Unedited (by court reporter and Stacy Brooks)depo of Stacy Brooks as LMT rep on August 15?, 2001
1 2 MR. FUGATE: I think the easiest way to 3 describe it is the judge, that is Judge Quesada had entered 4 an order on April 25th and allowed additional 5 interrogatories. We filed the number that are attached here 6 and you answered them and there were problems with the 7 answers and rather than do a motion to compel we've got 8 supplemental interrogatories to ask you to answer the 9 questions with what you -- the specificity we submit that 10 you left out. And I thought twal be easier to do that and 11 then we could do a motion to compel on both sets and get it 12 done at once at if end of the process. So -- usually what 13 we did was do motions to compel every time we'd go through 14 and this way there -- there's motions that deal with the 15 battery if you go back and look at them again they're pretty 16 THE COURT: Have you guys sat down -- how 17 many questions are we talking about?

18 MR. FUGATE: We're talking about this set 19 which are attached here judge -- 20 THE COURT: Well, how many are we talking?

21 How many individual interrogatories?

22 MR. FUGATE: Well, we asked for an additional 23 75 and the judge granted those to us and we used, I think, 24 30 some and this is 28. But these are 28 that specify 25 answers that were, you know, given -- 2 1 THE COURT: Have you two sat down and gone 2 over them to indicate which ones you -- that he might be 3 able to say, yeah, I can answer that one without any 4 evidence.

5 MR. FUGATE: No. Actually I sent this to him 6 I think on Friday because we were trying to get you while 7 you were here so I don't know if he has or not. I sent a 8 letter on the 13th, I think.

9 MR. DANDAR: Let me look it over right now.

10 MR. FUGATE: Okay.

11 THE COURT: My point is if you can look them 12 over and see that there are interrogatories that you agree 13 should be answered more fully then we can do it a lot 14 quicker that way. Otherwise we'll take them one by one.

15 That can be time-consuming.

16 MR. DANDAR: Well, I'm looking at -- correct 17 me -- I'm looking at your proposed 11.

18 MR. FUGATE: Proposed.

19 MR. DANDAR: What's fwlont of that?

20 MR. FUGATE: What's in front of that are your 21 answers.

22 MR. FUGATE: They're all blank. Oh, that's 23 the definitions, 21 paragraphs.

24 MR. FUGATE: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

25 MR. DANDAR: Of definitions. Ycyour 3 1 answered -- 2 MR. DANDAR: See at one time judge Quesada 3 said identify the person, identify what that person said, 4 and he eliminated the go to the deposition and give me page 5 and line numbers that you guys requested., am I correct?, am 6 I correct?

7 SPEAKER B: I don't know.

8 MR. DANDAR: We have a disagreement. I think 9 that's so tedious.

10 SPEAKER B: That's not how we're answering 11 yours {this is.

12 SPEAKER A: Fix fix}.

13 THE COURT: Well, my reaction is when I heard 14 that number one I've never ever had that happen in my 33 or 15 4 yours on the bench and I just think it's unduly burn some 16 for either side.

17 MR. FUGATE: Before we go back and reinvent 18 the wheel on that though these questions are if you just 19 look at them identify -- 20 MR. DANDAR: Actually they look okay you know 21 but it's just -- how many more sets of them are am I going 22 to get?

23 MR. FUGATE: Depends on how complete the 24 answers are.

25 MR. DANDAR: Hundreds of interrogatories 4 1 already.

2 MR. FUGATE: Yeah. Well -- 3 What I would -- Judge I don't know I guess we've 4 been doing this for so long that who seems the best way to 5 do it is if he answers these that may negate the necessity 6 for doing a motion to compel and if there really are issues 7 we can identify what the issues are and we can do a motion 8 to compel and I think if you're looking at them ken, you 9 know it asks you to identify which corporations you're 10 talking about. That can't be hard to do. Identify -- you 11 know, identify which expert is -- 12 MR. DANDAR: Well, there's some in here that 13 just say identify page numbers of depositions. Like number 14 21. 20.

15 THE COURT: Well, as I understand it then 16 what you're saying is you -- 17 MR. DANDAR: 17 -- 18 THE COURT: -- want mim to go ahead and 19 answer the displenlt Mr. Supplementals and then whatever you 20 get hung up on come back and argue them on.

21 MR. DANDAR: That's fine.

22 MR. FUGATE: That just seems like the fastest 23 way -- 24 MR. DANDAR: Give me till September 15th.

25 THE COURT: Okay.

5 1 MR. FUGATE: Okay.

2 MR. DANDAR: After your summary judgment 3 motion.

4 THE COURT: And when you get into a sfeuky 5 area caul each other and talk and see if you can resolve it 6 over the phone before you rush off to court, will you? I 7 like that idea. I just thought of that.

8 MR. DANDAR: Well, I think in the last eight 9 or nine months we've been.

10 THE COURT: You seem pretty friendly people.

11 MR. DANDAR: That's because you're here.

12 MR. FUGATE: Judge here's an order and I'm 13 going to write in here after your -- this is just a short 14 order that says it's granted but it doesn't say when you 15 want to serve -- you want to serve answers by the 15th.

16 MR. DANDAR: Yeah. That'll be good.

17 MR. FUGATE: All right.

18 MR. DANDAR:

19 DR. GARKO: Looks like we're missing the 20 deponent.

21 THE COURT: Pardon? Kdlooks like we're 22 missing the deponent.

23 THE COURT: Yeah. Well, are we ready to go?

24 MR. MOXON: I'm ready to ego. I don't know 25 where the witness is, Mr. Dandar?

6 1 MR. MOXON: Are we off the record?

2 MR. FUGATE: It would be easier to -- 3 THE COURT: That's yours? That's fine.

4 There's yours.

5 DR. GARKO: No. I was.

6 (.

7 (A discussion was held off the record.)

8 (A recess was taken.)

9 .

10 _______________________________________ 11 .

12 WITNESS , 13 the deponent herein, being first duly sworn, was examined 14 and testified as follows:

15 DIRECT EXAMINATION 16 THE COURT: Bob beach, senior judge presiding 17 and for the benefit of the attorney for the witness who has 18 not been before me, there are four reasons to object and 19 instruct the witness not to answer the question. Work 20 product, trade secret, self-incrimination, and confidential 21 communication between the client and the lawyer. And those 22 are the ones that I'll consider.

23 MR. MERRETT: There are other privileges 24 which are likely to be implicated.

25 THE COURT: Well, any kind of a privilege 7 1 that might.

2 THE COURT: Go ahead.

3 BY MR. MOXON:

4 Q For the record, we've been waiting since 1:00 for 5 the deposition to begin which is when it was scheduled.

6 MR. MERRETT: Okay. And since we're being 7 twiksed {}for the record this deposition is being held in 8 Hillsborough County. The witness resized and transacts all 9 her business in Pinellas County she is in this county 20 or 10 25 miles removed on short notice as a courtesy to counsel 11 and the other parties involved now we can proceed with the 12 deposition.

13 MR. MOXON: That's right this is a court he 14 is yiksz.

15 THE COURT: You'll address all objections to 16 me there'll be no twight in other words, I don't want any 17 sarcafntion afks passing between the attorneys you're here 18 to take a discovery deposition you'll act professionly if I 19 feel you're not I'll take measures.

20 BY MR. MOXON:

21 Q Ms. Brooks you're here as the representative of 22 the Lisa McPherson trust incorporated?

23 A Yes.

24 Q You were instructed on preponderance 10th, 2000 by 25 judge moody -- that is L MT was instructed to produce tape 8 1 recordings of various materials, that is any statements with 2 respect to any witnesses, any person of a witness anyone who 3 is a witness in this case and he said in particular produce 4 a remettative of the trust who can testify about any 5 payments made to witnesses any interviews of witnesses in 6 this case any documents they may have about witnesses in 7 this case. Are you competent to testify about those issues?

8 A Yes.

9 Q Who selected you to testify?

10 A I did.

11 Q Are you the custodian of records for LMT?

12 A I'm the president.

13 Q Are you the custodian of records for LMT?

14 A I don't believe we have an official custodian of 15 yordz.

16 Q Well, who -- 17 A But I'm in charge of the LMT.

18 Q So you're overall in charge of records then also.

19 A Yes.

20 Q Okay. On August 10th I received a memo that was 21 delivered to my office. We'll mark as Exhibit 1.

22 (PARTY EXHIBIT Exhibit 23 Number Number marked for identification.)

24 BY MR. MOXON:

25 PLF'S COUNSEL: Is that this year?

9 1 MR. MOXON: Yes.

2 PLF'S COUNSEL: Thank you.

3 BY MR. MOXON:

4 Q Is this the response of the Lisa McPherson trust 5 to the orders from judge moody and to judge question sada 6 and the document requests?

7 A I don't know what this is, actually.

8 Q You've never seen it before?

9 A I don't know. I have a response to the document 10 request today.

11 Q But you've never before seen Exhibit 1.

12 A I don't -- not that I remember.

13 MR. MOXON: Mr. Merret is there a document 14 request that you're going to be producing with respect to 15 the documents that were already ordered to be produced.

16 MR. MERRETT: Well.

17 MR. MOXON: Or can you tell me what Exhibit 1 18 is? Because it says it's to me from you.

19 MR. MERRETT: Well, what you need to do is 20 number one intergate the witness, number 2 you need to 21 clarify because we're dealing with two very different things 22 here. In addition to following up on the matters that are 23 covered in the court's orders you've also attempted a second 24 deposition well beyond the scope of the court's order. This 25 is production in response to your letter last preceding that 10 1 date.

2 BY MR. MOXON:

3 Q All right. You make no representation then 4 Ms. Brooks as to whether or not a response has been made to 5 the court orders, May 15th, July 19th, November 20th and 6 January 10th?

7 A I would have to see all those things in order to 8 be able to respond.

9 Q Well, there were four court orders that were 10 issued to your appearance today {}.

11 A Okay. I.

12 Q Are you aware of that?

13 A Well, let me just look and see what I have here.

14 Yes. This was the documents that we put together.

15 And then -- 16 Q Let me ask you a specific question. You've now 17 looked at the four court orders I just referenced, correct?

18 A No. I don't have those. Just a second -- 19 Q Okay.

20 A I have.

21 Do you have them?

22 Q Ms. Brooks you're aware of the court orders that 23 were against LMT requiring production of records?

24 A Yes. But -- 25 Q Okay. Assault -- is what I have marked as Exhibit 11 1 1 the, if you will, and complete response to those four 2 court orders?

3 A I can't remember what this is. (inaudible) 4 MR. MERRETT: Then tell him that.

5 A I can't remember what that's in response to. I'm 6 sorry.

7 BY MR. MOXON:

8 Q You've never seen Exhibit 1 before. Do you know 9 who put it together?

10 A I went through -- 11 Q Do you -- just tell me if you could -- I'm sorry.

12 I don't want to interrupt you, but I know -- been in 13 depositions before and I forgot to give you this admon.

14 MR. MERRETT: At the beginning but we have 15 very little time and I just have some very specific 16 questions. If you could tell me if you know who put 17 together Exhibit 1, please?

18 A Yes.

19 Q Who?

20 A Well, it was a combination of myself, who went 21 through the financial stuff -- 22 Q Who else?

23 A And -- and then I asked one of my staff to help me 24 put it together.

25 Q Who's that?

12 1 A That was -- I believe it was ingrid wagner.

2 Q Is what I've marked as Exhibit 1 a, if you will, 3 and complete response to the four court orders giving rise 4 to this deposition?

5 MR. MERRETT: I'm going to object as asked 6 and answered. The witness has said three times she doesn't 7 know. And I would ask that he you not allow the witness to 8 be badgered like this this is going to go on all afternoon 9 if you don't stop it now.

10 THE COURT: Well, I -- she is expected to 11 know these answers to these questions since she is the 12 person representing the trust, is that correct?

13 MR. MERRETT: He's not asking her about 14 production he's asking her about a particular object and 15 she's already said she doesn't know what it is.

16 THE COURT: All right. Well, that's her 17 answer.

18 BY MR. MOXON:

19 Q Okay. Please give me the document production, all 20 the tapes, all the statements, all the videos, and all the 21 checks that respond to the four court orders that I've just 22 stated.

23 A With regard to the video tapes, I'm sorry but 24 they're a little bit late. They'll be delivered probably 25 within a half an hour. They weren't quite ready when I had 13 1 to leave. But they will be here. And with regard to -- 2 forgive my confusion but there's a new subpoena.

3 Q I'm not talking about the subpoena; I'm talking 4 about the court orders,.

5 A Okay. -- 6 Q The four court orders.

7 A I've put together documents in response to the 8 subpoena that I thought I was appearing here today to be 9 goedz for.

10 Q Let me renew my question {}please produce for me 11 other than the tapes you say will be here in half an hour, 12 all the records that are responsive to the court's orders.

13 THE COURT: Let's do this. Get the court 14 order out -- 15 MR. MOXON: Okay.

16 THE COURT: We'll write down go right down 17 the list and ask each item on the list if this witness has 18 each item in her possession.

19 MR. MOXON: Okay. Good.

20 THE COURT: And if not, ask why and -- 21 MR. MOXON: First is all financial -- 22 THE COURT: First let's get the date of the 23 order.

24 MR. MOXON: The first date of the order I'm 25 quoting from is dated May 15th, 2000.

14 1 THE COURT: Okay.

2 A Okay.

3 THE COURT: Give her a chance to get the 4 order.

5 MR. MOXON: Okay. It was attached to the 6 letter I fax Ed to your attorney last week.

7 A That's starts outs I am in receipt of your letter 8 today, August 7th?

9 Q Yes.

10 A Okay. May 15th. Okay.

11 Q All right. "all financial records regarding the 12 payment to any person identified at any time as a witness in 13 this case." do you have records responsive to that request?

14 A Yes. But can I just make a clarification?

15 Q Sure.

16 A In the subpoena that was served on the first of 17 August, those things that were in the court order were laid 18 out in several different categories, and what I have today 19 is response to the court order, but laid out in the 20 categories that I think you laid them out in the latest 21 subpoena.

22 Q Okay.

23 A So -- 24 Q -- give them to me, if you would, please.

25 A They're not labeled what they are, though, so I 15 1 might have to explain them to you.

2 THE COURT: Well, I think so it's best if for 3 the record to dislieb each and every document which you have 4 brought in compliance with that particular provision of that 5 order so it'll be clear.

6 PLF'S COUNSEL: Lingless I think it's a good 7 idea to mark each and every document.

8 THE COURT: Right.

9 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

10 MR. MOXON: Right great. I think that's a 11 good idea.

12 A Well -- 13 BY MR. MOXON:

14 Q So first, all financial records regarding the 15 payment to any person identified at any time as a witness in 16 this case.

17 A Okay. Well, I mean, this whole thing is 18 responsive to that.

19 Q Okay.

20 A But.

21 Q Why don't you identify that for the record and 22 we'll mark it as an exhibit.

23 THE COURT: Each separate document. Identify 24 it for us.

25 A Yes, sir.

16 1 THE COURT: By date and description of the 2 document.

3 A Okay. Well -- 4 MR. MERRETT: All you need to do is look at 5 what's in your hand and tell us what it is.

6 THE WITNESS: Okay.

7 MR. MERRETT: And then go through the stack.

8 A {}.

9 A These are paycheeks to Jeff Jacobson -- 10 MR. MOXON: We'll mark that as Exhibit 2.

11 (PARTY EXHIBIT Exhibit 12 Number Number marked for identification.)

13 A These are paychecks to gray ward.

14 MR. MOXON: Mark that as Exhibit 3.

15 (PARTY EXHIBIT Exhibit 16 Number Number marked for identification.)

17 A Paychecks to Theresa summers.

18 MR. MOXON: Mark that as Exhibit 4.

19 (PARTY EXHIBIT Exhibit 20 Number Number marked for identification.)

21 A Paychecks to jess seprince.

22 MR. MOXON: Mark that as Exhibit 5.

23 (PARTY EXHIBIT Exhibit 24 Number Number marked for identification.)

25 A Paycheeks to Stacy Brooks.

17 1 MR. MOXON: Mark that as Exhibit 6.

2 (PARTY EXHIBIT Exhibit 3 Number Number marked for identification.)

4 A Paychecks to mark bunker.

5 MR. MOXON: That'll be Exhibit 7.

6 (PARTY EXHIBIT Exhibit 7 Number Number marked for identification.)

8 A And these are checks that have been written to 9 jess seprince or Stacy Brooks or mark bunker or gray ward or 10 Jeff Jacobson from the LMT.

11 MR. MOXON: Which are not paychecks?

12 A Right. Which are not paychecks.

13 MR. MOXON: Mark that as Exhibit 8.

14 (PARTY EXHIBIT Exhibit 15 Number Number marked for identification.)

16 A These are payroll records.

17 MR. MOXON: That.

18 MR. MOXON: That will be marked as Exhibit 9.

19 (PARTY EXHIBIT Exhibit 20 Number Number marked for identification.)

21 A These are payments to Dennis deflamming for jess 22 seprince's criminal case {criminal}.

23 MR. MOXON: That'll be marked as Exhibit 10.

24 (PARTY EXHIBIT Exhibit 25 Number Number marked for identification.)

18 1 A And these are payments to Bob Minton, from the 2 LMT.

3 MR. MOXON: Be marked as Exhibit 11.

4 (PARTY EXHIBIT Exhibit 5 Number Number marked for identification.)

6 BY MR. MOXON:

7 Q Now, is what you've just given me, do you 8 represent this to be the, if you will, and complete 9 compliance with the court's order to produce all financial 10 records regarding the payment to any person identified at 11 any time as a witness in this case?

12 A Yes.

13 Q You represent there are no checks, no amounts of 14 money that were given to any other person who was ever 15 identified as a witness in this case?

16 A That's correct.

17 Q What you've marked as Exhibit 11 are two checks to 18 Robert minton, one in the amount of $200,000 and one in the 19 amount of $150,000?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Is that a payroll to Mr. Minton?

22 A No.

23 Q What is it?

24 A It's a loan repayment.

25 Q Mr. Minton loaned $350,000 to the corporation?

19 1 A More than that.

2 Q How much did Mr. Minton loan to the corporation?

3 A That represents $650,000. The second piece of 4 paper is a -- it's a record -- it's a bank record of a 5 transfer to him.

6 So the total is $650,000.

7 Q Mr. Minton loaned $650,000 to LMT?

8 A Yes.

9 Q Is Mr. Mintonrepaid that money out of funds that 10 he gave to the company?

11 A No.

12 Q What is the source of the funds from which 13 Mr. Minton was paid the $600,000?

14 A I don't believe I'm required to answer that within 15 the scope of the deposition {}i'm required to answer 16 payments to witnesses. But I'm not required to tell you 17 where we got our money.

18 Q What was the source of the funds from which this 19 money was given to Mr. Minton?

20 A As I said I don't believe I'm required to answer 21 that question. I don't believe it's part of the court order 22 covered in this deposition.

23 MR. MOXON: Judge Beach, there's a 24 counterclaim in this -- in addition to all the issues with 25 respect to payments to witnesses, there's also the issue of 20 1 in the counterclaim that Mr. Minton and through the -- and 2 the LMT itself are controlling this litigation and making 3 payments to witnesses. The issue of who has invested in 4 LMT, who the investors are in this case is a central issue 5 to the counterclaim, a central issue to all these matters 6 that we've raised here. It's certainly not privileged as to 7 the persons that make investments in a for profit 8 corporation.

9 THE COURT: As I understand your question it 10 was what were the source of the funds to Mr. Minton?

11 MR. MOXON: What were the source of the funds 12 from which this $600,000 was paid to Mr. Minton.

13 THE COURT: Okay. Want to be heard on it.

14 MR. MERRETT: Neither Mr. Minton nor the LMT 15 has been naismd as a party in that -- the purpose of this is 16 investigation of the activities of the LMT because the LMT 17 is opposed generally to what Scientology does. The 18 information is privileged under the N AACP case under first 19 amendment and associational privilege. This is a private 20 business which is not itself a witness or a party to the 21 case and what they're seeking is financial disclosure of its 22 sources of income. They've already disclosed payments going 23 out to people who are alleged to be witnesses in the case, 24 which is potentially relevant but sources of income of a 25 nonparty corporation are -- are -- they're beyond the scope 21 1 of what we're here for which is to comply with that court 2 order regarding payments to witnesses.

3 THE COURT: Well, I think this. First of all 4 I'm not sure there is a privilege. But secondly, even 5 though you're not a party why once you insert yourself into 6 the activity of a lawsuit such as you have in this dace case 7 then I think they're entitled to know the relevancy of all 8 your activity in the case,.

9 MR. MERRETT: I'm curious why the conclusion 10 that we've been inserted in the lawsuit comes from we've 11 been subpoenaed 15 times.

12 THE COURT: Well, if you are financing people 13 {}who are witnesses in the case then you're involved in the 14 case.

15 MR. MERRETT: They are employees for other 16 purposes and that's been disclosed. They work for the LMT 17 on a day-to-day basis and that's been disclosed.

18 MR. MERRETT: In this case.

19 THE COURT: No.

20 MR. MERRETT: No.

21 THE COURT: They're not involved in this case 22 whatsoever they're not going to testify in this case.

23 MR. MERRETT: They have been listed in 24 thisicallyly because Scientology with the exception I think 25 jess ski finings process condition expert witness and 22 1 vice-president thaeufer been listed for purpose of probing 2 their financial affairs none of these people have anything 3 about this girl's defendant and.

4 THE COURT: If they had nod died this trust 5 would not be here, correct.

6 A That's incorrect, sir.

7 THE COURT: It was set up before she passed 8 away.

9 A No, sir. But the reason it's named Lisa McPherson 10 trust is because she has become an international inthoal of 11 the concerns that people have about Scientology, but if she 12 had not died it would have been set up and named something 13 else. The Lisa McPherson trust is not in fact related to 14 this Lisa McPherson lawsuit in any way.

15 THE COURT: There's no money from there trust 16 going into this suit directly or not at all.

17 A No, sir. Not at all.

18 MR. MOXON: That's correct.

19 THE COURT: For if maintenance of np 20 witnesses.

21 A No, sir.

22 THE COURT: For the payment of any costs of 23 witnesses.

24 A No, sir.

25 THE COURT: Witness fees,.

23 1 A No.

2 THE COURT: Or investigation.

3 A No.

4 THE COURT: Or videos.

5 A No.R.

6 THE COURT: Or statements.

7 A No, sir.

8 THE COURT: Nothing.

9 A Nothing. Really and trually the Lisa McCeron the 10 trust has nothing to do with the Lisa McPherson wlaut.

11 THE COURT: What is the purpose of the trust?

12 A To expose the deceptive and abusive practices of 13 Scientology and to help people who have been abused -- who 14 have been victimized by it.

15 THE COURT: And what is the purpose of naming 16 it after Lisa McPherson.

17 A As I said Lisa McPherson became a symbol 18 internationally of the kinds of concerns people have about 19 Scientology's conduct. If Lisa McPherson hadn't died the 20 Lisa McFerson trust would have another name but it would 21 continue to -- I mean, it would have existed regardless of 22 what happened to Lisa McPherson.

23 THE COURT: Okay. You want to respond to 24 that?

25 MR. MOXON: Yes, your Honor. The -- Judge 24 1 Quesada has addressed these issues at great length. I don't 2 know if you saw the memorandum opinions from, Judge 3 Quesada -- 4 THE COURT: I read all the orders that were 5 given to me.

6 MR. MOXON: The three opinions on January 10 7 t went through in some detail the history of our attempts to 8 get this sort of information over the past year and a half 9 and the three actually four orders from judge questionsad 10 including substantial sanctions against Lisa McPherson trust 11 for failing to respond to the discovery and provide these 12 documents. Contrary to what the witness is telling you 13 they're knee-deep in this case and that's what the 14 counterclaim says, that's the pending counterclaim and 15 that's what Judge Quesada found {}that over a million 16 dollars has been put in by Mr. Minton and a lot of the 17 witnesses -- in fact the alleged expert witness jess print 18 was paid $500 a month by Mr. Dandar for a long time and then 19 was shifted over to Lisa McPherson trust where he continues 20 to act as the alleged expert witness and expert consultant 21 in this case. Indeed Ms. Brooks is alleged to have been an 22 expert consultant in this case and was paid by the Lisa 23 McPherson frustin this case. {} anyrait these are set forth 24 in great lectin the memorandum opinion of Judge Quesada 25 who's been through all this and sanctioned all these 25 1 individuals {}for refusing to provide this information. So 2 I don't know if you had a chance to see the counterclaim, 3 but the counterclaim identifies both minton and Lisa 4 McPherson trust as coconspirators in the abuse of process 5 here by way of intimidation of witnesses, by way of paying 6 witnesses, a lot of the witnesses that have been identified 7 by Mr. Dandar and used by Mr. Dandar including Ms. Brooks 8 here has filed three {}factual affidavits in this case are 9 paid by the Lisa McPherson trust. Mr. Minton has admitted 10 that in sworn testimony as have the parties in this case one 11 party, the plaintiff and her sister who's one of the 12 beneficiaries of the status, that the Lisa McPherson trust 13 is going to get the money from this case. They are the 14 primary beneficiary. They're supposed to get the -- and 15 that's a finding of fact by Judge Quesada. So to say 16 they're not involved in this case is just obviously not 17 accurate.

18 PLF'S COUNSEL: May I respond.

19 THE COURT: You may.

20 PLF'S COUNSEL: I don't think there was one 21 ounce of truth that came out of that statement you just 22 heard. Number one Judge Quesada -- you've the orders in 23 front of you -- does not make any findings of fact 24 connecting the Lisa McPherson trust to the plaintiff. There 25 is no agreement. All sworn testimony in this case is to the 26 1 contrary. All sworn testimony from the plaintiffs, the 2 plaintiff representative, her sisters, who are the ultimate 3 beneficiaries of the status of Lisa McPherson State there is 4 no agreement between the estate, the beneficiaries of the 5 status, with any third party. And including Bob Minton and 6 including Lisa McPherson trust. The only agreement that 7 exists, not even signed by me, but verbally assured by me 8 that whatever money Mr. Minton loans to me for financing, 9 defrag costs in this case if there's money obtained as a 10 result of this litigation he will be paid back the loan 11 without interest. Period. The Lisa McPherson trust is only 12 involved in this case because the Scientology filed {}a 13 counterclaim not naming them as a party but naiming them and 14 me as a matter of fact as coconspirators as trying to pay 15 unethically fact witnesses in this case. There is not one 16 ounce of evidence of that. Stacy Brooks by the way the only 17 thing she did in this case is obtained for me old affidavits 18 that she filed in other cases that she testified in on 19 behalf of victims of Scientology and I used those old 20 affidavits and filed those affidavits in this case. She was 21 never paid for those affidavits. Jess seprince is my expert 22 on Scientology matters. After I paid him to educate me on 23 Scientology, I then was finished with him on that portion of 24 his involvement. He went and started to work for the Lisa 25 McPherson trust where he works helping victims who either 27 1 want to leave Scientology or are being abused by 2 Scientology. Has nothing to do with this litigation. So 3 when they say payments to witnesses, the black letter of the 4 law on that is if you're paying a witness to testify in a 5 case you don't have the right to go into someone's perm 6 finances and obtain the information while they're working 7 for a third uninterested party. There's no connection 8 between the status of Lisa McPherson and the Lisa McPherson 9 trust except the name, which is my client gave them 10 permission to use her name because her death is 11 international knowledge, and because they do work that the 12 mother of Lisa McPherson want td somebody to do. But there 13 is absolutely no involvement, no promises, no contract, no 14 agreement, between the two-entities whatsoever. It's 15 Scientology brought them into this case and when you first 16 started out you said well, you lisa McFerson trust brought 17 yourself into this case that's not right that's totally 18 inconsistent. There is no agreement.

19 Theresa summers by the way happens to be an 20 employee of the Lisa McPherson trust. I just found her all 21 by myself, had her deposition scheduled, and about eight 22 months after I took her dems deposition she ended up working 23 for the Lisa McPherson trust.

24 That was tend of her involvement with me is taking 25 her deposition. There's no connection there. So the only 28 1 one that I will call to trill on this matter and the only 2 one that should be legitimately subject to any financial 3 discovery is Jessie prince who remains my expert on the 4 practices of Scientology. So this -- this bizarre and 5 brazemisrepresentations -- and we look at you as the court 6 ppd senior circuit judge, misrepresentations to a senior 7 court judge -- this has to stop. And Judge Quesada just 8 said well, let's have some discovery. I want counsel to 9 point out to me where he -- judge questions said you can 10 delve into the personal finances of the Lisa McPherson trust 11 that have nothing to do with the instant litigation.

12 MR. MOXON: I'll show you there.

13 PLF'S COUNSEL: That's not there.

14 MR. MERRETT: If I could just real briefly 15 turn the heat down.

16 PLF'S COUNSEL: I'm sorry I get ream excited 17 about this.

18 MR. MERRETT: Without regard to all this, 19 assuming it is correct thatJudge Quesada heard all this his 20 order is specific and it doesn't include funding to the 21 lmentsd MT. It's funding to witnesses, not funding to this 22 entity. After -- after hearing all this and going through 23 all these girations and making whatever findings of fact 24 were made he didn't order that the Lisa McPherson trust 25 disclose its own sources of fungdz but rather required that 29 1 the funding payments to witnesses.

2 THE COURT: Let me read the order again.

3 Twhats date of that order.

4 MR. MOXON: Your Honor here are three orders 5 I've highlighted and they're all dated January 10th all of 6 which repeat precisely what Mr. Dandar was just telling you.

7 Judge Quesada made specific fingth snvments refute precisely 8 fix.

9 THE COURT: I'm going to take about a 10 10 minute break and I'm going down to another office and I'm 11 going to read these again.

12 MR. MOXON: Okay.

13 (A recess was taken.)

14 THE COURT: I've read the three orders and 15 the counterclaim and based on the three orders and the 16 counterclaim, I think, that the inquiry is correct. I'm 17 going to overrule the objection and allow it to proceed.

18 MR. MOXON: Could you read back the question?

19 I'll give it to you again.

20 BY MR. MOXON:

21 Q What was the source of the funds from which the 22 $600,000 was given to Mr. Minton?

23 A The LMT received $300,000 from Operation Clambake 24 and the rest of it came from an anonymous source who I don't 25 know who it was.

30 1 THE COURT: I'm going to have to move my 2 chair up because I'm really having a hard time hearing.

3 THE WITNESS: Sorry, your Honor.

4 THE COURT: That's all right. No problem.

5 BY MR. MOXON:

6 Q Was this $300,000 you say came from an anonymous 7 source -- 8 A No. $300,000 came from operation clambake.

9 Q And how much came from an anonymous source?

10 A The rest of it.

11 Q So that's 350,000?

12 A Yes.

13 Q And what form did this $350,000 come nonmously to 14 LMT {in what form}.

15 A A wire transfer.

16 Q Did you get any papers on the wire transfer?

17 A No.

18 Q Just suddenly appeared in your account one day?, 19 is that right?

20 A Well, yeah. I mean, what happened was Mr. Minton 21 spoke to some people in Europe and arranged for some 22 contributions.

23 Q What people?

24 A I don't know. I don't know.

25 Q You're the chief financial officer of the company, 31 1 correct?

2 A Yes.

3 Q It's a for-profit corporation?

4 A In order to protect the sources of our funds, it 5 is a for-profit corporation. But it certainly isn't making 6 any profit. It's supported by donations only.

7 Q You have no idea who the people were that 8 Mr. Minton arranged to receive this money?

9 A No, I don't and that was part of the terms of the 10 money being received, because they were very afraid of 11 Scientology finding out who they are. They are familiar 12 with Scientology's harassment policies and they didn't want 13 to be known.

14 Q How do you know that?

15 A How do I know that?

16 Q How do you know the feelings of these people?

17 A Bob told me.

18 Q Mr. Minton knows who they are {so Mr. Minton}.

19 A You'd have to ask him.

20 Q You received no paperwork from the bank indicating 21 where this wire came from?

22 A No. Well, it came from a bank in Germany.

23 Q Germany. When did the wire come in?

24 A You'd have to show me the papers that I just gave 25 you.

32 1 Q I'm handing you back Defendant's Exhibit 11.

2 A In April, I believe.

3 Q April of 2001?

4 A I believe so.

5 Q And then on April 11th 2001, $300,000 was 6 transferred to Mr. Minton out of LMT accounts is that 7 correct?

8 A There was only one account and I paid him back.

9 He had loaned the LMT money and when we got that money I 10 gave it -- I loaned it back -- I mean, I paid it back to 11 him.

12 Q Is there a loan agreement?

13 A Yes.

14 Q A written loan agreement?

15 A No. No, it's not written.

16 Q An oral loan agreement?

17 A Yes.

18 Q How much is the oral loan agreement for?

19 A Well, the agreement is if he loans us money we'll 20 pay it back to him when we are able to.

21 Q This is an oral agreement between you and 22 Mr. Minton?

23 A Yes.

24 Q How much money did he loan the corporation?

25 A I believe a little bit more than 650,000.

33 1 Q No one saw fit to put this agreement in writing?

2 A He didn't require it.

3 Q And you didn't require it as the president and 4 chief financial officer of the corporation?

5 A No. I thought it was extremely generous of him to 6 loan us the money.

7 Q Are there any board minutes or any other corporate 8 records indicating the fact of this loan or any 9 circumstances of this loan from Mr. Minton?

10 A No.

11 Q No paper whatsoever?

12 A No.

13 Q When did he loan that money; Mr. Minton?

14 A I don't remember.

15 Q Now, the two other checks that are part of Exhibit 16 11 were both written in March, one on March 19th, one on 17 March 20th, in the amounts of 200,000, and $150,000.

18 They're signed by you, correct?

19 A Yes.

20 Q Where did this money come from to re-- to give to 21 Mr. Minton?

22 A Well, there have been two things that have 23 happened. One is that 300,000 has come in from Operation 24 Clambake and the other is that anonymous moneys have come in 25 from people whose name -- who I don't know who they are. So 34 1 yelled have to have -- I would have to look to remember 2 which was which. But that's -- that's basically what 3 happened.

4 Q You're claiming the rest of this money came from 5 what you call Operation Clambake?

6 MR. MERRETT: I'm going to object to the 7 argumentative tone of the question.

8 PLF'S COUNSEL: And object to repetitive.

9 MR. MOXON: Let me rephrase the question.

10 MR. MERRETT: I mean, I think it's 11 appropriate to ask if she's claiming.

12 MR. MOXON: Let me.

13 THE COURT: Reframe -- reframe the question.

14 BY MR. MOXON:

15 Q Are you saying, Ms. Brooks -- I'm not quite sure I 16 understand what you're saying -- 17 Are you saying that $300,000 went to Mr. Minton 18 from Operation Clambake?

19 A No.

20 Q How much went to Mr. Minton from money you got 21 from Operation Clambake?

22 A Well, approximately that much went to him after I 23 got it from operation clambake. Yes.

24 Q How much did Operation Clambake give to LMT?

25 A Approximately $300,000.

35 1 Q And you paid all of that out to Mr. Minton.

2 A Most of it.

3 Q You paid out all of the money that you got from 4 the anonymous source to Mr. Minton also?

5 A No.

6 Q How much of that you did keep?

7 A I don't remember.

8 Q How much did you get from this anonymous source?

9 A Approximately 500,000.

10 Q You got 300,000 from clambake and 500,000 from the 11 anonymous source?

12 A I believe there were more than one source.

13 Q But you got a total of 500,000 from anonymous 14 sources?

15 A Yes.

16 Q Was that all in one transfer?

17 A I don't recall that it was. I'm not sure though.

18 Q How many transfers were there?

19 A I don't remember really. There may have been two 20 or three, but I'm not sure.

21 Q Was the transfer into your Bank of America 22 account?

23 A Yes.

24 Q What's the account number of the Bank of America 25 account.

36 1 A I don't believe I'm required to answer that.

2 MR. MERRETT: I'll object to that.

3 THE COURT: Overruled.

4 MR. MERRETT: Judge Scientology has a history 5 of engaging in bank fraud with the use of this information 6 they've done it to this witness they've done it to 7 Mr. Minton they've taken bank numbers they by subterfuge 8 obtain bank records they've emptied people's bank ctss 9 they've disoanl money this is an inappropriate subject for 10 discovery.

11 THE COURT: Overruled if that occurs there's 12 other remedies you can use.

13 Answer the question, please.

14 A I don't know.

15 BY MR. MOXON:

16 Q Can you provide that to me this afternoon?

17 A No.

18 Q Send a fax to my office with that information this 19 evening?

20 A I don't believe so.

21 Q Why not?

22 A I don't believe I should answer that question.

23 Q Are you refusing to answer?

24 A I think I should, yes, I think I'd better.

25 MR. MERRETT: Actually she's just answered 37 1 it. You've asked her to do something outside of the 2 deposition. She's not going to do it. If you have other 3 questions during the deposition we should hear them.

4 BY MR. MOXON:

5 Q Do you have any checks with this Bank of America 6 account with you?

7 A No, I don't.

8 Q Or any information on this account?

9 A No, I don't.

10 Q How many accounts do you have at Bank of America?

11 A One.

12 Q How many accounts do you have at nations bank?

13 A None.

14 Q None? How many did you have there?

15 A One. Nations bank became Bank of America.

16 Q Is this the same bank the two amounts were given 17 to Mr. Minton from Exhibit 11, nations bank checks of 18 March 20th and March 19th and the Bank of America transfer 19 of April 11th?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Who is Operation Clambake?

22 A It's a Web site.

23 Q Do you know who controls the Web site?

24 A A man named andrea heldo lund.

25 Q Was it Mr. Lund that transferred the $300,000?

38 1 A I'm not really sure. I just know that it came 2 from Operation Clambake.

3 Q Was it in a check or a wire transfer?

4 PLF'S COUNSEL: Asked and answered.

5 THE COURT: Overruled.

6 A I believe it was a check.

7 BY MR. MOXON:

8 Q What did the check say?

9 A What do you mean?

10 Q Did the check say "Operation Clambake on it" as 11 the name -- 12 A I believe so, yeah.

13 Q -- of the p? Is that correct?

14 A {pay'?

15 A Yiebility, yeah. As I recall {payee}.

16 Q Who signed the check?

17 A I'm not sure.

18 Q Did you look?

19 A I'm not.

20 THE COURT: Gurge to have to speak up ma'am.

21 A I didn't say anything.

22 THE COURT: I can hardly hear you.

23 A Okay. I didn't say anything.

24 THE COURT: Well, I -- 25 A I didn't -- 39 1 MR. MOXON: {}.

2 BY MR. MOXON:

3 Q Was it -- is this an unusual event to get a 4 $300,000 check into your corporation?

5 A Yes, it is.

6 Q You had no interest or concern as to who provided 7 $300,000 to your corporation?

8 A I had reason to understand that it should be kept 9 confidential.

10 Q But you had no interest to know who it was as 11 the -- 12 A I didn't.

13 Q Were you the chief financial officer and the chief 14 operating officer of the corporation at the time that you 15 received this money?

16 A Yes, I was.

17 Q Was this income?

18 A Yes.

19 Q It's income to the corporation?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Do you know anyone associated with this Operation 22 Clambake other than andress as heltal lund?

23 A I believe he runs it.

24 Q Do you know anyone else associated with it that -- 25 A You know, I don't really know much about it at 40 1 all.

2 Q Did you ask Mr. Minton where this money came from?

3 A No.

4 Q Did you ask Mr. Minton why -- 5 A Mr. Minton didn't know anything about this. This 6 didn't have anything to do with him.

7 Q The Operation Clambake check?

8 A Yeah.

9 Q Who arranged for that?

10 A I was contacted by somebody who said that a 11 donation was coming.

12 Q Who were you contacted by?

13 A A person.

14 Q Who?

15 A Who didn't say who they were.

16 Q Did you know who it was?

17 A No.

18 Q Did you ask who they were?

19 A I didn't.

20 PLF'S COUNSEL: Can I interrupt just for a 21 second judge?

22 THE COURT: You may.

23 PLF'S COUNSEL: I just wanted to make sure, 24 do you realize that that counterclaim is still subject to a 25 motion to dismiss that hasn't been ruled upon?

41 1 THE COURT: I do.

2 PLF'S COUNSEL: Okay.

3 BY MR. MOXON:

4 Q Did you make any record of your phone call with 5 the anonymous person who -- 6 A No, I didn't.

7 Q -- told you a check was coming.

8 A No, I didn't.

9 Q -- from Operation Clambake? No?

10 A No, I didn't.

11 Q Do you know if you have any corporate 12 responsibility to make a record of the source of the 13 corporation's funding?

14 A Yes.

15 Q What is that responsibility?

16 A I make a record of it.

17 Q Where is the record?

18 A In our bank statements.

19 Q Your bank statement is the only record of this 20 $300,000 check?

21 A Yes.

22 Q What record was made of the $500,000 anonymous 23 donation?

24 A There was a deposit made.

25 Q How do you know it wasn't drug money or some 42 1 illegal money?

2 MR. MERRETT: Scientology money, for example.

3 A I'm sure it wasn't.

4 BY MR. MOXON:

5 Q How do you know?

6 A And people who are dealing in drugz wouldn't be 7 making donations to the LMT wrrdz.

8 Q Tell me -- 9 A The people who are making donations to the LMT 10 wrrdz are people whose families have been destroyed by 11 Scientology or whose children have committed suicide by 12 Scientology -- because of Scientology or some other treajd 13 has happened to them and they are hoping that the same thing 14 won't happen to anyone else.

15 Q So you have some idea who made this anonymous 16 donation?

17 A No. I just know the type of people who are 18 concerned to make sure that the Lisa McPherson Trust 19 continues.

20 Q 21 Q Did you ask Mr. Minton who had made these 22 investments in the trust?

23 A Yes.

24 Q What did he tell you?

25 A He said that they had asked to remain anonymous 43 1 and they he had given him his word.

2 Q Who owns this company, the Lisa McPherson trust?

3 A I do.

4 Q Is it a stock corporation?

5 A Yes.

6 Q How many shares of stock are there?

7 A Hundred.

8 Q 1700?

9 A Yes.

10 Q You own them all?

11 A I do.

12 Q Did you buy them?

13 A Yes.

14 Q How much did you pay for them.

15 A A dollar.

16 MR. MERRETT: I'm going to object.

17 BY MR. MOXON:

18 Q One dollars?

19 MR. MERRETT: The value of the corporation -- 20 I mean, what are we trying here? He's not a stockholder.

21 THE COURT: Are you making an objection.

22 MR. MERRETT: The objection is that it's 23 beyond the scope of the court's order and it's totally 24 irrelevant to any issue here.

25 THE COURT: Overruled. Go ahead.

44 1 BY MR. MOXON:

2 Q Who did you buy the stock from for $1?

3 A From Bob Minton.

4 Q So it was essentially a gift to you.

5 A Yes.

6 Q What was the point of the $1?

7 A I thought that I should pay him something for it.

8 Q He offered to give you the entirety of the 9 corporation?

10 A Yes.

11 Q When was that?

12 A I believe it was in March of 2000.

13 Q Are are there any board minutes or documents that 14 document this transfer of the ownership of the company to 15 you?

16 A Yes.

17 Q What are they?

18 A There's a board minute.

19 Q Who were the directors at that time?

20 A There were a number of directors.

21 Q Who were the directors at that time?

22 A Jesse Prince, Ed loddic, Wright keler {}.

23 Q Who was present at the board meeting?

24 A Just myself and Bob Minton.

25 Q Who signed the board minutes?

45 1 A Well, actually Jesse Prince was there also. I 2 believe -- I believe Bob Minton and I did. Possibly Jesse 3 Prince.

4 Q Now, you didn't produce that document, but that 5 would seem seem to me {}to be a financial record regarding 6 the payment to any person identified as a witness in this 7 case since you are identified as a witness in these various 8 orders.

9 A It wasn't a payment to me.

10 Q Well, a hundred -- the entirety of.

11 MR. MERRETT: Don't argue with the witness.

12 MR. MOXON: Okay. I won't argue. But 13 Mr. Mert, could you please produce that document so I don't 14 have to file a motion.

15 MR. MERRETT: I don't believe that the 16 document is responsive.

17 MR. MOXON: Well, I'll go on.

18 BY MR. MOXON:

19 Q Does LMT have any other bank accounts other than 20 the nations bank account which turned into a Bank of America 21 account?

22 A No.

23 Q Did it ever?

24 A No.

25 Q Are there any other accounts that you utilized for 46 1 the payment of any expenses of the corporation?

2 A No.

3 Q What was Mr. Minton's position in the corporation 4 at the time of this transfer of funds to you?

5 A Chairman of the board.

6 Q Is he still the chairman of the board?

7 A Yes.

8 Q He's always been the chairman of the board, 9 correct?

10 A Yes.

11 Q Have there been any other transfers of funds to 12 Mr. Minton from the LMT other than what's set forth in 13 Exhibit 11?

14 A No.

15 Q Are there any other investors in LMT other than 16 you and Mr. Minton?

17 A There are no investors into the LMT.

18 Q Does anyone other than you own any part of LMT?

19 A No.

20 Q So anything that comes into LMT in the future is 21 your property?

22 MR. MERRETT: I'm going to object. Calling 23 for a legal conclusion. If counsel wants to court prevail 24 {}he needs to do it by other means.

25 THE COURT: Overruled.

47 1 Answer the question, please.

2 MR. MERRETT: If you understand what the 3 relationship is between you and the corporation and the 4 ownership of corporate assets.

5 A What's the question again?

6 BY MR. MOXON:

7 Q Is anything, any funds that come into LMT belong 8 to you {does anything}.

9 A Yes.

10 Q Does LMT have any debts?

11 A Yes.

12 Q What are the -- what are the -- give me a rough 13 approximation of the amount of the debts.

14 A I would say about $250,000 to Mr. Minton.

15 Q What's that based on? A loan from Mr. Minton?

16 A Yes.

17 I'm sorry. About 150,000.

18 Q How do you know how much the amount that 19 Mr. Minton is owed?

20 A Because he's loaned me that -- he's loaned me 21 about 800,000 and I've paid him back about 650,000.

22 Q Has all the money that Mr. Minton given to LMT a 23 loan {is all}?

24 A Yes. Since I've taken it over.

25 Q Is the money that he put into the corporation 48 1 prior to you taking it over a loan?

2 A Prior to that, he owned it.

3 Q Can you answer my question?

4 Is the money that he gave to the corporation prior 5 to time you took it over a loan {}?

6 A No.

7 Q So the corporation doesn't owe him any money for 8 the investment he made prior to that time?

9 A Right.

10 Q The entirety -- correct me if I'm wrong -- the 11 entirety of your calculations as to how much money you owe 12 Mr. Minton will be based on your recollection of what your 13 agreement is with Mr. Minton and how much you've paid him?

14 A Excuse me?

15 Q Is the entirety of any documentation or agreement 16 with respect to how much money the corporation owes 17 Mr. Minton based upon your recollection?

18 A No.

19 Q What else is it based on?

20 A Based upon my financial records of how much he's 21 loaned us and how much we've paid him back.

22 Q Are there any other financial records than what 23 you've produced here today?

24 A No.

25 Q Did Mr. Mint buy a house for you.

49 1 MR. MERRETT: I'm going to object. That's 2 beyond the scope. This is corporate representative 3 deposition, a her personal deposition for this kind of abuse 4 is set a couple weeks down the road.

5 MR. MOXON: Let me rephrase the question so 6 it can handle the objection, I hope.

7 BY MR. MOXON:

8 Q Did the chairman of the board of the Lisa 9 McPherson Trust give the presidential of the board a house?

10 A No.

11 Q {president}.

12 Q Did he provide any down payment used to purchase a 13 house?

14 A No.

15 Q Prior to your work at the LMT you were an 16 employee, correct?

17 A Excuse me?

18 Q {you weren't}.

19 Q You were not employed prior to the time you 20 started working at LMT, is that right?

21 A No. That's not correct.

22 Q When did you start working at LMT?

23 A January, 2000.

24 Q In the year 1999, were you employed.

25 MR. MERRETT: I'm going to object. It's 50 1 beyond the scope. This is corporate representative 2 deposition its this is not her personal deposition.

3 THE COURT: Overruled.

4 MR. MERRETT: I wonder if we could get some 5 guidance if there are any limits to what information about 6 her personally is going to be -- 7 THE COURT: He asks the question you make the 8 objections I rule.

9 Proceed.

10 A Okay. Well, your Honor if I could just clarify 11 something for myself then, when he begins to question me 12 personally and no longer is questioning the corporate 13 representative of the LMT then I would need to confer with 14 my counsel in a different manner than I had prior to 15 arriving at this deposition.

16 THE COURT: If he asks a question you feel 17 you need to confer with your counsel you have that right.

18 A Okay. I do feel that I need to right now.

19 THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead.

20 A I'd like to step outside, please.

21 (A recess was taken.)

22 BY MR. MOXON:

23 Q The question Ms. Brooks is were you employed in 24 1999?

25 A I was the corporate representative of the LMT. I 51 1 don't have that information.

2 Q {as the corporate representative fix fix.

3 Q Let me ask you again. Were you employed in 1999?

4 MR. MERRETT: Asked and answered.

5 THE COURT: Is that your answer ma'am.

6 A Yes, it is.

7 THE COURT: I instruct you to answer the 8 question, please.

9 MR. MERRETT: Judge, I have to interpose 10 another objection. Unless the concept of a corporate 11 representative deposition is entirely meaningless then 12 personal questions about the witnesses' life are clearly 13 outside the scope and need to be deferred until the 14 witnesses' own deposition.

15 THE COURT: Overruled. I instruct the 16 witness to answer the question and we'll certify it.

17 MR. MERRETT: We'll certify it.

18 THE COURT: Are you instructingler not to 19 answer the question?

20 MR. MERRETT: Yes. Okay.

21 MR. MOXON: Okay.

22 BY MR. MOXON:

23 Q Shortly after you came to work at the Lisa 24 McPherson Trust, Inc., you purchased a house in belare, is 25 that correct?

52 1 A That's incorrect.

2 Q When did you purchase the house in Belleaire?

3 A In November of 1999.

4 Q When did you start to work at LMT?

5 A In 2000 -- in January of 2000.

6 Q Was the money for the down payment of the house 7 provided to you by plaintiff's counsel?

8 PLF'S COUNSEL: Me.

9 BY MR. MOXON:

10 Q Mr. Dandar?

11 A No.

12 PLF'S COUNSEL: You pointed to mert.

13 BY MR. MOXON:

14 Q Was it provided {}to you by Mr. Minton?

15 A No.

16 Q Do you have a payroll company that gives checks to 17 employees?

18 A Yes.

19 Q What's the name of the company?

20 A I don't remember. I could find out for you, but I 21 don't remember as I sit here.

22 Q Where is the company? Where are they located?

23 A In Clearwater.

24 Q Do you know the name of any of the people that you 25 work for from {}the payroll company?

53 1 A Kelly is the name of the woman that I speak to.

2 Q Kelly. What's Kelly's last name?

3 A I don't remember. I could find out but I don't 4 remember.

5 Q Does the payroll company write checks to 6 employees?

7 A Yes.

8 Q Are the checks that the payroll company writes to 9 employees the checks that you give them out of your own 10 account?

11 A Yes.

12 Not those.

13 Those.

14 PLF'S COUNSEL: Could we have an Exhibit 15 Number, please.

16 BY MR. MOXON:

17 Q Exhibit Number 6 is an example of payroll checks?

18 A Yes.

19 Q You may recall prior testimony eubd cating that 20 Jesse Prince is paid $5,000 a month, is that right?

21 A Yes.

22 Q Is that his salary?

23 A Yes.

24 Q These checks that are issued are for $3,552 eight 25 cents. Is that his {}after tax?

54 1 A Yes.

2 Q Does Mr. Prince receive any other money from the 3 corporation other than these checks that are set forth in 4 Exhibit 5?

5 A Well, there's these checks he's received, this was 6 a reimbursement check and this was a -- 7 Q Exhibit 8.

8 A Yes.

9 Q So in Exhibit 5 and Exhibit 8 are the entirety of 10 the checks paid to Jesse Prince?

11 A Yes.

12 Q He's received no other money from the corporation?

13 A Correct.

14 Q Is there any correspondence or documentation with 15 your payroll company? Any records of any kind?

16 A Well, the payroll records that they send with 17 payroll every month.

18 Q Is there any -- any documentation, summary of 19 amounts given to them and amounts paid to the employees?

20 A That's what I've turned over to you.

21 Q No. Is there -- 22 A That's the payroll records there.

23 PLF'S COUNSEL: Examine Exhibit Number, 24 please.

25 MR. MOXON: Mr. Mr. Mert has patented to 55 1 Exhibit Number 9. Is Exhibit Number 9 a print off from the 2 payroll company?

3 A Yes.

4 Q What are the deletions?

5 A People who are not witnesses in this case.

6 Q Is there a cover letter from the roll company that 7 indicates what this is?

8 A No.

9 Q There's no other documentation other than this 10 print-off?

11 A No. There's a orange piece of paper on top.

12 Q You've just been using the payroll company since 13 January of this year?

14 A No. We used them since we opened. But I don't -- 15 I mean, this is what I -- 16 Q Exhibit Number 9 only has -- starting on 17 January 31st. Do you have other records?

18 A Those are the only records I had at the office.

19 Q Do you have other -- 20 A I mean, I think the payroll company -- I could 21 probably get earlier ones from them, but this is all I had 22 at the office.

23 Q Did you destroy the other records from the payroll 24 company for the year 2000?

25 A Well, we had an employee working for us earlier 56 1 who was dealing with it and I believe that those records 2 were only kept at the payroll company at that time.

3 Q Who's that employee?

4 A That was Bob Peter son.

5 Q Bob Peter son may have other records?

6 A No. No. No. He wouldn't have records himself 7 but I believe that's how he was dealing with it.

8 Q How do you figure out your taxes how do you keep 9 tax records if you don't have records in the corporation 10 from last year?

11 A Well, I'm going to have to get them from the 12 payroll company I guess, but I don't have them right now.

13 Q Have you done your taxes for the year 2000?

14 A Our taxes are up to date, yeah.

15 Q So you filed a tax return for the year 2000?

16 A Yes.

17 Q Have you -- 18 A So they would have already had them then.

19 Q Have you submitted W2s and W 4s for your 20 employees?

21 A Yes.

22 MR. MOXON: Okay. Mr. Mert I believe those 23 would be responsive records to -- we can talk more about 24 what's not been produced here but it's to produce all 25 financial records regarding the payment to any person.

57 1 BY MR. MOXON:

2 Q Are there any other records that we haven't 3 discussed here today which reference any funds given to any 4 employee?

5 A No.

6 Q Now, there is a loan you gave to gray ward, 7 correct?

8 A Yes. {gradey}.

9 Q How much was that loan?

10 A If you'd let me -- well, actually -- I guess it's 11 on this one.

12 $12,200.

13 Q That was the loan from the corporation?

14 A Yes.

15 Q Are there any other -- are there any records of 16 that loan other than the existence of the check which is in 17 Exhibit 8?

18 A I don't believe so.

19 Q Did you actually conduct a search for all records 20 that reflect any payments of any kind -- 21 A Yes.

22 Q -- to all of these individuals yourself, 23 Mr. Minton, Mr. Ward?

24 A Yes, I did. That's how I got this together.

25 Q There's no production here by the way for 58 1 Mr. Bunkerer. Why didn't you produce any -- 2 A Yes, there is. {mr. Bunker.

3 MR. MERRETT: Keep up with the group. {check 4 }.

5 BY MR. MOXON:

6 Q Is Mr. Bunker an employee?

7 A Yes.

8 Q Does LMT have any trust fund accounts?

9 A No.

10 Q Now part of the document production was also for 11 tapes.

12 A Yes. They should be here by now. I'm sorry. I 13 don't know why it hasn't arrived.

14 Q Was a search conducted for tape recordings 15 responsive to the court's orders?

16 A Yes.

17 Q Who did that search?

18 A I did.

19 Q Where did you search?

20 A I searched in the Lisa McPherson Trust offices.

21 Q Did you look for digital recordings?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Did you look in computers?

24 A Yes.

25 Q Are there any recordings that have been made by 59 1 any employee of the Lisa McPherson Trust that are not 2 located at your offices?

3 A Not that I know of.

4 Q Mr. Bunker, for example is hired as your 5 videographer, correct?

6 A Yes.

7 Q Does he have any recordings at his home?

8 A I don't know.

9 Q Did you ask him?

10 A What the LMT owns is at our office.

11 Q Did you ask Mr. Bunker if he had any tapes or any 12 digital recordings at home?

13 A Yes. I asked him if he had anything owned by the 14 Lisa McPherson Trust and he said, no.

15 Q That wasn't quite my question. Did you ask 16 Mr. Bunker if he had any videos or tape recordings at his 17 home?

18 A No. What I asked him was what I was ordered to 19 produce which was any video or any kind of recordings under 20 the -- hang on -- in the possession, custody or control of 21 Lisa McPherson Trust, Inc. and the answer was no.

22 Q Did Mr. Bunker take any videos or digital 23 recordings home with him?

24 A I don't know.

25 Q Did you ask him if he took any out of the 60 1 premises?

2 A Yes. I asked him. I'll say it again. I asked 3 him if he had taken any videos in the possession, custody or 4 control of the Lisa McPherson Trust and he said, no. And 5 that's what I'm required to produce for the deposition.

6 Q That's the way you asked him the question, just 7 like that?

8 A Yes. In fact, I read this to him.

9 Q You didn't ask him if he had any videos that he 10 took; if he took any of the videos home with him.

11 A He said he has videotape that he -- that is his.

12 Q He's worked as a -- an employee of the Lisa 13 McPherson Trust for how long?

14 A For a little over a year and a half. But his 15 video that he takes is not owned by the Lisa McPherson 16 Trust.

17 Q Who's it owned by?

18 A By Mark Bunker.

19 Q This is the -- the tape taken by what you call the 20 minton camp if your newsletter?

21 A We don't call it that. You call it that. I've 22 never called it that.

23 Q Okay. I have a copy of the newsletter you put out 24 that has a -- a glossary and it defines the term minon the 25 camp, the professional {}quality digital camcoder used 61 1 exclusivity for the production of LMT videos.

2 A Okay. {cam}.

3 Q Okay.

4 A But I don't use that word I'm sure it's defining 5 what somebody else said. I don't use the word.

6 Q Okay. Are you saying that all of the videos that 7 have been taken by Mark Bunker while he's an employee of LMT 8 don't belong to LMT but they belong to Mark Bunker?

9 A No.

10 Q How do you know which ones belong to him and which 11 ones belong to you?

12 A What goes on the Web site is property of the LMT.

13 Q And if it doesn't go on the Web site it's not 14 property of the LMT?

15 A That's right.

16 Q Who makes that decision what goes on the Web site?

17 A I do.

18 Q So the videos that Mr. -- 19 A Well, in -- in cooperation with Mark Bunker.

20 Q So the videos that Mr. Bunker's taken, which you 21 haven't decided to put on the Web site, you consider not to 22 be LMT property?

23 A They aren't.

24 Q That's your decision.

25 A That's our agreement.

62 1 Q So you're not producing anything that you didn't 2 decide to put on your public Web site that was a vidtaken by 3 Mr. Bunker, is that correct?

4 A What I'm producing for you is everything that's in 5 the possession, custody or control of the Lisa McPherson 6 Trust.

7 Q Could you read back the question, please.

8 THE REPORTER: {READ BACK.

9 A Yes. That's correct.

10 BY MR. MOXON:

11 Q Who paid for Mr. Bunker's video equipment?

12 A Bob Minton. Before the LMT existed.

13 Q Who pays for his supplies over the last year?

14 Who's paid for his supplies, his tapes, his disks that he 15 uses in this -- 16 A Sometimes Mark pace for them and sometimes the LMT 17 does.

18 Q {pays above fix}.

19 Q Did you conduct any search for documents to 20 produce in response to the court's orders?

21 A Yes.

22 Q Did you find any documents to produce?

23 A Other than what I've turned over you mean?

24 Q Yes.

25 A No nothing other than what I've turned over.

63 1 Q So you have no statements of any -- no written 2 statements by any of the witnesses in this case.

3 A No.

4 Q Why not?

5 MR. MERRETT: I'm going to object. That's a 6 ridiculous question.

7 THE COURT: Just make the objection. Don't 8 characterize it.

9 MR. MERRETT: It's argumentative.

10 THE COURT: Overruled.

11 A Why not? I don't have any reason to have any 12 statements by witnesses. I'm not involved in this case.

13 BY MR. MOXON:

14 Q Well, as an example on this -- this flier,.

15 PLF'S COUNSEL: Would you identify the flier 16 and have it marked as an exhibit, please if you're going to 17 refer to it.

18 BY MR. MOXON:

19 Q As an example -- I'd like to refresh the 20 witnesses's recollection before I do that.

21 THE COURT: Is it not marked? Let's get it 22 marked since we're going to be referring to it.

23 (PARTY EXHIBIT Exhibit 24 Number Number marked for identification.)

25 64 1 BY MR. MOXON:

2 MR. MOXON: Mark as Exhibit 12 a flier that 3 was -- 4 THE WITNESS: Mm-hmm.

5 MR. MOXON: -- I believe produced by your 6 company.

7 A It was but it was quite sometime ego. We don't 8 have any left.

9 BY MR. MOXON:

10 Q Okay. Now, in this flier, this publication, there 11 is a -- looks like an article written by you.

12 A Yes.

13 Q Scientology's contempt. And it talks and Lisa 14 McPherson and other matters allegedly relatinging to 15 Scientology {}.

16 A 87 it's on our Web site, I believe.

17 Q So you still have possession of it. Why didn't 18 you produce that as an example of a statement?

19 A I don't -- I wasn't aware that I was required to 20 download documents from a Web site for this. Is that part 21 of this?

22 Q Every statement by every person -- 23 A But I don't -- I -- you know, it's -- it's on the 24 Internet.

25 Q Okay. So you're saying -- 65 1 A I don't have it hard copy.

2 Q Let me -- let me see if I understand what you're 3 saying then.

4 You're saying that you have statements that would 5 be responsive to the orders, the court's orders, but the 6 only statements that you have are ones that are on the 7 Internet and therefore you didn't produce them?

8 A Well, you know, there have been statements made by 9 people on ARS as you noted in your letter but you know, when 10 I read your letter you were talking about Internet stuff and 11 you know, unless I've downloaded and printed out an ARS post 12 I didn't consider that that was something that I was 13 required to produce in deposition. I mean,.

14 Q I just want to clarify -- 15 A I'm just.

16 Q I'm just trying to find out -- 17 A -- explaining to you.

18 Q I'm not asking you for joustcation now I just want 19 to make sure I understand. You know you have some 20 statements that have been written by you, been written by 21 Mr. Prince, been written by Mr. Minton, that concern 22 Scientology or Lisa McPherson or this case that are -- that 23 are on your Web site, correct?

24 A Let me just -- excuse me just a second but let me 25 just clarify -- 66 1 Q We don't need to clarify the.

2 MR. MERRETT: You know what she's the one who 3 decides if she needs clarification.

4 PLF'S COUNSEL: Hey -- 5 A I mean, what I understood you to be saying here.

6 PLF'S COUNSEL: What are you referring to for 7 the record.

8 THE WITNESS: Well, hang on just a second.

9 BY MR. MOXON:

10 Q You're referring to a letter that I wrote to 11 Mr. Mert last week?

12 A Where you said -- hang on -- -- no. Not this one.

13 There's another -- 14 Q Let me just ask you a question. That's the best 15 way to do this.

16 As I understand what you're telling me is that 17 you're aware of the existence of statements made by you, 18 Mr. Prince, Mr. Minton, et cetera, that are on your Web site 19 that concern Scientology or concern this case or concern 20 Lisa McPherson Trust or concern Lisa McPherson, correct?

21 A There are statements on our Web site, but see I 22 mean -- 23 Q Okay. But you -- 24 A I don't -- I didn't consider ae say to be a 25 statement {}. I mean, maybe I didn't understand your 67 1 wording but it seemed to me that you were asking for -- hang 2 on { es say}.

3 Statements having to do with this case. And there 4 have been things on ars that have been written about it, but 5 I don't even follow ars ars very much {}.

6 Q Ms. Brooks bear with me. If you can just do that.

7 You're aware of statements written by you, by prince, by 8 mint concerning this case, concerning Lisa McPherson, 9 correct?

10 A Well -- 11 THE COURT: Well, since we're talking about 12 statements let's clarify what we're talking about, written 13 statements -- 14 MR. MOXON: Anything in writing.

15 THE COURT: Talking about statements on the 16 Web site? So that we can be specific. 'Cause apparently 17 she does not consider statements on the Web site as 18 statements as required under that order.

19 MR. MOXON: Yeah.

20 THE COURT: Is that correct ma'am.

21 THE WITNESS: That's correct your Honor. I 22 didn't consider that that would be responsive to this.

23 BY MR. MOXON:

24 Q Okay.

25 A What I searched was my files.

68 1 Q And you searched all of your files?

2 A Yes. I did a very thorough search.

3 Q How many file cabinets does LMT have?

4 A Oh, gosh.

5 THE COURT: Well, I think we ought to get on 6 the record her reasons for not believing that statements 7 included statements on the Web site.

8 MR. MOXON: Okay.

9 THE COURT: So why don't you go ahead and 10 tell us why you did not consider statements on the Web site 11 as included in the order.

12 A My understanding of the order was written 13 statements.

14 BY MR. MOXON:

15 Q All right.

16 A And -- and not only that, but I wasn't including 17 an essay written by me about autoing to be {}responsive to 18 that order. {auditing} I understood that order to be asking 19 for statements by witnesses having to do with this case.

20 Q Okay.

21 A In other words, you know -- 22 Q Okay.

23 A That's what I understood it to mean.

24 Q So let me clarify then. So if something is not in 25 a hard copy form you didn't consider it to be responsive?

69 1 A Correct.

2 Q So if it's in a computer document, then it's not 3 responsive, right?

4 A Well, if it's in a computer in the LMT, then I 5 would consider that something that I needed to provide.

6 However our Web site is a public Internet site.

7 Q Tats -- 8 A {}that's.

9 A So I mean -- 10 Q {}.

11 Q I understand what you're saying.

12 So you searched through all of your hard copy 13 files?

14 A Yes.

15 Q How many file cabinets do you have at LMT?

16 A Maybe -- actual cabinets probably about eight.

17 Q And how many boxes of files do you have; boxes of 18 documents?

19 A Probably around maybe 50.

20 Q What did you do with the rest of the file cabinets 21 and boxes that were identified in the last deposition of 22 LMT?

23 MR. MERRETT: I'm going to object as assuming 24 facts not in evidence, let me see a transcript -- 25 MR. MOXON: Let me finish my question 70 1 Mr. Mert.

2 THE COURT: Well, you recall being asked 3 about other boxes in a prior deposition.

4 THE WITNESS: I don't.

5 BY MR. MOXON:

6 Q Have other -- have other boxes of documents been 7 shredded or taken off the site?

8 A No.

9 Q You've shredded no boxes of documents or files of 10 LMT.

11 A Oh, well -- 12 Q Since the April, 2000 deposition?

13 A We regularly get rid of documents that we no 14 longer need.

15 Q How many boxes of documents have you gotten rid of 16 that you thought you no longer needed?

17 A Probably all together it would add up to about a 18 box.

19 Q One box.

20 A I mean, we do it every day.

21 Q Okay. So -- so from April of 2000 to now you've 22 gotten rid of about a box of documents?

23 A Probably.

24 Q All right.

25 A But that's not boments that were responsive to 71 1 this. That's just daily {documents} -- 2 Q Yeah.

3 A -- you know things that, you know, work that 4 we're -- you know, drafts of things or -- 5 Q Okay.

6 A Stuff like that.

7 Q Did you look through these boxes of documents to 8 find any written statements by you, prince, or minton?

9 A Yes.

10 Q You looked through all 50 boxes?

11 A No, no. I haven't looked through 50 boxes because 12 I know in most of those boxes there is nothing written by 13 any of us and I already know that.

14 Q How many boxes did you -- 15 A But the one -- but where there was a possibility 16 that there might be something written by any of us, I did 17 look.

18 Q Yes. I just want to make it very clear then.

19 Correct me if I'm wrong: Your testimony is that there's not 20 a single piece of paper in the LMT building which is a 21 statement by you or minton or prince concerning Scientology, 22 concerning any issue in this case or concerning Lisa 23 McPherson, correct?

24 A That's correct. The only place that anything 25 exists like that are in John merit's files. Which are his 72 1 files.

2 Q So you gave some files to Mr. Mert?

3 A Well, he -- {}he is in charge of all of our legal 4 files and they have -- I believe they probably have -- well 5 to be honest I don't know if they do or not. I asked 6 Mr. Mert if there was anything in his files responsive and 7 he said no other than -- you know, said anything in my files 8 is attorney work product or attorney-client privilege.

9 Q So there might be some documents but you consider 10 them to be privileged?

11 A Well, what he told me is that they were legal 12 documents and that wasn't something that I needed to be 13 concerned about in this document production.

14 Q I see. You've written affidavits and statements 15 about Scientology that you've got in your files, don't you?

16 A Again, I believe, Mr. Dandar has copies of those 17 and it may be that John mert has them too.

18 Q You have them too, right?

19 A No, I don't.

20 Q Now, Mr. Minton -- when he appeared as the LMT 21 representative, said you had 120 boxes of files.

22 MR. MERRETT: Can we actually get that read 23 and attached and made an exhibit? Or -- 24 PLF'S COUNSEL:

25 MR. MOXON: It's already in the record in 73 1 this case.

2 MR. MERRETT: Let's make it an exhibit to 3 this deposition.

4 MR. MOXON: I'll be happy to read it to you 5 and I'll show it to you. Question how many boxes are -- 6 THE COURT: What are you reading from.

7 MR. MOXON: It's Mr. Mint's deposition as the 8 LMT representative.

9 THE COURT: Has it been filed?

10 MR. MOXON: Yes, sir.

11 THE COURT: Pardon.

12 MR. MOXON: I believe so. I know this entire 13 deposition's been filed in this case.

14 THE COURT: Well, it's a matter of record.

15 MR. MOXON: Okay. It's dated May 18th 2000.

16 "Question: How many boxes of hard copy files do 17 you have?

18 "Answer: 120. Question assessment how many file 19 cabinets are there?

20 "Answer: Eight.

21 A Okay.

22 Q What happened to the other 70 boxes of files?

23 A I -- my estimate may have been wrong. You know, 24 we have a lot of boxes upstairs. But like I said, the part 25 that's important about what I said is that I know for sure 74 1 that the majority of those boxes has nothing in it by any of 2 us.

3 Q The majority?

4 A I mean, there are -- there's only -- well, in 5 fact, I wouldn't say that any of the boxes would have 6 anything written by any of us. If there was anything 7 written by us it would be in a file cabinet.

8 Q Okay. And you have no e-mails or any 9 communications, letters or correspondence of any kind in the 10 entirety of your office that you've collected over the last 11 year and a half that address the issue of Scientology or 12 Lisa McPherson or the Lisa McPherson Trust, is that correct?

13 A Not that have anything to do with the Lisa 14 McPherson case.

15 Q That's not what I asked you.

16 Do you have any documents that are in any 17 computer, even, or any hard copy, or any -- well, let me -- 18 let's limit it to capture -- do you have any documents in 19 any computerized form in a word processor or an e-mail or 20 any other similar form, digital form, that you've written, 21 that concern in any fashion Scientology, Lisa McPherson 22 case, or Lisa McPherson?

23 A No.

24 Q So you've never -- have you ever written any 25 e-mails that concern Scientology or Lisa McPherson?

75 1 A Yes. But I don't keep my e-mails.

2 Q You shred them all.

3 A Yes.

4 Q Have you written any since April of 2000?

5 A Yes.

6 Q You shredded those also?

7 A Since April of 2000?

8 Q Right.

9 A I -- we have a policy of keeping our e-mail clean 10 on a weekly basis.

11 Q How about since May 15th of 2000? Shru have you 12 shredded any of your e-mails that concern Scientology or 13 Lisa McPherson or the Lisa McPherson case?

14 A Again.

15 MR. MERRETT: Do you mean e-mails that were 16 extant on that date or e-mails since then?

17 MR. MOXON: Created since then.

18 A Created since the day that I shredded? I'm not -- 19 I'm not -- 20 BY MR. MOXON:

21 Q Have any -- 22 A Let me say this again.

23 Q Let me ask -- 24 A Every week.

25 Q -- yeah.

76 1 A My e-mailids completely deleted.

2 Q Okay.

3 A In fact, usually when I'm in town it's deleted 4 more regularly even than that. So I don't keep it.

5 Q You have written statements -- you've written 6 something about Scientology periodically between now and 7 May 15th of 2000, correct?

8 A Yes. In private e-mail. But it's nothing that I 9 would share with you because it's with families who are 10 counting on me to maintain their confidentiality.

11 Q And you did that before May 15th 2000 too, right?

12 You had.

13 THE COURT: Mails concerning -- 14 A Yes, I did {}{e-mails}.

15 Q In fact, there are many things you've posted on 16 the Internet also correct between -- 17 A Posting on news group definitely.

18 Q Postings between January of 2000 and the present, 19 correct?

20 A Correct.

21 Q And so has Mr. Minton, correct?

22 A As I recall.

23 Q Did you search every computer in LMT to see if 24 there were any e-mails -- 25 A Yes. Very thoroughly.

77 1 Q -- which -- which -- let me finish my question -- 2 A Sorry.

3 Q -- before you answer it.

4 Did you search every computer in LMT to see if 5 there was a single e-mail by gradey ward, Theresa Summers, 6 you, minton, Jeff Jacobson, or Peter Alexander which 7 concerned Scientology or concerned Lisa McPherson?

8 A Yes. They thoroughly.

9 Q And you found none?

10 A There were none.

11 Q But you -- you will admit that there have been a 12 number of such communications created over the past year and 13 a half, correct?

14 A Yes.

15 Q But they've all been shredded, is that right?

16 A Yes. It's our policy with our e-mail to shred.

17 MR. MERRETT: Well, you need to clarify 18 e-mail is electrons you can't shred them I'm assumeug meen 19 delete it.

20 BY MR. MOXON:

21 Q Delete. Yes. I mean deleted.

22 You deleted them right?

23 A Yes.

24 Q Did you use the witness lists to conduct any 25 search for any records?

78 1 A Yes.

2 Q Which list did you use?

3 A Well -- 4 Q You use the list attached to the subpoena?

5 A Yes.

6 Q Did you go through the entirety of that list and 7 check to see if there were any communications -- 8 A Yes.

9 Q -- concerning any of these people?

10 A Yes.

11 Q When {those people fix}.

12 Q When did you do that?

13 A Well, it wasn't just for this deposition but over 14 the course of the last, I think, three weeks.

15 Q How long have you -- where did you do that 16 other -- 17 A In Clearwater.

18 Q You've been in Clearwater for the past three 19 weeks?

20 A No. Not on -- I mean, I've been in and out of 21 town which is why I say over the past three weeks those 22 searches have been conducted.

23 Q By you personally.

24 A By myself and by the staff -- 25 Q Who else -- 79 1 A -- overseen by me.

2 Q Who else conducted searches?

3 A Jesse Prince, trees smers, mark bunk, Jeff 4 Jacobson, ingrid wagner. Yeah.

5 Q So you had -- 6 A And myself.

7 Q You had your entire staff search all of LMT, all 8 the space, all the desks -- 9 A Yes.

10 Q -- everywhere and you couldn't find a single 11 written statement by a single LMT staff member that 12 concerned this case.

13 A Correct.

14 Q And you couldn't find a single statement of any of 15 those people concerning the issues in this case, correct?

16 A Correct.

17 Q You couldn't find a single statement of any of 18 them concerning Lisa McPherson, is that right?

19 A Yes. In our hard copy files that's correct.

20 Q And you searched all of your -- 21 A And in our computers, yes.

22 Q And you searched all of your computers and you 23 couldn't find a single thing that was written by a -- by any 24 of your staff concerning Lisa McPherson.

25 A Yes.

80 1 Q Okay. Does LMT maintain any accounting system?

2 A Yes.

3 Q What is it?

4 A It's called Quickbooks.

5 Q Quickbooks? That has references to payments made 6 to you, minton, ward, et cetera?

7 A Only these that I've -- I mean, that's how -- I 8 used it to find some of these things.

9 Q Okay. So you've got -- you've got some 10 documentation concerning the payments then that are in your 11 quicken or quick book system?

12 A Yes. What I've given you to here.

13 Q Why, didn't you produce that?

14 A Why didn't I produce what?

15 Q Why didn't you produce what's in your Quickbooks 16 program -- 17 A I did. That's what I'm saying. I used the 18 Quickbooks program to direct me to the things that I needed 19 to produce.

20 Q Right I understood what you said, but why didn't 21 you produce what's in the Quickbooks program as responsive 22 to the court's orders?

23 A Again I did. Every single payment to a witness 24 that is in the Quickbooks program is here today. That's 25 what I did.

81 1 Q Ms. Brooks you didn't print out anything from 2 quick books and produce it to me today, did you?

3 A A printout of Quickbooks itself, no.

4 Q You didn't print out anything out of Quickbooks 5 and produce it today, did you?

6 A No.

7 Q Do you have an accountant?

8 A Yes.

9 Q Who's your accountant?

10 A His name is dev ree.

11 Q His name is what?

12 A Dev ree.

13 Q Could you spell that?

14 A DEVRI, I think.

15 Q Is that his first name or last name?

16 A I believe that's his last name.

17 Q What's his first name?

18 A I can't remember but Mr. Mert knows.

19 Q Do you work with this fellow?

20 A Well, he does our taxes for us.

21 Q Mr. Deary.

22 A Yes.

23 Q Where's Mr. Devry located?

24 A In Jacksonville.

25 Q Does he have any of your records?

82 1 A Only a copy of our taxes.

2 Q He doesn't have any of your financial records?

3 A No.

4 Q Do you have any other accountant?

5 A No.

6 Q Have you paid Mr. Devry?

7 A Yes.

8 Q So you'd have his name in your office somewhere.

9 A Well, yes. And in fact Mr. Mert has his name in 10 his head right now if you want it. I just don't remember.

11 Q I don't think Mr. Mert will give it to me, though.

12 A He would if I asked him to.

13 Q Why don't you do so.

14 THE WITNESS: Can you remind me what the name 15 of our accountant.

16 MR. MERRETT: Devry dewan.

17 A Sorry. It's his first name.

18 MR. MOXON: D EWAN?

19 MR. MERRETT: Yes.

20 BY MR. MOXON:

21 Q Do you have any other accountants or bookkeepers?

22 A Well, Duncan pierce helps me with our books.

23 Q Duncan pierce?

24 A Yes.

25 Q How do you spell that?

83 1 A Dpun C-a-n P-i-e-r-c-e {}.

2 Q Where is he located?

3 A He's in new hamp shire.

4 Q Do you have an address or phone number?

5 A 60 3W 542-7349.

6 Q Do you have any other accountants or bookkeepers?

7 A No.

8 Q Does Mr. Pierce have any of your records?

9 A No.

10 Q Have you had any quounications with andresuz 11 heldor lund yourself?

12 A Yes.

13 Q {}have you had any communications about making 14 investments in your company?

15 A No.

16 Q Have you had any communications with him about 17 receiving any money from your company?

18 A No.

19 Q Has LMT provided any funds to ershrieka berta?

20 A No.

21 Q Paid any expenses for her?

22 A Ersleca}.

23 A I believe we covered the cost of her hotel.

24 Q How much was that?

25 A I can't remember. Actually -- maybe $500.

84 1 Q Has the chairman of the board of LMT given any 2 money to ersleca berta?

3 A Yes.

4 Q How much?

5 A I don't know.

6 Q How long?

7 A {}.

8 Q Approximately?

9 A I don't know. It's the subject of some other 10 legal issue and I don't really know what -- the details of 11 it.

12 Q When did he give money to Ms. Berta {}?

13 A I believe it's in the summer of 2000.

14 Q You have no idea how much it was.

15 A No.

16 Q Not even a remote estimate?

17 A No.

18 Q On September 25th, 2000 you had a fund raiser for 19 this Operation Clambake, correct?

20 A No.

21 Q According to your pamphlet you did.

22 A We had a fund raiser for Operation Clambake? Not 23 that I know of.

24 Q What does the resource center for freedom of mind 25 {what is the}.

85 1 A That is -- I believe that's Steve has son's 2 organization.

3 Q Have you provided any money to that organization?

4 A No.

5 Q Does LMT owe you any money?

6 A (Shakes head.).

7 Q Did you loan any money to LMT?

8 A Well, I have a couple of times but I believe I've 9 been -- I've paid myself back. I think it's allcovered in 10 the checks that I've turned in to you.

11 Q Has any money ever been given by L L to to witness 12 Peter Alexander?

13 A No.

14 Q None?

15 A No.

16 Q Now, Mr. Minton recently posted on the Internet 17 that there was a movie created by Mr. Alexander's company 18 that he called "our movie"? Do you know what I'm talking 19 about?

20 A I haven't seen that post.

21 Q Do you know what I'm talking about?

22 A I didn't see the post.

23 Q Are you aware of a movie created by Mr. Alexander?

24 A Yes.

25 Q Has LMT provided any of the funding for the movie?

86 1 A No.

2 Q Has Mr. Minton?

3 A I believe so.

4 Q You know how much?

5 A I don't know.

6 Q No idea?

7 A I don't know.

8 Q Was it more than a million dollars?

9 A I can tell you that the LMT hasn't provided any 10 funding for the movie and I don't know how much money 11 Mr. Minton has done on that.

12 Q You know if it's more than a million dollars?

13 PLF'S COUNSEL: Objection. Asked and 14 answered.

15 THE COURT: Sustained.

16 THE WITNESS: Sorry.

17 THE COURT: Sustained.

18 BY MR. MOXON:

19 MR. MERRETT: Could we take a comfort break.

20 THE COURT: I'm sorry.

21 MR. MERRETT: Can we take a comfort break its 22 coming right up on 3:30.

23 THE COURT: Okay. We're breaking at quarter 24 of 5, terminating for today. So I want you to know that.

25 (A recess was taken.)

87 1 A I wonder if I can just make a clarification before 2 we continue.

3 THE COURT: Go ahead.

4 A I just want to make it clear for the record that 5 it was my understanding from the order that I was to produce 6 documents. Documents to me mean something that you can hold 7 in your hand. I also want to make it clear that everything 8 that's on our Web site is publicly available. None of it is 9 encrypted or difficult in any way to access. It's as easy 10 to access for you or anybody else in this room. So I just 11 wanted to make that clear in case anybody doesn't understand 12 what a Web site -- how a Web site works.

13 THE COURT: Thank you.

14 You may proceed.

15 BY MR. MOXON:

16 Q On August 1st Mr. Minton made a posting to the 17 internaikston subject likere Bob Minton your outing of dye 18 an is the last straw for me in it he says I have personally 19 provided far less than half of the LMT's financial 20 resources. Do you know if that statement is accurate?

21 A Yes.

22 Q Who has provided the rest of the money? Who's 23 provided the rest of LMT's financial resources?

24 A Well, I believe I've already testified to that.

25 But I'll testify about it again. {about that above fix}.

88 1 We received $300,000 from Operation Clambake and 2 another 500,000 from -- as what I understood to be several 3 anonymous sources.

4 Q But all that money went to Mr. Minton.

5 A No. It came to the LMT.

6 Q And then to Mr. Mint, correct?

7 A Oh, well as part of repaying him, yes.

8 Q All right. Mr. Minton also testified at one point 9 that he had put in 1.3 million into LMT.

10 A I think that was -- 11 Q Some months go, correct?

12 A Perhaps, mm-hmm.

13 Q So -- so the money that -- Mr. Minton put in 14 1.3 million and got 600,000 back?

15 A So far.

16 Q So it's your consideration that the money wasn't 17 to repay Mr. Minton; it was to go into LMT; the money that 18 was received from Operation Clambake and from the other 19 anonymous source in Germany?

20 A It was for me to do with as I needed to do.

21 Q And you decided to give it all to Mr. Minton.

22 A I decided to use it to repay a loan.

23 Q And there haven't been any other investors or 24 contributors other than -- of any substance other than 25 Mr. Minton this clambake money and the anonymous German 89 1 money, correct?

2 A Not of that magnitude, if that's what you mean.

3 Q Yeah. Anything over a thousand dollars.

4 A Well, we've had some over a thousand dollars, yes.

5 Q Or any over 5,000?

6 A I don't -- I don't believe so. I don't believe 7 so.

8 Q Will Mr. Minton be repaid the entirety of the 9 loan, the amount of money that he's put in the company if 10 Ms. Librich revails in this case and LMT receives funds for 11 any hoped for proceeds in this case?

12 A LMT sinth risn't going to get any money from the 13 Lisa McPherson case.

14 Q How do you know?

15 A I can't imagine why we would. It's certainly not 16 anything that I've been offered or I've asked for. As I 17 think Mr. Dandar clarified earlier Mr. Minton has loaned him 18 money in order to litigate this case and if any money is won 19 I think he's expecting it to pay him back, the money that 20 he's been loaned.

21 Q So -- 22 A But that's all -- I mean, I certainly -- I mean, I 23 own the LMT and I'm not expecting any moneyyous of the Lisa 24 McPherson case. So -- 25 Q What's your understanding of the agreement between 90 1 Mr. Dandar and Mr. Minton?

2 A What he just said.

3 Q Well, tell me. What's your understanding of the 4 agreement?

5 A That.

6 MR. MERRETT: I'll object as being 7 repetitive. She just stated.

8 THE COURT: Overruled.

9 Your understanding, ma'am.

10 A That.

11 THE COURT: May be different than 12 Mr. Dandar's.

13 A Okay. That -- that Mr. Minton has loaned 14 Mr. Dandar money in order to litigate the Lisa McPherson 15 case for the estate of Lisa McPherson. And if he prevails 16 in the lawsuit and is able to do so, he will repay the loan 17 from Mr. Minton.

18 BY MR. MOXON:

19 Q Where is that money supposed to come from?

20 A I'm saying if he prevails in the lawsuit.

21 Q Is the money supposed to come from Ms. Librich or 22 from Mr. Dandar's cut of the case?

23 A I don't -- I don't know.

24 Q You don't have any understanding?

25 A I don't but I would assume twowltd come from 91 1 Mr. Dandar. I don't know. {it would fix}.

2 I don't know. I haven't spoken to Dell lebrich 3 about this ever. I haven't spoken to anybody about it 4 except for what I just heard from him is what I understand.

5 Q Now -- 6 A And that's my understanding.

7 Q -- over the past year and a half there's been a 8 lot of litigation in which this issue's come up repeatedly 9 correct?

10 A Well -- 11 Q You're aware -- 12 A But to clarify.

13 Q I'm just asking if you're aware of that.

14 A But -- I'll tell you what I'm aware of. I'm aware 15 that there's been a lot of litigation. I'm not a party of 16 any of it; the Lisa McPherson Trust is not a party of any of 17 it, Bob Minton is not a party in any of it. But Scientology 18 has made this issue the central issue in every piece of 19 litigation that exists. I am aware of that.

20 Q Does that cause you any concern?

21 A It's caused me to be brought into many, many 22 depositions.

23 Q Now -- 24 A By you and asked the same questions over and over 25 and over again.

92 1 Q But you've never talked -- 2 A Like you're doing today.

3 Q But you've never talked to del lebrich about it.

4 A I have not.

5 Q You ever talked to Bob Minton about it?

6 A No.

7 Q You ever talked to Mr. Dandar about it?

8 A No.

9 Q Aren't you curious to find out what the truth is 10 about the thing that's caused to you come to so many 11 depositions and sanctioned LMT so Mr. -- 12 A I know what the truth is -- 13 Q Where did you arrive at the truth.

14 A I'm living it every day.

15 THE COURT: Well, this isn't getting to facts 16 now. This is getting to personal opinions. Let's stick 17 with the facts.

18 BY MR. MOXON:

19 Q Yeah. Do you have any knowledge -- any facts -- 20 do you know what the agreement is between Mr. Dand and 21 Ms. Lebrich?

22 A No.

23 Q Other than the stock, has Mr. Minton transferred 24 any property to you?

25 A No.

93 1 Well, yes.

2 Q What?

3 A Seven guns.

4 THE COURT: I'm sorry? I didn't hear that.

5 THE WITNESS: Seven guns.

6 BY MR. MOXON:

7 Q He gave you seven guns?

8 A Yes, did he.

9 Q When?

10 A About two weeks ego.

11 Q What kind of guns?

12 A Some antiques things like that.

13 Q Why did he give you seven guns?

14 A Well, because ben Shaw the guy that's sitting next 15 to you wrote a letter to his probation officer in the 16 injunction case being overseen by judge penic and led his 17 probation officer to believe that somehow there had been 18 some violation of his probation because of his having these 19 guns. And so the probation officer ordered Bob Minton to 20 register his guns with the local police. So Bob Minton 21 called the local police and was told that there's no 22 provision in the literature for registering guns {}so he 23 spoke to his probation officer and they agreed that if he 24 turned over ownership of the guns to me then that would 25 resolve the issue.

94 1 Q Okay.

2 A So he did that.

3 Q Where are the gundz now?

4 A They're in my possession.

5 Q Are they in Mr. -- are they in new hamp shire?

6 A Yes.

7 Q In Mr. Minton's home?

8 A No.

9 Q Has Mr. Minton given you any other property?

10 A No.

11 Q Jewelry?

12 A No.

13 Q Car?

14 A No.

15 Q Who paid for the car that you drive?

16 A I did.

17 Q Down payment too?

18 A Yes.

19 Q Has Mr. Minton paid for any European trips for 20 you?

21 A No.

22 Q Has Mr. Minton paid for any European trips for 23 Mr. Prince?

24 A I don't know. Not that I know of.

25 Q Who paid for all the LMT staff to go to Germany 95 1 earlier this year?

2 A Funding.

3 Q Who?

4 A Funding in the -- funding of the LMT.

5 Q Who paid? Mr. Minton?

6 A The LMT paid the bills for the trip.

7 Q Okay. Where did the money come from?

8 A From various funding sources including Mr. Minton.

9 Q What other sources?

10 MR. MERRETT: This is way beyond the scope 11 and it's been beaten to death.

12 MR. MOXON: I just want to know about the 13 ones who are witnesses. That would include Jerry Armstrong, 14 you, Mr. Prince, Mr. Bunker, Mr. Jabs son -- 15 THE COURT: Then ask about them.

16 MR. MOXON: Okay.

17 BY MR. MOXON:

18 Q Of those -- those people, who paid for the 19 European trips of Mr. Bunker, yourself, Mr. Jacobson, 20 Ms. Summers -- 21 A Well, the Lisa McPherson Trust paid for it and the 22 funding that we had at that time was from Mr. Minton.

23 Q Who owns the building that LMT ocpice?

24 A Bob Minton. {occupies}.

25 Q Do you own any share or any part of that building 96 1 at all?

2 A No.

3 Q Did LMT pay for Mr. Merret's representation of 4 witness ersicka berta?

5 A No.

6 Q What is your salary by the way at the LMT?

7 A $5,000.

8 Q Same as Mr. Prince?

9 A Yes.

10 Q And you and Mr. Prince are both given credit cards 11 by LMT, is that correct?

12 A Well, yes they're not just for our use. They're 13 for the use of the staff ifbe need them. {}if we}.

14 Q So Mr. Bunker and Mr. Jacobson are also given 15 credit cards?

16 A There's three credit cards -- 17 Q Yeah.

18 A -- and they're for the use of whichever staff 19 member needs them.

20 Q Are they for personal use or -- 21 A No.

22 Q -- just business?

23 A Business.

24 Q Business? Nothing else?

25 A Absolutely.

97 1 Q Okay has LMT given any money to Mr. Dandar?

2 A No.

3 MR. MERRETT: The record should reflect that 4 the bills have been tendered along with an index on C 5 dollars.

6 A Oh.

7 MR. MOXON: Come again.

8 MR. MERRETT: The record should reflect 9 {}that the videos have been tendered on C dollars along with 10 an index {}.

11 MR. MOXON: Is that what this is?

12 MR. MERRETT: That's what I told you it was 13 when I handed it to you.

14 PLF'S COUNSEL: We'd like to have them all 15 marked by the court reporter, please.

16 MR. MOXON: Well, you can mark them, but they 17 won't do any good if the court reporter's the only one that 18 has them.

19 What are you representing these are.

20 MR. MERRETT: They're accompanied by ran 21 index that is a production response with respect to the 22 videos of the LMT.

23 MR. MOXON: Pore the four court orders?

24 MR. MERRETT: Yes.

25 A May I see the index, please?

98 1 PLF'S COUNSEL: Judge, we are going to mark 2 those as exhibits, right?

3 THE COURT: They will be marked.

4 MR. MOXON: Okay.

5 THE COURT: You want them marked now ow you 6 want them marked at the conclusion of the deposition.

7 MR. MOXON: I'm trying to figure out -- 8 THE COURT: Exhibit.

9 MR. MOXON: We can mark them all now.

10 THE COURT: Madamcourt reporter if you'll do 11 us the honors.

12 (.

13 (A discussion was held off the record.)

14 MR. MOXON: .

15 (A discussion was held off the record.)

16 (PARTY EXHIBIT Exhibit 17 Number Number marked for identification.)

18 BY MR. MOXON:

19 Q I've marked the exhibit (sic) as Defendant's 20 Exhibit 22.

21 The CDs are numbered 13 through 21.

22 And various titles I assume correspond with the 23 index.

24 Are all of these videos from off your Web site?

25 A Yes.

99 1 Q No other source?

2 A Correct.

3 Q Now, the clarification that you made when you came 4 back from your break a moment go, do I correctly understand 5 that to mean that there are electronic documents in the 6 computers of the LMT regarding Scientology that have not 7 been produced?

8 A Incorrect.

9 Q There's no statements from you, prince, minton, 10 summers, bunker, Armstrong or Alexander in your computers 11 regarding Scientology.

12 A As far as I know.

13 Q And you looked.

14 A Yes.

15 MR. MERRETT: For your education, I think 16 she's drawing a distinction between the working computers 17 and the Web server that contains the -- 18 A Oh, yeah.

19 MR. MERRETT: -- Web site content.

20 BY MR. MOXON:

21 Q And there's no statements on any of your computers 22 of any kind whatsoever by you, minton, prince, summers, 23 bunker or the other witnesses, concerning Lisa McPherson.

24 A Correct.

25 A Except on our wensite.

100 1 Q Except on your Web site.

2 A But I think that's -- distinction's been made.

3 Q By the way you searched Theresa summer's files for 4 complaints about Scientology, is that correct?

5 A That's incorrect.

6 Q Did you search trees summer's files?

7 A Yes. {}.

8 Q Did you find anything responsive to the document 9 request?

10 A No.

11 Q You didn't find any complaints about the Woodcraft 12 family?

13 A No.

14 Q You found nothing about Marcus carino?

15 A No. And if I had I wouldn't have turned them over 16 you to 'cause it's privileged.

17 Q What happened to the -- to the documents and her 18 files that she sent to government agencies?

19 A They went to government agencies.

20 Q And she didn't keep any copies?

21 A She didn't have any in her computer.

22 Q Does she have any hard copies?

23 A No.

24 Q What happened to them?

25 A I don't know.

101 1 Q Did you ask her?

2 A No.

3 Q Why not?

4 A I don't know.

5 Q You don't really know if she has any copies or 6 not, do you?

7 A Yes, I do.

8 MR. MERRETT: Let me make it clear at this 9 point are we now attempting to move beyond the court order 10 and into your new deposition and your new document demand?

11 Because if you are then there are objections and privileges 12 and responses that need to be made a matter of record at 13 this point. But you're done with the deposition that was 14 ordered by the court and you're going to use the rest of 15 your time to start a new one that we're not consenting to 16 but we'll stay here till quarter to 5 anyway then we need to 17 get things straight on the record.

18 THE WITNESS: But I think we should go 19 through the specific.

20 MR. MOXON: I don't know why we're having 21 this discussion I'm just asking questions that has nothing 22 to do with what you're talking about Mr. -- 23 A It dus. It does too. Because you're getting into 24 these 92 items that you've listed on the new subpoena -- 25 THE COURT: Let's ask a question. Let's get 102 1 ego started here, please.

2 BY MR. MOXON:

3 Q You'll 18th, Judge, moody issued and order that 4 {}required you to produce all segments of statements dealing 5 with Lisa McPherson, the Lisa McPherson case, the defendants 6 and Scientology. Okay? Now, did you search through Theresa 7 summer's files to find such references?

8 A Yes.

9 Q You found none.

10 A I didn't find any that aren't covered by 11 privilege.

12 Q So you did find some, but you're not turning them 13 over.

14 A I just -- I'm just telling you I didn't find 15 anything that wasn't covered by privilege.

16 Q Okay. That's not exactly what I asked you.

17 Did you find any? Yes or no.

18 A No.

19 MR. MERRETT: Let's stop right here. Stop 20 right here and I'm going to read that and.

21 PLF'S COUNSEL: Address it to the judge.

22 MR. MERRETT: Counsel has prnlts 23 deliberatelyly attempted to mislead you and everybody else.

24 The statement that he just read says and shall produce 25 unedtid videos in the possession, custody or control of the 103 1 Lisa McPherson trust, Inc. of statements of any person 2 presently identified as a witness in the case." and then it 3 says Mr. Minton shall further file a sworn statement that 4 LMT searched their video files as to the entire witness list 5 for the parties and produced {}allsegments of statements 6 dealing with Lisa McPherson the Lisa McPherson case 7 defendants and Scientology. The order that counsel 8 partially quoted refers to videos and video statements. And 9 I'm going to instruct the witness not to allow herself to be 10 bulleed or misled by his falsehood and ask that you be 11 directed he be directed by the court to either truthfully 12 enunce 80 what's in the order or ask a different question.

13 THE COURT: Well, rephrase the question, 14 please.

15 BY MR. MOXON:

16 Q Are there any documents in trees summer's files 17 consixth sisting of -- 18 THE COURT: First of all who's Theresa smers.

19 MR. MOXON: She's an employee of the Lisa 20 McPherson Trust that Mr. Dandar has put on his witness list.

21 BY MR. MOXON:

22 Q Are there any documents that were created by Lisa 23 McPherson (sic) that concern in any fashion -- excuse me -- 24 are there any documents that were created by Lisa McPherson 25 Lisa McPherson (sic) -- or maintained by her.

104 1 A You did it again.

2 Q What?

3 A You said it again.

4 Q Let me try again.

5 Are there any documents that are created by 6 Theresa summers as an LMT employee that are ever part of any 7 of the LMT files that concern any of the witnesses in this 8 case?

9 A No.

10 Q Okay. So none about Marcus carino.

11 A No.

12 Q None about -- 13 A Mark us crineo?

14 Q Right.

15 A I didn't see his name on any witness list.

16 Q Okay. He's on there.

17 A Where?

18 THE COURT: Well, just answer the questions, 19 please. Don't -- 20 BY MR. MOXON:

21 Q Are there any.

22 THE COURT: Try and judge.

23 MR. MERRETT: They provided the witness list 24 and I don't want them to be in a posture to try and trap 25 them later if he can show it to herton witness list that 105 1 Scientology provided her then that's a different matter.

2 But for the witness to be left dangling because he's going 3 to pop up with some witness list -- someone else's.

4 THE COURT: If she doesn't know the answer to 5 the question she just says I don't know.

6 PLF'S COUNSEL: Judge, I'm looking at what 7 they provided you in your black binder. Mark us crineo is 8 not listed there unless he's out of alphabetical order.

9 MR. MOXON: He's been deposed by whether 10 candar.

11 MR. MERRETT: And this witness is supposed to 12 know that how.

13 THE COURT: Well, she just said I don't know.

14 A I don't know.

15 MR. MOXON: Mr. Mert keeps interrupting me in 16 the middle of my question.

17 PLF'S COUNSEL: And he's not on my witness 18 list.

19 THE COURT: Ask the question again, please.

20 You're confusing your time up and I'm going to be out of 21 here I'm.

22 MR. MOXON: I know.

23 THE COURT: I'm telling you at 4 assist 45 24 I'm walking out wherever you are.

25 Q Did you or you did not find any documents in trees 106 1 summer's files concerning witness mark us crineo?

2 A No. When ask you the question that way I did not 3 because he's not a witness to my knowledge.

4 Q Well, did you find any records concerning mark us 5 crineo?

6 A Yes.

7 Q Okay. You doesn't produce them right?

8 A That's right.

9 Q Did you find any concerning the woodcrafts?

10 A Yes.

11 Q Yes.

12 A They're not witnesses.

13 Q You didn't produce that right?

14 A They're not witnesses.

15 Q I'm just saying did you produce it or not?

16 A They're not witnesses.

17 THE COURT: Just answer the question yes or 18 no, ma'am, and.

19 A No.

20 THE COURT: -- going to criticize you for not 21 producing them if you didn't think they were witnesses I 22 mean, we can move much faster if we just answer the question 23 asked. Once the question is asked then we move on to 24 another question.

25 107 1 BY MR. MOXON:

2 Q Did you find any records in trees summer's files 3 concerning complaints against church staff members?

4 A Yes.

5 Q Okay. You did not produce them, correct?

6 A That's correct.

7 Q Did you hire any shredding companies to shred any 8 files?

9 A One afternoon we had to 'cause our shredder broke.

10 Q What was the shred company?

11 A I have no idea.

12 Q Who did that?

13 A I -- one of my staff. I can't remember who.

14 Q Did you pay them?

15 MR. MERRETT: Pay whom.

16 BY MR. MOXON:

17 Q The shregd company?

18 A Yes. {shredding}.

19 Q So you'd have a check?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Did you talk to Ms. Summers about whether or not 22 she had any records responsive to the request?

23 A Yes.

24 Q And the reason for not producing the mark us 25 crineo files is what?

108 1 A He's not a within. It's privileged. It's beyond 2 the scope. It's overly broad. And it's irrelevant.

3 Q And what privilege are you asserting as the basis 4 for that?

5 MR. MERRETT: Privilege is a free speech 6 privilege, it's anosiation privilege, it's an 7 advocacy;ditionly potentially priest pentent privilege all 8 of which revoflgz around Scientology documented history of 9 attacked and abuses on it of those that oppose it.

10 MR. MOXON: Let me just get the legal 11 privileged. Free speech.

12 MR. MERRETT: I'll tell you what you can get 13 the court reporter to read it back with you.

14 MR. MOXON: I'm not familiar with any such 15 privilege.

16 THE COURT: That's imteller. You've got the 17 reason for the refusal to answer, file your motion -- 18 MR. MOXON: Okay.

19 MR. MERRETT: And additionally privacy 20 privileges under state and federal constitution.

21 BY MR. MOXON:

22 Q There's a document request attached to the 23 subpoena that was served on your corporation on August 10th 24 you made reference to a moment go? We'll mark that as 25 Exhibit -- 109 1 A This?

2 Q -- -- we'll mark the notice which has the subpoena 3 attached as Exhibit 23.

4 (PARTY EXHIBIT Exhibit 5 Number Number marked for identification.)

6 A May I see it?

7 BY MR. MOXON:

8 Q The list of documents to be produced -- 9 A Mm-hmm, yes.

10 Q Number 1 is copies of all letters, emplt mails, 11 forms, affidavits, declarations, statements or any other 12 domentsdz concerning communication with any government 13 agency with respect to any witness or family member of any 14 witness listed on any party's witness lists, attached, 15 and/or any individual that has knowledge of the facts 16 concerning the status of Lisa McPherson versus church of 17 Scientology flagservice organization.

18 Do you have any documents to produce responsive to 19 that request?

20 A No.

21 Q Do you possess any documents, that is does LMT 22 possess any documents roeufbs to that question?

23 A I do not, but if I might make a statement about 24 that. It would be not only irrelevant but also beyond the 25 scope, overly broad and privileged. So I do not have any 110 1 documents responsive to that item but if I did I would not 2 provide them.

3 BY MR. MOXON:

4 Q Okay. So you don't have any documents that are -- 5 connect cbt of communications with any government agency 6 concerning either Marcus crineo or the Woodcraft family, 7 correct?

8 A What this states exactly if you read it clearly is 9 with respect to any witness or family member of any witness 10 on any party's witness list. And I didn't see Marcus 11 crine's name on any of the witness lists.

12 Q How about Leslie Woodcraft?

13 A Leslie Woodcraft? I have never spoken to Leslie 14 Woodcraft.

15 Q Do you or do you not -- your company -- possess 16 any documents concerning Leslie Woodcraft.

17 MR. MERRETT: Hold on a moment do you mean 18 documents responsive to that request?

19 THE COURT: Yes.

20 BY MR. MOXON:

21 MR. MOXON: Yes.

22 A No.

23 BY MR. MOXON:

24 Q So there are no documents concerning 25 communications with any government agency with respect to 111 1 Leslie Woodcraft or her family. Is that your testimony?

2 PLF'S COUNSEL: Objection. Different 3 testimony.

4 THE COURT: Well, she answered the question.

5 That's a new question.

6 PLF'S COUNSEL: Yes.

7 BY MR. MOXON:

8 Q Answer?

9 A Perhaps we do have documents responsive to this if 10 you mean somebody like Leslie Woodcraft, but I'm not going 11 to produce them because they are beyond the scope, overly 12 broad and privileged.

13 Q Okay. So first question is, do you possess such 14 documents? Yes or no?

15 A Not to my knowledge. But if I do, I'm not going 16 to produce them.

17 Q So you don't know if you have any -- 18 A I don't really. I didn't think I did.

19 Q You didn't look.

20 A Yes, I did look. I didn't think I did. And I 21 don't have any documents from Leslie Woodcraft buvment if 22 you mean -- even if she's mentioned in a document she may be 23 mentioned.

24 Q Yeah. I mean, you know she's mentioned because 25 Theresa summers has -- has been having correspondence with 112 1 government agencies concerning Leslie Woodcraft and her 2 family, correct?

3 A I -- I don't believe that Theresa had any 4 correspondence concerning Leslie Woodcraft other -- the 5 other people aren't witnesses.

6 MR. MERRETT: Ill snsm (inaudible) 7 THE COURT: Unless you're going to make a 8 statement for the record, don't make any statements.

9 BY MR. MOXON:

10 Q Ms. Brooks my question is very simple. I just 11 want to know if you know if any documents have been created 12 by Theresa summers or an LMT {}concerning Leslie Woodcraft 13 or her family. Yes or no?

14 A Yes. I know that they have.

15 Q Okay.

16 A It's not responsive to this number 1 -- 17 Q Okay. Leslie Woodcraft is a witness on the 18 witness list, right?

19 A I understand that.

20 Q Mr. Dandar's list?

21 A I have no documents by Leslie Woodcraft.

22 Q I didn't ask if you had any documents by Leslie 23 Woodcraft.

24 Number 2, requests all correspondences with any 25 currently or former Scientology or the parent or guard I 113 1 know of any current or former scoggist {}. Do you have any 2 such documents?

3 A Yes.

4 Q You're not producing them, correct?

5 A No, I'm not.

6 Q Number 3.

7 A It's beyond the scope it's overly broad and it's 8 privileged.

9 Q Number 3 any and all forms or quenaeurz used by 10 any employee member or agent of the Lisa McPherson trust 11 used in compiling any information or complooeunlts of any 12 witnesses or family members of any witnesses listed on 13 defendants witnesses listened or any individual of who has 14 knowledge of the facts concerning this case {check }do you 15 have any such documents?

16 A Yes.

17 Q You're not producing them, correct?

18 A Correct.

19 Q Number 4 -- 20 A Same reason.

21 Q Okay. Number 4, any leaf lets fliers e-mails web 22 pages or other promotional material used by Lisa McPherson 23 Trust to solicit complaints or otherwise solicit information 24 for any complaints for any witnesses or family members of 25 any witnesses listed on defendant's witness list and/or any 114 1 individual who has knowledge of the facts concerning this 2 case. Do you have any such documents?

3 A No. If I did I wouldn't give them to you for the 4 same reasons I stated for number 1.

5 Q You don't know if you have any or not correct?

6 A No. I -- I don't have any.

7 Q How do you know? Did you search?

8 A Yes. But I mean, I know we haven't created 9 anything like that. You're asking if we had any 10 solicitation and we don't. We haven't.

11 But again if I did have it I wouldn't give it to 12 you so -- 13 It's privileged.

14 Q Where did you search for that?

15 A All over the Lisa McPherson Trust. I know what 16 we've created. I know what we're doing. We aren't 17 soliciting it. We have people coming to us every day 18 needing help. When they need help, we work with them.

19 Q And you don't create any documents.

20 A That's not what it says. It cease leff lets 21 fliers e-mails web pages or any other promotional material 22 used to solicit complaints.

23 Q Okay. Number 5, any and all documents concerning 24 the statement from the Lisa McPherson Trust announcement 25 that it has quote documented cases in which Scientology has 115 1 committed exactly the crimes that the French have named dash 2 froud abuse of confidence the illegal practice of medicine 3 wrongful advertising sexual abuse as well as many others end 4 quote do you have any documents to produce responsive to 5 that request?

6 A I do have documents.

7 Q And where are they?

8 A I'm not going to give them to you.

9 Q On what basis?

10 A Privilege.

11 Q Which privilege?

12 MR. MERRETT: Same privilege as previously 13 number rade.

14 MR. MOXON: All of them?

15 MR. MERRETT: Yeah.

16 MR. MOXON: Fifth amendment? One of them?

17 A No.

18 MR. MERRETT: You'll just have to rely on 19 your memory and your transcript counselor ask the witness a 20 question.

21 BY MR. MOXON:

22 Q If you could just tell me what -- if you could 23 please identify the privileges.

24 MR. MERRETT: They've already been 25 identified. We've all.

116 1 MR. MOXON: I don't want to argue.

2 THE COURT: Well, file your motion to compel.

3 MR. MERRETT: They're the same ones.

4 THE COURT: And he'll file a response to it 5 and the court will rule. Whether or not there is a 6 privilege attached and if so whether or not it applies to 7 this.

8 BY MR. MOXON:

9 Q Okay. Number 6 any and all documents concerning 10 communications about or with mark us crineo astra woodcraft 11 Lawrence woodcrairks Joe Woodcraft and marra P piksz 12 gardenia are there any such documents?

13 A Yes.

14 Q Are you producing them?

15 A I'm not. It's beyond the scope, it's overly broad 16 ooeuntsd privileged.

17 Q Okay. 8, all records reflecting payments to 18 counsel for the criminal defense of Jesse Prince.

19 A I've provided those to you.

20 Q The only documents you have are the checks that 21 you've written to Mr. Deflam?

22 A Yes.

23 Q No other documents exist?

24 A Correct.

25 Q Is there any agreement with Mr. Deflam and LMT?

117 1 A There was but it's over and it's gone. I don't 2 have a copy of it.

3 Q What happened to it?

4 A I shredded it. We don't -- the case was over.

5 Q Was this a business expense?

6 A Yes.

7 Q And you shredded the evidence of it?

8 A No.

9 Q When did you shred it?

10 A Soon after the case was thrown out.

11 Q What was the document?

12 A It was just a letter saying this is going to be my 13 fee.

14 Q Was it a form of an agreement with LMT?

15 A No. It was just a letter.

16 Q Was it a letter agreement?

17 A Well -- 18 Q It set forth the terms of the agreement with LMT?

19 A Yeah. He said seth forth -- he let me know what 20 his fee would be.

21 Q And LMT was obligated to pay for it?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Number 9 is all documents you've received 24 concerning the case of librich versus church of Scientology 25 Flag service organization. Do you have any documents 118 1 responsive to that request?

2 A The only documents that exist are in our legal 3 files of John mert. Because we don't have anything except 4 for documents that have been filed in the case. We don't 5 have anything else.

6 Q Now, you -- were you acting as an expert 7 consultant in this case or some sort of consultant?

8 A I believe in 1997 I did.

9 Q Not since then?

10 A I don't -- I'd have to refresh my memory with 11 Mr. Dandar but I don't believe so.

12 Q Okay. When did you stop? Sometime in '98?

13 A Perhaps.

14 Q Are there any -- what happened to the documents 15 from 19 -- when you say perhaps does that mean yes?

16 A It means I don't remember. I'd have to consult 17 with Mr. Dandar to be able to tell you correctly.

18 Q Well, tell me your best -- rather than Mr. Dandar, 19 tell me what your best understanding is.

20 A I haven't been consulted on the case {a 21 consultant} in long enough for me to remember when last I 22 was a consultant on the case.

23 Q So two years? Three years?

24 A Possibly.

25 Q Well, tell me how many. How long?

119 1 A Two or three years.

2 MR. MERRETT: I'm going to object again.

3 Asked and answered.

4 BY MR. MOXON:

5 Q Okay.

6 THE COURT: She's answered it.

7 BY MR. MOXON:

8 Q Number 10 states all documents concerning -- 9 Oh, so you lf all that any correspondence you had 10 with Mr. Dandar has been destroyed?

11 MR. MERRETT: Hang on a minute.

12 PLF'S COUNSEL: Assumes facts not in 13 evidence.

14 MR. MERRETT: And the document was to LMT.

15 MR. MOXON: Fair enough.

16 MR. MERRETT: Not to the witness.

17 MR. MOXON: I was just.

18 BY MR. MOXON:

19 Q Did you have any correspondence with Mr. Dan while 20 you were working at LMT?

21 A No.

22 MR. MERRETT: The witness personally or the 23 LMT?

24 MR. MOXON: The witness personally. Well, I 25 mean, you. I'm talking about you. Did you, Ms. Brooks, 120 1 have any correspondence with Mr. Dandar?

2 A No. Again all I have received or is at the LMT is 3 in the legal files and they've been subpoenas for 4 depositions -- 5 Q Did -- 6 A That's all.

7 Q Did LMT have any correspondence with Mr. Dandar 8 when you've been at LMT?

9 A No. Only as I just described.

10 Q Is there any agreement between LMT and Mr. Dandar?

11 A No.

12 Q Does LMT owe Mr. Dandar any money?

13 A No.

14 Q Does Mr. Dandar owe LMT any money?

15 A No.

16 Q Number 10 seeks all documents concerning any 17 complaints to any government agency or entity against 18 defendant church of Scientology Flag service organization 19 and/or any of its staff. Do you have any responsive 20 documents?

21 A Yes.

22 Q Are you producing them?

23 A No, I'm not. Same privilege.

24 Q Number 11 is all videos letters and any other type 25 of communication and material provided to any government 121 1 agency entity or employee regarding the defendant church of 2 Scientology Flag service organization and/or any of its 3 staff. Do you have any such records?

4 A Yes.

5 Q Are you producing them?

6 A No. Same privilege.

7 Q Okay. Do you have any videos responsive? There's 8 several categories here R there any videos responsive to 9 that request?

10 A I don't believe so.

11 Q Are there letters responsive to that request?

12 A Probably.

13 Q Do you remember the video that was created by LMT 14 and given to the Clearwater police?

15 A Yes.

16 Q Okay. You didn't produce that, did you?

17 A Yes.

18 Q Is that on one of these CDs?

19 A I believe so. I'm in it. You wanted video of me 20 and I'm in that so I think you do have that. I'd have to 21 look at the index. I think you have it.

22 Q Now -- 23 A If you don't have it you can get it on our Web 24 site.

25 Q These videos are all edited aren't they all the 122 1 videos that were placed on your Web site?

2 A Yes.

3 Q Where are the unedited original videos?

4 A You'll have to ask Mark Bunker.

5 Q They're in his possession?

6 A If there are any they're in his possession.

7 Q Well, I mean, if they haven't been destroyed?

8 A If there are any they're in his possession.

9 That's what I mean.

10 Q There are none in LMT's possession -- 11 A Correct.

12 Q -- none of the original videos.

13 A Correct.

14 Q Mr. Bunker was paid for his video work by LMT, 15 correct?

16 A He's paid for the work he does four LMT. He's not 17 paid for the work that he does on his own -- 18 Q Does he have another job?

19 A Well, he does other work.

20 Q Does he have other employment?

21 A No. But he is working on other projects.

22 Q He's not -- doesn't make any money on these other 23 projects.

24 A Well, he has made money on his other projects and 25 he expects to make money on his other projects again.

123 1 Q He's a final judgment employee of LMT isn't he?

2 A He is full-time employee of ours and he also works 3 a lot in his off hours on his own.

4 Q He's not employed by anyone else that you know of 5 correct?

6 A No. The other workhe does is his own creative 7 work.

8 Q Was this police video produced for LMT?

9 A It was.

10 Q Paid for by LMT?

11 A No.

12 Q Who paid for it?

13 A Nobody. I mean, we paid mark for the work that he 14 did if that's what you mean.

15 Q That's what I mean.

16 A Mm-hmm.

17 Q Number 12 is all records reflecting any and all 18 payments received from Robert minton for operating expenses 19 and debts. Do you have any responsive records?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Are there any records that you haven't produced?

22 A I didn't produce those records. It was beyond the 23 scope of the court order.

24 Q What records do you have?

25 A I just have the records reflecting payments 124 1 received from Robert mint to the LMT.

2 Q Just tell me -- identify the records in some 3 fashion so I know what you're talking about.

4 A Bank statements.

5 Q Anything else?

6 A No.

7 Q Why didn't you produce the bank statements?

8 A Because it was beyond the scope of the court 9 order. It's -- it calls for me to provide documents of 10 payments to witnesses.

11 Q Mr. Minton's a witness, isn't he?

12 A So I did provide number 13.

13 Q So did you provide -- I just asked if you you 14 provided.

15 MR. MERRETT: No, you didn't.

16 A You asked 12 -- 17 BY MR. MOXON:

18 Q Okay.

19 A I provided 13 'cause it was payments to Mr. Minton 20 'cause he's a witness.

21 Q Okay. But you didn't provide -- 22 A But LMT's not a witness so I didn't provide those.

23 Q So {but the}.

24 Q So the only records you have reflecting payments 25 received from Robert mint are your bank statements?

125 1 A Yes.

2 Q Where are the unedited portions of the police 3 video?

4 A I don't know.

5 Q Did you look for them?

6 A Yes.

7 Q Where did you look?

8 A I looked in the LMT offices.

9 Q Clarify something for me. Is it your testimony 10 that LMT pleasant possesses no {}videos at all except what 11 it's on its Web site {presently possesses}.

12 A Correct.

13 Q Now, in May of 2000 when I took Mr. Mint's 14 deposition he said there were hundreds of videos that LMT 15 had. They had rows and rows and rows of videos, actual 16 videos. Where are all of those?

17 A We have copies of the videos that are on the Web 18 site because families ask for them we send them out for 19 people.

20 Q -- 21 Q Where are the videos -- the hundreds of vid yos 22 Mr. Minton referenced in his deposition of May of 2000?

23 A I don't know. They weren't LMT property.

24 Q Where did they go?

25 A I don't know.

126 1 Q Did they just displaern disappear?

2 A But they weren't LMT property so even if they were 3 in the LMT office they wouldn't be responsive to this -- 4 Q Okay. Well -- 5 A Document request.

6 Q You don't know what happened to them?

7 A I don't.

8 Q Did you ask anyone what happened to the hundreds 9 of videos that were in your possession a year and a half go?

10 A I'll tell you what I did.

11 Q Just -- just answer that question if you could.

12 A I am -- I'm going to. The order was to provide 13 whatever videos are in the possession, custody or control of 14 the LMT. And that's what I did. Every single one that has 15 anything to do with any of the witnesses on the list are on 16 those CDs.

17 Q Ms. brooks, do you know what happened to the 18 several hundred videos that were in LMT's possession in May 19 of 2000.

20 MR. MERRETT: I'm going to object as asked 21 and answered about five dam times your Honor.

22 THE COURT: I'm sorry don't use that 23 language, please.

24 MR. MERRETT: I beg your pardon. He's asked 25 that question about five times.

127 1 THE COURT: Overruled she hasn't directly 2 answered it.

3 A I haven't? I don't know. There are still many, 4 many video cassettes in the LMT so that may be what he was 5 talking about.

6 BY MR. MOXON:

7 Q How many are there?

8 A We keep many copies of each std videos that are 9 the most popular ones to send out to people on request.

10 Q How many do you have?

11 A Perhaps they're -- at -- you know -- unless 12 they've been sadly depleted a couple of hundred maybe.

13 Q You have many duplicates is that what you're 14 saying?

15 A Yeah. But they're on there.

16 Q Okay. And those several -- in May of 2000 you had 17 several hundred also. Have you made more copies since then?

18 A Perhaps. I'm not sure when the last time mark.

19 Q You didn't actually -- 20 A Those solidiose hy{{check }.

21 A }.

22 A Well, when I looked {overlapped} which was within 23 the past week there were maybe a couple of hundred.

24 Q And they're -- 25 A What Mr. Mint was talking about saying there were 128 1 several hundred I don't know.

2 Q The couple hundred you looked at those were 3 multpreponderance copies of things.

4 A Yeah.

5 Q That you send out to people?

6 A Yeah. He keeps them, you know, lots of copies of 7 the Woodcraft video all together lots of copies of Maria's 8 video lots of copies of the police video.

9 Q Okay. All those three videos that you mentioned 10 were created after May of 2000 so my question to you is you 11 don't know what happened to the ones that existed in May of 12 2000, correct?

13 A What do you mean? What do you mean the ones?

14 Q The videos.

15 A The videos?

16 Q Right.

17 A Well, like I said, I think what you're saying -- I 18 mean, I think they're on the CDs.

19 Q But you don't know, do you?

20 A Okay. Every -- 21 Q Ms. Brooks.

22 A Video.

23 Q Just a minute let me clarify.

24 MR. MERRETT: No, no, no, you asked her a 25 question.

129 1 THE COURT: Excuse me you're going to address 2 your objections to me.

3 MR. MERRETT: Yes, sir.

4 THE COURT: You're going to act professional 5 you're going to refrain from swearing or you're going to be 6 out of this room in five seconds.

7 MR. MERRETT: Yes, sir.

8 THE COURT: Do you understand that?

9 MR. MERRETT: Yes, sir.

10 THE COURT: I expect to you act professional 11 as a lawyer.

12 MR. MERRETT: Yes, sir. The forgotten has 13 asked a question the witness is attempting to answer he's 14 attempting to prohibit her to answer it I ask she be termed 15 to sce the question.

16 THE COURT: Ask the question you answer it 17 don't argue with the witness.

18 MR. MERRETT: May the question be read wack.

19 THE COURT: Read the question back.

20 Q 21 THE COURT: Rephrase your question {listen to 22 the question answer exactly what he wants from the question.

23 If you don't know if answer state I don't know. Don't argue 24 with the witness.

25 MR. MOXON: Yes, sir. {read back above}.

130 1 BY MR. MOXON:

2 Q Do you know what happened to the several hundred 3 videos that existed in May of 2000 I believe so.

4 Q Actual cas sets. What happened to them?

5 A I believe that many copies have been sent out to 6 people and I believe many of those copies are still in the 7 Lisa McPherson Trust.

8 Q Okay. Did you look at every single video that was 9 in the -- 10 A Yes.

11 Q -- in your office? Every single one?

12 A Yes.

13 Q And you're saying every single one is -- has been 14 down loaded on to one of these CDs?

15 A Well -- yes. But what.

16 Q Okay.

17 A I'm saying is a lot of the vidcassettes are copies 18 of one time {check above overlap}.

19 Q Now, there are a number of videos that are made of 20 picts -- you call them peukts -- {pickets} where you and 21 minton and prince binker and jackobson {}are picketing, 22 making comments outside of the Church, correct?

23 A I believe the last time that happened was maybe in 24 '98, maybe the beginning of '99.

25 Q There weren't any -- that didn't happen during the 131 1 year 2000 or 2001?

2 A Twaps it perhaps it did but I haven't been 3 picketing, so -- 4 Q Where are the videos of the pickets?

5 A A lot of them are on these CDs. If you look at 6 the index there's quite a few of them on the CDs.

7 Q Well, I'm not going to argue with you, but let me 8 just tell you this and see if I can refresh your 9 recollection.

10 THE COURT: Just ask the questions, please.

11 BY MR. MOXON:

12 Q So as a predicate I looked through the Web site 13 and there's practically.

14 MR. MERRETT: I'm going to object to counsel 15 testifying.

16 THE COURT: Just ask the question.

17 MR. MOXON: I'm just trying to tell her which 18 ones I'm looking for because I looked through the Web site 19 and there are a few -- there are a couple of pickets, but 20 there are some -- just some excerpts. However Mark Bunker 21 videos every time and mark -- and Jeff Jacobson videos of 22 time these pickets are done and they're not on the Web site.

23 Do you know if videos of pickets, the full lengths of the 24 pickets when they video for hours are still in existence?

25 A I don't, actually.

132 1 Q And they're not included in these CDs are they?

2 A Wl I'm not exactly sure what you mean but you just 3 said that there was something you were looking for that you 4 didn't find.

5 Q Dozens of -- dozens of pickets where I have seen 6 Mark Bunkerer out vid yoag and Jeff Jacobson vid yoag, 7 standing there with videos and they're interviewing you 8 intriewrg minton and minton talking videos and they're not 9 on your Web site.

10 A I don't know.

11 Q You have no idea what happened to them?

12 A I don't really. I mean, they're not in my 13 possession.

14 Q They're not in LMT's possession?

15 A No.

16 THE COURT: You have 10 minutes.

17 MR. MOXON: Well, I've got a lot more than 10 18 minutes so we ought -- 19 THE COURT: Well, you've got 10 minutes 20 today.

21 MR. MOXON: Okay.

22 BY MR. MOXON:

23 Q Last question for today then. Did LMT pay for the 24 publication of Steven has san's book?

25 A No.

133 1 MR. MOXON: Okay. I suggest that we 2 reschedule then at this point and break for today, so -- 3 THE COURT: Any objection.

4 PLF'S COUNSEL: I have to object because it's 5 our strong position that this is a totally waisted the 6 plaintiff's -- 7 THE COURT: Any objection to the break today.

8 PLF'S COUNSEL: For your convenience judge.

9 THE COURT: I'm not asking on what's going to 10 happen in the future I'm just saying right now. You have 10 11 minutes left to use.

12 PLF'S COUNSEL: I think you should use up the 13 10 minutes.

14 THE COURT: I don't care it's up to you how 15 you want to use those 10 minutes. We've addressed.

16 PLF'S COUNSEL: I have.

17 PLF'S COUNSEL: Yam cram.

18 THE COURT: Address that that to all the 19 parties.

20 PLF'S COUNSEL: I have cross examination but 21 quite frankly if they're not done then I think they should 22 use up their 10 minutes that they have left. I told Judge 23 Schaeffer {they} they could finish this thrch.

24 THE COURT: It's up to them how they want to 25 use that time just as it's up to you how you want to use the 134 1 time.

2 PLF'S COUNSEL: You have no further 3 questions.

4 MR. MOXON: I have hours of questions.

5 PLF'S COUNSEL: Hours.

6 MR. MOXON: A lot of questions I was just 7 provided this.

8 PLF'S COUNSEL: I have cross examination.

9 MR. MOXON: A stack of videos.

10 PLF'S COUNSEL: I don't have anything to say 11 or do for the plaintiff.

12 MR. MOXON: Well, I would hope we could use 13 this time to schedule before you leave your Honor I'm sorry.

14 MR. MOXON: I would like to stey if we could 15 reschedule before you leave, you have to leave in seven 16 minutes. If we could get your time and see if we could work 17 out while we have everybody here because it's so difficult 18 to schedule these there have been many court orders with 19 respect -- 20 THE COURT: That's fine.

21 MR. MOXON: -- to the scheduling.

22 MR. MERRETT: We're not agreeing to 23 reconvening. Mr. Moon stood flatfooted and fold Judge 24 Schaeffer this was a records production deposition he could 25 do it in an afternoon.

135 1 THE COURT: All right. You're just going to 2 have to set it for a time certain. I have time available 3 fwu it doesn't depend just on my time it depends on 4 everybody's time that's how we've been setting these 5 depositions.

6 MR. MOXON: What I'd like do while we're on 7 the record if we could get our calendars and see what the 8 tentative dates could be and if they want to make a moeks 9 for protective order to stop it so be it but at least we'll 10 have the date set because setting the dates is the most 11 impossible part.

12 MR. MERRETT: Let me make it clear you've 13 already told the judge you wanted anal afternoon for this 14 deposition the motion is going to be a motion for further 15 deposition.

16 MR. MOXON: So you're refusing to appear.

17 MR. MERRETT: Yes. We have complied with.

18 THE COURT: You're going to have to set it 19 down.

20 MR. MERRETT: We're here you told the judge 21 an arch.

22 THE COURT: I I'd just go ahead and set it 23 down for a date and let them object and have a hearing.

24 MR. MOXON: That's what I'd like do do.

25 THE COURT: And then if I find that you're 136 1 entitled to continue {}the deposition and the date that 2 you've set it for is not convenient we can always reset that 3 day but the issue right now is whether or not the deposition 4 should continue at some future date because they apparent 5 are going to object to it.

6 MR. MOXON: Yeah.

7 THE COURT: So that's the procedure I would 8 utilize.

9 MR. MOXON: Okay. And one last point on my 10 behalf oz asto the scheduling is that it's been a year and a 11 half, almost a year and a half since the last -- since the 12 first day of this deposition. It's lerlly taken us this 13 long to get her back in for a few hours. I -- Mr. Merret 14 doesn't return any of my calls and he rarely answers my 15 letters and so we can't schedule these things informally 16 many it's just impossible.

17 THE COURT: Well, you just proceed under the 18 rules. Set them down, don't -- you -- apparently you 19 determined to yourself -- to your satisfaction that you're 20 not going to get cooperation from the other side -- 21 MR. MOXON: Yeah.

22 THE COURT: So just follow the riewlses 23 that's all.

24 PLF'S COUNSEL: There's already on the record 25 and in writing from Mr. Merit to Mr. Mox on and brought 137 1 before Judge Schaeffer last week that the September 18th, 2 19th and 20th was set aside for these irrelevant depositions 3 that they want to take of Mr. Minton and Stacy brooks and 4 LMT trust, taking any more days out of our limited time 5 would be unconscionable so I'm suggesting that if they get 6 court approval to continue the LMT deposition that it be 7 done on one of those three days. They already have.

8 MR. MERRETT: That would be fine.

9 PLF'S COUNSEL: Have Mr. Minton on the 18th 10 of September and you're already coming back for those.

11 THE COURT: That's true.

12 PLF'S COUNSEL: Or you're going to be in 13 town.

14 THE COURT: All I can say is that since there 15 is this mood in this case, perspectly at this phase of the 16 case -- not so in the other part of the case -- that you 17 play it strictly by the rules. Since there's not going to 18 be a spirit of cooperation and trying to adjust schedules if 19 that is -- at least that's been represented to me I'm not 20 making that as a fingtd -- then I suggest you follow it 21 strictly by the ruled let the chips fall where you may.

22 MR. MERRETT: If you want to set it during 23 those three days that would be fine.

24 MR. MOXON: Well, I'd actually like to set it 25 for an earlier time. I know Judge Beach, I believe you're 138 1 going to be here the last -- 2 THE COURT: Well, we're having a hearing on 3 the 27th of August.

4 PLF'S COUNSEL: 3:00.

5 THE COURT: The 3:00, the place to be 6 determined to discuss scheduling for the rest of this case 7 insofar as discovery is concerned.

8 MR. MOXON: Okay.

9 THE COURT: And if you want to be included in 10 that I would be dlieted to have you attend. You will be 11 given notice of it I assume. This is your notice right now.

12 MR. MOXON: Okay.

13 THE COURT: So the only other thing that you 14 need to know is to where and that will be provided to you 15 by -- well, you'll know.

16 MR. MOXON: Okay. Good.

17 THE COURT: I mean, you'll know.

18 MR. MOXON: So I'll go ahead and file my 19 motion to compel since they've already indicated they don't 20 intend to -- intend to appear -- 21 THE COURT: Now, when you file -- when we had 22 the hearing on the motion to compel I want all the documents 23 in question that you have asserted the privilege or refusal 24 to produce to bring to the hearing so if necessary for me to 25 inspect in camera they'll be there so we don't have to have 139 1 a subsequent hearing for me to make a determination whether 2 or not the document is covered by the privilege.

3 MR. MOXON: And I'm going to be bringing a 4 operate motion for contempt as to the failure to produce 5 other records.

6 THE COURT: You bring all the motions you 7 want.

8 MR. MOXON: I guess that would go back -- I 9 don't know did that goes back to you or -- 10 THE COURT: You don't need to tell me about 11 all these motions.

12 MR. MOXON: I'm just questioning if it goes 13 to you or Judge Schaeffer I don't know who that goes to.

14 THE COURT: Well, I am here as I 15 understand -- question we don't have an order to that 16 effect, but we're now including in addition to my 17 supervision discovery to {sprfertion to resolve all 18 {}discovery motions -- 19 MR. MOXON: Okay.

20 THE COURT: So I would assume and if I'm 21 wrong you'll have to have -- or if you're in doubt you can 22 have Judge Schaeffer answer that question -- but I would 23 assume that would also include motions for contempt. Now I 24 think that the order's going to have to be o issued from her 25 clarifying whether or not if I make a finding of contempt do 140 1 I have the authority to enforce the contempt by some penalty 2 or by way of striking pleadings, imposing a fine or even 3 incarceration.

4 MR. MOXON: Okay. Yeah. I just -- 5 THE COURT: But I -- that's a question that 6 should be answered in an order form by her since she is the 7 actual presiding judge in the case.

8 MR. MOXON: Yeah. I was under the impression 9 that the motions had to be made to her, but I just wanted to 10 see what your -- 11 THE COURT: Well, she has indicated -- at 12 least -- I waeunlt there.

13 PLF'S COUNSEL: Wement it wasn't for contempt 14 type of proceedings.

15 THE COURT: Well, that's what should be 16 clarified sno motions to comel and.

17 THE COURT: That should be clarify.

18 MR. MERRETT: Let me ask you this -- 19 THE COURT: Well, motions to comel include 20 motions for contempt.

21 PLF'S COUNSEL: But these are third parties 22 these are not parties to the lawsuit.

23 THE COURT: I'm just saying it should be 24 clarified by her it.

25 PLF'S COUNSEL: Should be, yes.

141 1 MR. MERRETT: I filed some motions for 2 protective order dealing with depositions, this deposition 3 and other depositions coming up, do I need to get coipdz of 4 those to you.

5 THE COURT: I would think so even though I 6 may not be sitting on them that's a question that she's 7 going to have to resolve. I mean, the question we had of 8 the order we have now is not even specific as to a retired 9 judge coming in it just says that the court will supervise 10 the depositions but it doesn't say which court.

11 PLF'S COUNSEL: Right.

12 THE COURT: And so I think if you're going to 13 have a dispute resolution judge in the case -- I'm not 14 saying myself -- by whoever you're going to have in here the 15 order should be fairly specific as to his authority in the 16 case. So there will be no question about it.

17 MR. MOXON: Okay. Thank you we'll suspend 18 for today.

19 MR. MERRETT: She'll read in any event.

20 21

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