From:    Claudia Slate
To:      Dave Smith
Subject: Re: Down on the farm

 DS> pregnant and/or nursing youngsters. They were too preoccupied
 DS> with the tasks they were better designed to do. Plus, a troop
 DS> of screaming kids makes it hard to stalk game quietly. ---
 DS> QuickBBS 2.66 (Eval)  * Origin: = Themes =  Et quid amabo nisi
 DS> est Quod aenigma est? (1:247/203)

It is all somewhat speculation, but at least with Native American kids, in
the good ol' days, the kids didn't scream.   They were taught early on to
be quiet except in play...  In the first weeks of their lives they were
taught not to cry out loud.  I would imagine that the more primitive
societies could have learned this trick as well.   Additionally in primitive
and communal societies, child care is somewhat of a communal activity.  Not
unusual for the children to be left behind with a few caregivers, while the
other women went out for gathering and prehaps hunting.

I have read all of the "Clan of the Cave Bear" books as well and if you
recall, there was a group where it was accepted that the women could also
hunt.  Since most of the research Jean Auel had to go on necesarrily had
some male bias woven into the facts and speculation, I don't know that
we can automatically accept all of those premises as absolute truth and
fact.

I would as easily imagine that in very small traveling clans, every possible
available person might be needed to aquire the food needed to feed the
people.   But we don't really know....


From:    Claudia Slate
To:      Donna.
Subject: Re: oat tosties and milk

 D> To be utterly blunt, I don't care how much "bait" has been
 D> thrown out -- the person is a HUMAN BEING, and in Western
 D> society, staring at HUMAN BEINGS is impolite.  So is "passing
 D> the buck".  Now, if you have a problem keeping your own eyeballs
 D> in their sockets, don't you think you could at least be mature
 D> about it and *not* blame your impoliteness on others' choice of
 D> clothing?

You get an agreement here Donna.  Sometimes I go to topless or nude beaches
or clubs.  With the exception of an occasional curiosity seeker, men, women
and kids can all run around, swim, sunbathe, play volleyball and all,
without
anyone staring and/or being obnoxious or thinking that ones actions mean
sex, when they simply mean enjoying where you are and what you are doing at
the moment.  Sometimes folks either don't have that option, or are not
quite comfortable enough with their own bodies to do that, but still simply
enjoy being in the sun, feeling the air and sun against their skin.  It
may be a kindof sensual pleasure, like sleeping in silk sheets is, (I only
tried that once though and it was too hard to keep the comforter from
sliding
off the bed...  I hate being cold and want to sleep when I want to sleep.
), but it is a private, personal sensual pleasure - sometimes not
even conscious.

I too have had problems with men thinking because I unconsciously smiled at
them - I smile at just about everyone - that I was smiling for more of a
reason than just being nice.  Personally, if my hormones are in a certain
frame of mind and a man I find attractive smiles at me, I just might
fantasize about the meaning of that smile, but I am also very aware that
it is my fantasy, not necessarily his and wouldn't take it as anything more
than a friendly smile.   I would assume that someone who felt that every
action of another, the way they were dressed, the way they moved was a
come on or tease, is someone who tends to be have a mind frame that the
world kind of revolves around him/her - thinks that everything is happening
for his or her pleasure or discomfort instead of just happening.

I have had male friends suddenly think that there was going to be some kind
of "relationship" (other than friendship) just because I was being a friend,
listening to them, sharing thoughts, etc.  They seem amazed to find out
that I had nothing more in mind.  They will start listing all the things
we both like and have agreed on as though that somehow means I was leading
them on to believe I had the same interest.  When I point out that generally
friends, male and female, would be people you had things in common with,
people you cared about and shared certain interests with...  well sometimes
they accept it, sometimes they get genuinely hurt, sometimes they *try*
to make me feel guilty for not agreeing to change the relationship.  This
used to make me angry or very hesitant to try and have male friends, but I
have gotten to a point where I figure I can not be responsible for everyone
elses' perceptions, feelings, mindset, emotional needs, etc.   I know I
can not predict how someone else will perceive my actions.

But I have also had a woman friend, whose SO was also a friend, get angry
with me, when they were having difficulties and he and I continued working
on a project we had started.   I wasn't even aware that they were having
problems, though I knew that she was concerned about other things.  So there
I was, innocently going about things as always and unknowingly creating
a lot of distress for her.  Well, again, I had to accept that I can not
and am not personally responsible for the way that other folks, I have no
control of may perceive my actions.  This friend and I have since talked and
smoothed the waters and she says that everything is hunky-dory.   There is
a part of me that is a bit more guarded, but mostly I figure that I can't
go around worried about how others will perceive each and every thing I
do - I just have to continue living my life the best I know how and when
possible, straighten out the misunderstanding and problems when they
happen, (if I know about them.)   Those I don't know about, I can't worry
about.

In the same vein, when I dress, I dress for what I am going to do and what
makes me feel comfortable.  I can't very well be responsible for reading
other people's minds or worrying about how they will perceive it.

Interesting discussion though...

From:    Claudia Slate
To:      John Clifton
Subject: Re: Sexual assault

JC>>      What in the hell does a 17- or 18-year-old female who is
JC>> otherwise popular with males her own age want with some guy
JC>> who is more than twice her age?

Ah John, that is really pretty easy.  What do all 15-19 year olds want?
For everyone to realize they are not children anymore!   They are adults,
they have a right to make their own decisions, they don't wish to be
treated as children, they want their choices to be recognised as mature and
adult, (whether they actually are or not).   Anyway, this is the mindset of
most all of the teenagers I have known and what I can recall from being a
teen myself and rereading a few old journal pages.  So what better way to
convince yourself and others that you are indeed as wise and mature and
adult as you wish to believe than to have an adult show interest in you -
to relate to you as an equal adult;  it affirms that which you have been
trying to tell the world!

Geez, I remember when I was 16, working as a lifeguard that summer at a
small motel neat the Houston ship channel.  The motel also serves as a
social
club for Pasadena.  I taught swimming lessons to the local youngsters in the
morning then kept them from drowning each other till their mom's picked
them up.  I got off work at 1:00 p.m.  My best friend, (whose idea it had
been to be lifeguards that summer so we could meet guys - I got the kids,
she got a job on the beach at Galveston!) would come by on the days she
didn't work and we would spend the afternoons on the roof of one of the
buildings reading Hawaii and everything else that had any sex in it at all.

Once this wonderfully older Greek from one of the ships in port stayed at
the motel.  My demenor with the kids became much gentler and more adult, and
while I recall trying very hard to pretend I didn't notice him, I am sure I
failed miserably.  I'd always find some kid I had to talk to in the pool
near where he was sitting.  On the second day, we found something to
casually discuss and on the third day, he wound up buying me a hamburger
there at the club while I waited for my friend to get there.  I was thinking
as much about her coming in and seeing us eating together as I was anything
he might have been saying.  On the third day he wrote in my autograph book,
"Claudia is not like the honey which is sweet, for a man would soon tire of
it.  She is the wine, which is bitter and makes a man come back for more."

I fell in love the moment I read what he wrote.  Someone - an adult - had
validated all the fantasies I had about myself.  Luckily, that ship left the
next morning!  :)  But everyone I knew was forced to read that and hear
about it, and listen to me make my friend validate the guy's age - no
doubt until they were absolutely sick of it.  I am sure I became nearly
intolerable, still there was a new aura that surrounded me - a new something
that also made the other girls want to be around me and with me - like it
might rub off or something.  And of course, all the boys my age, became
totally immature - for at least 2 weeks, when I wised up to the fact that
the Greek was gone and it was them or nothing.  No doubt, our most intimate
moment was an accidental touching of hands when he passed me the katsup for
my french fries, but in my imagination, there was the rubbing of suntan
lotion on me and in the end, his taking me with him on the ship because he
couldn't bear to leave me behind.  :)

John, it has nothing to do with logic.  It has to do with hormones and
being caught in that world between being a child and being an adult.  You
feel that you are expected to be an adult in all areas except those that
have what you perceive to be the important ones giving you control over you
life.

Peace & grins,  (thanks for the memory...)
 Claudia

From:    Claudia Slate
To:      Chris Sonnack
Subject: Re: Push/Pull

 CS>  approach to sex.  Her body was sending one set of signals, but
 CS>  her mind was sending contrary ones.

Happens all the time....  :(