Transcript of Part Five

Maria Pia: At a certain point, I said, "I need to go back to Flag." I arrived at the Hubbard Guidance Center. 

Stacy: HGC, which is where people get audited. 

Maria Pia: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Of OT 8 eligibility, it was like if the virgin arrived because there were eighteen people-Italian people-and no Italian auditor. I say, "How can I go back now?" I was trapped! I felt trapped but all those were my PC's. 

Stacy: So, you felt like the ethical thing to do was to take care of those PC's?

Maria Pia: Yeah. People that you have audited that believe in you! I have to take care of them. So I'm back on the chair. And it started the story. "You have to give," the Captain said, "you have to give at least one million dollars." They knew by heart every piece of inheritance I had! I don't know where they got the information! 

Stacy: How did they know? You didn't tell them?

Maria Pia: No. 

Stacy: How did they find out? 

Maria Pia: They hired an investigator? I don't know! They knew everything! I said, "Okay. But in the next year, before 365 days my mother's death, I had to pay inheritance tax! I didn't know until now how much it is. I will know in six or seven months." "Oh, but you inherited a billion, you know." And that started, you know, Stacy, that was terrible! I gave them all the money I had in my account here. Then... 

Stacy: You gave them all the money you had at Flag?

Maria Pia: Yeah, all! The bank account. Then, one day, the Captain-every time it was Wednesday! Thursday morning, at 8:00 I was taking up the chair to the Captain to the Reg officer, back and forth... 

Stacy: Well, that's significant because the week ends at 2:00 on Thursday. 

Maria Pia: Yeah, sure. Statistics!

Stacy: So, there always is a big push on getting money in right before 2:00 on Thursday, isn't there? 

Maria Pia: Yeah. And the problem was that I didn't have money here! You know, I don't keep hundreds of millions here! I keep-I had $35,000 in my bank account. I was supposed to live on that. I had my own house. I didn't have any rent to pay. Once the Captain was in the Registrar's office... 

Stacy: This is Debbie Cooke?

Maria Pia: Yeah. What was the name of the CMO guy there? The husband of Pilar Saldariaga? The blonde guy from CMO, Commodore Messenger... 

Stacy: I don't know.

Maria Pia: ... and Pear Amquist, that was my Registrar. They shut the door and say, "Okay, Maria Pia. We need your help. We need to have all the OT Class 8 material translated in Italian. Because we have to get Italian here. You speak English. You can study in English-not a lot of Italians can do it, so... " I say, "So what? Translate it!" At the first moment, I saw they wanted me to help translate in Italian." No, they wanted the money! I say, "How can I give you the money? I might have $1,000 in the bank-no more!" And if I don't go to Italy to sign at my bank, my banker will not send out a penny!" It wasn't true but I tried. "Oh, we found people that will give you money." I say, "Who?" "Oh, your FSM, Ciara Staples." 

Stacy: She's in Italy? 

Maria Pia: No, she's here. She's an American. You know, FSMing, she bought a villa for $180,000 in Minnesota.

Stacy: She's buying a villa for herself with commissions? 

Maria Pia: For herself, yeah. With the commissions. Her husband is a construction in Minnesota. Anyway, Ciara... I look at her, like this-she told them, "I have money. If Maria said that she will give it back to me, okay." And she arrived with a paper bag with $50,000 in cash!

Stacy: Cash??

Maria Pia: Cash. She didn't keep that on the bank account. You pay taxes on that. She had it in a safe. 

Stacy: Well, but isn't the law that no individual is supposed to make any money off of money that is going to a non-profit organization? 

Maria Pia: Yeah. That's the law. But Ciara didn't put that money on the bank account. She changed the check and she had a big safe in the back full of hundred dollar bills! Full! So, she arrived with $50,000. I say, "Why did you do this?" She said, "Well, you have the money." Okay. That was $50,000. Let's go to the next Wednesday. They called and said, "You know, $50,000 is not enough even to start the translation." 

Stacy: Oh no!

Maria Pia: I said, "So what?" "We found somebody that will give you money!" I said, "Who?" "Teresa Bloom." Teresa Bloom is very rich. She is Swiss. She married Gerome Bloom. Teresa called her mother in Switzerland and her mother sent $100,000 to the Church. I had to sign a paper to Teresa that I, within one month, would pay her back the money. There's not a lot of public here or staff that has all that money.

Stacy: (laughs) They found another one!

Maria Pia: Oh, they found another one! After a few times, I don't know how many weeks. I didn't count the days. They called, it was Thursday morning at 6:00 in the morning. I had a person knocking at the door at my condo. "Rush! Rush! Rush... " they say, "the Captain wants you!" I said, "I'm in pajamas at 6:00! I'm not supposed to be dressed at 6:00!" So, I get dressed in my uniform. I went to Fort Harrison and in the basement of Fort Harrison where the IAS area is. 

Stacy: International Association of Scientologists.

Maria Pia: There's a room. There were Captain FSO and Bob Foster... no... 

Stacy: Bill?

Maria Pia: No. Foster, the Reg. Dave Foster, the lobster as I call him. When he gets hungry, he becomes so red, red, red! Every time, I am afraid he will get a stroke.

Stacy: So, this is Debbie Cooke, the CO?

Maria Pia: Debbie Cooke. She still is the CO. She makes good money. I thought there was something going on in Italy at my house, you know? So, when they come to wake you up at 6:00, you don't think it's for money again! Oh, "Maria. Here we are. We need you to arrive to a one million dollar donation." I said, "I can't!" Before leaving from Italy, let me go back a moment, I put some land to sale. I don't know how they know that the land was sold! 

Stacy: They knew that too? 

Maria Pia: They know everything! They have spies all around! So, I said, "You know, the money cannot come out from Italy if I don't go to Italy." I was thinking if I go to Italy, you will never see me again! (interviewer laughs) "We found somebody! We found somebody in Italy." So, they put me on a conference call with Franco Badjo. That is the biggest ______________! He was one of my PC's! Very rich. And Tito Matsa, the FCAC was at his house. 

Stacy: Who was Tito Matsa? 

Maria Pia: The FCAC. The one that came to my house to take the first donation. 

Stacy: Oh, the Flag Service Consultant. 

Maria Pia: Right. So, conference call... I couldn't say to Franco Badjo, "Say you don't have the money." Because Tito Matsa was there and he was understanding Italian. At that point, I was a bit afraid because they had my passport and I thought I'd never get out of there. 

Stacy: What do you mean, they had your passport? 

Maria Pia: They asked me for my passport because they said to give the passport to OSA to have the green card. I knew that I couldn't have the green card. 

Stacy: To give it to OSA? 

Maria Pia: Yeah. I went to OSA 20 times. Nobody was looking for my passport. "It's not here. It's in the other drawer." 

Stacy: They wouldn't give it to you? 

Maria Pia: At that point, I started to be afraid. I said, "They have my passport." Tito Matsa understands Italian. If I said to Franco Badjo, "Don't give the money," I will never get out of here. But I had the force to say, "Franco, if you want to, give them the money. But I am afraid I don't know how much taxes I have to pay." Okay, talk to communication, the Captain of Flag went-Debbie Cook-went out of the room. She was called for a phone call. 

Stacy: I can imagine. 

Maria Pia: And Dave Foster started to yell at me! I was becoming a couple of centimeters shorter every time he opened his mouth! He was yelling at me! And I was saying, "No, that's... 

Stacy: What was he saying to you?
Maria Pia: "You are not a good Scientologist. You are a bitch! That's not the way to act in life. Your properties are Scientology properties. I said, "Why? My parents are working their whole life to make that property." "No, you have to give that. You don't want to help your country. You don't know how to help Italy. You are a bitch!" He told me that I was a bitch, like, ten times! At the end, I said, "No. I don't want to." He slapped me... 

Stacy: He slapped you?

Maria Pia: Yeah, on the face. And that was the moment I went in terror. I said, "I will never get out alive from here!" 

Stacy: I can't believe it!

Maria Pia: You know, there was already two deaths in that Fort Harrison. Two public that died and it wasn't well known if they really died or what. I thought, "Here, I don't go home. I will not ever see my granddaughter." Debbie Cooke came in again. She made it... purposely, she left me with David Foster alone. 

Stacy: She did, didn't she?

Maria Pia: Yeah. I had tears in my eyes. I told to David Foster, "If you move one finger again, I will go to the police!" But I was afraid. I was shaking. Really, Stacy, I was shaking! So, they called Franco Badjo again, another conference call, I said, "But in one month... " He understood that I was in big problem. So, he said, "In one month, I need the money. You have to come to Italy and give me the money." I said, "Okay. Frank. We will meet you." And that was $200,000! So, it started to become very heavy, the cycle, you know? I had money sent to me from Italy every month from my bank-the income from the stores, the income. So, every week was $5,000. It was on and on and on. At a certain point... 

Stacy: You mean, every week after that you were having to give them more money? 

Maria Pia: Yeah. $5,000. 

Stacy: So, they were calling you in every week? 

Maria Pia: Yeah, every week. 

Stacy: And saying you have to give more money. 

Maria Pia: Every week! Every night! Twice a week. That was continuous. I had peace only when I was in my apartment. You know why? Because I took off the phone. I wasn't answering the doorbell. So, I said, "bye bye." I turned on the TV and that's it. 

Stacy: Why weren't you trying to leave and go back to Italy? 

Maria Pia: Without the passport?

Stacy: So, you couldn't get your passport back?

Maria Pia: I wouldn't get out from the company without the passport. 

Stacy: But you had to arrange some reason for them to give you your passport back? 

Maria Pia: Yeah. I was looking for a... so, I called Franco Badjo twice. I said, "Franco. You told me you need the money in one month. So, you must call your Registrar and say to send me to Italy because I cannot give you back your money if I don't come to Italy." They called me another time and that time was really terrible. They knew that the land had been sold and they knew that the land has been paid. And they knew I had the money in the bank in Italy. 

Stacy: How could they know? 

Maria Pia: A good Italian private investigator can know everything you want. So, at that point, I was called again. And I was told clearly, "You have the money in the bank. Now, you can transfer the money." I said, "How can I transfer the money without going down there and signing?" Another conference call was with the director of my bank. 

Stacy: No!

Maria Pia: And in the room with us, there was Cozima.

Stacy: Cozima is an Italian woman at Flag. Is that right?

Maria Pia: Yes. She was at that time the Staff MA. 

Stacy: She was an ethics officer at Flag?

Maria Pia: No, at that time, she was a public ethics officer. I don't remember who was there. I remember the Captain... 

Stacy: Debbie Cooke.

Maria Pia: Debbie Cooke, I remember Dave Foster in the room. He went in and out. There were other people. I don't remember who. There was an Italian... that, I am sure. The director of the bank said, "Okay. Mrs. Gardini, if you send me a fax with a copy of your document," like, "a passport and sign it, I can send you the money." They wanted $500,000.

Stacy: The Scientologists did? 

Maria Pia: Yeah, the Scientologists. I said, "I don't have any documents. I don't have any papers. My passport is at OSA." I said. In three seconds, the passport that was missing for weeks, in three seconds, the passport has feet and arrives from OSA to Flag! That was wonderful. (interviewer laughs) So, we made a photocopy of the passport. 

Stacy: It's a miracle, isn't it? 

Maria Pia: I took the passport and I put it in my pocket. I said, "You have to put your hands in my trousers pocket if you want the passport. Otherwise, it doesn't come out." And that was another $300,000! They understood at that point that I had to go to Italy if they wanted more money. So, I arrived in Italy and I went to the bank. And what happened was that the amount of inheritance taxes was double what I thought! And I had to sell the camping place. I had to pay the inheritance taxes!

Stacy: You had to sell the Villa in Tuscany?

Maria Pia: No, I had the camping place. It's a big piece of land. Like 40,000 square meters. And I had to sell it. At this point, I was seeing money going out like a river. And staff members are continuously coming, coming and coming and Charmaine coming for the cornerstone in _____________.

Stacy: What's a cornerstone?

Maria Pia: That huge building that is the super power building.

Stacy: This building they are building in downtown Clearwater? 

Maria Pia: The stone of that, $35,000 dollars. That right there is expensive stone. You could do it in gold. 

Stacy: So, one stone of the building cost $35,000?

Maria Pia: Yeah. They say, "We put your name in a stone in a corner." I don't want it. I don't want my name nowhere where there is a Scientology sign. That must be clear! But I had Charmaine. The officer of the super power coming to my house on the first of January at noon. 

Stacy: In Italy?

Maria Pia: Yeah. I said, "That's it. I don't have one penny more." I have the villa. I sold, you know, I have all those to survive. Camilla had to eat, has to go to school, so... I came back. I arrived and nobody knew that I was coming back to Flag. I arrived at home. I was two days rested. I took a rest, I took some sun at the pool and then I went to the ethics officer and I said, "Give me the routing form to route out from the Sea Org." "You want to leave the Sea Org?" "Yes, sir!" I said, "And don't tell me anything because I don't listen to you!" So, the captain called me _____________. It took two months to route out. Normally, in one week you can do the route out. They wanted me to clean all the folder rooms. They made me buy a Class 12 intensive auditing to be audited on the sec check that you have to do to go out. That is... 

Stacy: You even had to buy your sec check to leave? 

Maria Pia: Yes. A Class 12. Not even a Class 9, a Class 12. It is written that it is free in the routing form. 

Stacy: That's incredible, Maria.

Maria Pia: I wanted to go out with the stats so nobody could say anything. It took me two months. And then I went home.