Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: dennis.l.erlich@support.com
Subject: ANDY GREENBERG
Message-ID: <9509180931.0DDAU00@support.com>
Organization: L.A. Valley College Public BBS (818)985-7150
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Distribution: world
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 95 09:31:00 -0700
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henri@netcom.com (henry)

>Andrew C. Greenberg <werdna@gate.net> wrote:
>If I have any advice to give, and I certainly have this bias, it is my
>firm and absolute conviction that the church critics are continuing to
>shoot themselves in the foot by persisting in this ludicrous fiction that
>the publication of these documents is somehow necessary to their cause and

Aytch:
>YES GOD DAMMIT!  this is the very core of why i'm pissed at you.
>
>you piously profess ignorance of the use of fair sources, or
>the best evidence available, in rendering informed speech effective.
>
>these documents are not publicly available to those who need
>them to research this cult, and it was only after arnie's
>posting of the material that it was widely available for
>archival purposes, for research and for quotation.
>
>HOW CAN WE QUOTE THE GODDAMN THINGS IF WE DON'T HAVE THEM?
>
>HOW CAN WE HAVE THEM IF THEY ARE NOT PUBLISHED BY SOMEONE?
>
>that it is permitted under some amorphous sense of civil liberties.  I
>
>amorphous my ass.  clear-cut and obvious right to information
>needed for any informed discussion is more like it.
>
>admonish all the readers to consider that phrase I noted earlier:
>
>COPYRIGHT PROTECTS ONLY THE EXPRESSION OF AN IDEA AND NOT THE IDEA ITSELF.
>
>yes, you keep saying that.  COPYRIGHT PROTECTS ONLY THE RIGHT TO
>BENEFIT FROM AN IDEA AND NOT THE RIGHT TO KEEP IT SECRET AND
>USE IT AS A BAIT-AND-SWITCH FRAUD.
>
>Duh?  Remember the internet?  That liberty tree -- that bastion of free
>speech and freedom.  USE THE SOURCE, GUYS.  Formulate your attack by
>
>THE SOURCE, hubbard's 'scripture' and HCOPLs, which are at
>the very core of the controversy, is exactly what we need
>to use.
>
>reasoning it out here.  Do it fairly and squarely, to the eternal chagrin
>of the CoS.  Dare them to come out legally after you -- if you do it
>right, they will lose in each instance.  Dare them to reply in kind -- if
>you do it right, they will lose even moreso. And bring that assault
>public.
>
>this is precisely the purpose served by the posting of the fishman
>affidavit.  that one action set in motion a chain of events which
>has gotten us more media coverage than any newsgroup in history.
>
>deny that.  deny its effectiveness.  the right to free speech
>without the use of first sources to prove one's speech limits
>one to ineffective and impotent speech when the basis for
>informed discussion is hidden by copyright swindles.
>
>the right to free speech is the right to speak effectively.
>the reason arnie was raided is that his speech _was_ effective.
>
>Andy Greenberg
>
>h
 
    Well stated, Aytch.  
    
            +--------------------------------------+
           Rev. Dennis L Erlich  * * the inFormer * *
      dennis.l.erlich@support.com  +  inForm@primenet.com
                           "tar baby"