In article <9n1cfa.3vvh8vn.1@Remember_Gabriella_Bramucci.h637fef44.invalid>, Michael says...

>
>Whom of the many scientology related deaths did touch you the most? In my
>case is was Susan Meister and how her family was harassed. Which was
>yours?
>
>Mike
This is a hard decision to make because I have known so many.

The first to come to mind was Diane Colletto, perhaps because I learned of her death first. Being a Scientologist at the time, I was particularly disturbed by the fact that she was murdered by her "OT" husband, John. I wondered how such a horrible and senseless thing could have been done by another Scientologist.

Bobby Schaffner, Al Crivello, Sally Esterman and Yvonne Jentzsch are four other Scientologists whom I knew personally. During 1983 I shared an office in the AOLA building with Bobby, so I came to know him quite well. It saddened me greatly knowing that he left his young daughter, Cara, fatherless.

Warrior - Sunshine disinfects See http://warrior.offlines.org/


From: "roger gonnet" <roger.gonnet@worldnet.fr>
Subject: Re: Which dead did touch you the most
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 09:38:45 +0200
Message-ID: <9n20l8$7lo$10@news4.isdnet.net>

Warrior <warrior@entheta.net> a écrit dans le message :

9n187r02mam@drn.newsguy.com...

> In article
<9n1cfa.3vvh8vn.1@Remember_Gabriella_Bramucci.h637fef44.invalid>, > Michael says...
> >
> >Whom of the many scientology related deaths did touch you the most? In my
> >case is was Susan Meister and how her family was harassed. Which was
> >yours?
> >
> >Mike
>
> This is a hard decision to make because I have known so many.
>
> The first to come to mind was Diane Colletto, perhaps because I
> learned of her death first. Being a Scientologist at the time,
> I was particularly disturbed by the fact that she was murdered
> by her "OT" husband, John. I wondered how such a horrible and
> senseless thing could have been done by another Scientologist.
>
> Bobby Schaffner, Al Crivello, Sally Esterman and Yvonne Jentzsch
> are four other Scientologists whom I knew personally. During
> 1983 I shared an office in the AOLA building with Bobby, so I
> came to know him quite well. It saddened me greatly knowing
> that he left his young daughter, Cara, fatherless.
The one I regret most was a young woman I had "handled" as an HCO one month before she died tragically, after having left her husband and children (scientology was instrumental in this divorce). The last time I saw her, she had just said that she was very satisfied to have found a job (social worker), and then, I went really brainwashed and answered her that such job was suppressive since she was going to help lowstats! Minutes later, I realized what a really stupid hubbardism I had uttered, and decided to call her back after the course hours, but she left before I could say how sorry I was of my stupid utterance. I missed her, and never gave my message.

I'm still also much touched by the ones becoming mad for life. Imagine, your best friends, or brother or wife etc, often intelligent people, people you can have yourself brought to scientology, and all of a sudden, you leave, and they do no longer speak to you, because you are supposedly an SP, while you could boast to be much more enlightened than they are?

Scientology : a way to cut you communication, your affinity, and your understanding of everyone, including scientologists.

roger





Message-ID: <3B9426CB.652E9B78@home.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 17:56:43 -0700
From: barb <bwarr1@home.com>
Subject: Re: Which dead did touch you the most
"Michael 'Mike' Gormez - www.taxexemptchildabuse.net" wrote:

>
> Whom of the many scientology related deaths did touch you the most? I my
> case is was Susan Meister and how her family was harassed. Which was
> yours?
>
> Mike
> --
> "I regret they appointed us their executioners. There are so many other pleasant things to do."
> -- L. Ron Hubbard in an LRH OODs item of 12 November 1968. Reissued as OSA Network Order #7 on
> 10 December 1987. -- http://www.b-org.demon.nl/scn/deaths/
I'd have to say the one that sticks in my mind the most was the clam who threw his twin babies off a cliff so he could afford the bridge.

-- Barb Chaplain, ARSCC http://members.home.net/bwarr1/index.htm http://www.geocities.com/bwarr_2000/ mirror site "Every week, every month, every year, every decade and now every century, Scientology does weird and stupid things to damage its own reputation."

-Steve Zadarnowski "Comparing Scientology to a motorcycle gang is a gross, unpardonable insult to bikers everywhere. Even at our worst, we are never as bad as Scientology."

-ex-member, Thunderclouds motorcycle "club"

From: "Elizabeth Ann Cox" <elizanncox@chesapeake.net>
Subject: Re: Which dead did touch you the most
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 23:28:18 -0400
Message-ID: <tp8ine6cigd71f@corp.supernews.com>
I agree with Rod, I actually sat here and cried when I read that. Such a waste of a life. So many ripples from the end of that life. We often forget how many people one person touches. While Noah is dead because of the greed of the cult, he is remembered for what they took not only from him, but from those who loved him. I never knew him of course, but the memory of how he was destroyed by the cult lingers on.
Elizabeth Ann Cox aka, Bunnyann Doubt is not a crime; simply a reasonable response to tyranny!
Rod Keller <rkeller@netaxs.com> wrote in message news:9n192u$304@netaxs.com...

> Michael 'Mike' Gormez - www.taxexemptchildabuse.net (mgormez@chello.nl)
wrote:

> : Whom of the many scientology related deaths did touch you the most? I my
> : case is was Susan Meister and how her family was harassed. Which was
> : yours?
>
> I think Noah Lottick, because of the desperation of clinging to his last
> few dollars as he threw himself out the window.
>
> --
> Rod Keller / rkeller@voicenet.com / Irresponsible Publisher / Black Hat #1
> Expert of the Toilet / CWPD Mouthpiece / Shelly Thompson in Drag
> The Lerma Apologist / Merchant of Chaos / Vision of Destruction
> Bigot of Mystery / OSA Patsy / Quasi-Scieno / Mental Bully / Killer Rod


From: Ted Mayett <ted-mayett@skylink.net>
Subject: Re: Which dead did touch you the most
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 18:20:26 -0700
Message-ID: <j2a8ptghegfb9keimj01h7ip2hj28e4egt@4ax.com>
On Tue, 04 Sep 2001 01:58:02 +0200, Michael 'Mike' Gormez - www.taxexemptchildabuse.net <mgormez@chello.nl> wrote:

>Whom of the many scientology related deaths did touch you the most? I my
>case is was Susan Meister and how her family was harassed. Which was
>yours?
>
With me it was Konrad Aigner.

http://cisar.org/konrad.htm I was working away on my cd's and this one hit me hard, I had to stop working a few days from it. At first they were only files to me, not names or anything, not people. Mike Gormez pointed out that Konrad should get his own directory on the CD (thanks Mike). Suddenly it all became real to me at that point. And it was Konrad who struck me the hardest. In fact, even with space being so precious on a CD, I included a file called stern.rm, only because it dealt with Konrad Aigner.

"Narrator: A two hour drive from Munich. The farm house lies somewhat off the road. In the front garden, across from the front door, stands a small devotional picture, with red roses, and candle, and a photo of Konrad. He died this past summer, after he lie in a coma for three weeks. The 43-year-old was a Scientologist. Today his family is still puzzled by the cause of Konrad's death, who outwardly appeared hale and hearty."

>10 December 1987. -- http://www.b-org.demon.nl/scn/deaths/

Subject: Re: Which dead did touch you the most
From: Kristi Wachter <humanrights@racerrecords.com>
Message-ID: <3b942c98$1@news2.lightlink.com>
Date: 3 Sep 2001 21:21:28 -0400
Michael 'Mike' Gormez - www.taxexemptchildabuse.net <mgormez@chello.nl> writes:

>Whom of the many scientology related deaths did touch you the most? I my
>case is was Susan Meister and how her family was harassed. Which was
>yours?
They all affect me deeply, but perhaps the one that touches me the most is Rodney Rimando, because he was from the San Francisco Bay Area and because he was so young.

His mother sought justice (I think with a wrongful death lawsuit), and Scientology lied about the case to the IRS, claiming that she didn't really believe Scientology was responsible for Rodney's death.

Kristi -- Kristi Wachter the activist formerly known as "Jour" (before $cientology outed me) If I am not who you say I am, then you are not who you think you are.

- James Baldwin I think $cientology is hurting people and breaking the law, and I want them to stop it. See http://www.scientology-lies.com for more.

Message-ID: <9n2lfv.3vvgnln.1@Remember_Gabriella_Bramucci.hfb8b80a0.invalid>
From: Michael 'Mike' Gormez - www.taxexemptchildabuse.net <mgormez@chello.nl>
Subject: Re: Which dead did touch you the most
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 13:38:06 +0200
Organization: Scientology is a child abusing industry: don't let them abuse your kid.
In article <3b942c98$1@news2.lightlink.com>, Kristi Wachter <humanrights@racerrecords.com> wrote:

>They all affect me deeply, but perhaps the one that touches me the most is
>Rodney Rimando, because he was from the San Francisco Bay Area and because
>he was so young.
>
>His mother sought justice (I think with a wrongful death lawsuit), and
>Scientology lied about the case to the IRS, claiming that she didn't
>really believe Scientology was responsible for Rodney's death.

Yes, the mother of Rodney initiated legal proceedings. Note that Ken Hoden is mentioned in the suit.

http://scn.martinobrien.com/ABUSE/MIXED2/RODN01.HTM Woman claims Scientologists drove son to suicide UPI 26.11.1987 By LINDA RAPATTONI A woman is seeking $6 million from the Church of Scientology, claiming the church drove her son to kill himself by attempting to destroy their relationship.

In her Superior Court suit filed Wednesday, Irene Marshall said church officials ''imposed certain psychologically coercive techniques'' in their efforts to destroy the close relationship she had with her son, Pedro Rimando.

Those efforts, Marshall claims, drove her 22-year-old son to leap off the sixth floor of a church-owned building in Hollywood on Nov. 25, 1986.

The suit charges the church, the Rev. Ken Hoden and J. Porter with wrongful death, intentional infliction of emotional distress leading to suicide, negligence and outrageous conduct.

A spokesman for the church said church officials had not seen a copy of the suit.

After Rimando graduated from high school in 1984, he experienced ''inner conflicts, was uncertain, confused and unhappy with himself because he believed that his life lacked purpose, direction and meaning,'' the suit said.

Officials of the Church of Scientology ''held themselves out as particularly competent to provide the decedent with personal and spiritual guidance'' to resolve his troubles, the suit said.

Instead of offering such guidance, the church sought ''to exploit for power, labor and money (Rimando's) pre-existing emotional vulnerabilities and inner conflicts,'' the suit said It said the church isolated her son, prevented him from getting adequate sleep and induced fear and guilt, creating ''deeply divisive inner conflicts within decedent which sought to undermine and attack decedent's bond with and love for plaintiffs, particularly his mother.'' Rimando moved from San Jose to Los Angeles in May 1986, working ''18 hours a day'' on church projects for $23 a week and for room and board at the church-owned building in Hollywood, the suit said.

His mother visited him for 20 minutes on Nov. 22 and noticed that he ''appeared physically thin and unkept'' and tried to persuade him to leave the church, the suit said.

Three days later, Rimando ''threw himself'' off the sixth floor of the building where he lived.

The suit, filed by San Francisco lawyer Ford Greene, seeks $1 million in general damages, $5 million in punitive damages and unspecified special damages.
===
Mike -- Scientology & Dianetics Tax-exempt child abuse and neglect?

www.taxexemptchildabuse.net Message-ID: <9n6n77.3vvfgml.1@Remember_Gabriella_Bramucci.h3040a98b.invalid>
From: Michael 'Mike' Gormez - www.taxexemptchildabuse.net <mgormez@chello.nl>
Subject: Re: Which dead did touch you the most
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 02:32:06 +0200
Organization: Scientology is a child abusing industry: don't let them abuse your kid.
In article <9n5uhf$40h$3@216.155.33.129>, LronsScam <not@here.now> wrote:

>>UPI 26.11.1987
>>
>>By LINDA RAPATTONI
>>
>SNIP
>
>> The suit, filed by San Francisco lawyer Ford Greene, seeks $1 million in
>>general damages, $5 million in punitive damages and unspecified special
>>damages.
>
>
>Whatever happened to the suit?
"The suit was never served and was voluntarily dismissed with prejudice."

That's what Scientology told the IRS in her tax exemption application,

If you really want to shiver, read this short flyer. The scieno's lied repeatedly about this death. It stinks.

http://www.scientology-lies.com/fliers/rodney.html
Mike -- Scientology & Dianetics Tax-exempt child abuse and neglect?

www.taxexemptchildabuse.net From: LronsScam <not@here.now>
Subject: Re: Which dead did touch you the most
Date: 4 Sep 2001 01:46:36 GMT
Message-ID: <9n1bps$bkr$0@216.155.33.14>
The addy of Michael 'Mike' Gormez - www.taxexemptchildabuse.net <mgormez@chello.nl>, In article ID <9n1cfa.3vvh8vn.1@Remember_Gabriella_Bramucci.h637fef44.invalid>, On or about Tue, 04 Sep 2001 01:58:02 +0200, In this thy group <alt.religion.scientology> cometh;

Michael 'Mike' Gormez - www.taxexemptchildabuse.net says...

>Whom of the many scientology related deaths did touch you the most? I my
>case is was Susan Meister and how her family was harassed. Which was
>yours?


Besides the obvious one of Lisa McPherson, Quentin Hubbard touched me the most.

Can you imagine being the son of this madman? Claiming to be a demigod when you know him to be a crazy loon? And having this massive amount of pressure on you to be some perfect child -- as defined by a madman!!... Damn, my heart goes out to this guy. May he rest in peace.

But for obvious reasons you can't ignore what happened to Lisa M. Hers was one of the first Scn'gy deaths that was documented by Scn'gsts -- and the reports of the last three days of her life are still missing. I can only imagine what they contain.

Message-ID: <3B943AC0.188C@mpinet.net>
From: Beverly Rice <dbj1120@mpinet.net>
Subject: Re: Which dead did touch you the most
Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing
X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 02:18:13 GMT
Michael 'Mike' Gormez - www.taxexemptchildabuse.net wrote:

> Whom of the many scientology related deaths did touch you the most? I my
> case is was Susan Meister and how her family was harassed. Which was
> yours?
Noah Lottick . . .

I met his parents and CW, my heart literally broke for their grief, they are wonderful people and the disgusting treatment they get by Co$ is indicitive of the type of heart the organization has for humanity in general.
The death of Phillip Gayle . .

although I did not see it listed, maybe I missed it in your website or you have reasons for not including him.

I knew of him via the Co$ Applied Scholastics Front school I worked at . . .

always pushing for examples of the effectiveness of LRH technology and ethics . . .

he was promoted in The Delphian (from Delphi Academy) which I received copies of . . .

and also in an advertising blurb re Applied Scholastics and Delphi Academy.

Also, he was used by his mother, who was at the time, a high official with the CCHR, another Co$ Front Group that pushed it's agenda against "The Psyches" and how terrible they are, in an article in the paper re the benefits of how being raised in Co$ and with LRH tech etc is for children.

He killed himself on LRH's birthday.

This will not have significance for those outside of the Co$ who do ~NOT~ understand "The Birthday Game" and the competition between orgs and Co$ Front Groups such as Applied Scholastics to rack up "stats for Ron" in competition with each other.

There is a lot of pressure put on staff, and in the schools, I saw it first had, pressure on the students to produce!!!

The value of the child becomes their ability to produce stats.

Maybe Philip was tired of being a stat . . .

and having been conditioned all his life that Ron's Birthday is the time of real stat push . . .

decided this year, for "The Birthday Game" he would give Ron a final stat.
Also, the children that were thrown off the cliff by their father, they were completely helpless victims.
I guess, though, all of them . . .

because they are all people who put complete trust and belief in the lies of the Co$ when Co$ says they make the able more able . . .

and only show successes . . .

and never admit to any failures . . .

and promise giant gains and wins in life . . .

when they have never really even delivered on any of their promises in real life.

Betrayal of Trust . . .

but that is key to Co$.

ARC = As-Ising the Real Co$, Beverly From: hkhenson@home.com (Keith Henson)
Subject: Re: Which dead did touch you the most
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 16:53:22 GMT
Organization: Temple of At'L'An
Message-ID: <3b9605e5.84835116@news2.lightlink.com>
On Tue, 04 Sep 2001 13:38:25 +0200, Michael 'Mike' Gormez - www.taxexemptchildabuse.net <mgormez@chello.nl> wrote:

>In article <3B943AC0.188C@mpinet.net>, Beverly Rice <dbj1120@mpinet.net>
>wrote:
>
>>The death of Phillip Gayle . .
>>
>>although I did not see it listed, maybe I missed it in your
>>website or you have reasons for not including him.
>
>On 5/1/99 after having read "Death of a 'Nethead" (April 29-May 5)
>by Mark Ebner I did remove him off my page.
>http://www.newtimesla.com/issues/1999-04-29/feature3.html/page1.html
>
>I can't maintain with good conscience that scientology doctrine was
>responsible for this death despite the date chosen by Phil.
I recognize there is a difference of opinion on this one, but the way you state it I would say Phillip's death was a result of "scientology doctrine." Phillip needed mental health services for depression and he was conditioned against that no matter how much he rejected scientology at the rational level.

Does anyone know if Phillip's mother is still involved with CCHR?

Keith Henson Message-ID: <3B944985.CD6B9A13@fornikulture.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 23:24:53 -0400
From: Mike Krotz <M_K@fornikulture.com>
Subject: Re: Which dead did touch you the most
Gregor Wisner. I had met Gregor briefly once, a couple of years ago. I am close to some of his friends. His death was unneccessary, and $cientology's failure to accept modern practices and medicines that could have helped him contributed to that.

His friends are still working to come to terms with his death this past January. It was especially hard on his girlfriend Tracey, as his birthday just passed on August 19th. He would have been 28.

What especially outraged me was that his father, Narconon spokesperson R. Michael Wisner, did not even attend his son's funeral.

MK "Michael 'Mike' Gormez - www.taxexemptchildabuse.net" wrote:

> Whom of the many scientology related deaths did touch you the most? I my
> case is was Susan Meister and how her family was harassed. Which was
> yours?
>
> Mike
> --
> "I regret they appointed us their executioners. There are so many other pleasant things to do."
> -- L. Ron Hubbard in an LRH OODs item of 12 November 1968. Reissued as OSA Network Order #7 on
> 10 December 1987. -- http://www.b-org.demon.nl/scn/deaths/

From: hkhenson@home.com (Keith Henson)
Subject: Re: Which dead did touch you the most
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 06:30:13 GMT
Organization: Temple of At'L'An
Message-ID: <3b9b7441.47545749@news2.lightlink.com>
On Tue, 04 Sep 2001 01:58:02 +0200, Michael 'Mike' Gormez - www.taxexemptchildabuse.net <mgormez@chello.nl> wrote:

>Whom of the many scientology related deaths did touch you the most? I my
>case is was Susan Meister and how her family was harassed. Which was
>yours?
None of them are easy to take. Let me pick Roxanne Friend. Kidnapped and driven from California to Clearwater, locked up where she pled to be let go for weeks, and all the time they were insisting she needed more auditing while the cancer spread inside.

Keith Henson
From: "Starshadow" <starshadowis@home.com>
Subject: Re: Which dead did touch you the most
Organization: All Your Ron Are Belong To Us
Message-ID: <lW5l7.446425$p33.8517699@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 14:54:09 GMT
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 "Michael 'Mike' Gormez - www.taxexemptchildabuse.net"

<mgormez@chello.nl> wrote in message news:9n1cfa.3vvh8vn.1@Remember_Gabriella_Bramucci.h637fef44.invalid...

> Whom of the many scientology related deaths did touch you the most?
> I my case is was Susan Meister and how her family was harassed.
> Which was yours?
>
> Mike
> --
> "I regret they appointed us their executioners. There are so many
> other pleasant things to do." -- L. Ron Hubbard in an LRH OODs
> item of 12 November 1968. Reissued as OSA Network Order #7 on 10
> December 1987. -- http://www.b-org.demon.nl/scn/deaths/
There are so many--Lisa McPherson wound up being the first I really heard of and her last days spent pounding on her death cell trying to get out, it's still unfathomable to me how anyone could have found her death "accidental". Roxanne Friend, whom I remember seeing on Sally Jessy Raphael before she died a death preventable if she'd gotten treatment. Noah Lottick, jumping with his last few dollars clutched in his hand. Quentin Hubbard. Susan Meisner. All of them someone's children, all of them dead so needlessly. There are so many, that Lisa stands for them in my mind, because she died not so long after I'd found this newsgroup and was finding out how much worse the abuses were than I had dreamed.

And all the babies and children who died needlessly and all the children growing up in an armed camp, made to labor for their meagre living and live without love and told they are lucky to be there.

If I have to pick just one, Lisa is standing for all of them.
- -- Bright Blessings, Starshadow, KoX, SP4 with clam cluster, Official Wiccan Chaplain ARSCC(wdne) "Hubbard is a dead fat fraud who started a "religion" to make money, and Miscavige is a wheezing dwarf who makes insane outbursts about public buggery in court. There are no OTs , and Xenu rules." That should be good for -25 stats points, right OSA?

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