larrybergen asked this question on 5/2/2000:
The scientific research documenting the connection between violence, suicide and psychiatric drugs is overwhelming.
Perhaps most revealing is the statement by Candace B. Pert, Research Professor at Georgetown University Medical Center in Washington, as published in the October 20, 1997 issue of Time magazine. Professor Pert stated: "I am alarmed at the monster that Johns Hopkins neuroscientist Solomon Snyder and I created when we discovered the simple binding assay for drug receptors 25 years ago....The public is being misinformed about the precision of these selective Serotonin-uptake inhibitors when the medical profession over-simplifies their action in the brain..."7
Brief excerpts from some of the numerous studies documenting the violence/suicide connection follow:
(1) Testing revealed that Eric Harris, one of the dead suspects in the Columbine incident, had therapeutic levels of Luvox in his blood. On May 4, 1999, ABC's affiliate in Colorado reported that "Luvox is the trade name for fluvoxamine, which research shows can induce mania." This is substantiated in an American Journal of Psychiatry article entitled "Mania and Fluvoxamine" which states the "drug can induce mania in some persons when it is given at normal doses."
Additionally, a study by researchers at Hadassah-Hebrew University School of Medicine in Jerusalem, published in the Annals of Pharmacotherapy, concluded the following about Luvox: "Our case series suggests that fluvoxamine may have the ability to induce or unmask manic behavior in depressed patients. Clinicians are alerted to monitor for this 'switching effect...'" 8
(2) A psychiatrist and drug expert states: "According to the manufacturer, Solvay, 4% of children and youth taking Luvox developed mania during short-term controlled clinical trials. Mania is a psychosis which can produce bizarre, grandiose, highly elaborated destructive plans, including mass murder..."9
(3) The New York Post reported on January 31, 1999, that they had obtained documents through the Freedom of Information Act showing that the New York Psychiatric Institute was testing Prozac on 6-year-olds. The psychiatric researchers' own documents noted that "Some patients have been reported to have an increase in suicidal thoughts and/or violent behavior." Another side effect – wild manic episodes – was also acknowledged in the researchers' records. 10
(4) A study conducted at Yale University School of Medicine and published in The Journal of The American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry in March, 1991, found that self-injurious ideation or behavior started or intensified during treatment with an antidepressant in six patients, ages 10 to 17, who were among 42 patients being studied.11
(5) A study published in The Journal of Forensic Science in September, 1998, found that of 392 youth suicides in Paris between 1989 and 1996, 35% used to take psychoactive drugs.12
(6) A 1995 Nordic conference reported that the new antidepressant drugs, in particular, have a stimulating amphetamine-like effect and consumers of these drugs can become "aggressive" or "suffer hallucinations and/or suicidal thoughts."13
(7) One Canadian research team which studied the effects of psychiatric drugs on prisoners found that "violent, aggressive incidents occurred significantly more frequently in inmates who were on psychotropic (psychiatric or mind altering) medication than when these inmates were not on psychotropic drugs." [emphasis added] Inmates on major tranquilizers were shown to be more than twice as violent as they were when not taking psychiatric drugs.14
For more information and references see cchr.org
(note: no animosity intended but It took me a while to back up my claims, and this is data that was requested by many and everyone should be aware of it anyway.)LB.
desertphile gave this response on 5/3/2000:
Why is larry lying to us? Does he want suicidal people to kill themselves? Some 32,000 people in the USA will DIE this year from suicide because they are not being treated for their depression and axienty: illnesses that Prozac effectively treats to HUGE success. Why does larry seem to want more deaths?!?!?
Why does the Church of Scientology oppose the usage of Prozac?
That's a good question. The answer would take a very great amount of time and effort to be thorough, but I'll address the larger issues here. You may wish to copy this text for a file for later use when the CoS's propaganda mill starts churning out their anti-Prozac nonsense.
The Church of Scientology sees itself as a direct economic competitor to the mental health profession. They therefore slander it every chance they get, mostly out of greed. They feel that if they can prevent people from seeking real help, those people will turn to Scientology "services" for "help."
They also claim they believe that the mental health professionals are "dangerous" and "evil." This is due to Scientology Scripture that state psychiatrists and being telepathically controlled by aliens from outer space. See Scientology Scriptures at http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/Christ2.html
Let us now address Prozac. The Church of Scientology claims it believes that Prozac causes people to become suicidal and violent. They offer two or three "cases" as "evidence." They assert that some people who were violent while taking Prozac had had "no history of violence" before taking Prozac. They also claim that there are people who were "made suicidal" even though those people had "no history of suicidal thoughts."
Not only are those claims false, but they are fundamentally impossible. Not only are their specific "cases" false, but they have been DEBUNKED!
First thing first.
Prozac is a Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitor (SSRI). It increases the amount of serotonin in the body by blocking enzymatic destruction of that neurotransmitter after it has "passed on" the "impulse." (It is pre-synaptic, however--- not post-synaptic like some of the other anti-depressants.) This means that serotonin is effectively increased in the blood stream, spinal cord, brain, and wherever else the amine is located.
Studies show that violent people have very low levels of serotonin in their bodies (generally measured from spinal fluid). Studies have been performed (such as reported in the Teicher report, "American Journal of Psychiatry, February 1990) that show that violence is related to low levels of serotonin. Human and monkey studies looking at acts of aggression and serotonin levels show that both the humans and monkeys with low serotonin are more violent.
What's more, suicidal people ALSO have very low levels of serotonin. Studied have been performed on the dead bodies of otherwise healthy suicides and accident victims, and the serotonin levels of the suicides were found to be much lower than then accident victim's serotonin level.
Note that the two are related. Suicide is violence on the self.
There is a reason why low serotonin is connected to violence and suicide. It's called primate hierarchy. Dominate males and females have HIGHER levels of serotonin in their bodies (measured from spinal fluid), and conversely these individuals commit FEWER acts of violence and aggression. Dominance is the opposite of aggression and violence. The alpha male and lead female "rule" by acting like "rulers," and only result to violence when required.
Also note that when an alpha male is replaced by a subordinate, the alpha male's serotonin level DECREASES drastically, and the subordinate male's serotonin level increased. The once-alpha male then increases its violent and aggressive behavior.
The data is conclusive: low serotonin results in an increase in violence.
If I my add a political side-bar here. Domestic violence is a sure sign of a man's low hierarchy status among his peers. Low job status, low self-worth, and low-respect from others in a man's environment (that is, low hierarchy) results in low serotonin level in his body, and an increase of abuse of females and children. In humans and monkeys, fighting with females is a sign of low hierarchy.
Here's the interesting thing: when violent monkeys and humans are given Prozac, violent and aggressive behavior drastically DECREASES. Low hierarchy monkeys cease to fight with females; argumentative, aggressive, and violent humans show a decrease in those behaviors.
And they kill themselves less often with the higher level of serotonin that Prozac grants them. Suicide is violence; serotonin decreases that violence, and the fantasies of self-violence.
Now to get to the "cases" that the Church of Scientology claims it believes show that Prozac causes violence and suicide.
One case is that of Joseph Wesbecker. The Church of Scientology claims that he had no history of violence and suicide until after he took Prozac. This individual brought an AK-47 rifle to work and killed 8 people, wounded 12 others, and then killed himself. The CCHR claims Prozac was responsible.
However, the Church of Scientology fails to reveal that Wesbecker had a long history of violence and thoughts of suicide. That's why he was on Prozac! The Louisville Press reported that he had a long history of mental illness which resulted in him engaging in violent behavior with other people and himself. He was hospitalized in 1978, 1984, and 1987 for mood disorder and paranoia. He had been diagnosed by four doctors as being manic depressive and paranoid; he told one doctor that he felt like he wanted to harm his foreman at work; a year before the shooting at his place of employment, he told his wife he was going to go to work and "shoot a bunch of people." Three months BEFORE being put on Prozac, he bought an AK-47.
Why would the Church of Scientology not tell us about this? Could it be they wish to DECEIVE us?
Another "case" was Rebecca McStoots. She and the CCHR claimed that she had "no prior history" of violence, and that Prozac caused to shoot a doctor in the neck. She was sentenced to ten years in prison, but she sued the makers of Prozac, Eli Lilly.
The truth is that long before she started taking Prozac, she had shot her husband in New Mexico and fled to California. In California she stabbed a woman with a knife. It only took Eli Lilly a small amount of effort to discover these facts, and the law suit was dismissed.
The Church of Scientology will not tell you these facts either. That would show they are full of shit.
There are many other "cases" just like these. People claim they were not violent and not suicidal before talking Prozac. And yet the REASON people are prescribed Prozac is because they are depressed and often suicidal!
So when the Church of Scientology claims a "link between Prozac and violence," they are right: Prozac DECREASES violence!
desertphile gave this follow-up answer on 5/3/2000:
To understand why the Church of Scientology opposes seeking qualified mental health services, one must understand their scripture and their long, sordid criminal history.
Scientology scripture says that 75,000,000 years ago evil psychiatrists from outer space came to Earth (called Teegeeack back then) carrying trillions of beings whom they then emprisioned here. These beings infest humans and are the source of all our ills. When a human dies, the souls of these beings are captured by the evil space alien psychiatrists and taken to "implant stations" on Mars and Venus, re-brainwashed, and returned back to Earth for new incarnations. You may read this Scientology scripture in Hubbard's own hand writing at http://www.xenu.net. These evil psychiatrists are controlling the psychologists and psychiatrists here on Earth telepathically. See the following web page for details:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/Christ2.html
Then their is their criminal history. The Church of Scientology has been convicted of breaking in to the offices of psychiatrists, psychologists, mental health organizations, the FBI, the IRS, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, police stations, and many many other offices. They stole the private files of doctors, and the confidential files of their patents, to be used as material for extortion. See my FAQ under the Scientology category under "Canada." For the video confession of one person ordered to do these crimes, see:
http://holysmoke.org/mm/mm.htm
desertphile gave this follow-up answer on 5/3/2000:
I agree that the anti-depressants have dangerous side effects for some patients. ALL of my research on Prozac shows that it is not "causing violence" nor does it "induce suicide."
One obviously needs to weigh the risks with the benefits. The Church of Scientology would have us believe that Prozac is responsible for hundreds of deaths over its 14 year life: in that time span, some 55,000 people have been injured or killed on the highways of the USA -every- year. Alcohol is the culprit most of the time.
Where is their complaints about alcohol?!
Tobacco contributes to unimaginable numbers of people sick, diseased, inhured, and dead. MILLIONS of people. Where is the Scientology front group CCHR's complaints about the tobacco industry?
It is therefore blatently obvious that their complaints about Prozac and the mental health profession is just a bogus ploy to slander and libel what they believe to be a competitor.
desertphile gave this follow-up answer on 5/3/2000:
Instead of larrybergen addressing my important issues and instead of him trying to justify his CCHR propaganda's lies, he chose rather to attack me:
"So a bigot has followed me out of the scientology category and into Mental Health. Well desertphile welcome aboard make sure you ally yourself with helpline he shares your veiwpoint quite openly. I have known too many people on prozac, too many minds destroyed to give your arguments much weight"
I am indeed bigoted against liars and slanderers. The CCHR propaganda has been proven false-- so many times that anyone who wishes to spend an hour or two themselves can demonstrate to themeslves that the proaganda is false. The law suits the CCHR induced their victims to file against Eli Lilly et al were demonstrated vextatious litigation and / or demonstrated baseless.
Then larry writes that someone "shares my viewpoint quite openly." So do the vast majority of professionals in the field. Does larry really believe that one should be ashamed of supporting a miracle drug that helps millions and has no serious side effect for the vast, 99.999% of them? And the major side effects for the remaining few DO NOT INCLUDE "violence" or "inducement to suicide." There's no data to warrent making such an absurd claim.
Why is larrybergen claiming to be an "expert" when he is not? FOR MONEY. He's here to SELL a worthless product to SICK, DESPERATE PEOPLE. And I for one find that an abomination. Despicable. Anhorant. Revolting. To put MONEY ahead of the wellness and health of human beings! When I see larry engaging in such disgusting behavior, it makes me want to puke!
The average rating for this answer is 3.
larrybergen rated this answer a 1.
So a bigot has followed me out of the scientology category and into Mental Health. Well desertphile welcome aboard make sure you ally yourself with helpline he shares your veiwpoint quite openly. I have known too many people on prozac, too many minds destroyed to give your arguments much weight.