In article <8v255f$q8o$1@taliesin.netcom.net.uk>, "mike"

<mike@SPAMscientia.freeserveSPAM.co.uk> wrote:

> I don't read/post here often
Yes you do. You're the guy who posts here and in other newsgroups, under fake names and also as "mike". Say, have you ever staged conversations amongst yourself? Like asking yourself ans question under one name and then answering it under another?

> but below are a select few 'interesting'
> statements made by some of the more well-known anti-scientologists posting
> here.
[...] "Shoot to kill anybody suspected of being a Scientologist." Message ID:

35C4B2B1.30A8@virgin.net [...] LYING IS A SCIENTOLOGY SACRAMENT You trot out selections from the same set of quotes every couple of months. And then I trot out this response, to which you don't reply. But then in a few months you'll trot the quotes out again, I guess in the hopes a response won't be trotted out after it.

You haven't quoted the messages so people can see what you mean. And you haven't characterized the reactions to such messages. Are they well received and agreed with by group regulars and participants, or are they disagreed with and distanced from?

If you are trying to characterize the newsgroup as hateful and violent, it is very important to take a look at the REACTIONS to any messages you cite as examples of newsgroup hate.

So let's take a look at one of the messages you cite, and the reactions to it. The "Kill The Klams" message received quite a few responses. I've quoted the original message below, and then responses to it which I think are representative of the reactions of the group as a whole. Note how many of the regulars chimed in.

And note how you misquoted the message. You took a sentence fragment and changed it to make the fragment look like it was the entire sentence.

You edited out "He," which changes the advice to one person, to make it look like it is general advice to everybody.

What sparked the message? What made the poster upset? The original message, by a guy frequently accused by other critics of going over the top in his posts, was in reaction to the illegal trespassing incident by the cult on Bob Minton's property. After multiple warnings and instructions to leave, the cult did leave but quickly returned, going well onto the property again, and snooping over a fence into the backyard. Mr. Minton got his shotgun, and after more warnings, pointed it away from the illegal trespassers and shot it into the air. Police did arrive, the cult members removed themselves, and Mr. Minton was not arrested or held or his gun taken away.

So, are you characterizing the newsgroup correctly or not? Are you characterizing the quote correctly? Are you even quoting accurately?

Let's take a look at the thread:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: Roland <roland.rashleigh-berry@virgin.net>
Subject: Kill the Klams
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 19:40:49 +0100
Message-ID: <35C4B2B1.30A8@virgin.net>
I'd just like to say my little piece. And that is, Bob Minton is perfectly entitled to use deadly force against people who trespass on his property. I would APPLAUD him if he were to shoot any Scieno to kill who was trespassing on his property stone dead through the heart.

And if he killed a few -- so much the better. There would be a fewer vicious bastards in the world.

The reason, you might suppose?

Quite simple.

The Co$ agents placed a dead cat on the doorstep of Minton. The threat is quite clear. Mess around with us and that will happen to you as well. It was a clear threat againts his life.

Therefore, if any Co$ people come onto his property he should assume that they are there for the purpose of killing him.

He should shoot to kill anybody he suspects of being a Scientologist on his property.

Shoot first.

Ask questions later.

Roland ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: wulfen@NOSPAMtotal.net (Wulfen)
Message-ID: <35c4e1b1.37462392@news.total.net>
[...] Only in your opinion is he "perfectly entitled to use deadly force against people who trespass on his property". In my opinion, he isn't.

There's no reason to hurt someone who is taunting you that I can see.

Speaking generally, without evidence that a person is actively trying to kill someone (bullets flying in your direction, thrown bricks, etc), I don't see any justification for lethal force.

[...] +++ Message-ID: <hkhensonEx359K.4ru@netcom.com>
Roland goes over the top fairly often. I don't know of anyone who takes these rants seriously. Keith Henson +++ From: cultxpt@primenet.com
Message-ID: <6q2m2j$8gd$1@nnrp03.primenet.com>
If you don't withdraw this post I'll no longer consider you a fellow critic, but a nutso critic. There's no reason to kill someone for trespassing unless they are threatening physical assault themselves.

I've been in Scientology "churches" before. Do you think that once they found out I was a critic that they should have shot me? Is that the kind of world you want to live in?

+++ From: byrd@NOSPAM.acm.org (Jim Byrd)
Message-ID: <35c4da7d.36119863@news.std.com>
[...] NO NO NO. Don't be an idiot. This kind of irresponsible post just helps OSA.

Besides, people in the cult are generally very nice people, once they get loose from the mental trap they are in.

+++ From: "Albaby" <albaby@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <6q2jal$bt8$1@nnrp1.snfc21.pbi.net>
So Roland!

I can see that you need to be reported to the police.

This is a death threat.

I wonder what Bob Minton has to say about this.

+++ From: Bev <dbj1120@iag.net>
Message-ID: <35C4D5A1.52B0@iag.net>
[...] No, it wasn't a death threat. It's just Roland on an idiot binge.

[...] +++ From: mike@enturbulate.nu (Michael 'Mike' Gormez)
Message-ID: <35cfc2ec.17272008@news.wxs.nl>
[...] Have you been drinking again?

+++ From: rr@k9.dds.nl.ReMoVeThIs (Rasta Robert)
Message-ID: <35c59444.24217421@news.interstroom.nl>
[...] Uhm, Roland, take your medication now, ask questions later.

Have the Markabs been late again in delivering y'r Prozac/Zoloft?

I strongly disagree with such wild west methods. Is this the result you get from you DIY ECT OT googolplex auditing sessions?

+++ From: tilman@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr)
Message-ID: <35d9ded1.96550792@news.snafu.de>
[...] Sometimes he's a genius, sometimes he's a wacko. I really suspect he drinks.

+++ From: skanda@postoffice.pacbell.net
Message-ID: <35C56655.CF073B49@postoffice.pacbell.net>
[...] Too bad Rolands not in California, huh? His threat would qualify as a "hate crime" since it directs itself to religion.

Garry +++ From: mreid@pobox.com (Melissa Reid)
Message-ID: <mreid-0308980133220001@b02089.interl.net>
[...] It only takes one. I really wish he'd stop with this; I know he's angry, but this kind of thing should be sent to the bitbucket after the catharsis of writing it, not to a newsgroup.

+++ From: Tommy <Tommy_spoogespam@xs.net>
Message-ID: <35C541D0.5EE2@xs.net>
[...] Jeez, Roland - I know they physicaly assaulted you....but loosen your hatband. Rhetoric like that doesn't help anybody.

+++ From: rnewman@thecia.net (Ron Newman)
Message-ID: <rnewman-ya02408000R0208982338200001@enews.newsguy.com>
[...] Roland, you are seriously fucked up in the head. Go away.

Get help. Don't come back until you've got it.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ LYING IS A SCIENTOLOGY SACRAMENT -- SCIENTOLOGY IS SECRETLY A UFO CULT ASK THEM ABOUT XENU Mike O'Connor <http://www.leptonicsystems.com/>

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