From: pignotti@worldnet.att.net (Monica Pignotti)
Subject: Re: Routing out of the Sea Org
Date: 28 Jun 2003 07:56:03 -0700
Message-ID: <53183a73.0306280656.45c369c3@posting.google.com>

happyigotout2003@yahoo.ca (HappyGrl) wrote in message news:<bfdc4940.0306271732.f8ee97@posting.google.com>...

> I was wondering if anyone would be able to tell me how one routes out
> of the Sea Org - what are the steps taken, how long it takes, etc. I
> was only a public so I have no first hand knowledge of this process
> and I have searched the 'net and google archives to no avail. I have a
> very dear friend who I believe is in the process of routing out now
> and since this person is not allowed to "announce" their departure I
> am unable to get a fix on the time frame. So far it has taken about
> 4-5 weeks.

That's typical, and it could drag out for even longer. I've known people who took years to "route out" but this can only happen for as long as the person allows Scn to dictate her life. As someone who has left the SO, my advice to her is not to play their game and just leave, which she is within her rights as a citizen of a free country to do. She doesn't need to ask permission or tell anyone -- just go, and don't get pressured into signing anything, such as a "confession"

of acts she never committed that can later be held against her. There is no short way to get out of the BS they put SO members through "routing out".

I left without telling anyone, taking only a few things with me and the clothes on my back. Later, when I heard the horror stories about what people had to go through in "routing out" the smartest decision I ever made. The only hold the CofS can have over her is the fear that if she doesn't properly "route out" on their terms, she can never do Scn again. That, of course, is the mind control technique known as phobia indoctrination, that leaving Scn is the worst thing that could ever happen to a person. Those of us who have left and are doing just fine have a major difference of opinion with that.

My advice to her is to take back control of her life and to live it on her terms, not theirs. If she can just leave without telling anyone, that would be best. If she is in a situation where she is continuously being watched, she should tell her "guards" that she intends to leave now and that if anyone tries to physically forcibly stop her, she will consider that she is being held against her will and remind them of what that means, in terms of the law. If she can get to a phone and call anyone for help if she needs it, then by all means she should do so. Scientologists are always claiming that anyone can walk out the door any time they want to. Let her hold them to that and stop buying into their fear tactics and mind games.

Yes, announcing her departure will get her declared SP, but that, in my opinion, is the best gift the CofS could give her -- the gift of freedom. The only thing stopping her is the irrational fear that has been instilled in her. She needs to to think back on what she expected when she first joined Scientology and consider if when she first got involved in Scn, she had expected that her life would be controlled by fear. Is an organization that one stays in out of fear worth it? Typically, people first get involved in Scn because of the promises it gives for increased ability and joy in living life, and the expectation that any blocks to that will be removed, but its been my experience that the further one gets, the less this actually occurs, and the more fear of leaving becomes the primary motivation for staying. The good news is that this fear is not real and there are thousands of us who have left and can bear living testimony to the fact that there is a happy, joyous, fulfilled life after the SO and Scn and are prospering without it.

Monica

From: pignotti@worldnet.att.net (Monica Pignotti)
Subject: Re: Routing out of the Sea Org
Date: 28 Jun 2003 18:32:01 -0700
Message-ID: <53183a73.0306281732.3619dc66@posting.google.com>

happyigotout2003@yahoo.ca (HappyGrl) wrote in message news:<bfdc4940.0306281041.7d35b6f6@posting.google.com>...
> Thank you Monica -

You're very welcome.

> this is the type of information that I am looking
> for. This person is very indoctrinated within the cult, so I don't
> imagine that they would blow, but I also never thought that they would
> have the guts to ever leave the S.O. I have never known someone to be
> so miserable as this person became once they joined the Sea Org.

I can certainly relate to that! If I hadn't joined the SO, I might not have ever left Scientology or not have done so for many years, if I had just kept on as public.

> Once more question - does a person who is routing out still receive
> their weekly "pay" (such as it is)? And what are the chances that
> personal mail will get to them?

I'm not sure what the current policy is on pay. The chances are not good that she would receive personal mail with anything critical in it, or from a known ex-Scientologist. Everything addressed to her is probably being read and screened considering her status but letters do sometimes get through, so it would be worth a try. I know this because I wrote to Quentin Hubbard at Flag in Clearwater after I left the SO, and he wrote back, having received my letters. I'm assuming she must have found a way to communicate with you if you know about this? One way someone from the outside might be able to reach her is if there is a family member who is having an emergency of some kind and repeatedly calls them, demanding that they put her on the phone or give her a message to call. My mother did this when I was in the SO at AOLA and my father had a cardiac arrest (that was for real!). She had to call three times, but she finally did get a message through.

Monica

From: waznscn@aol.com (WazNScn)
Date: 28 Jun 2003 16:41:17 GMT
Subject: Re: Routing out of the SO
Message-ID: <20030628124117.00447.00001665@mb-m12.aol.com>

"I was wondering if anyone would be able to tell me how one routes out of the Sea Org - what are the steps taken, how long it takes, etc. I was only a public so I have no first hand knowledge of this process and I have searched the 'net and google archives to no avail. I have a very dear friend who I believe is in the process of routing out now and since this person is not allowed to "announce" their departure I am unable to get a fix on the time frame. So far it has taken about 4-5 weeks. HappyGrl"

I routed out of the SO as I didn't want to "burn my bridges" (oohhh too funnny!) and I didn't want to be declared and labeled SP. There wasn't an official routing form at the time and my guess is that there isn't one now. I think I roughly was on a routing form similar to that used if you were requesting time off - Leaving and Leaves. To the SO, leaving really isn't that much different than blowing -- because the intent is basically the same, meaning you no longer want to be part of that group.

At any rate, the whole process doesn't have a time frame. It can take months and the length of time may vary on the perceived value of you as a SO member.

The process (though not auditing :) ) is designed to HANDLE you so you don't route out. It is lots of sec checking, OW write ups, etc etc. Word spreads VERY fast. Your "friends" tend to shun you, and even if you aren't on the RPF, you are alienated, pressured, and pounded with constant guilt.

In hindsight, just packing my stuff or leaving with the clothes on my back would have been a better alternative.

From: ShyDavid@this-is-a-fake-address.org (ShyDavid (Gay Terrorist Psycho))
Subject: Re: Routing out of the Sea Org
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 03:33:52 GMT
Organization: Anarcy, Inc.
Message-ID: <3efe5e20@news2.lightlink.com>

On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 07:55:12 -0700, barb <bwarr1@cox.net> wrote:

> This is not helpful, shy. She means, of course, LEGITIMATE routing out,
> the way you'd do it by the book o' Hubbie. Warrior might be able to shed
> some light on this question.

"Routing out" means victims are subjected to yet greater abuse by their captors, and it can last anywhere from a few months to a few years. The victims are presented with a fraudulent "freeloader debt"

demand that they must pay if they do not wish to be harassed, stalked, threatened, intimidated, and ruined. They also must sign a "gag agreement" wherein they agree to not talk about any criminal activities they were ordered to engage in. My advice was to avoid all this abuse, and flee. I consider this "helpful."

> --
> barb
> Chaplain, ARS

---
"I think it's terrible that this 'religion' is allowed to abuse its members, the court system and use terroristic intimidation to curtail the first amendment rights of people who speak out against them."

--- Barb Warr

From: "Roland" <roland@rashleigh-berry.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Routing out of the Sea Org
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 08:58:54 +0100
Message-ID: <bdm640$94g$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>

They have got to confess to their crimes first since it will be crimes they have committed that is making them want to "blow". This can take a long time as they don't know what those crimes are. But when they finally confess them then it will all be written down and used as blackmail against them. And after they have routed out of the Sea Org they will maybe have to pay for this therapeutic processing.

From: hkhenson@rogers.com (Keith Henson)
Subject: Re: Routing out of the Sea Org
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:12:47 GMT
Organization: Temple of At'L'An
Message-ID: <3efee0dd.81438783@news2.lightlink.com>

On 28 Jun 2003 11:41:45 -0700, happyigotout2003@yahoo.ca (HappyGrl) wrote:

snip
>
> Thank you Monica - this is the type of information that I am looking
> for. This person is very indoctrinated within the cult, so I don't
> imagine that they would blow, but I also never thought that they would
> have the guts to ever leave the S.O. I have never known someone to be
> so miserable as this person became once they joined the Sea Org.
> Once more question - does a person who is routing out still receive
> their weekly "pay" (such as it is)? And what are the chances that
> personal mail will get to them?

I have no personal experience, so take this suggestion appropriately.

My observation over the years is that scientology management will hang on to a person as long as they are getting more out of the person than the person is costing them. If your friend wants out, you may be able to help. Call the cops where she is and tell them you are very worried about her mental state. It is obvious you have darn good reason to make this request, especially in light of the huge number of suicides we see in scientology. Ask the cops to do a welfare check on her. They *will* talk to her.

Even having the cops ask to talk to a person *once* is going to really downgrade the way management values this person.

Routing out can be in minutes if management really wants it.

Keith Henson

From: happyigotout2003@yahoo.ca (HappyGrl)
Subject: Re: Routing out of the Sea Org
Date: 29 Jun 2003 06:59:38 -0700
Message-ID: <bfdc4940.0306290559.3471a048@posting.google.com>

Thank you all so much for all the information you have given me - its made things much clearer!

I was asked to post this from an Ex. S.O. who understandably wishes to remain anonymous.......

HappyGrl

... Having done one and observed several, here's a hat write-up for an SO member wanting to route out "properly." I suppose it is still the same now as it was then. Mine was not at Int, just a regular base. I hope this is useful for you and anyone else wanting the data. Sorry it's in Scientologese - ask if there's anything too obscure.

To route out properly is a HUGE pain in the butt. Recognize that wanting to leave the SO is about the biggest crime you can commit against the group, according to their way of thinking. Almost anything else can be forgiven, especially if you spend a few years in the RPF as a result, but not leaving. The process tends to take several months, and can take six or more. It really helps to have money or friends on the outside. What keeps you going is the idea of being out, and if you are mocking that up with you broke and with nowhere to go it is easy to waver.

First go see the HAS, taking care not to talk to anyone else about it so you don't get vindictively declared for violating the "Leaving and Leaves" PL. In other words, don't tell the Cope Officer who is holding the post of HAS because the HAS is out of the org that day. Yes that's crazy, but don't say you weren't warned. Don't tell a soul, even if someone is inconsiderate enough to ask you, "Are you planning to leave?" Just sidestep the question. The HAS should put you on a "Leaving Staff" routing form. If he/she doesn't, then insist. If it hasn't already happened, you will then likely be taken off post and put onto some kind of demeaning MEST work. You may be left on post for a bit. You're supposed to get a Comm Ev before being taken off post, but it won't happen and you won't care. The theory is that you *rapidly* get a "Leaving Staff Confessional" to get of f the overts/withholds, at which point you come to your senses and realize you must be insane to want to leave the only group on the planet that might salvage mankind. In reality, there is no auditor who can be spared to do the sec check. It's even worse if they consider you need some kind of case action, like an Int RD, before the sec check. The unstated think is also that if they drag their feet, then after a few weeks you might just magically change your mind, but if they gave you an instant 24 hour sec check and out the door goodbye, like the LRH Flag Order says, then you would be gone and it's too late. It also depends on how valuable they think you are. If you've been a relatively productive SO member for many years, they would be more inclined to try to keep you around than if you've been a bundle of screaming Dev-T for months and they are only too glad to get rid of you.

The HAS or MAA or whoever will give you an ethics program to do. This is to help you "cognite" how insane you must be to want to leave this incredibly survival group, the SO. There will be items to study on overts and withholds and how they cause one to want to leave, responsibility, and on and on and on. And ethics conditions including a Doubt Formula, which is funny because you have NO idea of the whole Sea Org scene until you've been on the Internet for a while and SO members do not usually access the Internet and definitely not the real dope. It's not so bad, as it means you get to spend a day or a week or so reading LRH issues or listening to tapes or dreaming up stuff to write down instead of scrubbing out toilets or grease traps or fighting supersize roaches in rats' alley, and you're still waiting for the sec check anyway.

You will probably be "under guard", which doesn't mean a guy with a gun who will shoot you if you walk away, but it does mean being watched all the time. At least, that's the theory. What I observed was the person watching you sometimes had to be reminded that he had to watch you and that he couldn't go away without turning over the duty to someone else. Besides, if you wanted to just walk out they can't really stop you. In well over ten years in the SO I never personally saw or heard of actual physical coercion, as in actual physical restraint of someone who wanted to leave, although there was plenty of verbal persuasion. The whole "watch" thing is a farce. What makes it work is that the person trying to route out plays the game as he doesn't want to get declared, or he would just have walked off months ago. I'm not talking about a babywatch here, as in that case the person would be physically restrained. But then that is different.

Your fellow crew members will mostly know that you're trying to route out, even though it's not supposed to be discussed and you certainly haven't told them, and they will look at you with contempt or pity.

This is often real hard to have – people who've been your close friends through some real hardships for years and years. A few of them will treat you as they did before, especially those who secretly want to route out too, but most know they are "supposed to" despise you, so they do. Even the guy who was your best buddy for a decade. You get to eat separately from the crew, as if not to contaminate them. There may be others also routing out, and you get to do things together, like your ethics program and white-gloving the grease traps. But, it is dangerous to discuss the fact that you want to le ave with ANYONE.

Imagine the interview with the CMO teenie or whoever wants to declare you later and now has an excuse. "Look at this "Leaving and Leaves"

PL. It says you are not allowed to tell anyone." "But the CO asked me if it was true I wanted to leave, so I told her yes." "But what does the policy state? Did you violate the policy? It says it's a suppressive action to tell anyone you're going to leave except the HAS and the Chaplain, and if you do it you can be declared. Did you tell anyone except the HAS and the Chaplain?" "Well, yes, but I was answering a direct question from the fucking CO!!!! " "You admit you violated the policy. We're going to declare you." Think I am joking at your peril.

After a few weeks or months and they realize that you really are going to go and haven't crumbled under the strain, they might get around to getting you in session. Maybe some exec figured she'd get in trouble as you're supposed to get into session without delay. The sec check may take a few weeks or more to complete. It may be fairly standard and painless or you may get it botched and it isn't. But however it is accomplished, eventually it is over. After that, there may be a few more weeks or months while they're still screwing around with real or imagined reasons as to why it's not done yet, like needing approval from RTC and so on. You can hu rry it along, but there's a fine tightrope here. You are going though all this crap because you want to avoid getting declared, so you can't take actions to speed up the cycle that would get you declared. Like, "I finished my sec check two months ago and if you don't let me leave right now I am going to the press and tell them the exact truth of what has been happening since I said I wanted to leave seven months ago!" That would get you out of the door in a hurry, but they would probably declare you too for threatening to go to the press, which isn't what you want. If you have some "legitimate" reason for needing to leave now, like your grandmother is scheduled to die from cancer next Tuesday, that can really help.

So, now they have finally allowed that you are going, and it's the last day. And it's off to OSA. Under extra guard. They have a neatly-typed affidavit for you to sign along the lines of "I am writing this of my own free will and I have done these nasty things over the years - all carefully listed out in detail [culled from your O/W write-ups, sec checks etc.] - which illustrate what an insane, criminal pervert I've always secretly been while appearing to be normal, and these really nice and kind and helpful and loving and caring people in the Sea Organization have bent over backwards for hundreds of hours to try to help me but I have refused all offers of help, and my condition is my own fault entirely and always has been and will be for the rest of time and has nothing whatsoever to do with the wonderful Church which tried so hard to help me but I foolishly turned my back on them. And I promise never to breathe a word of anything whatsoever that I have observed while in the Sea Organization to anyone in speech, writing, hand signals or any other form of communication, mechanical or electronic, conceivable now or inconceivable now or at any point in the eternal future in this or any other universe, or I'll gladly and willingly pay $50,000 for every such breach of this agreement." And they may even video you signing this "of your own free will," They need no electric shocks to the testicles, no hot irons under the fingernails, no gun to the head. Not even a harsh word from OSA. By this point you will sign ANYTHING to get out of there, u ndeclared. So you do.

Then they watch over you while your meager possessions are dumped on the street and you're on your own. Free at last!

And you go through all this unbelievable crap just so you won't get declared a "suppressive person." Is it worth it? Well, that's your call. As for which side is being the more suppressive….