A. One person.

10 Q. Whose that?

11 A. Dena homes.

12 Q. Who paid?

13 A. I think Bob Minton.

14 Q. How about Dell Liebreich were Dell 15 Liebreich's expenses ever paid by Mr. Minton 16 to come to Clearwater?

17 A. Not that I know of.

18 Q. How about rod Keller?

19 A. Not that I know of.

20 Q. Jerry Armstrong?

21 A. No. Not that I know of.

22 Q. Have you discussed or assisted 23 Mr. Minton in providing any moneys to Dell 24 Liebreich or Ann Carlson?

25 A. I refuse to answer based on fifth

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

100 1 amendment privilege. 6789 well we're 2 suspending the deposition then at this point 3 to research these issues and see if we come 4 back or not. I don't know with respect to 5 these privileges that have been asserted and 6 their refusal to answers, but we're done for 7 the time being.

8 THE COURT : Okay. 1234 judge, I'm 9 sorry, I have to inter pose an option to 10 suspension of the deposition. You have 11 instructed that if she's invoking a privilege, 12 she has to do it question by question, they 13 need to ask every question that they have to 14 ask. Rather than have this thing played out 15 interm BLI she's been deposed for about 20 16 hours in this case already and I mean this is 17 the fourth day, third day, fourth day, fifth 18 day that she's been back. Because -- if, for 19 no other reason, because you have required her 20 to invoke a privilege question by question 21 we're not at the end of the business day are 22 the deposition should not be suspend the SUNT 23 to being corn VEEPD you asked that she finish 24 it I'm asking that STHE finish it it was the 25 only time she was order Todd come back if

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

101 1 they've got questions they need to ask, not 2 SKUR I off and come one more questions and a 3 new request for production like they did this 4 last time we need to go ahead and finish.

5 THE COURT: As far as I know we're 6 finished. He just said we're quitting for the 7 day. 1234 well there's a difference much I 8 mean they're talking about suspending the 9 deposition subject to some future litigation.

10 I mean the deposition needs to be either it's 11 over or it's not. If it's not over we need to 12 stay here until they've asked all the 13 questions that I asked 6789 Mr. Merit it's 14 clear enough to awful us that she's not going 15 to come back without a further or the order of 16 the court and a motion so if TWE seek to have 17 her come back and you decline on the witness 18 declines it will be subject to future 19 litigation, so I may have follow up questions 20 if these -- some of these don't get upheld 21 that I need to take a look at I didn't expect 22 her to be asserting the fifth amendment and I 23 frankly don't know. In any event, I have 24 other follow up questions that I would ask her 25 if she answered some of these, but clearly

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

102 1 we're not going to come back without further 2 court order so 1234 I need to know if the 3 deposition is over or not.

4 THE COURT: It's over today from what I 5 can see. 1234 judge, I beg -- I mean I'm not 6 intending any disrespect but that's.

7 THE COURT: Well you're asking me 8 something that's going to happen in the future 9 he's going to file a motion to compel her to 10 answer these questions that she doesn't have a 11 right to answer the invoke the fifth amendment 12 and that has to be resolved and I can't say 13 that this deposition is finished if he's going 14 to raise these issues at a future hearing 1234 15 well, my point though is this, then what we 16 need to do is make a very clear record that he 17 has no questions to ask other than follow ups 18 to questions that have not been answered.

19 That we've already.

20 THE COURT: ; is that correct 6789 that's 21 correct. 1234 okay. So we've -- we've 22 covered the scope of this examination?

23 THE COURT: I -- ask him I'm not the one 24 taking the deposition. 6789 other than follow 25 ups to questions she's declined to answer, the

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

103 1 deposition is concluded. 1234 okay. Well, 2 we're going to attach as a witness's Exhibit 1 3 to this deposition 6789 what is that 1234 it's 4 a written statement.

5 A. Let me just.

6 A. 6789 did you make a copy of is it?

7 A. Yeah. 6789 wait wait what is this 8 1234 if the court reporter has a sticker, here 9 we go. 6789 what's this? 6789 well, I didn't 10 see this before. Who -- let me ask you a 11 question about this if you want to X attach it 12 as a exhibit. 1234 just give me a seconds.

13 6789 go ahead and mark it.

14 A. That's my full statement RASHDing my 15 fifth amendment privilege.

16 Q. Okay CHLTD?

17 A. And I want it part of the record, 18 please.

19 Q. That's what we've marked as Exhibit 20 No. 1?

21 A. Is that number one? SL okay. 1234 22 it's witness a Exhibit No. One.

23 A. Who wrote this?

24 Q. I did?

25 A. .

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

104 1 Q. I did.

2 Q. Did anyone help you?

3 A. No, I had my attorney review it to 4 make sure that I was stating my privilege 5 correctly.

6 Q. Okay. Other than Mr. Mayor it, did 7 you discuss this with anyone?

8 A. No.

9 Q. Did you show this draft to anyone?

10 A. No.

11 Q. Did anyone help you write it?

12 A. No.

13 Q. Did you discuss it with Mr. Minton?

14 A. No, I wrote this.

15 Q. Does Mr. Minton know you're doing 16 this? 1234 do WHAG?

17 A. What do you mean.

18 Q. Asserting your FICH knowledge 19 amendment or -- 20 A. No.

21 Q. He didn't know you were asserting a 22 fifth amendment privilege 23 A. I just, John and I just worked this 24 out this morning.

25 Q. Okay of did you talk to Mr. Minton?

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

105 1 A. No.

2 Q. Did Mr. Minton know that you were 3 going to be asserting a fifth amendment 4 privilege 1234 objection asked and answered?

5 THE COURT: She's answered that.

6 Q. Okay did you talk to Mr. Minton about 7 whether or not you should assert a fifth 8 amendment privilege?

9 A. No 1234 asked and answered.

10 A. Sorry 6789 okay. Well.

11 THE COURT: Okay 6789 that's it for 12 today. 6789 let go off the record.

13 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're off the 14 record.

15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

ROUGH DRAFT DIRTY ASCII UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

From: Bob Minton <bobminton@lisatrust.net>
Subject: McPherson V CoS -- Stacy Brooks Personal Depo -- 09-07-01-- Final Transcript**
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 16:58:30 -0400
Organization: Lisa McPherson Trust, 33 N. Fort Harrison Ave., Clearwater, FL 33755 Tel: (727) 467-9335
Message-ID: <ua1lpt8mujm2edskt5iasjlpab67kcr6c0@4ax.com>
Following the LMT depo with Stacy Brooks as Corporate representative, the personal Depo of Stacy Brooks in McPherson V Scientology commenced. Again, this is in the presence of Judge Beach, on Friday Sept 7, 2001.

1 1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE SIXTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR PINELLAS COUNTY, FLORIDA 2 CIVIL DIVISION 3 DELL LIEBREICH, as Personal Representative of the ESTATE 4 OF LISA McPHERSON, 5 Plaintiff, 6 vs. Case No.: 00-5682-CI-11 7 CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY FLAG SERVICE ORGANIZATION, JANIS 8 JOHNSON, ALAIN KARTUZINSKI and DAVID HOUGHTON, D.D.S., 9 Defendants.

10 11 VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF 12 STACY BROOKS, INDIVIDUALLY 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 REPORTED BY:

24 Lisa A. Simons-Clark, RPR 25 September 7, 2001

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

2 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 3 Counsel for the Lisa McPherson Trust:

4 MR. JOHN M. MERRETT Attorney at Law 5 1125 St. Augustine Road, Suite 15-393 Jacksonville, Florida 32257 6 Counsel for Defendant Church of Scientology 7 Flag Service Organization:

8 MR. KENDRICK L. MOXON Moxon & Kobrin 9 Attorneys at Law 1100 Cleveland Street, Suite 900 10 Clearwater, Florida 33755 11 Counsel for Defendant Church of Scientology Flag Service Organization:

12 MR. LEE FUGATE 13 Zuckerman Spaeder, LLP Attorneys at Law 14 401 East Jackson Street, Suite 2525 Tampa, Florida 33602 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

3 1 I N D E X 2 WITNESS PAGE 3 Called by the DEFENDANT CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY 4 FLAG SERVICE ORGANIZATION:

5 STACY BROOKS, INDIVIDUALLY 6 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MOXON......... 5 7 ERRATA SHEET............................ 53 8 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER OATH............ 54 9 REPORTER'S DEPOSITION CERTIFICATE....... 55 10 11 12 13 EXHIBITS 14 15 Exhibit No. 1........................... 9 16 Exhibit No. 2........................... 9 17 Exhibit No. 4........................... 34 18 Exhibit No. 3........................... 37 19 Exhibit No. 5........................... 39 20 Exhibit No. 6........................... 39 21 Exhibit No. 7........................... 40 22 Witness Exhibit No. 1................... 49 23 24 25

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

4 1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE SIXTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR PINELLAS COUNTY, FLORIDA 2 CIVIL DIVISION 3 DELL LIEBREICH, as Personal Representative of the ESTATE 4 OF LISA McPHERSON, 5 Plaintiff, 6 vs. Case No.: 00-5682-CI-11 7 CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY FLAG SERVICE ORGANIZATION, JANIS 8 JOHNSON, ALAIN KARTUZINSKI and DAVID HOUGHTON, D.D.S., 9 Defendants.

10 11 VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF 12 STACY BROOKS, INDIVIDUALLY 13 14 PURSUANT TO NOTICE for the taking of the 15 videotaped deposition of STACY BROOKS, 16 INDIVIDUALLY, upon oral examination in the 17 above-styled cause, at the instance of the 18 DEFENDANT CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY FLAG SERVICE 19 ORGANIZATION, for the purposes of discovery or 20 use at trial or both, pursuant to Florida 21 Rules of Civil Procedure, proceedings therefor 22 were held before Lisa A. Simons-Clark, 23 Registered Professional Reporter and Notary 24 Public in and for the State of Florida at 25 large, at the law offices of Johnson, Blakely,

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

5 1 Pope, Bokor, Ruppell & Burns, P.A., 911 2 Chestnut Street, Clearwater, Florida, on 3 Friday, September 7, 2001, commencing at 4 2:52 p.m.

5 Judge Robert Beach, Sarah Heller, Ben 6 Shaw and Thomas Hallahan, the videographer, 7 were also present.

8 THEREUPON, the following proceedings 9 were had and taken:

10 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're on the video 11 record.

12 MR. MOXON: Why don't you go ahead and 13 swear her in new?

14 STACY BROOKS, INDIVIDUALLY, called as a 15 witness by the DEFENDANT CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY 16 FLAG SERVICE ORGANIZATION, having been first 17 duly sworn, testified as follows:

18 DIRECT EXAMINATION 19 BY MR. MOXON:

20 Q. Miss Brooks, you were first paid by 21 Mr. Dandar in June of 1997, correct?

22 MR. MERRETT: Your Honor, I'm going 23 to object at this point. She is not a person 24 who meets any of the criteria laid out in 25 paragraph seven of your order.

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

6 1 She was formally a consultant to 2 Mr. Dandar. There were affidavits filed which 3 have been drafted in other cases in this case.

4 She has been withdrawn as a witness and 5 she's -- she doesn't know anything about the 6 facts of the case and has no knowledge of any 7 inducement, one way or the other, to any 8 witnesses.

9 THE COURT: Well, I think she can answer 10 the question, then we'll find out if the money 11 has anything to do with any work she did in 12 this case. Don't ask her the amount, just ask 13 if she was paid any amount.

14 MR. MOXON: Your Honor, this is already 15 of record in the case, it's just a preliminary 16 question.

17 A. Yes, I believe I've already answered this 18 question.

19 BY MR. MOXON:

20 Q. All right. And as I recall, you said 21 this money was for both you and Vaughn 22 jointly; is that correct?

23 A. Yes, basically.

24 Q. What were you retained by Mr. Dandar 25 to do?

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

7 1 A. Well, primarily it was Vaughn who was 2 retained. Mr. Dandar came and spoke to us, 3 asked us if we had any information regarding 4 Lisa McPherson, we said no. He first asked us 5 if we had any kind of direct knowledge and we 6 said no, we did not.

7 He then asked if we had any knowledge 8 about the general workings of Scientology that 9 might help to educate him about Scientology, 10 and we said yes, we did have that.

11 And so at that point, he -- and on 12 this, I'm a little bit unclear -- but it may 13 be that he hired both of us as consultants. I 14 really don't recall what Vaughn's status -- in 15 what capacity he hired Vaughn, but subsequent 16 to that, he asked me -- he obtained copies of 17 declarations that I had filed in other cases 18 and asked me if he could file those 19 declarations in his case and I said that he 20 could. I believe there were perhaps -- 21 MR. MOXON: I don't want to interrupt 22 the witness, Your Honor. I asked her a 23 question about what she was hired to do and 24 now I don't think she's -- 25 THE COURT: She's just stating what she

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

8 1 did.

2 MR. MOXON: This is a three-year period.

3 I've got a lot of questions here.

4 THE COURT: Okay.

5 MR. MOXON: We may have to continue this 6 deposition if I can't just get answers. I 7 mean, we'll almost certainly have to. It's 8 3:00 o'clock now.

9 A. Well, Mr. Moxon I was just answering your 10 question.

11 THE COURT: Well, he feels that 12 answer is sufficient at this point, so...

13 THE WITNESS: Okay.

14 MR. MOXON: Okay.

15 THE COURT: Next question, please.

16 BY MR. MOXON:

17 Q. Were you paid any money by Mr. Dandar 18 after that?

19 A. No.

20 Q. All right. You made some public 21 statements that you'd be testifying in the 22 case, didn't you, do you remember that?

23 A. I don't.

24 Q. Remember you said on the Internet in 25 a posting you made 16 November 1998, here's

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

9 1 what I have to say to you, DM. Jesse and I 2 are both going to testify in the McPherson 3 trial. DM is David Miscagive, right?

4 A. Probably.

5 Q. Probably? Do you have any question 6 about who you're talking to when you say -- 7 A. Well, I'd have to see the post, but 8 that's probably who I meant.

9 Q. Okay. David Miscavige is the 10 ecclesiastical leader of the Scientology 11 religion, right?

12 A. He's the chairman of the board of 13 RTC.

14 (Exhibit No. 1 was marked for 15 identification.)

16 Q. Okay. We'll mark that as Exhibit 1.

17 And you, besides all the hearings that you 18 attended with Mr. Dandar and the depositions 19 you attended, you also reviewed the counseling 20 folders of Lisa McPherson, correct?

21 A. Correct.

22 Q. And you did that in September of '99?

23 A. Possibly. I don't recall exactly 24 when.

25 (Exhibit No. 2 was marked for

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

10 1 identification.)

2 Q. Take a look at what I'll mark as 3 Exhibit 2, see if that refreshes your 4 recollection when you posted to the Internet 5 that you were reviewing the folders in 6 Mr. Dandar's office. Does that refresh your 7 recollection?

8 A. One moment. Well, this post is dated 9 September 14th.

10 Q. Right.

11 A. But I don't know -- I don't recall if 12 that was or was not the same day that we 13 looked at the folders.

14 Q. How many times did you look at 15 folders at Mr. Dandar's office?

16 A. Just that one time, as I recall.

17 Q. You did it in November of 1998, 18 didn't you?

19 A. As I said, I don't really recall when 20 it happened, but it wouldn't have been able to 21 be November because that was in September.

22 Q. Well, do you remember December of 23 1998 during Gerry Armstrong's deposition when 24 you were at Mr. Dandar's office with Jesse 25 Prince?

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

11 1 A. Was I in that deposition? I don't 2 believe so.

3 Q. Okay. So you claim you don't 4 remember when you were at Mr. Dandar's office 5 in November of 1998?

6 MR. MERRETT: I'll object to the 7 question as being argumentative.

8 Q. Well, are you testifying you don't recall 9 ever being in Mr. Dandar's office in November 10 of '98?

11 A. No. I'm just saying I can't tell you 12 exactly when I looked at the folders.

13 Q. Okay. You were -- 14 A. I did look at them, I just don't 15 remember exactly when.

16 Q. You were in Mr. Dandar's office a 17 number of times in late '98, weren't you?

18 A. That's possible.

19 Q. Okay. And throughout '99, you 20 visited Mr. Dandar's office a number of times, 21 didn't you?

22 A. Not that I recall.

23 Q. Okay. Well, I don't want to 24 equivocate on this number of times. How many 25 times did you go to Mr. Dandar's office during

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

12 1 1999 that you remember?

2 A. You know, I really don't remember.

3 Q. Okay.

4 A. Not very often.

5 Q. Less than a hundred?

6 A. Oh, definitely.

7 Q. Who was paying you during 1998 when 8 you were working with Mr. Dandar during the 9 time period that he claimed you were his 10 consultant?

11 MR. MERRETT: Is that other than 12 Mr. Dandar?

13 Q. We know Mr. Dandar wasn't paying you.

14 Who was paying you when you were working as 15 Mr. Dandar's consultant during 1998?

16 MR. MERRETT: I'm going to object for 17 the reasons previously stated. She has none 18 of the information to make this -- 19 THE COURT: Did you have other employment 20 during that period?

21 THE WITNESS: Yes.

22 THE COURT: And who was that? Without 23 telling us how much you were being paid for 24 anything, just who else were you employed by 25 during that period?

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

13 1 THE WITNESS: Other attorneys, Your 2 Honor.

3 THE COURT: For work on this case?

4 THE WITNESS: No, sir.

5 THE COURT: For any kind of work, 6 directly or indirectly, that would have any 7 bearing on this case?

8 THE WITNESS: No, sir.

9 BY MR. MOXON:

10 Q. Okay. So you weren't paid anything 11 for any work on this case during 1998?

12 A. Correct.

13 Q. Okay. In 1999, did you have any 14 employment?

15 MR. MERRETT: I'm going to object for 16 the same reason, Your Honor.

17 THE COURT: Overruled.

18 THE WITNESS: Your Honor, I have a 19 statement I'd like to read into the record at 20 this time.

21 THE COURT: What's it about?

22 THE WITNESS: Well -- 23 MR. MERRETT: It's self-explanatory.

24 She's invoking a privilege.

25 THE COURT: Well, then just invoke the

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

14 1 privilege.

2 THE WITNESS: I would like to read this, 3 please.

4 THE COURT: All right.

5 THE WITNESS: I decline to answer any 6 questions concerning my personal finances or 7 my relationship with Robert Minton, and I 8 invoke my privilege against self-incrimination 9 pursuant to the Constitutions of the United 10 States and of the State of Florida for the 11 following reasons: I believe that my 12 testimony would be used to incriminate me.

13 I have with me today a copy of a chart 14 that Scientology has previously offered in 15 court. The chart shows Robert Minton in the 16 center and many other names surrounding him, 17 including my name and the name of the Lisa 18 McPherson Trust, of which I am a staff member.

19 Scientology is trying to create a RICO 20 scenario as evidenced by the fact that 21 Scientology, through its counsel attorney 22 Sandy Rosen -- 23 THE COURT: Excuse me. You don't have to 24 read the reasons behind invoking the Fifth 25 Amendment. If you're invoking the Fifth

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

15 1 Amendment against self-incrimination, that's 2 sufficient.

3 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

4 MR. MOXON: So the question -- could you 5 read the question back, please?

6 (The question, "Okay. In 1999, did you 7 have any employment?", was read by the 8 reporter.)

9 BY MR. MOXON:

10 Q. You're asserting the Fifth Amendment 11 privilege against self-incrimination for that 12 question?

13 MR. MERRETT: Don't answer that.

14 THE COURT: Well, will you answer the 15 question or not?

16 THE WITNESS: No, sir.

17 THE COURT: Why?

18 THE WITNESS: Please refer to my prior 19 answer regarding Scientology's history of 20 inducing authorities to institute false -- 21 THE COURT: Are you invoking the Fifth 22 Amendment?

23 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

24 THE COURT: Okay.

25 MR. MERRETT: And she's invoking it as to

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

16 1 any questions relating to her personal 2 finances or her relationship with Robert 3 Minton.

4 THE COURT: Well, she's going to have to 5 go question by question.

6 BY MR. MOXON:

7 Q. Question number three in the order of 8 January 10th, 2001, which this witness was 9 ordered to answer is, and I'm asking you this 10 now: Quote, "Were you receiving money from 11 Robert Minton during 1998 and 1999 when you 12 were working for Mr. Dandar?"

13 A. Please refer to my prior answer 14 regarding Scientology's history of inducing 15 authorities to institute false criminal 16 charges against -- 17 MR. MOXON: Move to strike, please.

18 THE COURT: I'm ordering you, if you have 19 a privilege to raise and it's Fifth Amendment, 20 say I refuse to answer on the basis that it 21 may incriminate me and invoke my rights under 22 the Fifth Amendment. That's all we need to 23 hear.

24 THE WITNESS: Okay.

25 BY MR. MOXON:

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

17 1 Q. Let me give you the question again.

2 THE COURT: Because we're going to 3 stay here until we finish this deposition 4 today.

5 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

6 THE COURT: Whether it's 5:00 o'clock or 7 5:00 in the morning tomorrow, we're going to 8 finish this deposition.

9 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

10 BY MR. MOXON:

11 Q. Were you paid by anyone other than 12 Mr. Minton during 1998 and 1999 to work for 13 Mr. Dandar? I'm sorry. That's not the 14 question, it's the next one.

15 The question is: Were you receiving 16 money from Robert Minton during 1998 and 1999 17 when you were working for Mr. Dandar?

18 A. I refuse to answer that question 19 based on my Fifth Amendment privilege.

20 Q. Were you paid by anyone other than 21 Mr. Minton during 1998 and 1999 to do work for 22 Mr. Dandar?

23 A. No.

24 Q. Did you have any employment during 25 1999?

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

18 1 A. I refuse to answer based on privilege 2 under the Fifth Amendment.

3 MR. MOXON: Well, whether or not she 4 was employed in 1999 doesn't seem like it 5 could possibly lead to self-incrimination.

6 Q. Did you file any tax returns in 1999?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Did you -- did you indicate any 9 income in your tax returns?

10 A. I refuse to answer based on my Fifth 11 Amendment privilege.

12 Q. Did you receive any 1099s during 13 1999, for work done in 1999?

14 A. I refuse to answer based on my Fifth 15 Amendment privilege.

16 Q. Did you receive any W-4s during 1999?

17 A. I refuse to answer based on my Fifth 18 Amendment privilege.

19 Q. Was Mr. Dandar aware that you were 20 being paid by Mr. Minton during 1999 when you 21 were working for Mr. Dandar?

22 A. I refuse to answer based on my Fifth 23 Amendment privilege.

24 Q. Do you recall at the first day of 25 your deposition there was some discussion

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

19 1 about money you received from Mr. Minton in 2 1997, that was $30,000, allegedly earmarked to 3 a cat sanctuary and $20,000 to you personally?

4 A. I refuse to answer based on my First 5 Amendment privilege -- Fifth Amendment 6 privilege, sorry.

7 Q. Did you pay Mr. Minton back any of 8 that money that he gave you in 1997, either 9 the $30,000 or the $20,000?

10 A. I refuse to answer based on my Fifth 11 Amendment privilege.

12 Q. Did Mr. Minton pay for any of your 13 expenses during the year 1998?

14 A. I refuse to answer based on my Fifth 15 Amendment privilege.

16 Q. Did you receive any money for your 17 personal benefit from Mr. Minton during 1998?

18 A. I refuse to answer based on my Fifth 19 Amendment privilege.

20 Q. Who has the books, if anyone, on your 21 cat sanctuary that you had in 1997, the 22 financial records?

23 A. I refuse to answer based on my Fifth 24 Amendment privilege.

25 Q. Did Mr. Minton arrange for you to

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

20 1 receive funds from any other source than 2 himself during 1999?

3 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 4 Amendment privilege.

5 Q. Did you receive any money from any 6 agent of Mr. Minton during 1999?

7 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 8 Amendment privilege.

9 Q. Did you receive any money from any 10 lawyer hired by Mr. Minton in 1999?

11 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 12 Amendment privilege.

13 Q. The same question for 1998.

14 A. I refuse to answer based on my Fifth 15 Amendment privilege.

16 Q. Did you receive any money from 17 Mr. Minton for either hotel accommodations or 18 for airfare during 1998?

19 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 20 Amendment privilege.

21 Q. Did Mr. Minton contribute anything to 22 the house you own here in Clearwater -- or in 23 Bellaire?

24 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 25 Amendment privilege.

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

21 1 Q. Did any part of the down payment on 2 the house come from funds provided by 3 Mr. Minton?

4 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 5 Amendment privilege.

6 Q. Who is your Realtor that you used to 7 buy the house?

8 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 9 Amendment privilege.

10 Q. Do you know who the title company is?

11 A. No.

12 Q. What did the house cost?

13 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 14 Amendment privilege.

15 Q. Did Mr. Minton give you a credit card 16 for your personal use?

17 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 18 Amendment privilege.

19 Q. Miss Brooks, were you given a house 20 in Clearwater by anyone who has a financial 21 interest in this case?

22 THE WITNESS: Your Honor, I need to 23 clarify something with my attorney about my 24 Fifth Amendment rights.

25 THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead.

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

22 1 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

2 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're off the record.

3 (Discussion off the record.)

4 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're on the record.

5 MR. MOXON: Could you read the question 6 back to the witness?

7 (The question, "Miss Brooks, were you 8 given a house in Clearwater by anyone who has 9 a financial interest in this case?", was read 10 by the reporter.)

11 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 12 Amendment privilege.

13 Q. Have you been instructed to refuse to 14 answer the questions that I've asked you by 15 invoking the Fifth Amendment?

16 A. Excuse me?

17 Q. Have you been instructed by anyone to 18 invoke the Fifth Amendment?

19 A. No.

20 Q. Have you talked to anyone other than 21 Mr. Merrett about invoking the Fifth Amendment 22 to these questions?

23 A. No.

24 Q. Did you talk to Mr. Minton about it?

25 A. No.

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

23 1 Q. Have you assisted Mr. Minton in 2 transferring moneys through LMT back to 3 Mr. Minton?

4 MR. MERRETT: The records that you 5 produced speak for themselves, I don't think 6 you should answer it further.

7 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 8 Amendment privilege.

9 Q. Have you assisted Mr. Minton to avoid 10 the payment of taxes by paying back to him -- 11 let me give you this question again.

12 Have you assisted Mr. Minton to avoid 13 the payment of taxes by transferring money 14 through LMT's accounts?

15 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 16 Amendment privilege.

17 Q. Do you know if any of the $800,000, 18 that was received into the accounts at LMT 19 that you assisted Mr. Minton to get, was 20 actually Mr. Minton's money in the first 21 place?

22 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 23 Amendment privilege.

24 Q. Do you have any credit cards, other 25 than your LMT card, for which the bills are

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

24 1 paid by someone else?

2 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 3 Amendment privilege.

4 Q. In your last deposition, you said 5 that Mr. Minton never gave you any jewelry.

6 I'd like you to reconsider that question and 7 tell me if that was an accurate answer.

8 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 9 Amendment privilege.

10 Q. Have you traveled abroad with 11 Mr. Minton to assist him in transferring 12 moneys from Europe back to the United States 13 through the LMT?

14 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 15 Amendment privilege.

16 Q. Were you with Mr. Minton when he 17 withdrew funds from any Swiss bank accounts to 18 transfer back to LMT?

19 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 20 Amendment privilege.

21 Q. Has anyone with a financial interest 22 in this case given you a car?

23 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 24 Amendment privilege.

25 Q. Do you receive any income from the

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

25 1 Lisa McPherson Trust outside of your salary?

2 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 3 Amendment privilege.

4 Q. Do you know if the shares of the Lisa 5 McPherson Trust have been valued?

6 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 7 Amendment privilege.

8 Q. Did Mr. Minton pay for your trip to 9 Well Spring?

10 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 11 Amendment privilege.

12 Q. When you were at Well Spring, were 13 you -- did you receive any coaching there on 14 testimony?

15 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 16 Amendment privilege.

17 Q. Did Jesse Prince and Vaughn Young 18 receive coaching at Well Spring or counseling 19 at Well Spring about how to testify?

20 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 21 Amendment privilege.

22 Q. When you were at Well Spring, did 23 they counsel you to correct your opinions 24 about Scientology?

25 MR. MERRETT: I would object, and in

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

26 1 addition to whatever privilege the witness may 2 invoke, interpose the psychotherapist/patient 3 privilege. She's not obliged to disclose 4 anything that happened in the counseling.

5 THE COURT: Is that a -- was she there 6 for some type of counseling?

7 MR. MERRETT: Yes.

8 THE WITNESS: Yes, Your Honor.

9 MR. MERRETT: It's a licensed therapeutic 10 organization.

11 MR. MOXON: Well, we don't know -- that's 12 an allegation, but a number of witnesses in 13 this case were sent to this place called Well 14 Spring, which is a, quote, "anti-cult 15 counseling center" in rural Ohio -- 16 THE WITNESS: That's incorrect, Your 17 Honor.

18 MR. MOXON: -- that includes Jesse 19 Prince, Vaughn Young, Karsten Lorenzen and 20 Miss Brooks prior to their provision of 21 testimony in this case, and Mr. Minton 22 testified that he gave money to Well Spring 23 for their counseling.

24 THE COURT: Well, she's invoking her 25 privilege, which there is a statutory

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

27 1 privilege on disclosures between patient and 2 counselor, she has a right to do that, if 3 that's what she had said.

4 Therefore, if she considers she was there 5 for it, she has a right to invoke it. If you 6 have evidence to the contrary that it was not 7 set up for counseling but some other purpose, 8 you can present that on a motion to require 9 her to answer the questions.

10 MR. MOXON: Very good.

11 BY MR. MOXON:

12 Q. You were already retained by 13 Mr. Dandar when you were sent to Well Spring;

14 is that correct?

15 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 16 Amendment privilege.

17 Q. You didn't pay for the trip to Well 18 Spring yourself, did you?

19 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 20 Amendment privilege.

21 Q. Did you discuss with Mr. Dandar any 22 means to use the LMT as a for-profit 23 corporation to conceal Mr. Minton's money 24 transfers?

25 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

28 1 Amendment privilege.

2 Q. Have you discussed with Mr. Minton 3 ways to use LMT as a for-profit corporation to 4 conceal Mr. Minton's money transfers?

5 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 6 Amendment privilege.

7 Q. Have you discussed with Jesse Prince 8 ways to use LMT as a for-profit corporation to 9 conceal Mr. Minton's money transfers?

10 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 11 Amendment privilege.

12 Q. Have you discussed with Mr. Minton 13 ways to use LMT as a for-profit corporation to 14 conceal payments to witnesses or consultants 15 against the church?

16 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 17 Amendment privilege.

18 Q. Have you discussed with Mr. Dandar 19 ways to use LMT as a vehicle to conceal 20 payments to witnesses and consultants against 21 the church?

22 THE WITNESS: Your Honor, I'm sorry, 23 can I just ask my attorney another question, 24 please?

25 THE COURT: Sure.

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

29 1 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're off the record.

2 (Discussion off the record.)

3 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're on the video 4 record.

5 (The question, "Have you discussed with 6 Mr. Dandar ways to use LMT as a vehicle to 7 conceal payments to witnesses and consultants 8 against the church?", was read by the 9 reporter.)

10 A. I invoke my Fifth Amendment 11 privilege.

12 Q. Were you at Well Spring the same time 13 that Jesse Prince was there?

14 A. No.

15 Q. Do you know who paid for Vaughn 16 Young's expenses for his treatment at Well 17 Spring?

18 A. I invoke my Fifth Amendment 19 privilege.

20 Q. Do you know who paid for witness 21 Karsten Lorenzen to go to Well Spring?

22 A. No.

23 Q. Do you know if Hanna Whitfield went 24 to Well Spring?

25 A. No.

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

30 1 Q. Do you know what the financial 2 arrangement is between Mr. Dandar and Hanna 3 Whitfield?

4 A. No.

5 Q. Is there anybody who makes decisions 6 on what money to give to witnesses, other than 7 you from LMT?

8 A. I'm going to invoke my Fifth 9 Amendment privilege.

10 Q. Have you arranged for Vaughn Young to 11 receive any money, other than what was paid to 12 him by Mr. Dandar directly?

13 A. I invoke my Fifth Amendment 14 privilege.

15 Q. Have you assisted anyone in the 16 preparation of any affidavits in this case?

17 A. No.

18 Q. Have you assisted Jesse Prince in the 19 preparation of any affidavits in this case?

20 A. No.

21 Q. Did you assist Steven Kent in any way 22 or talk to him concerning the preparation of 23 his affidavit for this case?

24 A. No.

25 Q. The same question as to Vaughn Young,

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

31 1 did you assist him in any fashion to prepare 2 any affidavits for this case?

3 A. No.

4 Q. Did you assist Vaughn Young in 5 preparation for his testimony in this case?

6 A. No.

7 Q. There were several affidavits you 8 produced today. Where were those prepared?

9 Where was your affidavit that you produced 10 today prepared?

11 A. Are you referring to the declaration 12 that I submitted?

13 Q. That's correct.

14 MR. MERRETT: I'm sorry, which 15 exhibit?

16 MR. MOXON: It's the declaration from the 17 prior deposition, the LMT deposition. Here.

18 It was Witness Exhibit No. 1 regarding 19 retention and document destruction. It's an 20 exhibit to the LMT corporate representative 21 deposition of today.

22 BY MR. MOXON:

23 Q. Where was that prepared?

24 A. In my office.

25 Q. With who?

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

32 1 A. With me and my attorney.

2 Q. Your attorney is Mr. Merrett?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Did you receive any advice of counsel 5 at the time that you were traveling with 6 Mr. Minton in Europe before the money 7 transfers were made to LMT of the $800,000?

8 MR. MERRETT: That's attorney-client 9 privilege. Don't answer it.

10 THE COURT: He's not asking for the 11 advice given, he just wants to know whether or 12 not she consulted with a lawyer.

13 MR. MERRETT: I believe it's a fact of 14 consultation with counsel is privileged. I 15 mean, it's nobody's business whether she talks 16 to a lawyer. That's an absolute right and she 17 doesn't have to -- 18 THE COURT: I'm not really sure on that, 19 so I'll go ahead and give you the benefit of 20 the doubt.

21 MR. MOXON: I don't have any cases on 22 that here either, Your Honor, but I know that 23 in Florida, the fact of representation is not 24 privileged, nor is the, for example, the fee 25 paid to an attorney, but the fact of

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

33 1 representation is not privileged in Florida.

2 I can call my partner probably and get a 3 case for you, but I'm only asking -- 4 THE COURT: He says it is, you say it 5 isn't. I don't know.

6 MR. MOXON: Okay. Anyway, you're 7 instructing the witness not -- 8 THE COURT: He's raised it. He's raised 9 it.

10 MR. MERRETT: Why don't you just clarify 11 the question, does it go to the fact of 12 representation. The question was, did you 13 consult with an attorney?

14 MR. MOXON: Okay. So let me clarify the 15 question so we have it clean on the record.

16 BY MR. MOXON:

17 Q. Did you consult with an attorney with 18 respect to the withdrawal of funds or 19 transfer of funds from Europe to the LMT?

20 THE COURT: Now, I think when you get 21 into subject matter, that clearly is a 22 privilege.

23 MR. MOXON: Okay. All right. Let me try 24 again.

25 BY MR. MOXON:

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

34 1 Q. Did you -- did you consult with any 2 attorney at the time that you were traveling 3 with Mr. Minton in Europe prior to the 4 transfer of funds back to LMT?

5 A. I invoke my Fifth Amendment 6 privilege.

7 THE COURT: Well, the question is, is 8 it Fifth Amendment or is it attorney-client 9 privilege? That's the question.

10 MR. MERRETT: It's both.

11 THE COURT: Both. Okay. Then my ruling 12 on it is moot.

13 BY MR. MOXON:

14 Q. Do you remember testimony of Jesse 15 Prince where he said he had -- he had made a 16 deal with you that as long as he continued to 17 testify against Scientology, that he would be 18 paid?

19 A. No.

20 (Exhibit No. 4 was marked for 21 identification.)

22 Q. Let's see if I can refresh your 23 recollection. If you'd look at the 24 highlighted portions. What I'm marking as 25 Exhibit 4 to this deposition, which is a --

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

35 1 excerpts of the deposition of Jesse Prince on 2 August 19th, 1998.

3 MR. MOXON: Here's a copy.

4 MR. MERRETT: What page is that, 5 Miss Brooks?

6 THE WITNESS: Sorry. 372.

7 THE COURT: Did you mean for me to see 8 this?

9 MR. MOXON: If you wish.

10 BY MR. MOXON:

11 Q. This agreement that Mr. Prince is 12 talking about that he made with you, who were 13 you working for when you made that agreement 14 with him?

15 A. That's not what his testimony says.

16 Q. Page -- well, whatever you think his 17 testimony says, page 370, he said he made an 18 agreement with you, line 17 through 19, 19 reached an understanding with you. Page 372 20 says, "So let's see if I've got this straight.

21 You reached an agreement with Miss Young about 22 a month ago that as long as you continue to 23 cooperate and assist in this case, you'd be 24 paid all of your expenses, including 25 walking-around money, in an oral agreement you

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

36 1 reached with Miss Young, no witnesses and no 2 writing confirming this. Have I said it right 3 now?"

4 A. And he says, "Not quite, sir."

5 Q. He does, indeed. And he's asked, 6 "Tell me -- the question -- where did I go 7 wrong?"

8 Answer from Mr. Prince, "You went 9 wrong in limiting it to this case, because 10 there are other cases that are going on 11 against Scientology I may be able to help in 12 as well."

13 Do you recall making that agreement 14 with Mr. -- 15 A. You need to finish here because he's 16 still trying to clarify because Rosen is still 17 saying it wrong. And then Jesse goes on to 18 say, "There's other activities that I do, are 19 projected to do beyond just working on this 20 particular case."

21 Q. Right.

22 A. So I will tell you that as far as I'm 23 concerned, the only agreement that I ever made 24 with Jesse Prince was that he would work with 25 us on the work that we were doing.

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

37 1 Q. Who were you -- were you employed by 2 anyone when you made this agreement with 3 Mr. Prince?

4 A. I refuse to answer based on my Fifth 5 Amendment privilege.

6 Q. Who is the money supposed to come 7 from to pay Mr. Prince to testify against 8 Scientology in various cases?

9 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 10 Amendment privilege.

11 (Exhibit No. 3 was marked for 12 identification.)

13 Q. I've marked as Exhibit 3 a 14 photograph. Can you please identify who the 15 people are in this photograph?

16 A. That's Jesse Prince, me, Michael 17 Garko, Ken Dandar, Bob Minton.

18 Q. This is in front of the Pinellas 19 County Courthouse, right?

20 A. It looks like it. Yes. It says so.

21 Q. Were you working for -- well, who are 22 you working for at that time? Who were you 23 employed by?

24 A. I refuse to -- what do I say again?

25 I refuse to answer based on Fifth Amendment

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

38 1 privilege.

2 Q. Do you know if Mr. Dandar has 3 received any money for the costs in this case 4 from anyone other than Mr. Minton?

5 A. No. I don't know.

6 Q. Have you had any discussions with 7 Mr. Minton about setting up somebody else to 8 give money to Mr. Dandar as well?

9 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 10 Amendment privilege.

11 Q. When you talked to Dell Liebreich 12 last week, did you talk to her about the 13 prospects of settling the case?

14 A. No.

15 Q. Have you had any discussions with her 16 about how to divide the proceeds of this case?

17 A. No.

18 Q. Do you know if Mr. Dandar has 19 informed Mr. Minton from time to time when he 20 needed additional funds?

21 A. No.

22 Q. Do you know if Mr. Minton gave Hanna 23 Whitfield any money?

24 A. No. Mr. Fugate had a question for 25 you, I think.

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

39 1 Q. There's a posting dated October 1st, 2 1999, on the Internet that's purportedly from 3 you. Can you tell me if -- to David 4 Miscagive. Did you make that posting to the 5 Internet?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. In it you said at the end, "You and 8 all of the people who have carried out orders 9 from you that have led to this threat to 10 Scientology's existence should resign."

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Who were you working for when you 13 made that posting?

14 A. I refuse to answer based on First -- 15 Fifth Amendment privilege.

16 (Exhibit No. 5 was marked for 17 identification.)

18 Q. I'll mark that as Exhibit 5.

19 You made another posting to the 20 Internet January 10th, 2000, stating that "the 21 Lisa McPherson Trust is open for business."

22 Is that your posting?

23 A. Yes.

24 (Exhibit No. 6 was marked for 25 identification.)

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

40 1 Q. We'll mark that as Exhibit 6.

2 I'm handing you another posting which 3 is dated 21 January 2000 signed by you. Is 4 that a posting made by you on the Internet?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. We'll mark that as Exhibit No. 7.

7 (Exhibit No. 7 was marked for 8 identification.)

9 Q. There is a posting made by Bob Minton 10 on the Internet on February 2nd, 2000, which 11 attaches an alleged report from Brenda Hubert.

12 Do you remember that incident, where he 13 attached a report about Brenda Hubert 14 concerning Lisa McPherson?

15 A. No.

16 Q. Do you where Mr. Minton got this 17 report?

18 A. No.

19 Q. Have you assisted Mr. Minton to 20 provide funds to any lawyers, other than 21 Mr. Dandar, for litigation against any 22 Churches of Scientology?

23 MR. MERRETT: In the first instance, 24 I would object because that's clearly outside 25 the scope of anything related to this case,

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

41 1 especially regarding another litigation, which 2 is clearly not permitted.

3 THE COURT: I think it is in this 4 particular case. Overruled.

5 A. I refuse to answer based on First 6 Amendment -- Fifth Amendment privilege.

7 Q. You've attended a number of 8 demonstrations outside the church; isn't that 9 right?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. Carried signs? Yes?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. You were there when some other people 14 were using bullhorns -- not a bullhorn -- but 15 a megaphone -- 16 A. Yes.

17 Q. -- correct?

18 A. Once.

19 Q. Were you on salary with LMT during 20 the times that you were doing that?

21 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 22 Amendment privilege.

23 Q. Did you know that some of the 24 people -- some of these demonstrations you 25 were doing were right at the entrance to the

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

42 1 dining hall for church staff members, correct, 2 on Waterson Avenue?

3 A. Across the street.

4 Q. Yeah. That's a very narrow street, 5 right, it's two-lane, a little two-lane 6 street, right, Waterson?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Did you know that some of the 9 attendants to Lisa McPherson when she was 10 staying at the Fort Harrison Hotel were among 11 the people that you were demonstrating against 12 there?

13 A. No. I would like to clarify that. I 14 wasn't demonstrating against them. I was 15 letting them know they could come and talk to 16 me if they wanted to.

17 Q. And you know that some of these 18 people are witnesses in the case, right?

19 A. No, I didn't know that. I was just 20 clarifying that you were saying I was 21 demonstrating against them, and I never did 22 that.

23 Q. So your purpose of your demonstration 24 was trying to get these people to come down to 25 LMT to talk to you?

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

43 1 A. Just to let them know that they had 2 that option. And that's all I ever did when I 3 was involved in any of those things.

4 Q. Didn't you know that those -- all of 5 the church staff are represented by counsel in 6 this case?

7 A. I'm sorry?

8 Q. Did you know that all of the church 9 staff are represented by counsel in this case?

10 A. No. What does that have to do with 11 it?

12 Q. Well, it has a lot to do with it if 13 you're working for Mr. Minton.

14 THE COURT: Just answer the question.

15 MR. MERRETT: They're supposed to 16 keep them locked up if they have counsel.

17 THE WITNESS: Sorry, sir.

18 MR. MOXON: I'm going to take a quick 19 break and see if I can wrap this up.

20 THE COURT: Okay.

21 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're off the video 22 record.

23 (Recess.)

24 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're back on the 25 video record.

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

44 1 BY MR. MOXON:

2 Q. Did LMT or Mr. Minton pay for any 3 people to come to Clearwater for 4 demonstrations?

5 A. Could you repeat that question, 6 please?

7 Q. Sure. Did LMT or Mr. Minton pay for 8 any people to come to Clearwater for 9 demonstrations?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. Who did they pay for?

12 A. One person.

13 Q. Who's that?

14 A. Deana Holmes.

15 Q. Who paid?

16 A. I think Bob Minton.

17 Q. How about Dell Liebreich, were Dell 18 Liebreich's expenses ever paid by Mr. Minton 19 to come to Clearwater?

20 A. Not that I know of.

21 Q. How about Rod Keller?

22 A. Not that I know of.

23 Q. Gerry Armstrong?

24 A. No. Not that I know of.

25 Q. Have you discussed or assisted

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

45 1 Mr. Minton in providing any moneys to Dell 2 Liebreich or Ann Carlson?

3 A. I refuse to answer based on Fifth 4 Amendment privilege.

5 MR. MOXON: Well, we're suspending 6 the deposition then at this point to research 7 these issues and see if we come back or not, I 8 don't know, with respect to these privileges 9 that have been asserted and their refusals to 10 answer, but we're done for the time being.

11 THE COURT: Okay.

12 MR. MERRETT: Judge, I'm sorry, I have to 13 interpose an objection to suspension of the 14 deposition. You have instructed that if she's 15 invoking a privilege, she has to do it 16 question by question, they need to ask every 17 question that they have to ask.

18 Rather than have this thing played out 19 interminably, she's been deposed for about 20 20 hours in this case already and, I mean, this 21 is the fourth day, third day, fourth day, 22 fifth day that she's been back, because -- if, 23 for no other reason, because you have required 24 her to invoke a privilege question by 25 question, we're not at the end of the business

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

46 1 day, the deposition should not be suspended, 2 subject to being reconvened.

3 You've said we were going to finish it;

4 I'm asking that she finish it. She was 5 ordered to come back, it was the only time she 6 was ordered to come back. If they've got 7 questions, they need to ask them, not scurry 8 off and come up with more questions and a new 9 request for production like they did this last 10 time. We need to go ahead and finish.

11 THE COURT: As far as I know, we're 12 finished. He just said we're quitting for the 13 day.

14 MR. MERRETT: Well, there's a difference.

15 I mean, they're talking about suspending the 16 deposition, subject to some future litigation.

17 I mean, the deposition needs to be -- either 18 it's over or it's not.

19 If it's not over, we need to stay here 20 until they've asked all the questions they had 21 to ask.

22 MR. MOXON: Mr. Merrett, it's clear 23 enough to all of us that she's not going to 24 come back without a further order of the court 25 and a motion. So if we seek to have her come

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

47 1 back and you decline and the witness declines, 2 it will be subject to future litigation.

3 So I may have follow-up questions if 4 these -- some of these don't get upheld that I 5 need to take a look at. I didn't expect her 6 to be asserting the Fifth Amendment and I, 7 frankly, don't know.

8 In any event, I have other follow-up 9 questions that I would ask her if she answered 10 some of these, but clearly we're not going to 11 come back without further court order, so...

12 MR. MERRETT: I need to know if the 13 deposition is over or not.

14 THE COURT: It's over today, from what I 15 can see.

16 MR. MERRETT: Judge, I beg -- I mean, I'm 17 not intending any disrespect, but that's -- 18 THE COURT: Well, you're asking me 19 something that's going to happen in the 20 future. He's going to file a motion to compel 21 her to answer these questions, that she 22 doesn't have a right to answer these, to 23 invoke the Fifth Amendment, and that has to be 24 resolved, and I can't say that this deposition 25 is finished if he's going to raise these

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

48 1 issues at a future hearing.

2 MR. MERRETT: Well, my point though is 3 this, then what we need to do is make a very 4 clear record that he has no questions to ask 5 other than follow-ups to questions that have 6 not been answered that we've already -- 7 THE COURT: Is that correct?

8 MR. MOXON: That's correct.

9 MR. MERRETT: Okay. So we've -- we've 10 covered the scope of this examination?

11 THE COURT: I -- ask him. I'm not the 12 one taking the deposition.

13 MR. MOXON: Other than follow-ups to 14 questions she's declined to answer, the 15 deposition is concluded.

16 MR. MERRETT: Okay. Well, we're going to 17 attach this as Witness's Exhibit 1 to this 18 deposition.

19 MR. MOXON: What is that?

20 MR. MERRETT: It's a written statement.

21 THE WITNESS: Let me just -- 22 MR. MOXON: Did you make a copy of 23 it?

24 THE WITNESS: Yeah.

25 MR. MOXON: Wait, wait. What is this?

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

49 1 MR. MERRETT: If the court reporter has a 2 sticker -- here we go.

3 MR. MOXON: What's this? Well, I didn't 4 see this before. Who -- let me ask you a 5 question about this if you want to attach it 6 as an exhibit.

7 MR. MERRETT: Just give me a second.

8 MR. MOXON: Go ahead and mark it.

9 THE WITNESS: That's my full statement 10 regarding my Fifth Amendment privilege.

11 (Witness Exhibit No. 1 was marked for 12 identification.)

This is the full text of Stacy Brook's Statement which was entered into the record as Exhibit No. 1:

Bunker was taken to jail, booked, and charged with criminal trespassing despite two eyewitnesses who swore he was standing on the public sidewalk. Mr. Bunker was acquitted at trial.

In June 2000, Ursula Caberta, head of a task force established by the Hamburg government to investigate Scientology, visited Clearwater on vacation.

Scientology operatives harassed her at her hotel throughout her stay. While Ms.

Caberta ate dinner with Mr. Minton and Ms. Brooks in a hotel dining room, two Scientologists interrupted them and began to harass Ms. Caberta, telling her that she should go back to Germany.

End of Exhibit No. 1 13 BY MR. MOXON:

14 Q. Okay.

15 A. And I want it part of the record, 16 please.

17 Q. That's what we've marked as Exhibit 18 No. 1?

19 A. Is that No. 1? Okay.

20 MR. MERRETT: It's Witness's Exhibit 21 No. 1.

22 Q. Who wrote this?

23 A. I did.

24 Q. Did anyone help you?

25 A. No. I had my attorney review it to

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

50 1 make sure that I was stating my privilege 2 correctly.

3 Q. Okay. Other than Mr. Merrett, did 4 you discuss this with anyone?

5 A. No.

6 Q. Did you show this draft to anyone?

7 A. No.

8 Q. Did anyone help you write it?

9 A. No.

10 Q. Did you discuss it with Mr. Minton?

11 A. No. I wrote this.

12 Q. Does Mr. Minton know you're doing 13 this?

14 MR. MERRETT: Doing what?

15 A. What do you mean?

16 Q. Asserting your Fifth Amendment or -- 17 A. No.

18 Q. He didn't know you were asserting a 19 Fifth Amendment privilege?

20 A. I just -- John and I just worked this 21 out this morning.

22 Q. Okay. Did you talk to Mr. Minton?

23 A. No.

24 Q. Did Mr. Minton know that you were 25 going to be asserting a Fifth Amendment

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

51 1 privilege?

2 MR. MERRETT: Objection, asked and 3 answered.

4 THE COURT: She's answered that.

5 Q. Okay. Did you talk to Mr. Minton 6 about whether or not you should assert a Fifth 7 Amendment privilege?

8 A. No.

9 MR. MERRETT: Asked and answered.

10 A. Sorry.

11 MR. MOXON: Okay. Well...

12 THE COURT: Okay.

13 MR. MOXON: That's it for today. Let's 14 go off the record.

15 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're off the record.

16 THEREUPON, the deposition of STACY 17 BROOKS, INDIVIDUALLY, was concluded at 4:02 p.m.

18 NOTE: The original and one copy of the 19 foregoing deposition will be held by 20 Mr. Moxon; copy to Mr. Merrett.

21 22 23 24 25

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

52 1 DEPONENT'S ERRATA SHEET 2 AND SIGNATURE INSTRUCTIONS 3 The original of the Errata Sheet has been 4 delivered to John M. Merrett, Esq.

5 When the Errata Sheet has been completed 6 by the deponent and signed, a copy thereof 7 should be delivered to each party of record 8 and the ORIGINAL delivered to Kendrick L.

9 Moxon, Esq., to whom the original deposition 10 transcript was delivered.

11 12 13 INSTRUCTIONS TO DEPONENT 14 15 After reading this volume of your deposition, indicate any corrections or 16 changes to your testimony and the reasons therefor on the Errata Sheet supplied to you 17 and sign it. DO NOT make marks or notations on the transcript volume itself.

18 19 20 21 REPLACE THIS PAGE OF THE TRANSCRIPT WITH THE 22 COMPLETED AND SIGNED ERRATA SHEET WHEN 23 RECEIVED.

24 25

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

53 1 ATTACH TO THE DEPOSITION OF STACY BROOKS, INDIVIDUALLY CASE: LIEBREICH vs CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY, et al.

2 ERRATA SHEET.

3 I, STACY BROOKS, have read the 4 foregoing deposition given by me on Friday, 5 September 7, 2001, in Clearwater, Florida, and 6 the following corrections, if any, should be 7 made in the transcript:

8 PAGE LINE CORRECTION AND REASON THEREFOR 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 Subject to the above corrections, if any, my testimony reads as given by me in the 21 foregoing deposition.

SIGNED at _________________, Florida, 22 this __________ day of ____________________ , 2001.

23 24 _____________________________ 25 STACY BROOKS

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

54 1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER OATH 2 3 STATE OF FLORIDA 4 COUNTY OF HILLSBOROUGH 5 6 7 I, the undersigned authority, hereby 8 certify that the witness named herein 9 personally appeared before me and was duly 10 sworn.

11 WITNESS my hand and official seal 12 this day of , 2001.

13 14 15 16 17 18 19 ______________________________ 20 LISA A. SIMONS-CLARK 21 Notary Public- State of Florida 22 My Commission No. CC944119 23 Expires: July 1, 2004 24 25

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321

55 1 REPORTER'S DEPOSITION CERTIFICATE 2 3 STATE OF FLORIDA COUNTY OF HILLSBOROUGH 4 5 I, LISA A. SIMONS-CLARK, Registered Professional Reporter and Notary Public in and 6 for the State of Florida at large, hereby certify that the witness appeared before me 7 for the taking of the foregoing deposition, and that I was authorized to and did 8 stenographically and electronically report the deposition; and that a review of the 9 transcript was requested; and that the transcript is a true and complete record of my 10 stenographic notes and recordings thereof.

11 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am neither an attorney nor counsel for the parties to 12 this cause nor a relative or employee of any attorney or party connected with this 13 litigation, nor am I financially interested in the outcome of this action.

14 DATED THIS day of , 15 2001, at Tampa, Hillsborough County, Florida.

16 17 18 _____________________________ LISA A. SIMONS-CLARK 19 My Commission No.: CC944119 Expires: July 1, 2004 20 Transcript ordered: 09/07/01 21 22 23 24 25

SCLAFANI WILLIAMS COURT REPORTERS, INC.

TAMPA, FLORIDA (813) 223-7321
** This is final subject to revisions of Stacy Brooks.

Go Back