File Name: 0018.FEM

Ä Area: FEMINISM ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
  Msg#: 875                                          Date: 08-22-98  07:04
  From: David Rice                                   Read: Yes    Replied: No 
    To: Rick Jones                                   Mark:                     
  Subj: Stopping the Stalker
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 -=> Quoting Rick Jones to David Rice <=-

>DR> It is my contention that there is a
>DR> genetic disposition (nature, not nurture) for males to stalk
>DR> females, and not the other way around. 

RJ> That's nonsense.  There IS a genetic predisposition
RJ> for males to seek out and mate with females, and they
RJ> are genetically predisposed to be the aggressive part
RJ> of the relationship. (Similarly, females are genetically
RJ> predisposed to display themselves to males and select from
RJ> among as wide a group as possible.) 
RJ> 
RJ> "Stalking," however, is a specific type of criminal
RJ> behaviour, not a generic term for a mating ritual.
RJ> Stalking is no more "Genetically predisposed" because
RJ> of mating instinct than mail fraud is "genetically
RJ> presdisposed" because of the instinctive behaviours that
RJ> surround the acquisition of material goods, related to
RJ> mating and child rearing. You have to be a little more
RJ> careful with your wording, David.
 
You "have" to be a bit more careful with your scholarship,
Rick. Why in the world would you imply that I believe stalking
is a mating ritual?! Stalking behavior is demonstrated in all
of the great apes (orang-utan, human, chimpanzee, gorilla).
Sure it is a criminal behavior in human society, but there
is a very clearly defined set of stalking behaviors that
appear to be genetically defined. There are strong evolutionary
pressures that encourage male stalking behavior among the apes.
This genetic predisposition can be moderated by socialization
(such as with the Bonobo chimpanzees and the humans), but it
can never be eliminated.

It is a damn shame that stalking behavior is not completely
socialized. If it were so, stalking (and I suspect senseless
male violence in general) could in theory be eliminated.

_Demonic Males_ Richard Wrangham and Dale Peterson. 1996,
350 pages (including index). ISBN 0-395-69001-3. (Includes
a fine chapter on relationship violence among the apes
and another on gang violence.)

_Primate Societies_ Barbara B. Smuts, Dorothy L. Cheney,
Robert M. Seyfarth, and Thomas T. Struhsaker. (An anthology
of social primate behavior.)

_Ecological Aspects of Social Evolution: Birds and Mammals_
Richard Wrangham and Daniel I. Rubenstein. (Includes a rather
basic discourse on evolutionary pressures that lead to violent
males.)

_Visions of Calian: On Chimpanzees and People_ Jame Goodall
and Dale Peterson. (Parallels human ape behavior with the
behavior of the other apges, with a fairly good attempt at
not anthropormorphisation.)

_Male Violence_ John Archer, 1988, Routledge press (London
or New York---- I forget).

"Infant Killing in Primates." _American Anthropologist_ #95,
pg 958-990. (Excellent evolutionary pressure hypothesis on
why killing infants is geneticallt favored.)

"Female Participation in Gangs." _Gangs in America_ Anne
Campbell, 1990. (Discusses imitation by females of male
violence, vs. female prediliction for violence.)

... If nudity was natural, we all would have been born naked.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.11