> "Monica Pignotti" <pignotti@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> This was on CNN's website:

> http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/anderson.cooper.360/

> Former scientology members on what the religion is really about and
> accusations of brainwashing. Tune in at 7 p.m. ET.

> Does anyone know who will be on?

Here's the transcript, with some snipping of irrelevant material copied from http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/11/acd.01.html

Ahead on 360, Tom Cruise and the Church of Scientology keep getting e-mails from viewers wanting to know more about why they oppose psychiatry, and what happens inside the church. Tonight, current and former members speak out.

[Snip of other stories]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: It's no secret that Tom Cruise is a devoted, outspoken member of the Church of Scientology. That has not always been the case. There was a time when the subject of his religion was off limits to reporters and to interviewers. Not so now. Just ask Matt Lauer who got lectured by Cruise weeks ago on what the actors says are the evils of psychiatry.

Now, while some are surprised by the [change] in Cruise, former Scientologists insist it's really no mystery, they think it's related to his rise in the ranks of the church.

Kim Masters is a contributing writer for "Radar" magazine. She wrote a cover story this month, "The Passion of Tom Cruise." She joins me now from Los Angeles. Kim, thanks for being with us.

KIM MASTERS, RADAR: Thanks for having me.

COOPER: You know, a lot of viewers were surprised watching Tom Cruise on Oprah Winfrey, on the "Today Show," were surprised by his attitude, his condemnation of psychiatry. You talked with former Scientologists in your article. What was their explanation for his behavior?

MASTER: Their feeling is that as Tom Cruise has risen up through the level of Scientology, and he's now at the second highest level that's offered by the church, that he has reached a point where he is expected to carry the message of Scientology, and in fact, wants to carry the message of Scientology. So when he denounces psychiatry on a show like "The Today Show," that is the equivalent of doing the Lord's work.

COOPER: And their opposition to psychiatry is based on what? MASTERS: Well, you know, it's a historic thing. If you look at the writings of L. Ron Hubbard, as told to me by fallen away Scientologists, and I should say as you probably will later, that the church records any fallen away Scientologist as a very hostile adversary and said that many of the sources in our piece were liars, paid liars. But that L. Ron Hubbard said psychiatrist had been in the universe, psyche's has he called them, for a long, long time. And were the source of all the world's evil. And honestly, I don't think I'm enough of an expert in the church to know what the origin of that is.

COOPER: One message that former Scientologists who oppose the church now who are quoted in your article say is how insulated and disconnected celebrity members of the church are from the world. That one person said, you never hear bad news and you're placed in a bubble. I mean, how is that possible? These people are not trapped in isolation?

MASTERS: Well, I think they try -- they do something which is called, you know, trying to keep enthata (ph) off of their lines, which is Scientology speak for avoiding bad news. And as Tom's sister, Lee Anne, who is his publicist and a fellow Scientologist said, if you are on the Scientology staff, a member of what they called the C-org, you were not supposed to watch TV, you're not supposed to surf the web. You eat together, you live together. I think it's possible that -- I mean, all of these comments about Tom Cruise's behavior are dismissed by his sister as media fabrications and I think there's -- when -- if you want to, that you can certainly live that way.

COOPER: The Church of Scientology alleges that two people quoted in your article were paid $300,000. Were some of your sources paid by "Radar," for the story?

MASTERS: You know, honestly, I don't know what the -- what that means or what it's about. We spoke to quite a number of fallen-away Scientologists. They were on the record and as far as we were concerned, they were entitled to have their say.

COOPER: So you didn't pay anyone?

MASTERS: We certainly didn't pay anyone, no.

COOPER: Does "Radar" have $300,000.

MASTERS: Apparently, -- I think "Radar" has more than $300,00, but we didn't give it to any sources for this story.

COOPER: What surprised you most about what you learned in writing this article?

MASTERS: I guess I was surprised by the lifestyle of the staff. And I thought it was very interesting the way some of the former Scientologists, some of whom I think you're going to have on your show, could explain that what looks to the outside world like very irrational conduct and what most people, for example, would perceive as a -- a kind of an out-of-control performance on the "Today" show, in the Scientology mindset is actually a really great thing; a really wonderful thing.

His sister talked about how important it is, the work Tom is doing and how if you give your child some kind of psychiatric drug or Ritalin, you might as well give them cocaine. So, I think I was surprised by all of that.

COOPER: It's a fascinating article. It's in "Radar" this month. We're going to have a member of the Church of Scientology on at the end of the program to talk about the article. They're clearly not happy about it. Kim, we appreciate your perspective. Thanks.

MASTERS: Thank you.

COOPER: A big part of Scientology is church education and for some followers, that education begins at a pretty early age at a unique school where the students learn reading, writing, and religion. CNN's Ted Rowlands takes a look.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Long before Scientologist Jessica Rodriguez showed up next to Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes, she was educated at the Delphian School, a private boarding school, based on the teaching of Scientology founder, L. Ron Hubbard.

Delphia, a K-8 school with about 225 students, sits on 700 acres high above the rural town of Sheridan, Oregon. A former seminary, the property was purchased by Scientologists 30 years ago.

SCOTT POND, RESIDENT: In the beginning it was kind of weird: Who are they? What's this all about? But it's been around for a long time and you know, I don't know of any kind of problems or anything like that. So, they're just part of the town now.

ROWLANDS: It's part of the town that people say is still somewhat of a mystery. Through the years, celebrities like John Travolta and Lisa Marie Presley have been rumored to be in town with their children, but other than that, people here say they don't give the school much thought.

We tried to find out more about the school, but were told, there was nobody available to talk to us. We were then told to leave.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Delphian School offers a brilliant alternative to today's public education.

ROWLANDS: According to a video that's part of the schools' Web site, Delphia uses L. Ron Hubbard's teaching techniques to master the art of learning with an emphasis on reading.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How students progress from the simplest ones, to books by Thomas Payne, De Tocqueville, Dickens and Plato.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Delphia has taught me that you can teach a man to fish and he'll never hungry, but if you teach a man to learn, he can teach himself how to fish and anything else he wants to do.

ROWLANDS (on camera): According to their Web site, the school is focused on academics and not Scientology. Over the 30 years that the school has been here, it has produced some very impressive graduates.

(voice-over): Including high-tech entrepreneur Sky Dayton, who became a 20-something multi-millionaire after starting the company Earthlink. The Delphian Web site touts Dayton and other graduates and the extensive curriculum at the school. What's never mentioned is Scientology or how it fits in to what's taught here.

Ted Rowlands, CNN, Sheridan, Oregon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Up next, much more on Scientology: Two former high- ranking members tell us what happened inside the church. They talk about levels and aliens and some other surprising stuff.

Also tonight, we don't take sides on 360. We want to cover all the angles, so a current Scientologist who's been with the church for years, is going to talk about the church and some of the comments made by the former members. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, tonight we're taking a close look at the Church of Scientology and it attracts celebrities like Tom Cruise and John Travolta, but its followers come really from all walks of life: Young and old, rich and poor. We wanted to know what draws people to this particular religion. A short time ago, I talked to former church insiders, who are now very much opposed to Scientology. Michael Pattinson attempted to sue the church after leaving. His lawsuits were dismissed. Tori Christman was a follower for 30 years.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Michael, you became a Scientologist in 1973. You stayed more than 25 years. What initially attracted you to the organization? What was the appeal?

MICHAEL PATTINSON, FORMER SCIENTOLOGIST: The original appeal, Anderson, was that I had some stomach problems at the time and also on a completely unrelated matter, I happen to be gay in a very un-gay environment and so, I wanted to kind of cured of that, so to speak and I kind of thought it would be able to happen through "Dianetics" and Scientology.

COOPER: Do they -- did they tell you that they could cure you of being gay?

PATTINSON: Yes, in the books there are definitely prescriptions for Hubbard-type cures for being gay and I was relying upon that information when I went in.

COOPER: Tori, for you, it was some 30 years in the organization, What was it that brought you? Was it a spiritual longing? What was it?

TORI CHRISTMAN, FORMER SCIENTOLOGIST: It was a spiritual longing. I really wanted to help other people and I felt "Dianetics" and Scientology were able to do that.

COOPER: It's not cheap. I mean, what is -- what are you spending the money on? Are you taking classes?

CHRISTMAN: In Scientology, you have to pay for just about everything. They have a few free things to try to rope people in, but basically you pay for everything. It starts very inexpensive and builds rapidly into thousands, hundreds-of-thousands of dollars.

COOPER: Michael, you say you've spent, what? How much money?

PATTINSON: Approximately half-a-million dollars.

CHRISTMAN: Well, I know -- Yes, I would say $200,000, at least, was our inheritance we spent and more.

COOPER: And the objective is, Michael, to get clear. What does that mean?

PATTINSON: Basically, Hubbard specifies a clear as somebody who has eliminated their reactive mind, which seems to be a Hubbard invention in itself, as far as I'm concerned. And if you don't have this reactive mind, then you can apparently have full recall, no aberrations, no more sigh psychosomatic ills and things of this nature.

COOPER: So -- now Tori, you were at this very high level called C-org. What is that?

CHRISTMAN: The C-organization, Hubbard invented. It's basically his top people that work with him. They're very highly committed. They sign a billion-year contract to be part of the C-org.

COOPER: Do you know what level Tom Cruise is at?

CHRISTMAN: I know that he just did OT-7, which I did and it's a very dangerous level. I'll say that.

COOPER: Wait a minute, what is OT-7?

CHRISTMAN: OT-7 Hubbard -- remember, he said clear, where you clear your reactive mind is "Dianetics." That didn't really work. And Hubbard was a pretty good con man, so he said, let's come up with something else, "operating thaten." And these are all secret levels. And you can never know what they are, until you pay for them and are trained and get up to that level. Then you learn about it. And basically you're covered with space aliens. That's the essence.

COOPER: OK, wait a minute. So, Michael, wait, operating thatens, what is a thaten. And what do space aliens have to do with anything? PATTINSON: Well, basically the thaten is the Hubbard term for the spiritual being. And the space aliens are basically supposedly spiritual entities stuck within the body or around the body, which are supposed to get in communication with through Hubbard's Scientology processes and release them back into the atmosphere.

COOPER: You've seen Tom Cruise say there's nothing such as a chemical imbalance. They don't want people taking Prozac, Zoloft, or any form of drug for any kind of psychological issue. Why is that?

CHRISTMAN: I personally have epilepsy. And I take medication for it. And they tried to tell me I had to get off my medication. And I fought it for 30 years. But the truth is, you have to sign that Lisa clause that says you give away all of your rights to the Church of Scientology. And that is a dangerous thing.

COOPER: You said the Lisa clause, what is that?

CHRISTMAN: It's a form you sign, basically giving away your personal rights, your medical rights, your familia rights, everything to the Church of Scientology.

COOPER: As you know, both of you, Scientology says you are disgruntled members, you couldn't live up to the high ethical standards of the organization, and that's why you're speaking out. And Michael, you lodged a lawsuit against them that was dismissed alleging all sorts of things, none of which you were able to prove.

PATTINSON: That's almost the case. I had to dismiss the case in the end, because Scientology's lawyer gang bankrupted myself and my attorney in order to get out of going to trial.

COOPER: But your allegations -- I mean, you were alleging that John Travolta had seduced President Bill Clinton in order to change U.S. foreign policy to Germany and Sweden.

PATTINSON: There was a part of that in it, yes. That was true. I believe that actually did change something. I'm not sure exactly what, but I stand by the case that I filed against the Church of Scientology, definitely.

COOPER: Tori, what's the importance of having celebrities?

CHRISTMAN: Hubbard knew that celebrities have -- they have an audience that will listen to them, that -- you know, you ask anybody, Scientology, they say Tom Cruise, John Travolta. Well now, Tom Cruise, thank you, he's done some very good work for the people on the other side.

COOPER: Well, two former members. In a moment, a spokesman for the church responds to what these former members said. First, let's find out what's coming up at the top of the hour on "PAULA ZAHN NOW." Hey, Paula.

[Snip of Paula Zahn promo]

Coming up next, though, on 360 tonight, we continue to look at Church of Scientology. The church responding tonight. My interview with a man defending the faith. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM CRUISE, ACTOR: Matt, I'm asking you a question. Matt, I'm asking you a question.

MATT LAUER, TODAY SHOW: I understand there's abuse of all of these things.

CRUISE: Now, you see, here's the problem, you don't know the history of psychiatry. I do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, that was Tom Cruise on the "Today Show" several weeks ago. And in that appearance, raised a lot of eyebrows about the Church of Scientology among some people. And before the break, we heard from two former Scientologists. And here at 360 we don't take sides, cover all the angles. Tonight, we asked the church to respond, they've asked us to speak with Skip L'Heureaux. He's in Queens, New York. And is the Executive Director of Queens Federation of Churches. He's joins us on the phone.

Skip, thanks very much for being with us tonight.

SKIP L'HEUREAUX, QUEENS FEDERATION OF CHURCHES: Thank you.

COOPER: Michael Pattinson and Tori Christman, former members, say that Scientology, essentially cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars in membership over the years and never really delivered on the promises that they -- that were made to them. Do you believe them?

L'HEUREAUX: I have no way of gauging that. I do know that Scientology makes charges for its auditing. But that's done one by one, like people take courses at schools. What you pay happens from time to time, you can make decisions as to whether you go forward or not.

COOPER: And what is your relationship with the church?

L'HEUREAUX: I actually have no direct relationship with the church. I'm a United Methodist pastor. I have been working in the area of religious liberty for the past 20 years. And I have become involved and knowledgeable with some members of the church, and leadership, by reason of those concerns for religious liberty.

COOPER: These two, who not on our program, but in other articles, have made claims about -- or other former members have made claims about alleged brainwashing. When you hear that, what do you think?

L'HEUREAUX: Brainwashing is substantially discredited smear attack. In the late '80s there was a team of people trying to get the American Psychological Association to declare that a particular pathology. And after they had done papers and conferences for about a year-and-a-half, the Association took an unprecedented step of saying, not only are we not going to endorse this, but we command that you not invoke the APA with any kind of connection with your study. It's absolutely without merit.

COOPER: What do you want people to know about the Church of Scientology to know that they don't understand?

L'HEUREAUX: Well, the Church of Scientology is a new religious movement, about 55-years-old. Religions have to start somewhere. It is a group of people seeking to improve their own lives and to offer the opportunity for others to improve their lives, according to certain guidelines. Their theology is clearly different from Christian theology, but it's not completely dissimilar. They talk in terms of a soul. Their term is phaden (ph) for that. They talk in terms of spiritual devils or, you know, people who would lead you astray. And I gather that's what was mocking referred to in the previous episode as space aliens.

COOPER: Well, I think what they were referring to was sort of the creation, you know, every religion has a creation myth or testament. They were saying that of the highest reaches, that Scientology, that the creation story is based on a space alien, I guess, named Zenu or Zanu. Do you know anything about that?

L'HEUREAUX: I don't have all the details of that. But, you know, each religion has a different set of myths explaining the important things. My direct contact with, probably, at this point 200 or 300 active members of the Church of Scientology at different levels within the church hierarchy, have brought me in touch with people who are well motivated, very intelligent, work well together and seem quite enthusiastic about what they're doing.

COOPER: Skip, we appreciate you joining us and appreciate your perspective. Thanks very much.

Michael Reuss Honorary Kid

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