Warning: This post contains positive anecdotal material (my personal experience) relating to ECT (electro-convulsive therapy). Discretion is advised.

I have suffered from major depression since childhood. It is not something I am proud of, nor is it something I usually disclose to strangers. It did however play a large part in luring me into the cult of Scientology. My Scientology recruiters assured me that their tech would cure me of depression and much more. Of course it did no such thing. It did leave me broke, in debt, humiliated and my already meager self confidence in tatters.

After my experience with L Ron and Company, my depression took a very serious turn for the worse. I could no longer work, I couldn't read, I couldn't take care of myself, suicidal thoughts were a constant companion.

I quickly used up my lifetime insurance benefits for mental health. After several hospitalizations, there was no more money. I had tried everything, therapy, medications, scientology, christianity - nothing helped. Unable to take care of myself, I was bound for a state mental institution. As a last effort, my doctors recommended ECT. Few doctors/psychiatrists here in Oregon, USA actually perform the procedure - there is very little demand for it. Fortunately a very competent specialist works in my home town.

I consented to the treatment and it was performed in a local charitable hospital. I had six treatments. These were done on an out-patient basis, and for the most part quite unremarkable. The major side effect as mentioned elsewhere was short term memory loss. Whereas all else had failed, ECT provided me with a relatively stable mental state from which medications and therapy could be efficacious. It took several more years of hard work, but with a lot of help from friends, family, doctors and nurses I am a competent, capable, creative and contributing member of society. And a skeptical wog to boot!

I don't want to minimize the short term memory loss as a side effect. It was quite miserable. But it was short lived and nothing compared to the horrors of my illness. Side effects from medication, surgery or any medical therapy/procedure must be weighed against the associated benefits. The "side effects" involved in organ transplants and certain cancer therapies can be immense! On the other hand, short term relief from nausea during pregnancy does not offset the use of thalidomide. In addition, individuals react differently and have different tolerance levels. Since my experience with ECT I have met many others who have had ECT. Although none of them had any bad experiences associated with it, I'm sure that somebody somewhere has. It's inevitable.

ECT did not cure my illness, nothing has and chances are nothing will (in my lifetime anyway.) The therapy is far from perfect. I hope alternate therapies will be developed which will be even more effective and without any side effects. But the fact remains that for me and for thousands of others like me, ECT has given a second chance at life. I my opinion, it would be a major travesty to eliminate ECT and deprive others their chance.

Would I have ECT again? Yes, of course. Would I allow a loved one to have ECT? Yes, it has already happened, with life giving results! Would I recommend ECT to others? Yes.

Scientology and its sympathizers have for decades engaged dangerous anti-psychology/psychiatry/medicine/science rhetoric. Dangerous, because much of it is outright false and because it has influenced and kept people from getting the help they need. Myself included.

Craig -- "I notice that we all believe that Venus has a methane atmosphere and is unlivable. I almost got run down by a freight locomotive the other day -- didn't look very uncivilized to me." - L. Ron Hubbard, "Between Lives Implants" lecture, SHSBC #317. 23 July 1963.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/rams/Venusloc.ram Message-ID: <38C3E039.BDF0A3D0@bc.cc.ca.us
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 08:43:37 -0800
From: Chris Leithiser <cleithis@bc.cc.ca.us
Martin Beyer wrote:

> Chris Leithiser stated that psychiatry does not know how to
> heal the mind.
>
> Diane Richardson declared that 'clinical' psychiatry is not a
> science.
>
> Androidcat XENU now explains that 'ECT without anesthesia is
> traumatic.'
Martin, I begin to suspect that your problems with ECT on this newsgroup may be language-based. Without meaning any disrespect, English is not your first language, is it?

Your repeated characterisations of ECT as "electrocuting the head," for example. Either you are unaware of the connotations of the word "electrocute," that is, to produce death through the application of electricity. If you weren't aware of that connotation, you should be, as it causes a great deal of the reaction to your posts.

If you _are_ aware of the connotation, and are using it deliberately to be provocative, then you are being deliberately dishonest.

As you are being deliberately dishonest in quoting, out of context my statement above about "healing a mind." True, nobody knows how to heal a mind. Nobody knows how to grow a plant, either. You put the seed in the ground, provide certain conditions, and you can have certain expectatations about the outcome, but nobody knows how to grow a flower.

Is this lack of knowledge shameful? Or should you just enjoy the flowers?

Likewise your apparent misunderstading of Diane's statement. Clinical _anything_ is not a science, by definition. Clinical psychiatry is a system of treatment. It _rests_ on a system of science, however.

They're not _supposed_ to be sciences, Martin. They're supposed to be--for lack of a better term--technologies. Application of science for a desired effect. They can cross-pollinate, as when statistical data are culled for studies, or new scientific insight is applied to treatment. But there's nothing shameful about admitting that tech is tech, and science is science, and there's a difference.

Finally, you seem to have some idea that Androidcat's admission of ECT without anesthesia being a bad thing, is somehow a victory for your argument.

Heart surgery without anesthesia is traumatic.

Dentistry without anesthesia is traumatic.

Hell, wart removal without anesthesia can be traumatic.

While you are under no obligation to do so, I would ask that you stop prefacing your posts with my out-of-context quote. You should know it does nothing to bolster your case. If you wish to continue, you might consider at least using the revised one below.

I hope we can end this thread, or move it to alt.flame.psychiatry where it belongs.

Possible revised quote, more representative of the meaning of the original.

No one knows how to "repair a mind." Not psychiatry, not medicine, surely not $cientology. But then, nobody knows how to "repair a broken leg," either, or cure a cold. The best we can do is support the patient while he heals himself. Fortunately, that's often enough. And it's certainly better than doing nothing."

Chris Leithiser on a.r.s., 06 Mar 2000

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