From:    Kim Storment
To:      Donna.                                 Msg #64, 05:36pm Nov-25-90
Subject: Traditionalism vs. Feminism?

 D> For example, a few months ago, a young man who was on this
 D> echo told us a most peculiar story.  It seems that he and his wife
 D> were quite the feminist couple, but then they got pregnant, she got
 D> tired of doing it all, and . . . . So, she quit her secretarial job,
 D> started denouncing feminism, and is quite the happy homemaker.
 D> What's wrong with this story?

Here's another one for you to analyze.  The logical flaws are obvious to
=ME=, but I'll bet the majority of Newsweek's readers accepted it at face
value.  From the "My Turn" column, Nov. 19, 1990, p. 9:

			  "The Failure of Feminism" by Kay Ebeling

The other day I had the world's fastest blind date.  A Yuppie from Eureka
penciled me in for 50 minutes on a Friday and met me at a watering hole in
the rural northern California town of Arcata.  He breezed in, threw his
jammed daily planner on the table and shot questions at me, watching my
reactions as if it were a job interview.  He eyed how much I drank.  Then
he breezed out to his next appointment.  He had given us 50 minutes to
size each other up and see if there was any chance for romance.  His exit
was so fast that as we left he let the door slam back in my face.  It was
an interesting slam.

Most of our 50-minute conversation had covered the changing state of
male-female relationships.  My blind date was 40 years old, from the
Experimental Generation.  He is "actively pursuing new ways for men and
women to interact now that old traditions no longer exist."  That's a real
quote.  He really did say that, when I asked him what he liked to do.
This was a man who'd read Ms. Magazine and believed every word of it.
He'd been single for 16 years but had lived with a few women during that
time.  He was off that evening for a ski weekend, meeting someone who was
paying her own way for the trip.

I too am from the Experimental Generation, but I couldn't even pay for my
own drink.  To me, feminism has backfired against women.  In 1973 I left
what could have been a perfectly good marriage, taking with me a child in
diapers, a 10-year-old Plymouth and Volume 1, Number One of Ms. Magazine.
I was convinced I could make it on my own.  In the last 15 years my ex has
married or lived with a succession of women.  As he gets older, his women
stay in their 20s.  Meanwhile, I've stayed unattached.  He drives a BMW.
I ride buses.

Today I see feminism as the Great Experiment That Failed, and women in my
generation, its perpetrators, are the casualties.  Many of us, myself
included, are saddled with raising children alone.  The resulting poverty
makes us experts at cornmeal recipes and ways to find free recreation on
weekends.  At the same time, single men from our generation amass fortunes
in CDs and real-estate ventures so they can breeze off on ski weekends.
Feminism freed men, not women.  Now men are spared the nuisance of a wife
and family to support.  After childbirth, if his wife's waist doesn't
return to 20 inches, the husband can go out and get a more petite woman.
It's far more difficult for the wife, now tied down with a baby, to find a
new man.  My blind date that Friday waved goodbye as he drove off in his
RV.  I walked home and paid the sitter with laundry quarters.

The main message of feminism was:  woman, you don't need a man; remember,
those of you around 40, the phrase:  "A woman without a man is like a fish
without a bicycle"?  That joke circulated through "consciousness raising"
groups across the country in the '70s.  It was a philsophy that made
divorce and cohabitation casual and routine.  Feminism made women
disposable.  So today a lot of females are around 40 and single with a
couple of kids to raise on their own.  Child-support payments might pay
for a few pairs of shoes, but in general, feminism gave men all the
financial and personal advantages over women.

What's worse, we asked for it.  Many women decided:  you don't need a
family structure to raise your children.  We packed them off to day-care
centers where they could get their nurturing from professionals.  Then we
put on our suits and ties, packed our briefcases and took off on this
Great Experiment, convinced that there was no difference between ourselves
and the guys in the other offices.

How wrong we were.  Because, like it or not, women have babies.  It's this
biological thing that's just there, these organs we're born with.  The
truth is, a woman can't live the true feminist life unless she denies her
child-bearing biology.  She has to live on the pill, or have her tubes
tied at an early age.  Then she can keep up with the guys with an
uninterrupted career and then, when she's 30, she'll be paying her own way
on ski weekends too.

The reality of feminism is a lot of frenzied and overworked women dropping
kids off at day-care centers.  If the child is sick, they just send along
some children's Tylenol and then rush off to underpaid jobs that they
don't even like.  Two of my working-mother friends told me they were
mopping floors and folding laundry after midnight last week.  They live on
five hours of sleep, and it shows in their faces.  And they've got
husbands!  I'm not advocating that  women retrogress to the brainless
housewives of the '50s who spent afternoons baking macaroni sculptures and
keeping Betty Crocker files.  Post-World War II women were the first to be
left with a lot of free time, and they weren't too creative in filling it.
Perhaps feminism was a reaction to that Brainless Betty, and in that
respect, feminism has served a purpose.

Women should get their educations so they can be brainy in the way they
raise their children.  Women can start small businesses, do consulting,
write freelance out of the home.  But women don't belong in 12-hour-a-day
executive office positions, and I can't figure out today what ever made us
think we would want to be there in the first place.  As long as that
biology is there, women can't compete equally with men.  A ratio cannot be
made using disproportionate parts.  Women and men are not equal, we're
different.  The economy might even improve if women came home, opening up
jobs for unemployed men, who could then support a wife a children, the way
it was, pre-feminism.

Sometimes on Saturday nights I'll get dressed up and go out club-hopping or
to the theater, but the sight of all those other women my age, dressed a
little too young, made up to hide encroaching wrinkles, looking hopefully
into the drowds, usually depresses me.  I end up coming home, to spend my
Saturday night with my daughter asleep in her room nearby.  At least the
NBC Saturday-night lineup is geared demographically to women at home alone.

******************************************
A single mother of a 2-year-old[!] daughter and a freelance writer[!],
Ebeling lives in Humboldt County, Calif.

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From:    Martha Brummett
To:      Kim Storment                           Msg #31, 05:49am Nov-27-90
Subject: Traditionalism Vs. Feminism?


Take it this was not a satirical article?  How weird... I mean, those
inequities do exist, but not in such an exaggerated manner. Maybe I just
know particularly nice people of all sexes and orientations.

I shudder to think of what my life would have been without
feminism--truncated, most probably--and feel that the person who wrote
that article, male or female (sounds like a travesty act by the former,
to) should have to experience the sight of some of the harms done by it.

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