||||| From: ptsc Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: Re: Santa Barbara News-Press: Slatkin Declared Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 14:00:30 -0500 Organization: ARS: Perhaps the Most Malignant Newsgroup on Usenet Message-ID: References: <20020401020703.05281.00001058@mb-co.aol.com> <3CA88131.3000904@sympatico.ca> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.553 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 989 Path: news2.lightlink.com!news.lightlink.com!zapata.tvd.be!news.tvd.be!sn-xit-03!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: news2.lightlink.com alt.religion.scientology:1449596 On Mon, 01 Apr 2002 10:48:01 -0500, yduzitmatter wrote: The fucking kook Kymus whined and moaned, like the pathetic loser he is: [Whining and moaning snipped] >Ah, Slatkin himself stated that Scientology was the driving force >in his life >and the Trustees are merely repeating that fact. Does it >bother you that his ties to the church are so prominently >discussed in the trustees' report?? >Wake up and realize that Slatkin's scientology training >helped make him the con he has been proven to be?? Here's an amazing huge rant of Slatkin about Scientology during his SEC deposition. Unlike what the nutcase Kymus would have you believe, it's quite enough for any person (any sane person that is) to have reached the conclusion Neilson indeed reached. This is just the first 20 pages of the rant, actually. The entire rant goes on for about 75 pages. http://www.slatkinfraud.com/depo_jan.htm has the rest of it if you want to read it for yourself. People who have carefully read the document relating to Slatkin have come to the same inescapable conclusion. Perhaps if you're a brainless kook like Kymus, reading a few snippets here and there and not even understanding those, you can somehow fault Neilson for having paid attention to what he was reading. Neilson has reviewed and studied over three million separate documents on Slatkin and can be considered the world's leading Slatkin expert, having more access to raw information including Reed Slatkin's own statements than anyone else. However, anyone (who isn't a total befuddled nitwit and kook like Kymus) can read Reed Slatkin's own astounding rant during his January deposition and realize how pervasive Scientology's influence over Slatkin's mindset indeed was. --- 2 THE WITNESS: When I was 14 years old my father 3 died, and our family was in a pretty bad state at the time. 4 And I had an uncle who was living in England and came to 5 visit us, and he was a student of L. Ron Hubbard. I don't 6 know if you guys have heard much about Scientology. I know 7 it's a word that will live in infamy in the press, and I'm 8 sure you've seen some things about it that are perhaps less 9 than positive. But let me assure you that if I had a moment 10 to talk to you about that you would get another viewpoint. 11 I'm not here to do that, but I just wanted to let you know 12 that I'm aware that it's a controversial subject, and I'm 13 going to be talking a lot about my experience with it today. 14 And it's important to me, and it's been the basis 15 of almost everything I've done in life. And so it's an area 16 of reverence for myself. So I don't want to offend you if I 17 begin talking about something that you may have heard bad 18 things about, or if you have any questions for me while I'm 19 talking I don't have any problem clarifying my points. But 20 it's an important thing to me, so I want you to know that I 21 understand that it's something that you may have heard 22 negative press reports or public relations about. So I'm 23 going to go on, anyway, even though I'm not trying to offend 24 you or make you feel that what I'm saying is an attempt to 25 overcome any of that. I'm just tell you about me; that's Page 22 1 what you want to know. 2 So anyway, we were -- at that time my uncle helped 3 us through our grief of the loss of my dad, and the way he 4 did that was through the ministering of Scientology spiritual 5 counseling to us. And it offered us a great solace and got 6 us through that period. And based on the relief that I felt 7 from that I was curious about what that subject was. And my 8 mother started to -- she began to go to the local Scientology 9 church there in Detroit and began taking some courses there 10 and going to their services. 11 About six months later, when I was in the eighth 12 grade and I was in the wood shop, and I almost severed my 13 fourth finger here in a saw, you know, the wood shop there. 14 And I had a cast on it for six or eight weeks, then I went 15 off and had physical therapy and was told that I would never 16 use my finger again; it would just be stiff like this. 17 And my uncle came to town and administered some 18 more of these Scientology processes to help alleviate pain 19 and suffering that comes from experiences or incidents that 20 one goes through like this. And almost miraculously, within 21 a couple of days I had full use of my hands again. And it 22 was a big moment for me. And at that point I said, well, I 23 don't know how this works but it works for me, so I decided 24 that I was going to find out about this. 25 And so I began also to go to the church in Michigan Page 23 1 and started taking courses in the basic tenets of 2 Scientology. Now, these tenets are rather far-reaching in 3 their meaning. The basic principle is that when you look at 4 a person or at a human being he's not just his body. He has 5 his body, and then there's his mind, which is sort of the 6 the machine that he uses to analyze information and make 7 correlations and recognize things. And then there's the 8 spirit, or what Scientology refers to as a thetan -- that's 9 spelled t-h-e-t-a-n. It refers to the part of the person 10 that is not physical. 11 And this person has certain abilities, certain 12 faculties of perception and intelligence, and in his pure 13 state is able to have a great sense of not only ability but 14 aesthetic interests and intelligence. And through its 15 association with the mind and the body it gets degraded to a 16 point where it makes poor judgments, has aches and pains, has 17 problems, has secrets, and becomes the result of all sorts 18 and manners of what we would call negative experiences. And 19 those experiences get stored in a part of the mind called the 20 reactive mind. 21 I won't make this too long. I just want you to get 22 this, because everything I'm about to tell you after this has 23 to do with this, if that makes sense to you. 24 The reactive mind is the mind which doesn't think, 25 it doesn't analyze. Often when you see hypnosis you see an Page 24 1 example of this. Say that I were to hypnotize you and while 2 you were being hypnotized I said to you, Mr. Morgan, I'm 3 going to wake you up and if I say the word "chicken" you're 4 going to take off your tie. So take it off. Wake you up, 5 and chatting along, and I said, would you like to get some 6 chicken, and you take off your tie. You've seen this. And 7 if I were to ask you why you took off your tie he would say 8 -- he would not say it's because you told me if you use the 9 the word "chicken" I'd take off my tie -- he'd say, well, it's 10 hot in here, or too tight, or something like that. 11 Well, this sort of analogy, although it's trivial, 12 has a great deal to do with the whole basic, underlying 13 principle of Scientology. And that is, when a negative 14 experience happens to somebody, where they're under stress or 15 under pain or heavy emotions, because it's difficult for the 16 average person to confront or look at all this, he tends to 17 store it over here in this thing called the reactive mind. 18 And over a lifetime -- and we'll get into what I call 19 lifetimes momentarily -- these experiences can reactivate on 20 a person. So for example, if you fell out of a car when you 21 were a young child and bumped your head and had a headache 22 from it and got injured, and 20 years later you're driving 23 the car in a similar area of the circumstances -- the 24 environment or the time of day -- you might suddenly have a 25 headache, in the same way that the tie was taken off on the Page 25 1 word "chicken." There's a stimulus response mechanism of the 2 mind; it's called the reactive mind. 3 And it made a lot of sense to me because the 4 techniques that my uncle had used when he was helping us 5 through our loss of my dad, and also when I had this 6 experience with my finger, had to do with going back and 7 looking over the experience carefully and thoroughly and in a 8 way bringing it to light and looking at it and confronting 9 it, and going through it over and over again until it became 10 -- it moved away from being something that you didn't want to look 11 at to something you could look at and you could analyze and 12 make sense out of. And that technique, in various forms, in 13 various levels, constitutes the body of the spiritual 14 counseling that is done in the Church of Scientology. 15 The word "dianetics," which you've also heard, I'm 16 sure, pertains particularly to the technique of looking for 17 physical aches and pains that a person might have, and going 18 back in time and finding potential incidents or experiences 19 in the past that may have caused the current situation to 20 happen. The literature speaks of tremendous amounts of 21 success stories of people who say that they no longer have 22 arthritis from doing this. Their headaches are gone. They 23 get along with their husbands and wives. I mean, it's a very 24 exciting area of change. 25 So Mr. Hubbard, who is a person that I really Page 26 1 admire and venerate, wrote a body of material which is 2 thousands and thousands of pages, and books and recorded 3 tapes and lectures, in which he goes into his research into 4 the nature of the human mind and the human spirit. And this 5 body of information has been collated and organized into two 6 types of activities. One of these activities is the 7 spiritual counseling path, which is called the bridge in 8 Scientology. And that path has many steps that a person 9 follows, in which Hubbard divided up these techniques to deal 10 with certain aspects of a person's life and his experiences, 11 and his -- which takes him to various levels of awareness and 12 levels of ability. 13 And those spiritual counseling activities are 14 administered at churches of Scientology all over the world 15 and by independent -- I shouldn't say independent, by -- 16 they're called field auditor. An auditor is someone who 17 listens, the counselor. He can work from his home or as an 18 independent person and administer those techniques. And then 19 a person goes on to one of the Scientology churches to do 20 various levels. And these levels are extensive and there is 21 several dozen of them. 22 The other activity that this work was divided into 23 was a training process to explain and to train individuals in 24 how to administer those counseling techniques; and how to ask 25 the right questions to get the answers, to develop a person Page 27 [MISSING] Page 28 [MISSING] Page 29 1 A person who is perhaps enthusiastic or happy or even bored, 2 invigorated about life, would be someone who had a high tone. 3 And many of the reference points of a person's life when 4 they're receiving the spiritual counseling is the change in 5 their overall emotional tone from before they took these 6 courses and received this counseling till afterwards. 7 So when I was involved initially in a lot of grief 8 about my fathers death, that was a low tone. After I 9 received some of this counseling, I felt I could accept it 10 and I felt fine about it. That was the higher tone. I'm 11 just giving you some reference points. This is -- you know, 12 I think it's relevant. 13 So from '64 to I went to college, I studied at the 14 church in Michigan. And at that time Mr. Hubbard was 15 teaching his courses in a college -- he called it the Hubbard 16 Scientology College -- in East Grinstead, Sussex, England. 17 In the summer of 1966 I got on an airplane, and I was 17 18 years old, and I flew to England and I studied at Mr. 19 Hubbard's for my summer vacation, in 1966, for I believe it 20 was three months over there, in which I received mostly 21 spiritual counseling, and on some advanced levels that were 22 not available in the United States at that time. The name of 23 the location and the name of the college was called St. Hill. 24 That's the name of the location there. And that's where Mr. 25 Hubbard's residence was and that's where he taught his Page 30 1 courses. 2 I came back and finished my last year of high 3 school. And then, in the summer of 1967, before I attended 3 the University of Michigan, I went back over to England again 4 and spent four months studying there at St. Hill, taking 5 further courses and receiving more spiritual counseling. At 6 that time, I was also at that point trained on the side of 8 the training enough to be able to audit other people. And in 9 the evenings, when I was going to high school, I would drive 10 downtown from where I lived to the church that was in 11 Detroit, and I would minister counseling to other people on 12 my evenings and weekends. 13 That was my, if you will, job -- although I didn't 14 get paid at all. I was volunteering to help others. I also 15 supervised -- once I had took a course and understood the 16 material I was allowed to supervise that course and I had a 17 role as a supervisor on some of those courses. I could list 18 them all out to you, but I'm trying to keep this as short as 19 possible. 20 In 1967 I attended the University of Michigan. At 21 that time, myself and two of my friends went to the 22 administration of the university and we applied for and 23 received a -- I don't know what you call it, but a 24 certificate that allowed us to start a Scientology student 25 club on the campus of the University of Michigan, which we Page 31 1 had there for the four years that I was there, which I was in 2 charge of, and which we used for -- I'll use the word 3 "proselytize," if you like, but getting Scientology 4 information known to other people. Again, this was my 5 activity that I did while I was going to college. And on the 6 evenings and weekends I would drive down from Ann Arbor, 7 which is where the college was, down to Detroit to where the 8 church was there, and do my work as an auditor and also as a 9 student, depending on what I was doing at the time. 10 In the summer of 1968 I went to Mr. Hubbard. I had 11 established a group of volunteers to help him grow his 12 organization. This group was called the "sea" organization, 13 s-e-a, and he went and purchased a large boat and had his 14 officers on that boat, and gave training courses on this boat. 15 And I went onto that boat myself and spent most of the summer 16 of '68, at that time, receiving courses and training at that 17 time. 18 When I came back -- I'm sorry, I came back from 19 that. That was while I was going to the University of 20 Michigan. I continued my activities there. In 1968 I came 21 off the boat and I went to Edinburgh, Scotland, where there 22 was a Hubbard College in Scotland at the time. And in July, 23 1968 I was living there with several of my post-students 24 studying Scientology, and the British government decided that 25 they didn't want Scientologists in England anymore. Page 32 1 This was one of these -- as I explained earlier, 2 one of these controversial times that you may have read 3 about. Scientology has been called a cult and, in essence, 4 certain people don't like it. But anyway, at the time the 5 minister of health at the British government was -- got a 6 ruling passed by their government that any foreign person who 7 was studying Scientology could no longer do so in the British 8 Isles. And so I was summarily thrown out of the country. 9 They took my passport and took me to the airport, put me on a 10 plane and sent me home, along with another 130 other people 11 that were studying there with me. 12 Our intention at that time was -- they shut down 13 our school. We were unable to receive the training that we 14 wanted to receive, that we were getting in England at the 15 time. And so, we made a decision that the 130 of us would 16 fly to Los Angeles and, with the church's assistance, a piece 17 of property was rented on Temple Avenue here in downtown Los 18 Angeles -- Temple near Rampart -- and the American St. Hill 19 College was started, which I was one of the people who helped 20 start that in the summer of 1968. 21 It was interesting. We felt like we were pioneers. 22 Certainly we felt like we had been in great danger. We had 23 been vilified in the press in England. There were marches in 24 the streets -- Scientologists go home. You could see this in 25 the German press today; it's still going on. But we were a Page 33 1 dedicated group of young people, and we were really excited 2 about this. And so, we started the college in Los Angeles. 3 And my mother and I had agreed that I would come 4 and finish my education at the University of Michigan. 5 So in the summertime, in '69 and '79, I spent at the Hubbard 6 College in -- the American St. Hill organization in Los 7 Angeles. And in the winter time, when I was going to the 8 University of Michigan, I was spending my weekends and 9 evenings in the church in Detroit where I was doing the same 10 thing. 11 In 1971, I had enjoyed my studies of Oriental 12 languages and I wanted to pursue that. At the same time, I 13 decided to go to the University of California at Berkeley, 14 because there was a very good church of Scientology in San 15 Francisco and in Berkeley, California as well. And so, I 16 went to the graduate program there and worked in what they 17 called a mission, the Church of Scientology mission at 18 Berkeley, in the evenings and weekends there; where I 19 supervised courses and on the weekends would administer 20 Scientology counseling to people interested in Scientology. 21 So this is my continuing education. 22 I met my wife shortly thereafter, who was herself a 23 Scientologist. I should point out at this point that I have 24 never been paid one nickel or one dime for any of the service 25 that I've given to the Church of Scientology during this Page 34 1 entire period. My wife was a volunteer working in the church 2 in Los Angeles. And when I was down in 19 -- met her in the 3 summer, and she came back with me up to Berkeley for a year; 4 in which we both worked at the center there. And then I 5 decided that -- I left graduate -- I went over to Taiwan for 6 my last year of graduate studies in Chinese. And while I was 7 over there I decided that I was really wasting my -- 8 personally, for me, because I didn't want to do this anymore. 9 I really wanted to do nothing but Scientology full time. And 10 since my mother -- I was old enough to make my own decision 11 at this point, I decided I was going to do that. 12 So at that point my wife and I -- or my girlfriend 13 at that time, not quite my wife yet -- we moved down to Los 14 Angeles, got an apartment, and went on to a full time 15 training schedule to be trained. And those several 16 certificates I mentioned to you before that, aside from being 17 an ordained minister, the[r/s?]e were various upper level courses 18 now being offered in these various levels of counseling that 19 were offered in Los Angeles. And these courses consisted of 20 a course schedule that went from 9:00 o'clock in the morning 21 till 10:00 o'clock at night, seven days a week. They also 22 consisted of going through course materials, which included 23 lectures, and practicing the various techniques, learning how 24 to use the artifacts of the church and the various methods 25 that were employed there. Page 35 1 And after studying a course for sometimes months [,?] 2 sometimes years, there were very strict -- I remember the[m?] 3 very well -- internships where you were heavily supervis[ed] [,?] 4 where you were administering these techniques to other 5 people. And they were administered by the course super[visors?] 6 and case supervisors, and we were interns on those cours[es.?] 7 So you would do the course and then you'd do the intern[ship] 8 and then you do another course and another internship. [And?] 9 these were -- these internships, characterized by a level o[f] 10 perfection, a level of -- in order to get the result of each 11 one of these levels that we talk about, you have to do the[m] 12 exactly right. So there was a tremendous amount of 13 supervision. Often the sessions were tape recorded to ch[eck?] 14 your technique, to make sure you were doing the right th[ing.] 15 This was very grueling and I did this and graduated from [the?] 16 highest courses available at that particular institution in 17 197 -- end of 1975. And my wife was still -- we weren'[t] 18 quite married yet, but getting there -- and my wife was s[till?] 19 a student there at that time. I decided at that point that I 20 was going to dedicate myself to being -- to helping other 21 people in Scientology. 22 MR. BOLTZ: Excuse me, when were you ordain[ed?] 23 THE WITNESS: I was ordained in 1975. Befor[e that?] 24 time the ordination procedure was not required. At that 25 point the church had gone through various -- shall we sa[y] Page 36 1 activities, exercises? -- with the United States government 2 in various forms. You've read about this, the IRS, the Food 3 and Drug Administration, F.B.I. You know, you've read abou[t] 4 this. But anyway, the current thing was we were all ordained 5 in 1975. 6 And I went out on my own and began to disseminate, 7 to proselytize Scientology, to friends, family members of 8 people that I knew. Because I was, at that point, a very 9 highly trained counselor. And I, as it were, hung out my own 10 shingle, working under the auspices of the Church of 11 Scientology of Los Angeles. The Church of Scientology is in 12 something called Celebrity Center, which you've seen the 13 building over there on, I guess it's Franklin and Bronson, 14 that building there. And in those days, that building, the 15 offices of the -- Celebrity Center were located on Highland 16 and -- or La Brea and Sunset. 17 And so I took it upon myself to spend my days and 18 nights counseling others and teaching others Scientology. 19 And then weekends I would volunteer at the Celebrity Center 20 or at the American St. Hill organization. During this period 21 my wife finished her courses and she joined me in doing this. 22 We used our home as the place where we had an extra bedro[om] 23 and a room where we did our auditing and training of other 24 people. At one point we actually rented a little house and 25 had another auditor join us, and so we were able to do this. Page 37 1 I did this activity full time. I think that to 2 call it a full e job is an understatement -- day and 3 night, seven days a week. We were very -- I guess to go back 4 now a little bit, just to explain a little bit more about 5 Scientology, is that the aims of the church -- I'm not going 6 to bore you with this too much. I just want to show you one 7 thing. 8 This is a book called What is Scientology Doing in 9 the World. There's much bigger books that I could have brought, 10 but I didn't bring them. But just to quote this from Mr. 11 Hubbard: "The aims of Scientology are civilization without 12 insanity, without criminals and without war, where the able 13 can prosper and honest beings can have rights, and where man 14 is free to rise to greater heights" are the aims of 15 Scientology. It goes on to say more things here, and I 16 believe in that very strongly. 17 I've dedicated my life to those aims, and I feel 18 that the world, you know, is not a pretty place. There's a 19 lot of trouble, a lot of bad things going on -- and I use the 20 word "bad" in a generic sense -- and have been part of this 21 movement, which has, you know -- I've seen tremendous changes 22 happen in the areas where Scientology has been put to work. 23 Some of the areas that my wife and I have been very 24 heavily involved in is a group called ABLE, which stands for 25 Association for Better Living Through Education, which has Page 38 1 programs of using some of Hubbard's educational techniques in 2 the school systems. You may have read about it, down in 3 Compton here in Los Angeles. We've got this program in 4 several Compton schools, where we're taking young black 5 children who can't read, even to the 12th grade, and we've 6 taken them back to the beginning in teaching them how to read 7 and teaching them how to be educated. 8 Another one of the groups that we are very closely 9 allied with is the Citizens Commission on Human Rights, CCHR. 10 This group is a group dedicated to the abolition of 11 psychiatry and psychiatric abuses, including electroshock and 12 psychosurgery of any kind, under the idea that man can 13 improve and become better through his own journey of 14 exploration of his self, and not have to have his frontal 15 lobes cut out or icepicks put in his eyes. 16 These are groups that if you -- you have my bank 17 statements. You look through my bank statements and you'll 18 see where I've written checks and donated money to these 19 various groups -- the Church of Scientology, CCHR, the ABLE 20 group. There's also a group called the International 21 Association of Scientologists. The IAS was formed in 22 conjunction with some of the difficulties that the church was 23 having in countries around the world, where the church was 24 being either persecuted, or Scientologists were being 25 persecuted and weren't allowed to practice their religion. Page 39 1 Its stated goal is to provide funds in a safe haven for 2 Scientologists who may not be able to practice their religion 3 in a certain country until such time that it's possible to do 4 that. I feel very strongly about that. 5 During that period, from 1974 until 1984, we'll just 6 call it, my wife and I, basically, did this volunteer work 7 full time. This was -- we did receive honoraria from people 8 from time to time; you can check my tax returns. I don't 9 think there was a year in which the two of us earned together 10 more than $40,000 or $45,000 during the whole time we did 11 this. And every time a new course would come out or an 12 upgrade or some kind of a retraining program would come out, 13 to keep our certificates that I told you before, to keep them 14 in force, the church was always rechecking to make sure that 15 we were delivering our training and techniques properly. 16 In 1984 -- 1983, actually, November, my second son 17 was born. And my wife and I were looking at each other and 18 we said, well, we've been volunteering this stuff here for, 19 you know, 20 years between us and it might be a good idea to 20 see if, while we're doing all this volunteer work, that we 21 have enough money to raise our family. And at that time I 22 was associated with a gentleman whose family I was -- and 23 friends I was administering counseling to. His name was 24 Robert Duggan, if you're going to want to have the name. 25 Robert Duggan -- Page 40 1 MR. MORGAN: How do you spell that? 2 THE WITNESS: D-u-g-g-a-n. Robert is -- I think 3 you know that. Mr. Duggan is a Scientologist, also a big 4 contributor to the church at that time. And I have helped 5 his family -- my wife and I had helped his family with some 6 of the problems they were having and helping them with 7 Scientology techniques. 8 Is it warm in here or is it just that I'm talking 9 too much?