From:    Donna.
To:      Jacquie 191
Subject: Porn for Women?

> Regarding your comments about the abundance of digitized female pictures
> and lack of male counterparts: I think there are lots fewer examples of
> male visual porn around because women don't respond to body parts per se
> the way men do.

I think I said this on this echo just recently (mebbe a day or two ago),
but just in case I didn't -- I'm wondering if it's Yet Another Cause/Effect
kind of a thing.  I mean, we women don't *grow up* seeing male body parts
in the same way that men grow up seeing female body parts.

What's gotten me so particularly interested in this is a combination of the
difference between experiences that *I* had while growing up, that your
"average woman" didn't have, and how different I am from that "average
woman" now, as adults, and how I've changed within my own life.

The porn issue is mostly the latter.  To demonstrate, here's just a couple
stories from my life to show you where my thinking has gone.  My first
knowledge of what the male organ looked like was when I accidentally walked
in on my brother while he was in the bathroom (he hadn't bothered turning
the light on, so I thought no one was there and just walked in).  For the
next day or so, I was the most popular girl on my block, as I tried to
*draw what I'd seen* for the other little girls.  We tittered and we
giggled over such a "funny-looking" thing.... but when the first one of us
to grow up and neck with her boyfriend, she reported the differences -- AND
what happened when the boy got excited.

My first glance at a _Playgirl_, even though I was completely alone in the
apartment when I decided to check out my roommate's copy, was *highly*
embarrassing to me.  But then, I was already 18 years old, and the only
*real* penis I'd seen had been that glimpse of my brother.  The next few
years of dating was the typical teenager-kind-of-dating.... you know,
wanting to do more than "just kiss" but, since I dated boys who were as
inexperienced as I was, we were both nervous.  Most importantly for my
psyche, however, was that *they* were more reluctant to undress with the
lights on than *I* was!

And when I finally did become sexually active, I ran into man after man who
was *embarrassed* to have me look at HIM, although most of these same men
were very interested in wanting to look at ME.  (If the "me" of today had
been there, I would have asked 'em about the double standard.  Alas, my
thinking hadn't gotten to man/woman separation yet -- then, I just passed
it off as "some people are more shy than some other people".  Silly, huh?)

I've had four different POSSLQs in my life, one of whom became my husband.
Out of those four, only ONE is comfortable with being nekkid-to-scantily-
dressed at home (which is my habit, too).  (Fortunately, I married the one
who is comfortable with having me see his body.)  For the first time in my
*entire* life, I have complete and total access to seeing a naked male body
whenever I want to.  And ya know what?  These past couple of years, I find
myself glancing at the pictures in _Playboy_ and WISHING THAT THERE WERE
SOME PICTURES OF *MEN* THAT I COULD LOOK AT.  I've been a subscriber of
_Playboy_ for years, but it's only since I've gotten *used to* seeing the
male body in all its glorious splendor that I'd like to see pictures of it.

Please note, I'm not talking about "for sexual arousal purposes" here.  I'm
talking about the celebration of the human body.  The human body is a
glorious creation (no matter who or what creative force did it, it's still
a wonderful creation)..... but only males get to enjoy this celebration,
for the most part.  Think about it -- where can women have the opportunity
to appreciate the male body?  Even the Chippendale-style dance clubs don't
really count, since (at least in the ones out here) women are not just
allowed, but *encouraged* to touch the dancers (which isn't allowed in
clubs where the females strip), and (again, at least in the ones out here)
the dancers are there with the intent of taking a customer home with 'em --
and that adds an extra layer to the appreciation-for-appreciation's-sake.

As to whether or not pictures of the male body would turn me on, well, I'd
have to say honestly that I DON'T KNOW.  The few issues of _Playgirl_ that
I've seen in my life have had pictures of men, yes, but most of the models
were just kinda standing there, looking at the camera.  Nothing like
sultry, seductive poses like what's found in _Playboy_, and nothing like
the lusty poses like what's found in _Hustler_, _Penthouse_, or so many of
those others.  And, of course, now that I've found my One True Love, any
pictures that *might* have turned me on in the past probably wouldn't be as
effective for me now (unless they're pix of my sweetie, natch).  But it's
still true that I have no way of knowing whether or not pictures of men
*would* do anything for me, since they're not as easy to find.

>Seems to me that more men get turned on by female contours, while more women
>get turned on by romantic fantasies. (Big generalities, here, but I think
>that as generalities, they hold.)

I'll agree that, as generalities, they hold.  But I keep wondering, if we'd
approached our puberty with visions of male contours, would (collective
general) we grow up more interested in the visual than or not?

> Taking it down to the personal: I might be fascinated
> by photos of male genitalia, but they wouldn't turn me on.  What would
> turn me on pictorally would be the faces of two would-be lovers, looking
> intently into each others' eyes with passionate desire, mouths almost
> close enough to kiss...

And, to make my point once again..... where is YOUR PORN?  Pornography,
erotica, they're all the same in my book, since everybody defines each of
them differently.  (One person's erotica is another person's porn, I've
noticed.)  I know other women who say much like what you just said -- but
where can you find that?  (Hmmm, could THIS be why so many women like
romantic movies.... 'cause it's really about the only place we can find
depictions of two would-be lovers, gazing into each others' eyes?)

> my sexuality?  (Which is more likely incited by watching
> the fingers of a man who attracts me play on the arm of his chair.)

Just wanted to letcha know that you inspired a pretty neat mental visual
for *me* with this sentence.