Bill and Barbara Zizic Interview, Transcript of Part Four

Barbara: I remember going to the management group for the courses. And I figured out one of the reasons they have you coming back, coming back, coming back all the time is so they have an opportunity to reg-that's their word-register you. Reg means really get you! You know, put you in the room and not let you out until you pay for more courses. And one of the things they have in the course room is a big window, okay? So, you're sitting at the desk with dictionaries and papers. I mean, it's very nice. It's like a library and you feel like, "This is great! This is school." So, you sit there and all the guys whose job it is to get money from you, there are guys that have that job, okay, they walk back and forth in front of the window. And they see who's there and they see what class they can make up. Because after you have taken all the classes, they just start making them up, you know? (laughs) They just figure out, "Okay. Well, let's make up this course!" And so, they get you! They call you in... the secretary... you'll see the guy at the window looking and you go, "Oh God! I hope they don't pick me!" And so, then the secretary comes in and says, "So and so wants to see you in the office now." And all the other dentists would kind of look at each other, and we'd go, "Uh-oh! We know why he's getting pulled in." You know, to get as much money as they can out of him. And so then the guy would come back a couple hours later (laughs), you know, and he's, like, "Oh... " We knew they had signed him up for more courses, you know? What that means is you've got to pay now! They needed money-they would just make up a course and sign you up. They promised us so many courses we never got! They were just making them up! (laughs) And then, after a while, you even forget, you know, what you signed up for and what's charged on your charge card. I know they charged on my American Express without my authorization. And they said, "Well, you know, we got your card mixed up with another client's card number. So, it was an honest mistake." No, it wasn't! I don't know how many times they did that. I couldn't tell you. It's almost like it got so hopeless with the charge cards, you never really wanted to look at them too much because it would scare the pants off of you! They would create a lot of debt from the charge cards. 

Interviewer: Once you pointed out those mistakes... 

Barbara: Yes? 

Interviewer: Did they reimburse you or did they say, "Well, let's put it towards courses?" 

Barbara: Well, they said that they had adjusted it but then they put the charge back on and they said it was for something else. So, they never wanted to give money back. But one time, Louie, when I went to tell him my husband and I weren't getting along and the time he told me to divorce my husband-Well, he also got me to sign up for $6,000 in more courses. (laughs) So, this is the first time I really stood up for myself. I went back in his office-face to face-and I told him. I said, "I'm not taking those courses! I want my money back! I am not taking those courses!" And when I was really forceful and stood up to him, then I got the money back. But they never give you money back. They give you, like, a penny on a dollar. I mean, they just... if you sign up for a course and you don't want it, they don't give you your money back. They don't. I don't know how they can think it's their money but they don't. Wendy-their reg, their registrar-it was her job to get your money as fast as she could-as much as she could! And I had just been in session, you know, kind of beat up. I had worked all day and then went into session and this was 10:00 or 10:30 at night-it was late and I was really tired. I had to drive, like, over an hour to get home, you know? My kid was waiting for me... poor kid. Anyway, and she said, "Well," she said, "You really need to sign up for these courses today." You know, and I said, "I don't want to. I'm tired." "Well, you know, you want to really do well in life, don't you? And you want to improve yourself? And you have to do this." And she had me with the head of the Church in their office. "Now, we know you're so fantastic that you could do anything that you set your mind to. Now, you know you are a special being. You're very special to us. So, you really have to do this." And I said, "I don't want to. I never do stuff like that. I don't want to call the charge... " "Go ahead! Call! Get an equipment loan. Tell them it's for equipment. Do whatever. Go ahead and call." I said, "I don't want to call." I said, "If you want to call, you call but I don't want to call. I'm not calling." So, she got on the phone and she said she was me, you know, to the Bank of Alaska. And she said she wanted to get equipment and a loan. And she told me how you stay on the phone until you find a person that's nice, just keeping going through people until you get one on your same tone level, you know, that's a nice, happy person. And so, she, I think, they got thousands of dollars that night-thousands! and I was just kind of like in a zombie state. I was, like, "Okay." You know, it's not like I really knew what I was doing. (laugh) Well, when I was during the Purification Rundown-that's the big vitamin thing-where they really give you too many vitamins, okay? And you're in there in that sauna for hours and vomiting and feeling sick. And well, it was my daughter's birthday and she was in camp in Indiana and I had, like, a two, two and a half hour drive to go see her. And I had been in the stupid sauna all day, you know, sweating and oh, my God. And so, it was about over and the lady that was at the desk in the sauna room. She says, "Well, you know, you have to go see Wendy when you're done." And I knew what that meant. That meant she would corner me in her office for hours until she got money out of me! First of all, I didn't want to pay any money. Number two, I didn't have hours! It was my daughter's birthday. So I said to her, "You know, tell her I'm not seeing her today." They make you go for the purification every day, every day. So, I said, "I'll see her tomorrow. I've got to go today." She said, "I have orders. You have to see her today." I said, "I'm not! I'm leaving!" She said, "You have to go and I'm instructed to take you in there physically if I have to." And she started to grab my arm. And I said, (yelling) "Leave me alone!" You know, I felt like I was cornered and trapped and I don't like to feel like that. Or, like, I was in grade school again. I said, "I'll go by myself. Leave me alone!" So, I had flip flops on and a moo-moo because I had a swimsuit on, you know. And I go straight through the building (stomping feet) in front of Wendy Cooley. And I go (screaming) "What do you want, Wendy?" And she, you know, she had some poor sucker in there trying to get money from him and her eyes got real big. And she goes, "Well, what's the matter?" I said, (yelling) "It's my daughter's birthday and I'm going to Indiana and I'm leaving NOW!" She goes, "Well, okay. I didn't know you had to go somewhere." I said, "Right!" And I turned around and I (stomping) out of there!!! But, you know, there's that thought there, you know? God, they're really trying to control you! They control you! That's their thing! You have a course on how to control people. How you take them and lead them where you want and make them do what you want. And I don't like being controlled. And for any Scientologist listening, I have not had any psychotherapy. I have not seen a psychiatrist. I have not taken any kind of drugs, okay? Because, as soon as you do that, they think that you're not valuable anymore. That you're not thinking for yourself. The real truth is, I'm thinking for myself... now! I wasn't before and now I am! And they should all get a wake up call and start thinking for themselves a little bit. Start reading the newspaper. Start listening to the news. Start mixing with the outside world again and see what it's like. 

Interviewer: And you were told not to do this then? 

Barbara: Oh! Right. Everything's evil. The news Media-they're all just trying to stir it up and get you all upset. It's not true. It's not important. The news, the TV, the newspapers. Of course, they don't want you to read anything that might make you think for yourself. That's the first thing they do is knock out, you know, your contact with the outside world! It's kind of like a noose going around your neck. Your whole circle of friends shrinks and shrinks until all you have around you are Scientologists telling you whatever they want. But you really can't see that their end purpose is money. You know, they prostitute themselves for money. That's what they do. Everything revolves around a dollar. It's a money cult. That's what it is. They'll do anything, say anything, lie, cheat, steal... whatever-for the dollar! That's how it is. And the other night when we went to photograph outside of the Church, and you were attacked, I felt like it was kind of like Nazi Germany to have these police jump out-in plain clothes, hired by the church-invading our rights to be on the sidewalk. Taking your tape, you know, of what we recorded before! I mean, it's, I kept saying, "Hey, guys! This is America. This is not Nazi Germany!" But they were being paid by the Church, see? These are their tactics. Who knows, you know, what they're going to say about my husband and me? And who cares? You know?