Path: rambo.bobo.net!xs4all!xs4all!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news.stanford.edu!newsfeed.concentric.net!207.155.183.80.MISMATCH!global-news-master From: inFormer@informer.org (Rev Dennis Erlich) Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: Re: "Shattered" minds Date: 21 Nov 1998 12:33:02 PST Organization: inFormer Ministry [a 501(c)3 non-profit, religious organization] "... in service of cult victims and their families." Lines: 68 Message-ID: <366021c8.14427585@news.concentric.net> References: <36434818.32145259@news.tiac.net> <36526d02.43779474@news.tiac.net> <71ur44$n4n@enews2.newsguy.com> <3654234e.33527137@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <3655d896.2083312@news.concentric.net> <733ojd$kn@enews1.newsguy.com> <734o85$951@enews3.newsguy.com> <365c2152.3961610@news.concentric.net> <73714t$8ea@enews2.newsguy.com> Reply-To: informer@informer.org NNTP-Posting-Host: ts035d13.lax-ca.concentric.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 X-No-Archive: yes Xref: rambo.bobo.net alt.religion.scientology:146527 "Rebecca Hartong" : >>>The punishment would seem to be largely self-imposed. yhn >> Much as the rape victim's punishment is self-imposed by being in >>those circumstances, and then having the nerve to say "no!" rebecca >No. In this scenario, the self-imposed punishment would be the inability to >get over the psychological damage cause by the rape *after* it had occurred. >It would be the constant mental replaying of the rape scene in the victim's >mind. This sort of self-imposed punishment isn't the rape victim's "fault", >by the way. Ah, the famous "Get Over It" therapy of Dr. Tuffluv! I've heard lots about this. Could you cite any studies that show this therapy has proven safe and effective for recovering cultists? No. But you still recommend it for treatment of that "not so fresh feeling" we exers seem to be left with? >At any rate, your comparison of your Scientology experience to what a rape >victim goes through is most offensive. Sorry, it was not meant to be. I have never forced myself on anyone. But I do have some close women friends who have been raped. I'd say there are similarities, even if it offends you, Rebecca. And I never thought you'd stoop to negating my argument simply because it might offend someone. That's some pretty weak shit. >You joined Scientology of your own >free will. And the date-rape victim went with the rapist of her own free will. >You stayed with it for --what?-- something around 12 years. She got drunk, making herself more vulnerable. And stayed while the making out was progressing to petting. >When you'd finally had enough, you quit. When she finally realizes that he is going to go on with or without her agreement or permission, she struggles, and tries to get away. He physically restrains her. He violates her. This story accurately describes Lisa McPherson's experience in the cult. Or the people at Jonestown. >There is no similarity between >your voluntary participation in Scientology and the completely involuntary >violation a rape victim experiences. Whatever you say. You're the expert. I assume you have been raped ~and~ have been in a cult. Or perhaps you have conducted and/or read a number studies of rape vs cult victims. Hmm? Don't listen to us trying to explain what it's like. You know better. I'm so sure. Rev Dennis Erlich * * the inFormer * *