By dan.mckinnon@canrem.com (Dan Mckinnon)
Mon, 15 May 95 12:29:00 -0500

Well, I hope my message got through in time for some of you to tape Donahue. AS I mentioned, my VCR tape playing mechanism is broken, but at the last minute I realized that my stereo output from the VCR goes into my dual casette decks hooked up to an ancient (1975) quadrophonic system.

So I got a good, clear audio tape, missing only a few seconds when I had to flip it, as only had 30-min/side tape.

* An important point Phil Donahue made 1/2-way through the show:

Scientology made them have an agreement that anybody that had a "grievance" with $cientology could not be on stage.

Transcripts are available for $3.00 U.S. from:

Journal Graphics 1535 Grant Street Denver, Colorado 80203

Video tapes are available for $24.95 - ph. 1-800-FOR-VIDEO.

"Reverend" Heber Jentzsch was the first & main guest.

He's 50ish, gray hair and glasses, reminded me a bit of Ed McMahon, Johnny Carson's sidekick.

What follows are paraphrases, I can't take shorthand, and am not willing to review tape to extent to get quotes perfect and complete. And it tends to the impressionistic. <G>

Phil started by saying that $cientology is a "fabulously successful business operation". Asked "how much is auditing?" Took him several tries while Jentzsch tried to talk around that.

Heber: $150 - 200 /hour.

Phill: asks about $1250 for 12.5 hour courses.

Phil asks him to "kindly answer questions."

Phil mentions about people who defect being threatened with exposure of what they said in auditing.

Heber: Lies based on what said in media - never proved.

Inter-break: Picture of Celebrity Centre in Beverly Hills, I think. Looks a little like a miniature castle at the top. Also, several clips during show - in and out-fades of Kirstie Alley, John Travolta, Tom Cruise sitting together and giving enthusiastic endorsement. Also Anne Archer, I think it was.

Phil brings up psychiatry.

Heber: Not a science - brutally done on people - ECT and lobotomies.

Phil says that is a "red herring" to attack psychiatry. "Psychiatry is your biggest competitor." Also mentions Prozac as attacked for same reason - "The more that take Prozac, the less that take Dianetics."

Good line from Phil: "$cientology feels about psychiatry the way Coke feels about Pepsi!" <Eidtorial <G>>

Phill: There's always another level to take. Brings up vitamin regime.

Phill: You artificially put Dianetics on the best-seller list.

Phill: Are you still suing TIME?

Heber: Says criminals interviewd for article. Main one in jail for doing what he accuses COS of.

Phill: asks about Hill and Knowlton. (was prestigious PR firm COS used) Heber: Says COS sued them and settled out of court

Phil says $cientology is "a shell game franchise less interested in clearing than in new recruits."

Heber: "Millions are watching who know that is not true." Implication that there _are_ millions of members, and they are all watching! <G>

Heber: Slams/ DA's TIME for making Hitler & Stalin "man of year". Phill: They can be good _or_ evil to be men of year - Phil quite incensed at this stupidity.

Phill: Mentions Judge Reckinridge and his decision.

Heber: Small part of case.

Phill: Germany said $cientology not a religion.

Heber: That's a lie ...and gives reason why - forget remarks.

Phill: "Could you not say I mis-spoke?" (He was a lttle peeved, of course - I think he was prepared for some COS tactics)

Clip of LRH interview. First time I've heard voice. Speech and attitude reminds me of Richard Nixon - explains a lot.

Guests barbara and Sue Wiseman come on. Phil says she was in bad shape before joining COS. She says, no, staff misunderstood - she had said COS saved her life. Says it was because she had to go to Dr. for exam as a condition (of doing purification, I think) and he found arteriosclerosis etc. Then she claims it disappeared after COS.

Phill: Brings up $1200 purification program.

Heber: says it "gets rid of residual drugs"

Phill: Then we're talking about biochemics, not a religion.

Phill: Muses about why he can't be a religion - often discusses spirituality on show - could use the tax breaks.

Patricia Jones and Rev. Alfreddie Johnson on next. Rev. J. says he uses LRH study tech to help inner city kids learn to read.

Pat J. is angry about church's detractors - "Scientology is my religion." Uses it every day in life to raise kids, etc. Wants to "remove insults" about COS.

Phill: asks Jentzsch where you go after death.

Heber: You go on - have more than 1 life.

A. Johnson says he started "World Literacy Crusade"

J. Mentions 17 million copies of Dianetics sold.

Q:(Question from audience) Asks Jentzsch about his qualifications. He says he has a BA in fine arts, studied philosophy and such. Questioner seems not impressed. Somebody says that fro cousnelling eople need high qualifications. At one poing Jentzsch says COS training was "the equivalent of a 4-year college degree". <!G>

Q: can I get a degree in $cientology anywheres?

Member of COS in audience gives testimonial. Says she is a graduate of Tufts - is a physiotherapist, kinestiologist too, I think. Woman in 40's with longish black hair. Tells boy who asks how much COS auditing costs that you can buy copy of book for 5 dollars or so, get a friend, and do it yourselves.

Now - my favourite part, since I live in Toronto: <G> -near end-

A man in audience says he is an retired Toronto police detective of 33 years. Says a few years ago they did a search of COS building - "well documented in criminal records". COS infiltrated, as civilian members: Toronto Police, Ontario Provincial Police, Durham and Peel Regions police forces. Worked in records sections. arrested for divulging confidential info on people. Phil: People who would be their enemy, or percieved? Ex-PO: Exactly. Says several times that COS is "very controversial" That is police polite speak for a much harsher condemnation, I would say.

DAN: Summation, all in all worth watching, despite absence of informed critics - especially I regret that the Internet and occurrences as a result of ars not mentioned. Perhaps because of inability to bring critics forward on show.

It is obvious, as participants here can affirm, that a good 2-hour documentary is what is needed. Or at least 5 hours of talk show! <G>

Dan