Thomas Gerard Rummelhart Computer Operations Director, INCOMM 4833 Fountain Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90029 213 664-0371 Message-ID: <065337Z26011995@anon.penet.fi> Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology From: an144108@anon.penet.fi (-AB-) X-Anonymously-To: alt.religion.scientology Organization: Anonymous contact service Reply-To: an144108@anon.penet.fi Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 06:52:59 UTC Subject: Re: Set-up of sysop - DATA Lines: 34 > There is something about this cycle...I can not put my finger > on it...but maybe just maybe there is some truth to -AB-. > > I do not feel OSA had anything to do with a set up. I also > feel, more investigation IS warranted. > > I am asking for a Board of Investigation. > > Old Timer Why thank you, O.T.! And you risk being branded "OSA" along with me! Your courage is encouraging that one day a.r.s will pursue more truth and less bashing and accusations that no one ever proves on one side or the other. I told in another post how I got the data, and I submit that to the B of I. On top of that I also sent you the exact name and phone number of Linda, by private e-mail. Since it seems that some feel now that Vega and I are "OSA" , maybe they will believe you. I am not OSA. In fact OSA is looking for me since I "scooped" them on this and got to the bottom of it before they did. But I choose to remain anon to both sides. FWIW. Peace, AB ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin@anon.penet.fi. ======================================================================= Message-ID: <010303Z02011995@anon.penet.fi> Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology From: an144108@anon.penet.fi (-AB-) X-Anonymously-To: alt.religion.scientology Organization: Anonymous contact service Reply-To: an144108@anon.penet.fi Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 00:56:55 UTC Subject: No subject Lines: 29 >From: an170725@anon.penet.fi (Sliver_) >Subject: Re: tell us your story > > Ok Russell, easy one here - can you show me something to > support this claim? If Scientologists can leave there bodies > I am willing to put up 100,000 dollars to pay to the first > Scientologist that can read the sealed envelope in my desk. ** Ooo! Ooo! I know, I know, me first... *************************************************************** * It's a TRICK question -- you don't have a desk! * *************************************************************** Please send my check to my anon snail-mail account: PO Box 4321 Givemeabreak, WI And, master, now that I have done this trick will you -{}_{}- please get out that nice leash of yours and take me for a (o o) walk! -oOo-=(")=-oOo- // U \\ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin@anon.penet.fi. ===================================================================== Message-ID: <035412Z30121994@anon.penet.fi> Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology From: an144108@anon.penet.fi (-AB-) X-Anonymously-To: alt.religion.scientology Organization: Anonymous contact service Reply-To: an144108@anon.penet.fi Date: Fri, 30 Dec 1994 03:51:08 UTC Subject: No subject Lines: 78 The Squirrelle posted about a Success Story policy. I have S. kill-filed (due to his FOAD attitude), but someone sent it e-mail to me and I thought some here might be interested in how policies and other Church documents have come to be issued, revised, or even cancelled with dates on them after LRH died. In the late 80's a mammoth project was undertaken in the Sea Org to verify all the policies verified against LRH hand-written or hand- signed originals, or backed by a tape recording of LRH giving the data as it appears in the policy. The result of this is the full set of HCOPL's (that's Hubbard Communication Office Policy Letters, for those new here) that was released in '91, or thereabouts. A similar action was done for the Technical Bulletins (called HCOB's) released in '92. AB >From: an105662@anon.penet.fi (The Squirrelle) >Date: Mon, 26 Dec 1994 12:01:06 UTC >Subject: M270 - Success Story HCOPL > >Our Anonymous friend -AB- wrote that the following HCOPL was not >current policy. > >This is interesting, because, if cancelled - who cancelled it? > >And if cancelled pre 1986, since it can only be that the dead fat >dude could only cancel it, -AB- failed to provide the reference >for the cancellation. > >Having read this same policy in an HCOPL, I now have to go dig in >my pile to find it again. I don't recall the exact words, but this >sure looks like it. > >On looking at the three quotations, I find I have read each of them >myself just last week. > >Now, if -AB- can provide the information about the cancellation or >the replacement policy and date. I find such a cancellation highly >unlikely considering the legal aspects of permissions etc. > >Or anyone else? It seems odd to me. > > > HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS ORIFICE > Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex > > HCO POLICY LETTER OF 12 JULY 1966 > >Remimeo >Distribution Hats >Sec Hats > > LEGAL ASPECTS OF SUCCESS MATERIAL PUBLICATIONS > > In order to be safe-guarded in the question of copyrights >and other legal aspects with regard to the publication of any >success material, all letters leaving the Department of Success >which contain a request for success stories, case gains, wins in >life and wins obtained by the application of Scientology data in >life or work, must be accompanied by a mimeographed or photolithoed >form with the following wording: > > TO THE DIRECTOR OF SUCCESS (Name of Org) > Church of Scientology of California > > (Address of Org) > > I HEREBY GIVE MY PERMISSION TO PUBLISH MY LETTER OR FORM IN >WHOLE OR IN PART OR TO SUMMARIZE ITS CONTENTS IN ANY OF THE >PUBLICATIONS OF THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY OF CALIFORNIA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin@anon.penet.fi. ================================================================\ Message-ID: <200314Z01111994@anon.penet.fi> Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology From: an144108@anon.penet.fi (-AB-) X-Anonymously-To: alt.religion.scientology Organization: Anonymous contact service Reply-To: an144108@anon.penet.fi Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 19:55:15 UTC Subject: Do onto others... Lines: 33 >>You say frequently that the Church lies about you, harasses you, etc. -- >>does that make it OK for you to do the same things back? > > Please quote what I said so I'll know to what you are > referring with "You frequently say . . ." > >>AB > > Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * * > > Dennis, you're being evasive -- if you think my statement is false and I have gotten your postings wrong, please say so. I'm far from perfect. My point was not about the particular incidents involved, but rather the observation that you say the Church lies about you, harasses you, OSA after you, Church takes and alters and twists data about you...then you turn around and post "Phatmanotoo this..." and "Poodle Boy that..." and "You're an OSA ARS operative", and so on. My point was that I just don't see what good it does for you to do the same things back. I don't have all your quotes. You tell me, does the Church lie about you? Harass you? Put out twisted and altered data about you? AB ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin@anon.penet.fi. ==================================================================== Message-ID: <202302Z29101994@anon.penet.fi> Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology From: an144108@anon.penet.fi (-AB-) X-Anonymously-To: alt.religion.scientology Organization: Anonymous contact service Reply-To: an144108@anon.penet.fi Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 20:13:27 UTC Subject: It's no surprise, really Lines: 27 Dennis, fact is that RTC has full non-profit status. Don't believe me -- call them and ask for their rulings on Scientology. Get it in writing if you don't believe me. Makes me wonder what else you are lying about. You say frequently that the Church lies about you, harasses you, etc. -- does that make it OK for you to do the same things back? AB [snip] > I found out today that the "church" which ordained me and to > which I am contracted for a billion years, the "Mother > Chruch," has never been recognized as a church by the > IRS. Neither has Religious Technology Center. Both are > considered for-profit. [snip] > > Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * * > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin@anon.penet.fi. =========================================================== Message-ID: <062301Z30101994@anon.penet.fi> Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology From: an144108@anon.penet.fi (-AB-) X-Anonymously-To: alt.religion.scientology Organization: Anonymous contact service Reply-To: an144108@anon.penet.fi Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 06:21:55 UTC Subject: Re: bi-polar scruples Lines: 32 Dear Rebecca, I did NOT intend that you were the one with the double-standard. Sorry if that impression was left in my post. But the double-standard WAS/IS there. The point was that your comment did not bring on flames of you being a "parrot" for the "psychiatric dogma", or a number of other of the type of slams that come up here when a Scn makes the equivalent comment. -AB- >Your point is good, but you need to pay more attention to WHO says WHAT. >I'm the one who was saying that ECT, properly applied, helps people. I >rarely post anything on a.r.s. unless it's in response to the >scientological anti-psychiatry bias. I'm not one of the people who slams >scientology "in general". So--the double standard you thought you were >seeing... wasn't! >> >Rebecca > >-AB- (an144108@anon.penet.fi) wrote: >: And the statement: "ECT, when properly applied, helps others" -- isn't this >: just like what Scientologists say about Scn? Saying that the misapplication >: caused the problem, not the subject itself? Yet a Scientologist gets >: royally roasted on this board for saying such a thing. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin@anon.penet.fi. ======================================================================= Message-ID: <083323Z28101994@anon.penet.fi> Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology From: an144108@anon.penet.fi (-AB-) X-Anonymously-To: alt.religion.scientology Organization: Anonymous contact service Reply-To: an144108@anon.penet.fi Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 08:32:32 UTC Subject: No subject Lines: 37 From: mbacon@netcom.com (Michael J. Bacon) Dear Michael, Thank you for the very good post (exerpts of below). You seem like a Scn in philosophy and spirit at times, and then at others very critical (more of the "Church" than LRH or the philosophy or the tech). I have been new here and seen several of the "horror" stories from others, or just ARCX stories, and I was interested to find out at what point you ARCX'ed with the Church, and what specifically is your biggest beef, etc. I realize my being anon is not the most condusive to personal comm, but I am sincere. Unfortunately PT circumstances require me to be anon. I am formerly SO, Int-level, however I am on good terms with Scn and the SO. However, I feel responsibility for much of the upset and entheta present on a.r.s (aside from the blind, raving critics), and I am still naive enough to think that ARC from even one person like myself could make a difference. AB Subject: Re: SCN FREEDOM MAG - PSY 2/3 Ashraf Ghebranious (axg708@cscgpo.anu.edu.au) wrote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin@anon.penet.fi. =================================================================== Message-ID: <083317Z28101994@anon.penet.fi> Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology From: an144108@anon.penet.fi (-AB-) X-Anonymously-To: alt.religion.scientology Organization: Anonymous contact service Reply-To: an144108@anon.penet.fi Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 08:31:56 UTC Subject: Koos Lines: 51 I apologize in advance if the below offends any of the a.r.s old-timers, but I could not resist giving it a shot: OPEN LETTER TO KOOS NOLST TRENITE Dear Koos, Your viewpoints are interesting, but there is a credibility problem with your line to LRH, to put it ultra-mildly. I am not writing this antogonistically and giving you the benefit of the doubt. Please pass the following on to LRH: ^^^^^^ Dear Sir, CSW SITUATION: Koos is putting out direct quotes from you reportedly made in the present time. As presently given this is "verbal tech" coming from Koos, as it does not pass step 3. of HCOB HOW TO DEFEAT VERBAL TECH CHECKLIST. It needs to be verified that this is you. DATA: I do not have access to your folders to do any type of past-life verification, however, there are facts that, when taken all as a whole, would be known only to yourself and less than 5 others, all of whom can be specifically accounted for, and none of whom could possibly answer through Koos. The questions are: 1. What was the date and location of your death (as LRH)? 2. Where was the location called "X"? 3. During your last few years in the body, very few persons were personally with you for any great length of time. Name them. 3.b. There was a lot of travel in those same last years, but there were a few stable locations, list a few of those. 4. How many "letters" or "ideographs" in the alphabet of "Terese"? SOLUTION: Give the above answers to Koos and he can post them or mail them anon to me. They will be kept totally private, if you wish. This is OK. AB ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin@anon.penet.fi. ================================================================== Message-ID: <222323Z25101994@anon.penet.fi> Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology From: an144108@anon.penet.fi (-AB-) X-Anonymously-To: alt.religion.scientology Organization: Anonymous contact service Reply-To: an144108@anon.penet.fi Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 22:16:05 UTC Subject: Do the skeptics here have bi-polar scruples? Lines: 46 Tony is correct in noting this and it has caused me to take a second look at postings here. There have been direct accounts here from Dennis, Zane, and others about their terrible experiences in Scientology. Fine, and the threads go on. But then Jack Farmer posts his direct, personal account of his ECT terrible experience, and he got responses saying that he was "emotionally charging the issue" and some other posts to the effect that "while your experience was bad, ECT, when properly applied, helps others..." (I could not find the exact post, but that is a correct representation I believe.) I am not saying these comments to Jack are lies. They are valid points. But the thing is that there is a bias here, in that no one (that I have read here) has accused Dennis or others of "emotionally charging" the issue AGAINST Scientology. And the statement: "ECT, when properly applied, helps others" -- isn't this just like what Scientologists say about Scn? Saying that the misapplication caused the problem, not the subject itself? Yet a Scientologist gets royally roasted on this board for saying such a thing. AB >I see that Dennis Erlich has posted some more of Ms. Baker's >private e-mail and not a peep has sounded from the skeptic/anti-Scn >crowd that this act is nothing more than an oily attempt at a character >assasination. > >When Brian Wenger posted contents of a personnel file; not a PC >folder, there was outrage and calls to have him removed from the >net and perhaps even fired from his job! Is there a prejudicial >standard here? I suspect there is. > >Martin Hunt once told me; and god knows we locked horns, that the >publishing of one's e-mail is an unacceptable act no matter which >side engaged in it. These are not the exact words but the intent >is there and I admire that attitude. > >Tony Austin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin@anon.penet.fi. ================================================================ Xref: netcom.com alt.religion.scientology:29571 Message-ID: <221442Z23011995@anon.penet.fi> Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology From: an144108@anon.penet.fi (-AB-) X-Anonymously-To: alt.religion.scientology Organization: Anonymous contact service Reply-To: an144108@anon.penet.fi Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 22:07:53 UTC Subject: Set-up of sysop - DATA Lines: 131 Dear Readers, This is a serious matter and I do not make the below post lightly. I have the name and phone number of the victim in the matter with Tom Klemesrud. I will not post these, as I feel that would be violation of her privacy before the matter has come out properly on police channels. But due to the relevance and implications to this newsgroup I am posting the below, and without ANY of my own comments. (biting my tounge - HARD) However, just to show I am not faking, I will e-mail the specific name and phone number privately to Vega, who has proven him/herself to be one of the most trustworthy and fair members of this newsgroup. Rod, I am going to need more time on the FAQ answers -- I've been a little busy recently! Below are the victim's statements: -- LINDA W. interview : -- -- She first met Klemesrud at the Cinnamon Cinder on Saturday, -- the night of the incident. She took a taxi there as she doesn't -- drive. She was wearing levis and a bulky sweater. -- -- When she arrived at the bar, Klemesrud was already there. He -- struck up a conversation with her. They started talking and were -- like "psychic friends." She was drinking vodka and he was drinking -- heavily as well. -- -- He said let's go to the lounge where my friends are. The -- bar was a country & western bar. She had a puppy puppet which she -- left at the bar. -- -- After spending about 3 1/4 hours at the bar they got into a -- taxi (the bartender, Jack, called a cab). -- -- They went to another bar in the corner strip mall, a clean -- and classy bar. -- -- Klemesrud seemed to know the bartender there really well, he -- was about 50. -- -- When Klemesrud was ready to go, he said "Let's go, ride with -- me in a taxi to my place so I get home okay." The bartender asked -- her to help him get home (she was planning to take the same taxi -- home). -- -- The taxi driver arrived. Klemesrud got into a verbal fight -- with the driver. -- -- When they arrived at Klemesrud's home, he asked her to come -- up to make sure he got in okay. It was a nice place. -- -- They went up to his apartment. -- -- There were a lot of computers there. He said, "look at this, -- this is the Internet." -- -- She has a guitar and Klemesrud had a guitar at home. He -- asked if she played the guitar. -- -- She'd had a rectal bleeding problem bad for about a year, but -- had never seen a doctor for this. She hemmoraged when she was -- under stress and drank a lot. She had to go to the bathroom every -- 10 minutes when she drank beer, a lot of alcohol. -- -- When they got inside, she was bleeding badly. She told him -- about her problem. Her pants were soaked. She went into the -- bathroom and took her pants and panties off, they were soaked, and -- put a towel around her. She was walking around. -- -- Klemesrud talked about the Internet and said he worked with -- kids on the Internet. He asked her if she believed he worked with -- kids. She was fond of kids and thought he must be okay. -- -- Klemesrud said, "I want to show you something." He got a 10 -- gauge shotgun. He had already seen the blood at this point. -- -- Klemesrud starts saying, "I know you're from the CIA." She -- said, "I'm from the CIA???" -- -- Klemesrud said, "You cannot go to the bathroom, you're from -- the CIA. You'll cut your wrists, I know it." -- -- Klemesrud told her that if she didn't fuck him, she would -- never leave the place alive. -- -- She said that Klemesrud scared the hell out of her and held a -- gun to her head. He said, "I can kill you right now but maybe I -- won't bother - I can kill myself." -- -- She said she was so scared she couldn't see straight, she was -- terrified. She talked him down a lot [[calmed?]]. -- -- Klemesrud said, "I know the Church of Scientology and I know -- they send people out." She didn't know what he was talking about. -- She had heard of the C of S but had never been in such a Church. -- -- Klemesrud said, "Look at this, I can do anything that I want. -- I can call the Church and say you're from the CIA. Do you think I -- should kill you? Watch this, maybe I'll kill myself." -- -- He threatened to hit her and did shoved her around. He wouldn't -- let her go to the bathroom unless he watched her. -- -- Klemesrud kept calling the C of S on the phone and saying, "I -- have someone here who is "in condition" [[sic]] and I don't want anymore -- of these people coming here." He repeatedly did this. She -- thought he was nuts. -- -- She got to the phone and dialed 911. Klemesrud hung up and -- she called 911 again. This time she got through and told the 911 -- operator, "I've got a guy here has a shotgun. You'd better send -- someone over here. He may kill himself." -- -- When the police came, they said she could put her pants on, -- although they were full of blood. -- -- Klemesrud told the officers, "I cut myself." She said no way, -- he was lying. -- -- When asked how the blood got all over the apartment, she said -- that he pushed her all around the place. He never tried to rape -- her.