Path: rambo.bobo.net!xs4all!xs4all!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.concentric.net!207.155.183.80.MISMATCH!global-news-master From: inFormer@informer.org (Rev Dennis Erlich) Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: Re: "Shattered" minds Date: 22 Nov 1998 20:30:16 PST Organization: inFormer Ministry [a 501(c)3 non-profit, religious organization] "... in service of cult victims and their families." Lines: 91 Message-ID: <365ddd6c.6373475@news.concentric.net> References: <36526d02.43779474@news.tiac.net> <71ur44$n4n@enews2.newsguy.com> <3654234e.33527137@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <3655d896.2083312@news.concentric.net> <733ojd$kn@enews1.newsguy.com> <7348qn$356@enews3.newsguy.com> <7353uf$fec$1@nnrp03.primenet.com> <736evf$7ae@enews1.newsguy.com> <738cdl$gcq$1@nnrp02.primenet.com> <739373$3bn@enews3.newsguy.com> <73a1g0$p0t$1@nnrp03.primenet.com> <73adpk$5ni@enews2.newsguy.com> Reply-To: informer@informer.org NNTP-Posting-Host: ts038d21.lax-ca.concentric.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 X-No-Archive: yes Xref: rambo.bobo.net alt.religion.scientology:146901 "Rebecca Hartong" : >Eliminating Scientology isn't going to prevent wrong and immoral >decisions from being made. This is a real strawman. No one wants to outlaw or eliminate it. We just want it properly labeled >Those who would have become vicious >Scientologists will instead become vicious Amway salesmen. Scn teaches ruthlessness. It is in their most basic policy. They'd rather have you dead than incapable. >I do understand that you believe Scientology makes people who would have >otherwise been perfectly normal into heartless killers. I disagree. This is reductio ad absurdum. But clearly, people can be made to harm each other when placed in circumstances rife with authority. >And that, of course, is really the distinguishing factor. In the United >States we're permitted to make all sorts of silly choices for ourselves as >long as those choices don't endanger others. The presumption is that >mentally sound adults are capable of making these choices for themselves. I >like it that way. And screw anyone stupid enuf to be taken by predators. Let them learn their lesson and getoverit. Otherwise society is better off without them. >Scientologists do not live in a vacuum Wow. This shows real ignorance of what it's like to be in a cult. >and neither, imo, are they brainwashed zombies who are unable to tell right >from wrong. That is precisely what they are, in relation to their 100% standard application of Elrong's words. Why do you think they need Cramming Officers or Ethics Officers, if not to overwhelm their ability to think critically about right and rong. >I think that almost every one of us reading a.r.s. right >now--Scientologist and critic alike--could come to agreement on most of the >big issues regarding right and wrong. But not those issues that relate to scieno tek and policy. >>It is this culture/organization/value set/"church" that is ultimately the >>dangerous enemy. You seem to be assuming that we all share some >>core set of values that tells us what is right or wrong, independent of >the >>culture around us. That _is_ naive. > >I don't believe it is naive. I think we *do* all share some core set of >values that tells us what is right or wrong. This boarders on insufferable arrogance. Perhaps you are speaking about genetic morality. Or something. Surely you can quote something which proves this inherent sense of correct values. It would probably have to be something which likewise would prove the existence of the soul. >The people who frame our laws >also believe this. You give our lawmakers too much credit. They just want their names connected with something that will be advertised as a good project. >As I indicated in my answer the first time around, the >presumption that we all know the difference between right and wrong is the >foundation of our entire criminal law system. People must either be guided or forced by power of law, into non-predation. If they are not, society becomes as predatory as allowed. >It works for me, too. You are exceptional. >In this particular venue (a.r.s.) I think maybe it takes more courage to >express *my* point of view! ;-) You don't seem to mind showing your ignorance. What else is there to fear? Rev Dennis Erlich * * the inFormer * *