Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology From: dennis.l.erlich@support.com Subject: THE RIGHT TO BE LEFT Message-ID: <9507261719.0OC0E03@support.com> References: <1995Jul26.184803.12784@llyene.jpl.nasa.gov> Organization: L.A. Valley College Public BBS (818)985-7150 X-Mailer: TBBS/PIMP v3.35 Distribution: world Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 17:19:17 -0700 Lines: 154 anon2c9e@nyx10.cs.du.edu (henry) Me: > And I'm not up on current jurisdiction. I'm talking about > practice. If cops of any jurisdiction know that children are > being abused, they will find some way to get in the door. Aytch: >yep. still, i think they ought to wait until the child abuser, >or cult leader child-molester is, say, out jogging, and bust him >with as little bloodshed as possible, without subjecting children >to the unnecessary trauma of a bust. Totally agreed. >children often identify strongly with their abusers, and even >if their abuser is so despicable and loathesome that any sane >human would be revolted by the crimes committed, the child >would suffer from a 'kick the doors in and shoot everything in >sight' style raid. this kind of rambo bullshit is for amateurs >and loose cannons. Dealing with fanaticism is different from dealing with other types of criminals. Law enforcement will come up to speed. You just watch. >actually, as much as i hate to say it, that loser hillel is right >on this one. many if not most of the reasons for the BATF raid >were completely invalid. for example, the issue of the 'hellfire >trigger.' koresh kultists had many assault rifles fitted with this >nifty gadget, which repeatedly pulls the trigger of your weapon. > >the legal definition of a machine-gun hinges on the notion of >how many bullets the gun can fire with a single pull of the trigger. >the 'hellfire' pulls your trigger repeatedly, amounting to the >same firepower as a machine-gun but technically entirely within >the law. WTF difference does it make? >the BATF is an organization run by lunatics and idiots and ought >to be disbanded. they were the last organization imaginable to >be called in to a very sensitive issue like the koresh case. Someone had to do something. >the BATF repeatedly ignored statements by experts on cults and on >religious fanatics and hostage situations, insisting that koresh >was simply a kon man who'd kave in under superior pressure. It's hard for *anyone* to understand the kind of control a Koresh or Miscarriage has on his followers. >instead of listening to sense, and letting koresh talk to the >bible experts he repeatedly pleaded to speak with, the BATF >created Koresh created the situation. BATF may have bungled it, but Koresh was the author of his own (and his followers) demise. >EXACTLY the apocalyptic situation koresh himself predicted, >proving koresh right to his kultists, and virtually guaranteeing >a mass suicide. The outcome was inevitable. As soon as I saw the standoff begin, I knew it. >cult experts warned the BATF and FBI about this, but the fools >didn't listen. they deliberately ignored their own experts and >instead played cowboy, and as a result innocents and children >died unnecessarily. negligent murder. Perhaps. But the blame goes to Koresh. Hopefully the costly learning experience will be useful to law enforcement. It better be. >precisely, fucker. the hillel is right on this one. the >ATF wanted to play EEEEEE-vill cult-buster, and seized on >the most dumb-ass excuse an idiot could think of. guns weren't >the issue. the issue was the cruel and vicious abuse koresh inflicted >on his deluded followers. Correct. But hindsight. >these bastards didn't give a shit about the HUMAN BEINGS who >were being systematically raped and abused by the cult. they >wanted to grandstand. they focussed on hardware. You know their minds and intentions? >with attitudes like this from the government, NO WONDER there >are militias opposed to the government. > > Fairly, schmarely. The person who gets caught breaking the > law always points the finger at the cops for catching him and > not somebody else. > >yeah, true. blaming the people who want to destroy these cults, >screaming 'persecution' and 'nazi' and all that jive, is a >long-recognized tactic of the revealed criminal. > >this is actually true. the ATF acted like a bunch of drunken >thugs. the trial of the few poor victims who managed to survive >their rampage was a mockery. the BATF ought to be destroyed. No opinion. >any further cult-busting raids ought to be conducted in a >professional and sensitive manner, with full recognition of >the very delicate nature of such negotiations and a respect >for human life. Agreed. >anyone, say, raiding scientology churches throughout the world >to shut the whole scam down ought to be fully educated on >scientology and be required to have read all of hubbard's ravings, >to understand the psychology of cult-think. Wouldn't be a bad idea. >>I also learned that >>the the government used a flammable gas in the hearings. > > Not inflamable. Able to be burned, but not enough to cause > (start or greatly help) the blaze. > >true. CS gas doesn't explode. it doesn't really help much >and was probably a bad idea that virtually guaranteed another >Jonestown, but CS gas don't explode. people who rant about this >shit ought to learn the laws of physics. > >>I did >>not know that the fire fighters were delayed for 20 minutes by >>the FBI. > > Fire should have been on scene. That was dumb. Not > *necessarily* criminal. > >i'd say criminal negligence myself. i'd even go so far as to >say that they deliberately let the place burn, so as to avoid >witnesses. then they criminally harassed and prosecuted anyone >who managed to survive their mass murder. Whoa. If you blame Koresh for the mass murder and blame the BATF and FBI for assisting, I'll agree. +--------------------------------------+ Rev. Dennis L Erlich * * the inFormer * * dennis.l.erlich@support.com + inForm@primenet.com "tar baby"