Path: rambo.bobo.net!xs4all!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news.tele2.nl!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.concentric.net!global-news-master From: inFormer@informer.org (Rev Dennis Erlich) Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Bob & Stacy, from Kim Baker Date: 05 Feb 1999 09:23:07 PST Organization: inFormer Ministry [a 501(c)3 non-profit, religious/educational organization] "... in service of cult victims and their families." Lines: 106 Message-ID: <36cd2734.5651095@news.concentric.net> References: <36bcc60b.4258605@news.concentric.net> <79cmrf$jhs@netaxs.com> Reply-To: inFormer@informer.org NNTP-Posting-Host: ts040d27.lax-ca.concentric.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 X-No-Archive: yes Xref: rambo.bobo.net alt.religion.scientology:174541 rkeller@netaxs.com (Rod Keller): yhn >: Bob indicated to me on irc yesterday that he thinks the >: cult/ex-cult experience is not understood by people on ars. He was >: berating those who read and post to ars for their inability to >: empathize with us. I have not found this to be the case. >: >: Of course I have worked hard to win over a substantial number >: of critics who thought I was some kind of hysteric. Probably some >: still do. But I think it is something different they don't >: understand. And I am trying my best to show them what they need to >: see in order to promote the growth of that understanding. rod >I think there is a lack of sympathy and understanding for the cult >experience. I don't entirely disagree, Rod. But blaming and berating anyone who don't understand or who "lacks sympathy" doesn't improve the situation. >I speak as somebody who was unsympathetic and didn't >understand for several years after I started reading a.r.s. And I speak as someone who worked hard to help folks such as you understand. >Remember how >we used to fight in the old days, Dennis? Sure, Rod. Isn't there something in your sig about it? But I eventually made you understand my extreme outrage at (what I felt at the time were) your equivocal criticisms. >I thought for sure you would >punch me in the mouth when we met in Clearwater. Instead you jumped to >your feet and gave me a two handed shake that nearly dislocated my arms. >It was a really good way to meet you. People like you, Rogue, Ron, Don Lindsay, Bob Bingham and others I can't at this moment recall, were the perfect reality check for me during those turbulent times. If I couldn't get my points across and convince smart folks like you, perhaps I ~was~ FOS. >I think the point made the other night was valid, about how a.r.s >concentrates on OSA, the PIs, the harassment, the spying, lying, etc. I didn't catch that point, if it was made. And I'm not sure I really understand it now. The newsgroup seems to follow the topics in which there is some interest. If you are saying that more should be said about how the mindf*ck is accomplished and what recovery is like, I agree. But that can only happen if those who come out are willing to sit down and explain it. Then they better be willing to defend their explanations. If, OTOH, you are implying that the newsgroup should be more interested in those subjects, I believe you are attempting the equivalent of influencing weather. >I think that's an easy metaphor for folks, like a war, like a football game. Yes, people sometimes don't really have the perspective that they are in one sense spectators. But in another very real sense, they are the prize. The potential victims and marks of the cult. They are what the game is really about. Not about us exers. >It's the work of Div 6 that I think is underappreciated. Hope I'm not outta line, Rod. But Div 6 is body routing and public courses. Is that what you meant? Or were you just trying to demonstrate your own lack of understanding. >The mindfuck, the >battle of Scientology against Scientologists. Getting people to the point >where they will accept anything, even an evil space tyrant who dumps >people into volcanos. That's done in Div 4 (tek) and Div 1 (personnel and ethics). >At just about every picket I get onlookers who tell me how stupid >Scientologists are. I make it a point to tell them they're wrong. >Scientologists are not stupid, or weak-willed, or gullible. Maybe not before. Maybe not after. But certainly while we were in, we were all of those things. Otherwise we wouldn't have put up with what we did. >I just think >that everybody is vulnerable at some point in their lives, and cults are >designed to match up with that vulnerability. True. >But cults don't make >everybody into a good solider for the cause. They feed off their own, and >the damage that's left is poorly understood. That's a fact. And I believe what is going on in this here is evidence of that damage. Rev Dennis Erlich * * the inFormer * *