Most of what follows is reposted from something I wrote on another thread here. (Hopefully I don't lose the formatting as I did there.)

Here's a viewpoint that I would like to get across to the other so- called scientologists here such as qwerty, Travis, McKean, etc. that say they are "on-topic" for posting an endless spew of anti-psych articles here.

First, as I've noted before, I am a scientologist. I only go by the following definition of a scientologist - one who betters the conditions of himself and the conditions of others. I am not so naive, however, to think that this wouldn't be a good definition for a practicing buddhist, christian, or any other religious or non-religious person who just wants to help people do better. I simply got introduced to the basic concept of helping others via scientology (without at this time getting into a discussion of what works or doesn't work, how hubbard lied or didn't lie).

By the way for you scientologists that may question the validity of my viewpoint, I've been involved with the subject for a long, long time and would wager that I've probably directly helped more people than all of you combined. Speaking in a language you'll understand ... I've got major stats for 30 years in various sectors in *direct* dissem work.

Okay, enough boring preamble. Following is basically the re-post.

There are some major out-points in your logic here about all of this spewing of anti-psych data. I have not read all the anti-psych posts due to there being so many and they are so obviously being posted one after the other at times in an effort to deluge the NG. Besides, I have most all of that data on the psychs anyway so I don't go there to re- read these things.

But, here's a point to consider. It's been mentioned that "you can't really discuss scientology without also thinking about and discussing psychiatry." Perhaps that's true, but what I've seen here is no intent to discuss these things. Most of what is posted, and yes - spewed into this NG (I use "spew" to avoid any technical definition wars in an effort to be right) - are articles and other non-personal communications. I don't see an *intention* to discuss anything about the relationships of scientology and psychiatry. And if you re-study the comm cycle, you will see many factors missing with these posts and with most subsequent commmunication that goes on about them.

Why post these things in such a manner if there is no intention at real communication, no intention to truly discuss this relationship as you put it, and no real intention for the communication to be received and duplicated. Do you really think that most of these posts are intended to create 2-way communication?? I don't think so. (And I'm talking about the articles, etc. that are spewed with no personal comm and relationship to scientology.) I could go on, but for time's sake I hope you get my point on this.

Another point on this is that if these guys posting this stuff think that they are "handling" the SPs and "evils" here, then they are wrong.

With every post that I've bothered to follow-through on, it didn't take me long to see that these postings, both the content and the manner in which they are spewed, just incite more of what the anti-psych poster hates, which is more anti-scientology. It is an incorrect way to deal with people who hate, mis-trust, or whatever term you want to put to it, the subject of scientology. I can show you the references if you like.

Pour the coals on basic purpose and take your attention off of stops or imagined stops. If the subject of scientology is to grow, it will do so because of the good done by people within it and with it. Go out and help someone if that is your purpose and intention - and don't put so much attention on the "bad." I'm certain that many a discussion could be made about all the different Hubbard writings that conflict about how to handle any real or imagined enemies. I'm contending that any *workable* tech is not in the direction of attacking critics, hating and labeling anything in it's way as evil and putting all of the attention on the psychiatrists, etc.

If you want to really discuss the relationships of scientology and psychiatry, then it should be done within a NG that is *real* communication for the purposes of *real* 2-way communication. These anti-psych posters should drop the weak attempt at the intel "tech" as it hasn't really been too effective for a long, long time. This has nothing to do with freedom of speech. That argument and these anti- psych postings too obviously assume that everyone else is stupid and can't observe for themselves what the intention really is.

I'm pretty opinionated and out-spoken about the ills of psychs myself - much abuse is caused there. I do a lot to try to help prevent the needless drugging that is apparent today. That's my opinion, with lots of personal experience and views to back it up - and right out in the open to be stomped on by someone here hehe! But in 30 years with scientology, I've never consumed myself with *stopping* things. I've always had too much of a forward thrust alone on just wanting to help people. Who gave you the false data that the way to "handle" a critic and NG is to spew anti-psych info? What policy or bulletin? Your own or some PRs idea?

How about considering the possibility that all the attention that you put on the critics, the stops, the anti-psychs instead of bettering conditions, etc. actually does more to exasperate and blow-up the situation rather than help it. You get what you put your attention on! Have fun and go out and help someone if you can, and don't insult the intelligence of critics and scientologists alike here. There are as many varying personalities and levels of intelligence among both groups that you need not sit on a high-horse and pretend you are right all the time with off-topic non-communication.

There are outlets and places for addressing the abuses of psychiatry by scientologists and non-scientologists alike - take those issues where they belong and make a concerted effort and have fun and get effective. With the manner in which you anti-psych posters treat this, you make it seem that ALL that scientology is about is anti-psych.

That is not true and creates a false picture to hide behind. It's an intended diversion and still doesn't do a good job of painting a good picture of your side of the story.

Not once did I ever help someone or explain the subject of help and scientology by the use of putting their attention on the evils of psychs, war-mongers, terrorists, the Fighting Irish (american football joke), etc. In fact, one of the worst introductions I did to the subject was when I sent a CCHR flyer about the evils of psychs to a really great woman who wanted some help. You cannot lead with a negative, and CCHR is not what scientology is all about and you are confusing the two. (I say this without wanting to take the time to discuss the inevitable argument of all the anti-psych statements by hubbard and how CCHR was created by the church.) This is a NG about scientology, the subject and church itself - *not* CCHR and psychiatry abuses in themselves. Try not to confuse the two with anti-psych postings that aren't in context with the NG.

Quite honestly, speaking for myself and a few others, these anti-psych impersonal, superficial posts and the rote, taken-out-of-a-book postings by whoever claims to be church public relations, shows a real lack of education in what the truly valuable aspects of the subject is all about - and is a poor strategy at best. What is your strat plan anyway? The posts accomplish nothing and make the posters look rather foolish ... both to a critic as well as to a trained, experienced-in- helping-others scientologist.

Downstats are internally caused. Not because of what the psychs are doing or what critics are saying. My opinion (or is it more than opinion?).

Alfred E. Noumenon "What, me worry?"

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