Messages on CompRef's WOMEN - MEN message base
Message #5
From: Alex 116
To: all
Date: 11-27-90 22:01:56
Subject: Lets start a topic going... hmmm
Ok 'chelle, I'm going to do my part to get your new sub off to a
flying start. Here's my question;
Why is it that I constantly hear women complaining about "how shallow
men generally are" and, yet, I (too) often find out that the only
men these women ever go out with are lounge lizards. I mean, if a
guy is not "cool enough" to get drunk off his butt
at the local meat market on satuarday night, then they won't even
consider meeting him. Like, how many guys pick up a woman at a bar
with intentions of having more than a short affair, if that much?
It cracks me up because, being a guy, I know what the average joe,
at the bar, wants and, knowing many women, I know what the average
Sue is looking for. But I keep asking myself why the heck these people
keep asking everyone why the other sex is so shallow and they're
all bitches and bastards, etc, etc! Come on, what do you expect to
be finding in a nightclub??? Oh well, I see a lot of disallusionment
going on in both sexes outlook of the other. My problem is that I
hardly fit the "lounge lizard" stereotype, yet, I find myself
constantly having to prove to women that I'm not a jerk... seems
that, unless proven otherwise, a guy is jerk, is a jerk, is a jerk...
I wonder how many other men feel like I do???
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Message #6
From: Marc 21
To: Alex 116
Date: 11-28-90 08:58:19
Subject: Human Nature... Men and Women
In answer to your question about women who say they don't like
shallow men but seem to pick up on the same type, there is one thing
to keep in mind. What people say versus what they do are two differen
things. A person may want a mate that is not shallow... but is more
than willing to let their criteria go lower when they want temporary
company. Some people go to "meat markets" just to have fun, others
go to meet someone new (not a serious relationship), while others
go to find a mate. I think most go for the second reason... men
and women alike.
The best way to tell what a person is really after is to watch
their actions. If someone tells you they want a meaningful relationshop
and no shallow people, yet you see them constantly going to "meat
markets" and picking people up... you can conclude that they really
desire that short relationship and they haven't made up their minds
yet on what they want for a long term relationship. If someone says
they love you but their actions say different, chances are theyt
are lying to you or have a different idea of love than you do.
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Remember... when ALL else fails... WATCH THEIR ACTONS!!!!
marc
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Message #7
From: Jeff 122
To: All
Date: 11-29-90 08:28:45
Subject: Men as stereotypes..
I must say, I have noticed a similar attitude in some (but not ALL)
women. One explanation that comes to mind is simply that of habit/conditi
oning/addictive-type behavior patterns.
Have you ever noticed that people tend to go from relationship
to very similar relationship, time and time again? It's probably
unconcious and beyond the persons control, just as is alcoholism
or other addictive behavior.
One example that comes to mindis that of really attractive females..
Many times I'll see someone I know casually and see her with some
new guy, and just by LOOKING at him, I know he is as big an idiot
as the last guy I saw her with.. and I wonder "gee, why is that?"
And then I realize that these kinds of guys are the only types stupid
enough not to be somewhat frightened of females that LOOK like this...
So the poor girl gets hit on by these idiots much more often and
sooner... and ends up only going out with idiots, hence, all guys must
be idiots, since she has never had a good experience ... "But, I
go out with LOTS of guys, and they are all the same.."
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How does that song go? "pretty women walking with gorillas on my
street..."
Any thoughts anyone? Jeff
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Message #8
From: Brant 12
To: Marc / Chelle
Date: 12-15-90 13:46:42
Subject: Women and Men
Gosh, I dunno why women and men aren't totally candid with
each other.....I know I, for one, prefer being TOTALLY candid,
whipping out that 35mm or video camera when they LEAST expect it!
...heheh.....seriously, I have always found that if everything
is out in the open, you can't get in trouble. If the girls you're
dating know about each other, they can't accuse you of two-timing,
etc......so I try to let them know all about what's going on in my
life....
...my role model in this is John Derek, who went from a relationship
with that Swedish actress (can't remember her name), to Linda whatsherface
to Bo Derek, having intensely involved relationships with each,
dropping down 15 or 20 years in age each time, and he was so open
about it, so candid, that the women not only understood and forgave
him, but they're all STILL FRIENDS with him!
I saw Linda and Bo on the same talk show, and the host kept asking
how they could not help but hate John, and they both agreed that
he was so open and sensitive and explanatory, that they still loved
him and understood why he was leaving them for the much younger woman.
(also interesting how similar these women look : ( I remember their
names now : Ursala Andress, Linda Evans, and Bo Derek))
I believe Linda was about 30 when John left her for a 16 year
old California blonde named Bo.....
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not condoning men leaving women{for
a series of younger women......I understand it, given mens need for
visual stimulation (interesting statistic here : I read that the
frequency of sex in a relationship is directly related to the AGE
of THE WOMAN, not the age of the man. Younger women seem to inspire
arousal more often in men of ANY AGE!)
But I am noting John Derek's masterful use of candidness and
open, sensitive discussion in a relationship.
As for staying friends with a woman without sex, I once let a
good friend of mine stay at my apt for about 2 months, sleeping in
my bed with me 4 or 5 nites a week, sharing a bathroom, etc, and
we kept it platonic. I was dating someone else at the time, she
knew all about it, and trusted me. BELIEVE IT, OR NOT! hehehe
References available on request,
Brant
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Message #9
From: Mickey 11
To: Purple Hearters
Date: 02-14-91 10:49:13
Subject: Thoughts on VD
Happy Valentines Day, gang! Here's hoping you have all
remembered to do something special for those special loved
ones in your life, and have plans for some serious licking
and sucking this evening. Me...? Welp, Admiral and I plan
to surprise Brant tonight with fun little toy we bought at
last weekend's Puter PJ Party. It's an industrial strength,
kick-started 4-stroke Hercules Vibrating Butt Plug from Bubba
Luv Inc. We just know he's gunna love it to death... esp if
he doesnt read the directions!
Love permeates the very air we breath today.... Or was that
just Robert Goulet flying around in a helicopter with a massive
PA system? VD seems like an appropriate day to posulate a few
of mine own thoughts on Love.....
How quickly love flowers in the hearts of the young, inexperienced
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and foolish... brimming with tumescent temerity, while hormones
flush through your veins like an OD of Jolt cola. But before you
get carried away by the spirit of the day, or the heat of the
passionate moment remember Mickey's Stark Reality Rule : Love is
the IDEAL thing, marriage is the REAL thing. Confusion of the
real with the ideal never goes unpunished. Love must be built on
truth, not on dreams, and the knowledge of what we recognize
ourselves to be, rather than what we think its fashionable to be.
This is why so many young marriages fail... the partners arent
old enough to truly know themselves yet, or havent quite matured
into who they will ultimately be. People make a mistake in trying
to find love in others before finding it in themselves first.
Love begins when another person's welfare becomes more important
than your own. Finally, remember that love means never having
to say you're... 1. ruptured ; 2. swaybacked ; 3. eviscerated ;
4. embalmed. Happy Valentines Day!
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Message #10
From: CompuJock 9
To: MICKEY
Date: 02-14-91 21:09:33
Subject: Last post:
In a word "Hallelujah!" I luv your philosophy on love... contained
no bull and spoke enough of reality to shake apart any idealist's
visions on the matter... sharp mind, Mick. Why do I get the feeling
that you were not the type to be standing in line at the flower shop
today, paying $75 for a dozen roses???!
.s
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Message #11
From: Brant 12
To: CompuJock 9
Date: 02-17-91 14:06:42
Subject: Flowers on Valentines Day
I agree with you, CompuJock ('cept why are you using your
SPORTS board Moderator account on the Men & Women board?????),
...anyways, ya, I think we've let the commercial / consumer
interests blow PURCHASED gift giving all out of proportion on the
various holidays....but at the same time I must point out that I
feel that the main group to buy into this tendency is WOMEN...they
spend HUGE amounts of money buying vastly overpriced clothes, makeup,
and furniture.....yet we as men are accessories to this crime, when
we let ourselves get involved with this monetary debacle....
First Christmas went commercial, with Sears catalogs influencing
the rural people to buy big-city merchandise. Now little Bobby just
HAS to have the Ninja Turtle Helmet with matching gun, or the other
neighborhood kids will make fun of him......birthdays have gotten
pretty commercial, too, but because it's not a special DAY, the
advertisting moguls haven't really gotten the handle on manipulating
birthday purchases yet......
But VALENTINES DAY, or VD day as Mick so romantically terms it,
has fallen prey to these mavens of commercial crassness. Women REQUIRE
their men to come home with bouquets of flowers, the more expensive
the better, to "prove their love". This phenomenon is hand in hand
with the jewelers successful indoctrination of wedding-bound females,
where the size of the diamond (along with the monthly payments) is
supposedly directly related to the love a man is attempting to evince.
While married men might get by with a slightly grubby little bunch
of roses bought at a freeway offramp, or a single boxed rose sold
at a 1000% markup....but SINGLE guys feel bound to trek down to their
local ripoff flower shop (who make the vast majority of their profits
on Valentines, Mothers Day, and Christmas), plop down a days pay
for 12 flowers, to prove they are "worthy" of her love.
I for one rebel against this sort of manipulation, and as a side
effect of this quickly find out which girls can rise above their
cultural conditioning, and which ones have succumbed to "outspending
the Joneses".....for Valentines Day I went around to the various
flowering bushes and plants, trimmed off a bunch of different pretty
flowers and greens, and spent an hour or so putting together what
I thought was a pretty nice bouquet. It was made of about half red
azaleas, half pink camellias, and trimmed with some sweet pea flowers
of various purple shades.
*I* liked it, and lucky for me the girl I gave it to liked it, too!
Rebel without a Rose,
Brant
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Message #12
From: Alex 116
To: Rebel without a rose
Date: 02-17-91 23:07:42
Subject: ^^^
If it's true what they say --" 'admiration' is how much your fellow
man resembles yourself"-- then I must admit that I truely admire
your philosophy and stragegy with women... it sounds almost exactly
the same as mine. I've come to the point where, as mentioned in my
last post, I get disgusted at the thought of x-mas time, v-day, or
any other (official) "special day" coming along. I've been a
fanatical student of psychology/sociology for many years, and am
used to looking at "normal life" from a different viewpoint then
most. To me, these so-called "special days" are just so plainly
phoney --"phoney," when I try to do them onto others... "insulting"
when others try to charm me through them. It all seems so clear to
me, the manipulation/wishful thinking/etc, that people who do this
stuff go through. But the circus goes on, as one can plainly see
by the long lines and exorbidant prices at the flower shops, the
other day. Don't people ever wise up to the reality of it all? Perhaps,
as I believe, they really DO know the game but, for fear of inflicting
hurt onto others, or, maybe, for fear of departing from the norm,
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they decide to follow the rest of the sheep.{
It really kills me, in the case of x-mas, to see people make holiday
plans, over the course of half a year prior, to have a "good time"
on a certain day. They spend months and months buying, buying, buying,
often spending money they don't have, on things the recipiant surely
won't want, or can't use. All the while they are going through these
motions, they tell themselves that they are having fun. But their
actions often speak to me the story that they havn't the fainest
clue as to why they are doing what they are. And, in the end, the
"special day" comes around and, by now, it has been so well planned
out, down to the last detail, that it is a dreadful bore to experience!
No more spontainaiety is involved in it... all the gifts, words,
and expressions have been thought about for months already, played
out in everyone's minds a million times over... all that is left
is to go through with the motions and REMEMBER that part of your
planning required you to "have a good time"... so you wear the
neccessary smile on your face.
Is this how it really works or what?!!! UGGGG! I hope it makes some
of you as sick to think about it as it does me!
Guru in standing....
Alex116
(c-jock9)
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Message #13
From: Gerry 261
To: Alex 116
Date: 02-18-91 05:55:58
Subject: On the other hand ..{
Rituals of passage and the like are an important part of human experience,
and we tend to have far to few of them in modern western culture.
Just because retailers try to commercialize or otherwise exploit
a given event does not mean tha one has to be sucked into same to
mark the event.
Christmas, Valentine's Day and the like are meant to be events which
mark and celebrate. Coming annually, they also mark cycles in our
existence, much as do the seasons (which are usually celebrated in
some form in most cultures).
I, for one, love to give and get valentines -- particularly ones
which reflect some thoughtfulness. Perhaps if we males were a little
more communicative of our love and other passions, we wouldn't need
something like Valentine's day to prompt us?
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Message #14
From: Julie 137
To: To the Rebels.....
Date: 02-19-91 20:00:00
Subject: Thoughtfulness....
If I can speak for some women, at least myself, I do not
believe women look at the dollar amount of a gift or the
exact event she receives it. I would like to believe people
in general will treat others, especially a loved one, they
way they want to be treated. And yes, holidays etc.. become
very profit conscious and 'keep up with the Jones' but you have the right
to make the choice of the way you want to spend it. I appreciate
the thoughtfulness and caring that a man will put into celebrating
holidays and Valentine's Day. I would love a single rose
as much as I would a dozen roses.
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Message #15
From: George 133
To: All
Date: 03-13-91 10:48:17
Subject: She smokes!
Ok, here's one for you bbs Dear Abbey's.
On our second date, I discovered that the lady I've since
become interested in, smokes cigarettes. She did not smoke
at all on our first date. But after dinner on the second
date, she lit up. I never used to consider myself really
anti-smoker, altho I've never been a smoker myself. But I
realized that night that I had never actually date a smoker
before. I realized this when I almost gagged kissing her.
The residual cigarette taste and smell was over-powering.
Now, I realize that for a whole younger generation, smoking
has become unfashionable. But this lady is 34 years old,
and has been smoking since she was 21. We've been out
several times since then, and are getting closer. So the
question is, how do you make it clear that the smoking makes
you want to gag, without alienating her and coming off like
some shrieking intolerant anti-smoking activist?
Any suggestions? Anyone else ever deal with a smoker?
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Message #16
From: Rob 285
To: George 133
Date: 03-14-91 07:41:27
Subject: SMOKE!
Be honest and tell her that kissing her is like kissing an ash tray.
Well mabye that is a bit drastic but do try to be honest. The 90's
is a decade full of fitness and health and keeps growing every day.
Point out to her the REAL dangers of smoking and ask her if she can
at least abstain from smoking around you. As you both grow closer
and see more and more of each other she will in turn be smoking less
that is if she does abstain from smoking around you. Also keep things
fun so that there is somthing always there to keep her mind off of
smoking. How ever this is a view of a non-smoker so I think it is
important to look at this situation from both sides.
Any other suggestions guys???
See Ya
ROB
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Message #17
From: Marc 21
To: George 133
Date: 03-14-91 10:03:39
Subject: Smoking...
George... I have had experience dating smokers. Let me tell you
this.... you will never change her.... so telling her it bothers
you will not change things. You have a decision to make... do you
want a smoker for a close compainion or not? Only you can make that
choice. But if you decide to stay with her, be prepared to live
with it... trying to get her to smoke will only cause problems.
In the immortal words of Super Chicken... 'You knew the job was dangerous
when you took it Fred'.
There can be comprimise... if you get married to her, she may
not mind smking outside or in a special smoking section of the house.
But you should have this issue settled well in advance. Don't spring
it on her. Decide now what you want in a person.... DO NOT TRY TO
CHANGE THEM....
marc
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Message #18
From: Jeff 122
To: George 133
Date: 03-14-91 19:30:31
Subject: Smoker...
There have been so many times when I have noticed some female somewhere,
thought she was attractive and then WHAM! Out comes the cigarettes,
and it's all over. I don't even LOOK again. Because I know that
A) I hate cigarettes. I hate the way they smell. I hate the way
they make YOU smell. I hate the way they make people TASTE. And,
B) I have absoulutely NO chance of making that person change themselves,
no matter what happens. And, C) Cigarette smoke makes me sick.
Being around smokers gives me a MONDO headache, makes it impossible
for me to breathe and does other nasty things to me. So why would
I want to be around someone that reminds me of how sick I get around
smokers??? Even if they don't smoke around me? YUCK!
Nope, George. It's not worth it. I also look at it in this light:
Everyone on this planet knows smoking kills you. And if someone
has so little respect for themselves and are so out of touch with
their body that they don't know what they are doing to it...well,
how can I expect them to be good for me at all?? Uh, uh, no thanks.
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Message #19
From: Brant 12
To: George 133
Date: 03-14-91 21:17:06
Subject: Smokers
I dated a girl that smoked back in high school....she also
chewed a lot of bubble gum, which made for a very sweet/ashy taste
when I kissed her.....like if you rolled a wet peice of gum around
in an ash tray, and then chewed it.....yum yum it's not
As for Marc's warning about not trying to change a smoker, I
agree that you can't try to force her to quit the habit, that's
something she has to do on her own motivation.....but I know a girl
that smokes occasionally, and she NEVER smokes around her boyfriend,
so change to that degree is possible.....
I would definitely let her know, as tactfully as possible, that
you would prefer she didn't smoke around you.....and be sure and
use positive reinforcement : first time you have a chance to smooch
when she has a clean taste, play it up, sit down and neck for 10
minutes......if like most girls she loves to kiss and get that much
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attention, this sort of reward will have far more effect than trying
to forbid her from smoking, and being angry when she does.....
....as for shrieking intolerant anti-smoking activism, I've found
that when you're dealing with strangers that smoke in areas they're
not supposed to, reasoning with them doesn't work.....I carry a little
net bag of dogshit with me, and when they refuse to stop smoking
in our communal air, I start swinging it around and around....SURE
it gets on them, and makes their clothes stink, but HEY, we all have
our little HABITS, right?
Brant
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Message #20
From: David 150
To: ...
Date: 03-15-91 00:14:53
Subject: Smokers and smoking.
A real tough subject. Both my parents are smokers. My little sister
and brother also smoke. I don't. ... .... Anyway,
as I was saying, I have dated smokers in the past, since it doesn't
really bother me that much. Only one had an objectional taste when
kissing. There is one lady I know that I've kissed while between
drags on her cig and she doesn't taste of smoke or cigarettes at
all. Beats me how she, or the others, do it .
Now, as to changing a smoker, well, the positive stuff is great and
you should use it a lot. But, you'll NEVER force a smoker to quit.
They have to want to do it and even then, you need to be positive
and help, not complain about failures. For many smoker, it's a crutch
because of being nervous besides being a habit. Many smokers
I've met have a lower self image of themselves, then a nonsmoker
does. Helping to make that smoker feel better about themselves will
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help a lot. .... Last of all, it all depends on how much you like
or love this smoker. For the lady I love and feel strongly about,
I will put up with her smoking. Maybe hoping and helping to get her
to stop, but never forcing. .... Gee, we all have our bad
habits, to some degree or another. She may not like the way you clean
your fingernails or comb your hair, or even the deoderant you use.
If you can look past the habits and see the person,
then maybe there's something there for you. If you can't, then maybe
she's not the one for you and you need to look some more.
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Message #21
From: Mickey 11
To: George133
Date: 03-15-91 01:12:09
Subject: Huffing about Puffing
CReffers to the rescue of another digital dilemma!
Lotsa great advice already posted.... I gotta agree
with Brant & Marc. Compromise may be feasible, but
forget about trying to break your belle of an addictive
habit she has had for so many years. The question ya
have to ask yourself is, can I live with a smoker ?
For me, like Jeff122, that answer would be a resounding NO.
Know just what ya mean Jeff... Brant and I have remarked
on the same phenomenon. Lighting up is an instantaneous
and irrevocable turn-off, a lasting negative first impression
that makes a caustic statement about your character, lack of
self-esteem, and lack of concern for the comfort and well-being
of those around you. Smoking makes your hair and clothes
stink, your breath unbearable, ruins your sense of taste,
and is a definite DONT DO on a first date, as George's wench
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seems to know. The whole subject raises the need for a
repeat posting of "Mickey's Delerious Dating Dictates".
(Remember that, DB ? Posted long ago on The Asylum as
"Binary Personality and How to Detect it" as I recall.)
Too lengthy and too late to get into it all now. But perhaps
an excerpt from the section on DONT DO's on a First Date......
DONT DO's FOR WOMEN (like George's girlfriend) ON A FIRST DATE:
1- Dont describe in great detail, the problems with your ovaries,
your thighs, or your mother.
2- Dont leave a copy of "Bride" magazine on the coffee table.
3- Dont put on your makeup at the dinner table.
4- Dont say things like "I love Lamborghinis" if your date is
driving a used Yugo.
5- Dont describe all your prior boyfriends as "insane dweebs
with tiny dicks."
6- Dont slip your phone number to the waiter.
7- Dont belch audibly, and then blow your nose on the tablecloth.
8- And never ever pull out a welding torch to light-up your
Julio Bros imported Cuban 6" cigar with aromatic leaf wrapper.
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Message #22
From: George 133
To: All
Date: 03-19-91 11:26:36
Subject: Thanks!
You guys won't believe how helpful you've been! I made a
hardcopy of all your anti-smoking messages, and gave it to
Leslie. After she got over being puzzled and pissed, she
got a laugh out of the whole thing. More importantly, it
got us talking about her smoking habits. Actually I didn't
have to say much. Your posts made every argument for me!
Although she agreed that breaking the habit altogether is
unlikely, she promised not to smoke on my house, car, or
anytime we're on a date. Works for me...for now!
But in case she lapses, I will prepare one of those little
swinging sacks of shit, and have a cigar-lighting blow torch
at ready access. Too funny! And Leslie would like to see
some Dating Don'ts for MEN. Maybe I can get her to logon
here. Doubt she will be willing to take on the whole board
on the smoking issue however! Thanks to those who posted!
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Message #23
From: Holly 294
To: All
Date: 03-20-91 19:48:53
Subject: Hi!
Hello everyone! I'm new to the board, and I guess I'm supposed to
introduce myself. I guess I'll start with the vital stats, though
you could get them from browsing me, I suppose . . . I'm 29 years
old, live in San Clemente, and have recently become a first grade
teacher. That may SOUND easy, but it's kept me very challenged,
so I spend a lot of my time just trying to become the best teacher
I can be--I got my masters in education in November, and I still
take classes a couple nights a week on subjects ranging from self-esteem
to computer technology to elementary science. I never thought there'd
be so much to learn just to teach 6 year olds! Anyway, when I'm
not in class (teaching one or taking one), I enjoy getting together
with friends, going out to eat (I LOVE interesting and exotic food,
and anything HOT and SPICY!), seeing movies, plays, shows, etc.
I'm not much of a sports person, though I force myself to run and
lift weights to stay in shape (and counteract the stress of being
in a room with 28 six year olds all day!). I just got my modem for
Christmas, so much of my free time is spent exploring the fascinating
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world of BBSing. I'm finding it rather addicting! Anyway . . .
I'm looking forward to some E-mail exchanges with some of you, and
hopefullly I can even put some faces to names at one of the excursions!
Until then . . .
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Message #24
From: Robert 231
To: PB's
Date: 05-29-91 18:09:27
Subject: My kind of woman
Girls are always asking what the hell guys want in women
anyways. Just perfection in form and personality, that's all.
I just found it - in the June issue of Playboy. Have you guys
seen LISA MATTHEWS, the 91 PlayMate of the Year? My kind of
woman: 5'9" tall with long legs, and long blond hair to match.
Very attractive in a very wholesome sort of girl-next-door way.
I wished I lived next door, in Ventura, where Lisa is from.
Refreshing attitude too, in the issue's interview. Notice of
Playboy's annual winners have improved since they began letting
the readers do the voting! Here's a far better rep for our
beautiful Southern Cal women than the typical beach bimbette.
She's 22 years old too - perfect! Why is it that so many
women butch off their long locks when they get older? Guys
love long hair, and short hair only makes women look old.
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Message #25
From: David 150
To: all
Date: 05-30-91 00:02:08
Subject: Women with long hair.
Yep. They do look better with long hair, I have to agree. .....
.... However, it falls in my face and tickles my nose when she's
on top. .. So, just off the shoulder is fine with me. .....
... Also, I kinda liked Vickie LaMotta when she was in a photo spread.
Now, there's a woman! Yum.
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Message #26
From: Gerry 261
To: Robert 231
Date: 05-30-91 05:05:19
Subject: Women and Long Hair
I like whatever looks best on a particular woman. My Lady Susan
had her hair extremely short on top for a time, with just a bit of
shag in the back. The hair was as short as a crewcut. I loved it!
There was something wild and primitive about it ... rather like pierced
ears. She just happened to have the hairline and face shape to get
away with that. She'd would not look good in long hair, and others
might look only silly with such a cut.
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Message #27
From: JONI 354
To: Robert 231
Date: 07-17-91 17:52:53
Subject: women !
{Personally, I think women's lib sucks !!! But more than that, I
think guys with certain attitudes suck even bigger !!!! I myself,
would probably feel more comfortable without all the equality crap,
but I do ask{guys out, and when they accept (hint hint, you know
who you are !!){I will go out with them. But I also like to be treated
{ike a lady, even if I'm the one who did the asking. That is something
that most guys today have forgotten how to do. Even if I'm dressed
in a tight pair of levis, I still deserve to be treated properly.....
not like a commodity or somethi{g that is purchased or fought over.
That type {f action went out long ago....... Guys beware, t{ere are
still some of us who like the way we used to be treated and I, for
one, never asked for things to change. If y{u don't like it, change
it !!!!!!
P.S. I also wear dresses, long, short, tight, loose, low cut, or
turtle neck........{..but I still would like to be treated like a
person !!!!
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Message #28
From: George 133
To: Robert 231
Date: 07-18-91 12:44:17
Subject: Try Bud Dry
It has been said that the only true romantics are men.
This is true, in part, because western culture has placed the
role of sexual aggressor on the male. But it's also true that
women revel in their role, or at least rely on it to avoid having
to do the awkward dating rituals, like asking. But Robert, part
of your frustration is undoubtedly the particular women you're
interested in here. At that age, and in environments like Palm
Springs or the River, you're going to find just the sort of vain,
immature women, that are only looking for a dance partner, who
you characterize. I'll tell you this, however - things do improve
with age. Women become much more outgoing and aggressive as they
grow older. So you have something to look forward to!
I personally don't agree with Joni and David. First, I think
the Women's Lib movement both benefitted women and our society.
We're still trying to get a grip on some troubling consequences,
like child care, and female death rates, but overall it has been
beneficial. I do feel that women are hypocritical at times in
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their equality, invoking women's lib when it behooves them, and
invoking old-fashioned values when that behooves them.
Second, I'm really sick of the male bashing going on in our society
today. Comments like David's are typical. Here's a scenario
where a guy has a specific gripe against some female behavior,
and somebody manages to twist it around into a male fault!
We see American men being bashed in movie and TV programs, in
advertising, and even in the courtroom. Where is the "equality"
in divorce court, or in child custody issues, or sexual harrassment
cases? Women didn't stand for this kind of negative stereotyping,
and misrepresentation at the hands of the law. Why do men?
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Message #29
From: Brant 12
To: ALL
Date: 07-19-91 12:29:01
Subject: The Changing roles of the Sexes in the '90's
({
I agree with the vast majority of what George expressed,
both on some female hypocrisy taking advantage of Women's Lib,
and also the male bashing prevalent in many areas, particularly
advertising. (Like for instance, David, when you see home-cleaning
products advertised, and the wife is a smug know-it-all, and the
husband is a hopeless bumbling fool....this may endear watching
housewives, but there is a growing backlash){
As for "being treated like a lady", Joni, versus "treat me
like a person", aye, there's the rub.......the modern view of good
treatment is essentially asexual, where NO ONE is a sex object
(I think the worst examples of this are some of the new-found
"liberated" women, who have moved into the traditionally male world
of high incomes and stress, and unfortunately have also adopted some
{of the worst of the traditionally male attitudes regarding sex objects,
treating men like sex machines that are ready to do anybody anytime)
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The toughest part of relationships in the 80's and 90's is that
the "new order" of equality has not stabilized, or become homogenous.
Compare this to the 1950's, when nearly everyone in America knew
their role, enjoyed conforming, and therefore had very little doubt
as to the rights or wrongs of behavior in any situation.
While I personally welcome the ranks of women to share all aspects
of traditionally male life, I do recognize that there is a broad
spectrum of beliefs and attitudes in todays society.....women's attitudes
vary from the 50's leftovers of wanting to stay in the traditionally
female roles, thru the "let's be equls" attitudes, to the militant
"men are pigs" Cosmo attitudes.....at the same time men's attitudes
vary from the same 50's conservatives, thru the "let's be equals",
to the overly sensitive weakling typified by "Evan" in the Bud Dry
commercials.
I also agree with George as to the continuing inequality
in the child custody, divorce, and sexual harrassement courts....these
are leftovers from the old days, and they need to be brought up to
equality.....it would seem that while Women's Lib has won ground
in many areas where women suffered inequities, it is now up to
"Men's Lib" to rectify those areas where men suffer inequities.
I think the biggest challenge for people in today's world is
twofold : first, to develop and follow their own codes of action
in the modern world. Men particularly, suffer from a lack of a
modern role model, but for both sexes we are cutting new paths
in social behavior. Secondly, the trick lies in learning what
types of people share your particular feelings regarding all these
new rights and behaviors, then recognizing and cultivating them as
friends and lovers.
Brant
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Message #30
From: Mickey 11
To: Robert 231
Date: 07-20-91 11:36:33
Subject: Miller Genuine Draft for me...
Has it occurred to you that perhaps the individual women you've
been chasing were either not interested in you, or were not interested
in what you were offering. As George suggested, you don't go to
places like the river or PS to find lasting, meaningful relationships.
You go out there for a good time, dude, not to find a girlfriend.
Consider it a good time if you enjoy a woman's company for the
day or the week, but don't be disappointed if she doesn't conceal
herself in your luggage for the return trip home!
Nevertheless, I understand what you have your cork in a screw about.
There's alot of vain flirting and flaunting by women at that age.
It's a way for young women to be validated. I share George's
experience, however.... Things get much better with age! First,
those raging hormones that have been flowing thru your veins like
so much Jolt Cola since you were about 15, begin to subside.
Second, as they grow older, women become more self-confident in
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their sexuality. They grow more comfortable, and more aggressive.
This includes things like asking guys out on dates, as well as
initiating sex. Third, thru most of your life, there have been
slightly more males than females. Mother Nature has taken
careful consideration of the fact that mortality rates for males
under age 25 are higher than for females under 25, due to in large
part to males' self-destructive behavior, wars, etc. Starting
at age 25, you'll find slightly more females than males. This
demographic fact continues for the remainder fo your life.
So ya see, Robert, ya DO have something to look forward to!
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Message #31
From: Julie 50
To: Robert
Date: 07-28-91 16:04:57
Subject: Cake and eat it too......
well, I think men can be put in that catagory too, expecially if
you are looking to meet people in places you are referring to...the
river and palm springs. Can you honestly say you would expect to
find anything more than alot of 'show-boating' and flirting in those
places? I definitely would not take men seriously.
I think the sexually revolution is more than just the dating scene.
There is alot of validity in Brant's post of a flux between the 50's
and today. Yes, if women want equality they should feel o.k. in asking
men out and paying for somethings. But you have to remember not all
women maybe in the economical position that men are, and may not feel
comfortable in that position either. I feel the older women get the
more self confident we become. Remember, alot of women are still
being raised by the product of the 50's and we have not reached totally
equality of the sexes. And in Brant's post that goes the same for
men, i.e. child custody and divorces.
In short Robert, if you are looking for something, a good relationship
with a woman, you should look elsewhere than the river and palm springs.
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There people play and want their cake, and to eat it too.
Maybe try asking friends to set you up, or I have found health clubs
can sometimes be a nice place to meet quality people, at least it
has been for me............
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Message #32
From: Robert 231
To: Mickey 11
Date: 07-31-91 11:31:14
Subject: Ouch!
Ouch, just bruised my ego! Sure, I had considered that
they obviously weren't interested in me. Rejection is tough
to take, but that's not what started this debate among my group
in Palm Springs. What actually got this whole thing going
was our observation that these bimbos weren't interested in
anyone! See, we were sitting at the table just behind this
group of girls at Pompeii's. They were all 21-23 or so,
all babes, and all dressed to kill, looking really good. They
were obviously drinking alot and having a good time. For the
most part they were all facing away from our table, looking down
toward the door and dance floor. And all they were doing was
ripping on guys they saw, or those who came up and asked one of
them to dance. The shit they were saying was amazing, stuff
guys should hear more often. They commented on a few dudes they
obviously liked, but never asked anyone to dance themselves.
They just typified what guys suspect and resent about women
and the sexual roles we're forced into and they enjoy. First,
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they're totally hypocritical. Women always blast guys for judging
women on looks, the old "10" scale and all that. But they do the
same damn thing, maybe just more discretely most of the time.
These girls were outspoken cuz they were drinking, and didn't realize
we were eavedropping on them. And women are hypocritical cuz
while they enjoy all sorts of sexual equality they never had in
Western societies in past generations, they still enjoy the benefits
of very old fashioned sexual roles when it comes to dating. They
turn on the seductiveness, but wait for the guys to make the moves,
and then blast them when they do. None of the girls ever asked
one of the guys with the good butts they liked to dance, but they
sure criticised guys that asked them for their "dumb come-ons."
Women are cowards! They are vain, hypocritical cowards when it
comes to dating and sexual roles.
Yes, perhaps some of the frustration comes from the particular
scene. I wasn't surprised nobody jumped in my luggage at PS.
But I do look forward to this day when the demographics start
favoring the guys, and when the women start becoming more confident
and aggressive. Just when is this, Julie?
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Message #33
From: Mickey 11
To: Magicians
Date: 11-08-91 10:34:48
Subject: Cumming to the AID of your Johnson...
....Guess his Johnson wasn't magic enough. What a bummer, both
for the Lakers, and for Magic personally, who seems to be a really
decent human being. But geeoood.... Judging from yesterday's
media coverage, you would have thought the President had been
asassinated!
....Magic is going to do far more to raise consciousness about AIDS
than Rock Hudson did. The media will see to that! After all,
ol' Rock was taking it up the butt... one of those "high risk"
activities for contracting AIDS. Anyone CAN get the disease,
but most all of those who have actually contracted it are those
engaging in high risk activities......
1- Homosexuality
2- Slamming dope into your arms
3- Sex with prostitutes
4- Tainted blood transfusions
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5- Invasive medical procedures
6- Traumatic contact with someone infected
7- Promiscuous & unprotected sex
The vast majority of those who have contracted AIDS to date fall
within those first two catagories. Heterosexual sex with a partner
who does not engage in any of the first six practices is the least
likely way of contracting AIDS. The last figure I read (about
a year old) was that statistically your odds of contracting AIDS
from a single act of heterosexual sex was 1 in 900,000. That
makes sex with a responsible partner seem pretty safe.
How good ol' Magic contracted the disease wasn't specified in
yesterday's press conference. However, I just have a hunch we
can rule out homos, heroin, and prostitutes. Medical and traumatic
contact are possibilities. But I imagine when you're one of the
world's most famous and wealthy basketball players, you get ALOT
of interesting offers...from very willing women. It's sad to think
that one of his ladies may have given it to him, but it does seem
the most likely. If so, and if he continues to conduct himself
as he did yesterday, and receives such media attention, Magic Johnson
may well become the definitive POSTER BOY for AIDS in mainstream
America.... "If he can get AIDS, anyone can get AIDS." Magic's
disease may do more than Rock Hudson's or all the statistics in
the newspaper to bring the disease out of the closet.
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Message #34
From: Nancy 211
To: Vickie 317
Date: 11-13-91 11:52:41
Subject: HIV in women
It may well be a fact that more men in general have HIV than women
but I believe it is only because less women have bothered to be tested.
I work in a hospital and we frequently make the first diagnosis
of HIV or AIDS when women are sick and in the hospital. Most of
the men we see have already been diagnosed. This is only MY observation
but it is a frequent observation.
If you want to do a survey, then first ask yourself if you have bothered
to be tested...I have. We should all be tested and know our status.
What we did 10 years ago does matter.
Gawd, I feel like I just did a sermon. Sorry bout that. :)
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Message #35
From: Brant 12
To: Nancy 211
Date: 11-13-91 20:19:27
Subject: HIV testing
I agree people these days should be tested.....and the best
way to motivate that is for women (ever the sexually responsible
gender) to require their men to get tested, and a couple thinking about
going ballistic, I mean starting a sexual relationship, could show
each other their....negative results.
I've been tested.....a mere few months ago, and no new sexual
partners since then, gosh ding it.....the Public Health Lab of the
Orange County Health Care Agency does it for free......it's a walk
in, 5 mins to take a blood sample (they open a new needle container
in front of you, and wear a new pair of rubber gloves), and you get
a numbered receipt......
Two weeks later, you call and get an appointment time, and walk
in, 5 mins in a private room to give you the results, and you walk
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out.....happily armed with your ticket to ride.....heh
When I got my results, there was a very finely groomed young
man in the waiting area, big studly guy, crying his eyes out behind
sun glasses........after all, being HIV positive IS a death sentence,
10 years tops, 2 or 3 average. If you test positive on the first ELISA test,
they repeat it, and if that is positive as well, they do the more
expensive (and far less false positives) test...I forget what it's
called.....
OC Health is located at 1729 W. 17th St, in Santa Ana....it's
just west of Bristol on 17th, right across the street from Santa
Ana college (now called Rancho Santiago college, ha)....the section
that does the testing is the Special Diseases lab...ask at the Info
desk and they'll direct you what color line on the floor to follow....
They recommend that anyone who has had unprotected sex (they
mean without a condom, not paternity insurance!) in the last 7 or
8 years get tested......or shared needles.....and they mean hypo's,
not biting repartee....
There's a hotline number : 1-800-922-2437
Spanish Speaking : 1-800-222-7432
Hearing Impaired / TDD : 1-800-553-2437
Oh ya, if you were captured in suspense, my results were NEGATIVE
("HIV antibody NOT detected.")
Your neighborhood Clean Machine,
TasT Rex
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Message #36
From: Mickey 11
To: Yous'All
Date: 11-21-91 11:40:56
Subject: Only the Best...
Welp, as announced on the hatter board, our very own
Admiral13 and Cathy22 are getting married on January 11th.
The Admiral has asked me to be his Best Man.... quite an
honor! Now, the question is...what all are the duties
and privileges of the Best Man ?? Has anyone here ever
been a Best Man before ? Besides popping a Valium down
the Groom's throat before hitting the altar, whatdya do ?
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Message #37
From: CHARLES 425
To: Mickey 11
Date: 11-21-91 19:56:24
Subject: The best....
Having done this duty i will tell you that you have 3 primary duties.
One, the keg for the bachelor party is solely your responsibility,
but then so is drinking it. You'll want to feed the groom to be something
a bit more potent, like party pee. Two, The stripper is also your
responsibiliy, and the success of the party rests on the "quality"
of the entertainment. Three, you gotta get the groom to be so damned
plastered that he will be totally unable to make a mad dash for the
side door of the church during the ceremony. This state of dimentia
to which you will elevate him will also provide for numbing all other
though processes. He won't remember what he is doing and the recovery
period will be long enough that by the time he comes around it will
be too late.
To Admiral: if you read this. Congratulations and best wishes.
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Message #38
From: Admiral 13
To: Charles/ Mick/ all
Date: 11-22-91 21:37:29
Subject: Hahahaha....
Thanks, thanks, and thanks. Yep, the Ad man is attaching the
ball & chain to his ankle. It's drydock for this naval man.
Oh well, plans for the wedding seem to be about complete. Not
bad, considering about 2 weeks ago, we finally got a reception location{
This won't be any hokey wedding, either. It'll be stocked with hosted
bar, gourmet food, and 16 piece big band!If you're invited, consider
yourself lucky!...hehe (no modesty here).
To those of you that are wondering, "WHO THE HELL IS THE ADMIRAL,
ANYWAY?", you're not alone. The past few months have been busy
ones,{but I want all of my friends to know that you're not forgotten.
I think of you guys always...
Anyway, about the Best man's duties... Charles, I think the
Mick has taken the duties of{Best man rather seriously. It appears
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that I will have one HELLUVA bachelor party, and to just have a keg
there would be cheapening it. I'm obviously not privvy to al{ the
details, but I know I'M bringing my slicker!!
That's it for now. I just have one more thing to say...
"I'm in HELL! SHOOT ME! SHOOT ME!!!"
Thank you.
-Ad.
9111.22
2130h
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Message #39
From: Charlie 38
To: Mickey 11
Date: 11-23-91 08:13:21
Subject: Best man duties
Recently I was the best man in a wedding and quite honestly,
I really didn't know what the hell I was doing. Part of the
problems related to the groom (that he said he didn't want
any female entertainment at his bachelor party and then I learned
that some guys mean yes when they say no) but other problems
were related to some traditions that are not universally held
by all. Case in point, the groomsmen get the bride and groom
a gift that they can use at the wedding (toasting goblets, a
cake serving set, etc...) and this present is given at the
rehearsal dinner. I learned of this tradition AT the rehearsal
dinner and after I discussing this tradition with others I found out
that this tradition is not widely held......but hell, I did not
know if the bride and groom held it.
Outside of what Charles has mentioned, and being at all the functions...
including rehearsals, rehearsal dinners, showers, etc......Don't
forget the post wedding activities: making a toast at the reception,
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