Dear Phil, I read your post under the subject head "RVY is right!" (Phil's post is below mine, for those who want to see it.)

I want to tell you that I once felt exactly as you do. It was not any critic of Scientology who changed my mind. It was the Scientologists that I encountered. Let me tell you my story.

When I got into Scientology in 1975, I was very happy because I felt that I had found the most ethical group on the planet and that I would be able to help this group rid the world of war, insanity, criminality, and all the other evils that plague Planet Earth. Pretty soon all of my friends were Scientologists, I was working at a company run by Scientologists, and I really wasn't much interested in anything but Scientology. I didn't want to waste time on wog pursuits any more. I enthusiastically joined the Sea Org, having made the decision that there was nothing I would rather do than dedicate my life to making the world a better place for everyone.

When I got out to Los Angeles to do the EPF (Estates Project Force -- a kind of boot camp for people joining the Sea Org) I didn't find the people in the Sea Org to be quite as I had expected them to be. They were not following policy as perfectly as I had imagined they would, they were not as upstat as I had expected, and their ARC was not as high as I had thought it would be. In fact, my experience on the EPF was frightening at times, because the man who ran it yelled very loudly when he got angry, and he got angry quite frequently and for what seemed to me to be capricious reasons.

Still, I was determined to persevere so that I could help clear the planet by getting ethics in, which is the purpose of the Sea Org. I tried very hard to be an ethical Sea Org member and follow policy. Many others working with me did the same thing. There just seemed to be a few bad apples who were misapplying LRH's policy, and I made a decision to get myself into a position where I could make sure these people were handled so that tech and policy could be applied a hundred percent in the Sea Org.

After I finished the EPF I went on staff at the Advanced Organization in Los Angeles (AOLA). I became an OT Review Auditor there, then a Case-Cracking Auditor, then the Interne Supervisor, training others to become auditors. But I felt I could do more. I continued to find instances of out tech and off policy actions that were not being handled properly per Keeping Scientology Working and I felt the ethical thing for me to do was to move higher up in the hierarchy of Scientology so that I could make a bigger difference. The highest organization I knew of at that time was the Guardian's Office. At AOLA we thought of the Guardian's Office as the part of Scientology that was getting ethics in on the whole society so that Scientology's expansion would not be hindered by SPs. I thought that I would be able to make a bigger difference as a staff member in the Guardian's Office, so I went into the Guardian's Office.

Much to my dismay, I found the same problems in the Guardian's Office. People were doing off policy things and no one was correcting them. The most senior members of the Guardian's Office were doing the most off policy things and lower level staff were being blamed for things they hadn't done. I became an Establishment Officer (EstO) in the U.S. Guardian's Office. In that position I was directly responsible for seeing that tech and ethics were in a hundred percent. I worked very hard to try to accomplish this, but instead I found that I was in trouble most of the time for what seemed to me to be honest attempts to correct the outnesses I saw. Somehow my seniors were blaming me for trying to get policy in. I was bewildered and confused by this.

Then in 1981 the Commodore's Messenger Org (CMO) took over the Guardian's Office. Everyone in the Guardian's Office had to do heavy ethics for months and months for having been a part of an organization that was so out ethics and off policy. Even though I had tried my best to handle the out ethics and off policy actions that I saw, I still had to do heavy ethics myself for not having done a better job of handling it. I had not had much experience with the CMO before that, but I thought I had finally found the highest level of Scientology and that in the CMO there were people who truly understood ethics, tech and admin and were doing what I wanted to do -- get ethics in on the rest of Scientology and the planet so that Scientology could expand and flourish and prosper.

In 1982 I was promoted to work directly with David Miscavige. He was not only the head of the CMO; he was the head of all of Scientology. I was very excited because finally I was going to be able to work with people who were completely ethical and were applying Scientology policy and tech to the letter. This is what I had been looking for since I joined the Sea Org, and finally I had found it. It was a great day for me when I reported to my post at Author Services, Inc. (ASI), the organization that at that time was running Scientology under David Miscavige's command. I was to be his Organizing Officer (Org Officer). This meant I would be right at the top of the Scientology command lines, able to have a very large effect on keeping ethics, tech and policy in thorughout Scientology.

But soon I began to see things that disturbed me. Miscavige seemed to get angry very easily, over small things. When he got angry he would yell very loudly, and he used very vulgar language. This did not seem to me to be the kind of behavior the head of Scientology should display. He was not setting a good example for the rest of the staff. At first I thought he must just be in a very stressful situation. But I began to find that this was really the way he was.

Every week, each ASI staff member was required to write a weekly report on our activities. Miscavige reviewed our reports, and we were not allowed to go home until he had approved them. The reports were due on Tuesday night. Every week, Miscavige would reject the reports repeatedly, and in practice we ended up not being able to sleep from Tuesday until Friday night, every single week. I tried to tell him that this wasn't OK, but he just got angry at me and nothing changed.

So the staff at ASI were exhausted all the time, because even on the nights when we were allowed to go home we never got enough sleep. Miscavige was always angry at someone, screaming obscenities at them at the top of his lungs. He screamed so loudly that I could hear him down on the street. ASI was on the ninth floor of an office building in downtown Hollywood, so this was really bad PR for Scientology. I could hear him screaming, "You're a f---ing idiot! You f---ing moron! Get the f--- out of here! You're in a f---ing lower condition!" all the way down on the street. It was a nightmare for me to discover that the senior Scientologist in the world was such an off policy executive.

I was ordered by Miscavige to do many things that were grossly out tech. The first time was at about four in the morning one night. Miscavige ordered me to take a staff member into the courseroom and Method 9 word clear him on the entire PR Series and not to let him go home till it was done. (For those who don't know, Method 9 word clearing -- M9 for short -- involves one person reading the text of a bulletin or policy out loud while another person -- the coach -- follows along and watches for any sign of a misunderstood word (MU). Such signs include stumbling on a word, fidgeting, looking away, or anything other than reading the text perfectly. If one of these things happens, the coach directs the person to find the MU and then has the person look up all the definitions of the word.)

I was standing in front of Miscavige's desk when he gave me this order. What he was telling me to do was so out tech that I was dumbfounded. I had been an auditor and a supervisor, and there was no way anyone could get me to commit out tech deliberately. I couldn't believe what was happening. On one hand, I was a Scientologist and therefore bound to keep the tech standard. On the other hand, here was the most senior Scientologist on the planet ordering me to do something that was grossly out tech. I knew I would get in trouble for it, but I told Miscavige I couldn't do it. I told him it was out tech. Miscavige was furious that I had said this. "What did you say?" he screamed at me. Then he turned to Terri Gamboa and said, "Did you hear that? I can't believe this!" He was really angry at me and demanded to know who was on my lines that was causing me to be so disaffected. I didn't understand what he meant at all. I just said, "Sir, that staff member hasn't slept for two days. It would be out tech for me to word clear him when he hasn't had sufficient rest."

Then Miscavige actually demanded to know what policy I was operating on, and I ran and got the Student's Guide to Acceptable Behavior and gave it to him. He looked at it for a minute and then flung it back at me. "Where in that bulletin does it say a person has to have sufficient rest to be word cleared?" Of course, it didn't say that exactly, so Miscavige then accused me of altering the tech by refusing to M9 this staff member on the entire PR Series at four in the morning after the staff member hadn't slept for two days. I had to do lower conditions for refusing to carry out Command Intention.

There were many other incidents like that during my short tenure at ASI. Miscavige also enjoyed humiliating the staff. One afternoon he got angry at one of the Treasury staff members and ordered the staff member to get down on his hands and knees and push a pencil down the entire length of the hall with his nose. Miscavige and the other senior executives stood watching him do it, laughing and making snide comments about how stupid the staff member was. There could be no other motivation for such a thing other than humiliation. I felt awful about it but was afraid to say anything because I didn't want to get in trouble myself.

One Thursday night a terrible thing happened. There was a man named Jim who was responsible for investing LRH's money. As you may know, the stock market is not always doing well. Sometimes the stock values go up, and sometimes they go down. But as you also know, in Scientology a person's stats are expected to go up every week. LRH had invested in gold, and that week the value of gold went down. Miscavige was furious at Jim for crashing LRH's investment stats. I was sitting in my office on Thursday evening when suddenly the door of Miscavige's office crashed open. My office was across the hall from the conference room, and I saw Miscavige, Norman Starkey and Terri Gamboa physically dragging Jim into the conference room.

For perhaps an hour and a half I could hear Miscavige screaming at Jim. It was clear from what he was saying that Jim was being gang-bang sec checked. This is when two or more people gang up on someone and interrogate them on the E-meter under extremely coercive circumstances. One person operates the meter while one or more others pace back and forth behind the person operating the E-meter and scream questions at the person. Miscavige was demanding to know why Jim was sabotaging LRH's investments. He was screaming at him, "Who do you really work for?" and "You'll never get away with this!" and "Why are you working for the enemy?" and "Are you working for the IRS?" There were many questions like this. Jim was a very dedicated staff member who would never dream of betraying LRH in a million years. I was appalled and horrified at what I was hearing. It was totally out tech and it was being done by the three top Scientologists in the world. I couldn't believe it.

Finally the door to the conference was flung open and Miscavige, Norman and Terri all stormed out of the room. Miscavige stopped at my door and ordered me to get in there and finish the job and not to let Jim leave until he had confessed who he was working for. I went into the room and found Jim sobbing uncontrollably with his head down on the table. He was very tall and thin, and was especially so at that time because he had not been sleeping very much and had not been eating well because of the stress of his post. I felt that he was on the brink of a serious breakdown. I put my hand on his shoulder and just kept my hand there until his sobbing subsided and he lifted his head. I don't think I've ever seen such despair in anyone's eyes. When he could finally speak he said, "Come on, Stacy, you've got to finish this. You'll get in a lot of trouble if you don't. Come on, I'm OK now. Let's go." It broke my heart. There was no way I was going to commit such atrocious out tech on anyone. I checked the hall to make sure it was clear, and then I told Jim to go home and get some sleep. He protested, but I insisted that he go.

I can't tell you how profoundly that incident shattered my illusions about Scientology and the Sea Org, to see someone with such a good heart being systematically broken by the very people who were supposed to be upholding ethics, tech and admin.

That evening, my commitment to Scientology began to fall apart. It would take eleven more years before I would finally make the decision not to be a Scientologist any more. But that was the evening when the first crack in my dedication appeared.

I only lasted eight months in ASI before I was sent to the RPF. There is a lot more I could tell you about my personal experiences in Scientology at the highest levels but what I've told you here will give you enough of an idea of why I am no longer in Scientology. I tried in every way I knew how to correct the things I saw from within. I finally had to conclude that it was impossible.

You are right when you say that most Scientologists are good-hearted, well-meaning people who truly believe they are helping people by being in Scientology and by defending Scientology against critics. I was one of those people for many years. Nothing anyone could say could make me doubt the goodness of Scientology, and if anyone said something critical to me about Scientology I immediately classified that person as someone who needed to be handled. I was the person assigned to do the dead-agent packs on the entheta books that were published about Scientology -- Bare-faced Messiah, Messiah or Madman, and others. I was utterly impervious to any criticism of Scientology at all. So I know how you feel, and I am surprised you have been able to continue to stay on this newsgroup as long as you have. You are honestly trying to get through to the critics, I can see that, and I respect you for it.

I hope your experience on the newsgroup will cause you to wonder a little bit about whether some of what they are saying might be true. Perhaps you will wonder if there might be some truth in what I have said here. I know that many Scientologists have told me they think I am lying, that these things never happened. You will probably react that way too. But maybe, just maybe, something that either I or someone else on the newsgroup has said will cause you to have just a little bit of a doubt, enough to start doing some research of your own. Go to our website and watch the video interviews of other people who have left Scientology. Find out why they left. See if you are willing to continue to support an organization that does the things these people describe.

I would be very happy to continue this conversation with you privately if you have any questions about I've said. I wish you no harm, Phil. I only want you to make sure that you are making an informed choice about the path your life takes. I wish someone had honestly tried to get through to me when I felt the way you do. I like to believe that I would have been willing to listen.

Stacy

On Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:53:28 -0600, Phil Chitester <dpchitester@yahoo.com>

wrote:

>bwarr1 wrote:
>
>> ARS has been woefully lacking in spam and silly clamor lately. Outside of
>> Chitester, Nelson, and the CCHR pawns, our supply of theta is dwindling.
>
>I cannot be counted upon to be here long due to my situation. I have a
>slight dwindling spiral problem, and a.r.s. is quickly enturbulating what
>free theta I had left. On the one hand, I detest the lies that are told (and
>I am beginning to believe that they are actual true beliefs held by the
>posters, which at first was a completely outlandish concept to me), on the
>other hand I have a natural desire to help others and to harmoniously align
>with them, and these two things are in such conflict that I am losing my
>mind. For instance, I can tell that El Queso and many others are intelligent
>and forthright persons, real human beings, but their viewpoint on my Church
>is so loathesome and unfair seeming to me that I cannot be friends with them,
>I just don't have that good an ability anymore.
>
>I do not think the Church is perfect, but liars have no business lying,
>slanderers no business slandering, no matter what 'rights' the law may appear
>to give them. If they were e-meter checked and it was established that they
>believed the lies were truth, then I might be less inclined to promote the
>silencing of them.
>
>But I know full well that people like Arnie Lerma, know they are lying and it
>is deliberate and malicious to an extreme that it defies all reason that they
>have not been done away with by someone they are close to, they are that
>evil. But apparently there are too many people who haven't got the ability
>to investigate impartially and readily go into agreement with their black
>propaganda. I hope Barb is such a person. I know the Rice's, ptsc, nomen
>nescio, Roland, anti-cult, antivirus, etc., people like this aren't. They
>have an axe to grind and they must destroy all that is good, and the others
>are merely pawns in their suppressive game. I hope they lose all their
>ability to lie and slander. It would be no loss, would it? Except to the
>SPs.
>
>> Now, the concept of Agent Provocateur is not a new one in the big world,
>> but it does seem that a few people really stand out as possible APs.
>> Tigger, for example, and her spiritual clone, ultramichael. They claim to
>> be critics of Scientology, but seem so much more concerned with trashing
>> individuals than addressing the issues most of us are concerned with.
>
>I have not read one post of theirs which was not either off-topic or simply
>mindless bullshit which served no pertinent purpose, kind of like eating
>oatmeal with no butter or seasonings for breakfast. Yuck! I suggest we ask
>them to leave.
>
>> Tigger...what can I say? She lies.
>
>> <snip>
>>
>> You have to ask yourself what these people's agendas are. There is very
>> little content to their posts regarding Scientology.
>
>I agree.
>
>> They are focussed on individuals who post here. And discrediting the Trust;
>> whose agenda parallels that goal? OSA, maybe?
>
>Simply makes no sense, that is for sure. Let's vote them out. Oh, I forgot,
>this is not a democracy, this is an anarchy.
>
>> Many people here are honest folk who take people at face value.
>
>I have been so incensed by people's posts that I have never taken that the
>least into consideration. It doesn't matter to me. Anyone holding these
>opinions of my Church, I don't seem to want to bother to grant them any
>beingness.
>
>> ARS is going to have to learn to adjust to this new cult tactic.
>
>I don't see any tactic, myself. I only see apathy. They have given up on
>trying to reform a.r.s.ians.
>
>> Although ARS is a contentious newsgroup, it lately has become
>> alt.religion.slamthetrust.
>
>I don't mind that so much, myself. But any attention one gives them is
>wasted attention.
>
>> Hundreds of posts for Bob, against Bob, against people who like Bob, for
>> people who have Bob on toast every morning.
>
>This is the Mintosis support newsgroup. The only newsgroup where he'll ever
>see anything resembling support for his psychoses or neuroses. I say cease
>supporting insanity.
>
>> Tigger and ultramichael may not be actual APs, but they're running a pretty
>> good simulation.
>
>I just think that is in their nature to be that irresponsible. And get
>publicity for it.
>
>> The cult is behind a great deal of this turmoil,
>
>Nonsense. Don't start with this lie again.
>
>> bank on it, and critics are filling in the blanks, doing OSA's job.
>
>You overestimate their (Church staff) interest in complexity, duplicity,
>covert hostility, and revenge. These are not what these people are like at
>all. They are very honest, forthright, simple people, like Tory, and as
>perhaps you would characterize yourselves. Ever read the 'third-party law?'
>This is what is happening here. Total lies and slander of good people,
>perhaps on both sides of the issues. I think if there were no third-parties
>hidden and unseen or undetected and creating them (primarily
>ex-scientologists who are SPs and squirrels and psychs), there would be no
>conflicts evidenced here. These third-parties are trying to ruin every man,
>woman and child's chance to achieve total freedom. And perhaps they have
>backers such as the world bankers who control the governments. Who could
>compete with such evil?
>
>The information in the preceding paragraph is quite the pinnacle of what they
>don't want you to know. See if they don't quickly try and debunk and
>invalidate it, ridicule it. Of course they do. It is their only chance to
>ruin everyone's lives, if they can remain hidden and continue to spread lies
>and slander. If they do not succeed in debunking it, then they will be
>exposed for what they are and will be defeated. This is basic.
>
>Success probably depends on the ability of the common man to differentiate
>between the trained Scientologist and the trained ex-Scientologist SP. The
>intentions and objectives being all there is to go on (statistics won't work,
>they have them), this appears to be an impossibility, as the people don't
>seem to have the knowledge and aren't able to grant any validity to the fact
>that the Church simply has made a few enemies and they are out to destroy the
>Church and the people all in one swoop and blithely lie and slander the
>Church to everyone they can. This is beyond the common belief, after the
>apostates have told them their black propaganda. They are quick, they are
>deft, cunning, and evil beyond normal comprehension.
>
>In other words, only the trained Scientologist is capable of detecting and
>discarding the apostate lies, they are too cunningly conceived and involve
>the subject of the mind and spirit, a subject which is not widely known about
>except in Scientology. It may well be that only trained Scientologists will
>survive, all the others being either enemies or dupes, will have to be
>disposed of. I predict that this will only be a very small percentage of the
>population. Why be in it? Wise up.
>
>> The news and picket reports are getting lost, buried in the flood. The
>> walls are going up on the Superpower building, and Davey is dancing with
>> glee at the discord that threatens to fracture opposition to his criminal
>> enterprise.
>
>I would never characterize DM as being in glee. Perhaps he is happy with
>certain things. That could be.
>
>> Get back on course, people. Focus! You don't have to like any faction here,
>> but you don't need to advertise it. That only benefits the cult.
>
>Nothing on here benefits the Church, that is the primary problem. Not only
>that, it is a disaster that innocent people can stumble on here and be black
>propagandized with false data and lies and be directed to critical web sites
>which contain nothing but misleading and slanderous contents. And these
>third-parties are the ones in glee about it all. This is the religious
>equivalent of the porno promotion newsgroups.
>
>I have a hard time trying to figure out how I will convince any of you now,
>that my Church is the sanist, most ethical group that I've ever known. When
>will you people learn this? Why do you believe the lies? Can you people
>please try harder to remove the black curtain of other-induced prejudice and
>look at the truth? Ignore people like Andreas. He does not want you to
>benefit from Scientology, he is opposed to it.
>
>You have probably read many Hubbard writings out of context. Try and start
>over and ignore the impressions that they (the third-parties) have created.
>Study Dianetics, or another Scientology publication from the beginning.
>
>I recommend Self-Analysis. I had nothing but good come from that book. You
>can get improvement in your life every day with it.
>
>Phil

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