On Mon, 10 Sep 2001 15:27:34 GMT, hkhenson@home.com (Keith Henson) wrote:
(to page 151) 1 Q. And what is your occupation there, what's your job? 2 A. I'm a general manager for Golden Era. 3 Q. As a general manager what do your duties include? 4 A. Well, the general operations of the studio, you 5 know, making sure that, you know, we produce all the films on 6 time and just the general actions of getting done what we get 7 done there at the studios. 8 Q. Is security an area or part of your job? 9 A. Yeah, that would be an area under me. 10 MR. SCHWARZ: Okay. May I approach, your Honor? 11 THE COURT: Yes. 12 MR. SCHWARZ: Can everyone see this? 13 MR. HARR: Your Honor, can I please move over here 14 to the right so I can kind of see that exhibit a little 15 better? 16 THE COURT: You can move over there. You can sit on 17 the bench there if you want to. 18 MR. SCHWARZ: Let the record reflect that the People 19 approached the witness with what's been previously marked as 20 People's Exhibit Number 26. 21 THE COURT: All right. 22 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Mr. Hoden, can you tell me what 23 that is? 24 A. Well, that's a map of our property. 25 Q. And can you briefly describe what that map depicts 26 exactly? 27 A. Well, that's the -- the physical boundaries of our 28 property, and this -- well - 136 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 Q. Mr. Hoden, you can get up. 2 A. Okay. Well, it's just a position. Sanderson goes 3 this way, and this is, like, the mountains. And State Street 4 is -- goes down over here, and then the junior college is over 5 in this area here. And the property is bisected or cut in 6 half by Highway 79. So it comes from this way and then goes 7 over across the State Street Bridge and goes down State 8 Street. And the property is basically broken up into three 9 general areas. The far easterly side, there's a public, 10 nine-hole golf course in this particular area. And then the 11 central portion is where all the studio grounds are. And then 12 this section here is a vacant land area. And the little blue 13 boxes that are on here, these are actually buildings that are 14 on the property. And there's about 43 buildings on the 15 property. This one here looks like a castle when you drive 16 along the highway. That's actually a film studio. In other 17 words, inside it's all open, like it's a very, very large, 18 open, about four stories high, and that's where they shoot the 19 films in there, where they shoot the films. And then this is 20 a large dining hall that we have. This is a chapel, different 21 office buildings. Over here these are all different music 22 studios that we have on the grounds. And then this is the 23 main administrative building, and that's where my office is. 24 That's generally what the property is. And as I said, the 25 mountains are here, so it's generally like that. 26 Q. Thank you. You can have a seat. 27 Since the property is bisected by Highway 79 as 28 you've previously testified, how do you get from the -- what 137 Amanda M. Fagan, C.O.S.. #8764 RJR 1 would be the south portion of your property to the north 2 portion of your property? 3 A. Well, the way we do that is through two pedestrian 4 tunnels. We have one located about right here, and one 5 located right there. And years ago people used to have to run 6 across the highway. It was a little bit dangerous. So we put 7 these two tunnels in. That way you can just walk through the 8 tunnel. It's a big, wide, pedestrian tunnel. So that way if 9 you're eating on the south side and you go back to work, you 10 just go through the tunnel and go back and forth. 11 Q. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Hoden. Do you know Keith 12 Henson? 13 A. Yes, I do. 14 Q. And do you see him in the courtroom today? 15 A. Yes, I do. 16 Q. Could you please point that person out and name an 17 article of clothing that he or she is wearing? 18 A. Yes. It's that gentleman there, and I think he has 19 a blue coat on. 20 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you. May the record reflect 21 that the witness identified the defendant? 22 THE COURT: Yes. 23 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Given the relevant time period 24 that we're talking about in this case, starting in May, 2000, 25 when was the first time you laid eyes on Mr. Henson? 26 A. It was in late May or early June of 2000. 27 Q. And under what circumstances did you see him? 28 A. I saw him walking along the highway. 138 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. He was carrying a sign. 3 Q. And what knowledge did you have about Keith Henson 4 at that time? 5 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, no foundation. 6 THE COURT: Sustained. 7 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Did you have any previous 8 knowledge about Mr. Henson? 9 A. Yes, I did. 10 Q. And did you -- and what was the nature of your 11 knowledge? 12 A. Well, I had received - 13 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, no foundation as 14 to what -- and relevancy. 15 THE COURT: Sustained. Sustained. 16 MR. SCHWARZ: Okay. I'll rephrase. 17 Q. Mr. Hoden, you indicated that you have some 18 knowledge about Mr. Henson; where did that knowledge come 19 from? 20 A. Well, I received a number of postings - 21 THE COURT: Excuse me, sir, where did the knowledge 22 come from? 23 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry, okay. From our church in 24 Los Angeles, our headquarters. 25 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Okay. And what information was 26 presented to you by the church? 27 A. I had a number of postings and I had other 28 information. 139 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 Q. For the jury's benefit, what do you mean by 2 "posting"? 3 A. I'm sorry. Written materials that were put on the 4 internet, and then they were just printed off. In other 5 words, different types of -- I'm not a computer expert, but 6 just certain things where you can send e-mail to one another, 7 different people send it, and there's little news boards where 8 you can put postings, or where you can write and other people 9 can look at it and add various things to it. And a number of 10 these things were on there, and they're there for the whole 11 world to see. In other words, anybody who logs in, I guess, 12 can take a look at these things. And those were printed off 13 and sent to me, a number of those regarding Mr. Henson. There 14 was other material, other documents sent to me regarding 15 Mr. Henson. 16 Q. Now, can you be more specific? What other materials 17 did you receive? 18 A. Well, I received a book that was about -- not about 19 Mr. Henson, but talked about some of Mr. Henson's exploits. 20 Q. Can you tell me the name of that book? 21 A. If I can remember the name of it. It was the Mumbo 22 -- Mambo Chicken and the Transhuman Condition, something like 23 that. 24 Q. The Great Mambo Chicken and the Transhuman 25 Condition? 26 A. That's correct. 27 Q. So have you seen this book before? 28 A. Yes, I have. 140 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 Q. Okay. And we'll get to the book later. 2 A. Okay. 3 Q. What other information did you receive? 4 A. I received some court documents at one time, just 5 different things about Mr. Henson. 6 Q. Okay. And the documents that you received, 7 generally what were they about? 8 A. Well, they were about - 9 MR. HARR: Objection - 10 THE COURT: Excuse me. 11 MR. HARR: Calls for a conclusion, and relevancy. 12 THE COURT: Sustained. 13 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): We'll go back to the book then. 14 In this book what did you read about -- in it exactly? 15 A. I'm sorry, I didn't hear that question. 16 Q. I'll repeat it. In the book, in this Great Mambo 17 Chicken and the Transhuman Condition, is Mr. Henson in the 18 book? 19 A. Well, his name is mentioned in this book quite a 20 bit, actually. 21 Q. Okay. And in what context is Mr. Henson spoken 22 about or written about? 23 A. Well, in two aspects. One, the book goes into the 24 fact that he is a bomb expert as -- has extensive history in 25 being able to set off bombs, that he would go out into the 26 desert and set off a bomb. Some of these were very, very 27 large bombs, one that gave the impression that -- when it went 28 off it looked like an atomic bomb. In other words, it talks 141 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 about his ability to, one, be a bomb expert, and actually 2 going out and setting off bombs, making bombs, building them. 3 Q. Okay. And did this give you cause for concern? 4 A. Sure. Yes, it did. 5 Q. Okay. Now, you had a number of, you indicated, some 6 internet postings that were given to you; can you tell us what 7 other observations you had with respect to Mr. Henson? 8 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, as far as time, 9 date, place, too broad. 10 MR. SCHWARZ: I thought we were talking about May of 11 2000. 12 THE COURT: Then that's when we're talking about, 13 Counsel, apparently. 14 MR. HARR: All right. Thank you. 15 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): For the record, in the relevant 16 period between May of 2000 and September of 2000 what did you 17 observe with respect to Mr. Henson? 18 A. Well, I saw a number of things. One, when he showed 19 up at the church in late May or early June and he was there 20 for about three months, and he would show up day after day 21 after day for close to 40 days or more. It just went day 22 after day. And what he would do is he would go along the 23 highway, and as I explained, we have the two pedestrian 24 tunnels. And what he would do is he would run along to the 25 top of the tunnel, and as the staff, the church staff would 26 finish a meal, or were going from one building to another, he 27 would stand over the top of the tunnel and he would jeer or 28 cackle at the staff in there. And then what he would do is he 142 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 would go home that night, or wherever he went to, and then he 2 would go and post all the things that he did during the day on 3 the internet so that everybody in the world could read them. 4 And what he would do is when the -- all our staff, we have 5 about 750 staff, and they all live in Hemet and San Jacinto. 6 Only about ten or 12 people actually live at the property. So 7 when they would come in the morning in their cars or their 8 buses, or they would pull in, he would be there in the morning 9 standing in front of the gate, running around the buses, you 10 know, yelling at the staff in the buses, glaring at the women 11 that were driving in their cars. He would then after awhile 12 -- because I was getting concerned in light of the fact that I 13 had earlier postings at that time that not only is contained 14 in that book, but also other postings about him setting off 15 other huge bombs, one of which he set off a bomb that - 16 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor. May I approach 17 the bench? 18 THE COURT: What is your objection? 19 MR. HARR: Of the postings that have been 20 authenticated I believe that's not among them. 21 THE COURT: Sustained. 22 MR. SCHWARZ: It goes to his state of mind, your 23 Honor, about how he felt. 24 THE COURT: Counsel, I made my ruling. Please don't 25 argue. Go ahead. Ask your next question. 26 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): What other -- what other things 27 did you observe, sir? 28 A. Okay. Well, I had the staff walking through the 143 Amanda M. Fagan, C. S. R. #8764 RPR 1 tunnels - 2 THE COURT: Excuse me, Mr. Hoden, what did you 3 observe? 4 THE WITNESS: Oh, okay. I saw that my staff were 5 going through the tunnels, and they were being heckled, you 6 know. He's called them cockroaches, just disgusting things, 7 basically. I don't know if he was just trying to incite a 8 disturbance or whatnot. But what he would do is, as they 9 would walk through he would go, "You, you," just constant, 10 every day, running to the gate. And then what I did to try to 11 handle the situation - 12 THE COURT: Excuse me, that's what he did? Is that 13 what he did? 14 THE WITNESS: Yes, he did that. 15 THE COURT: Okay. All right. You've answered the 16 question, sir. 17 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. 18 THE COURT: Okay. 19 THE WITNESS: And then my concern was - 20 THE COURT: Excuse me, sir, there is no question 21 pending. Wait for Mr. Schwarz. 22 MR. SCHWARZ: Okay. 23 Q. Can you continue with your observations, sir. 24 A. Yes. Every day he was there it got a little bit 25 more and a little bit more. Then what he would do is he would 26 come there in the morning and at the end of the day when the 27 staff would go home, and he would follow the buses in his car. 28 And he would pull up behind the car, he'd pull up beside the 144 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 car, swing around - 2 Q. The jury can't see what you are gesturing. 3 A. I'm sorry. He would pull around the car, go to the 4 side of the car, go ahead of the car, zoom ahead to get to 5 where their apartments were - 6 MR. HARR: I object, when he said "their apartments" 7 that implies that he wasn't on the bus. 8 THE COURT: Do you know of your own knowledge what 9 he did? 10 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I've seen him - 11 THE COURT: Were you there, sir? 12 THE WITNESS: Yes. On two occasions I saw, I can - 13 THE COURT: Tell us about those occasions. 14 THE WITNESS: One, he was following the bus. Number 15 two, I saw him at apartments where our staff live in Hemet. I 16 saw him there one time at 6:30 in the morning where our staff 17 would go out to work and all of a sudden he'd be standing 18 there, or he'd be in his car taking pictures of each -- of the 19 people as they walked out. Or he would have a little pad, and 20 he would look at the people and look at their license plate 21 and write it down. Then he would get in his car and follow 22 the buses. After this happened a couple days, what I used to 23 have to do is I used to go to the apartment buildings in the 24 morning, and if he was there I had to reroute the buses a 25 whole different way. 26 MR. HARR: Your Honor, I believe we are now beyond 27 observation. I believe he's answered the question. 28 THE COURT: Sustained. Ask your next question. 145 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you. We'll get to that. 2 Q. Did you -- now, did Mr. Henson, the defendant, 3 always have a sign when he was doing this activity? 4 A. No. Not all the time. 5 Q. So when he was taking pictures, how about when - 6 oh, I'll back up for foundational purposes. 7 Now, you indicated that there were some apartments? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Not all the staff live at Golden Era? 10 A. No. Only about maybe ten or 12 staff live at Golden 11 Era, and those are the type people that would fix a broken 12 pipe or if something broke down. Everybody else lives in 13 Hemet or San Jacinto that works there, at the church. 14 Q. Okay. So when you're talking about the buses, 15 what's the function of the buses, sir? 16 A. Well, one, we provide transportation back and forth 17 for the church staff. Some have cars, as I said, and maybe a 18 third or so, and then the rest just use the buses. Or 19 sometimes what they do is if they happen to have a car they'll 20 leave it at the apartment and just use -- in other words, it's 21 transportation that we provide for the staff that work at the 22 church. 23 Q. Okay. And you were talking about taking pictures; 24 where did that occur? 25 A. That occurred, we have some apartments over in Buena 26 Vista, Buena Vista Apartments, which are just about a block 27 from here, actually. 28 Q. Okay. 146 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 this behavior, what if anything did you tell your staff about 2 the information that you received? 3 A. Yes, I did. 4 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor. 5 THE COURT: What is the objection? State your 6 grounds. 7 MR. HARR: Overbroad. I mean, certain people are 8 alleged to be - 9 THE COURT: Excuse me. What is your objection? 10 MR. HARR: No foundation. Beyond the -- and 11 relevancy. 12 THE COURT: I'm not asking for speaking objections, 13 Counsel. Please just tell me the grounds. 14 MR. HARR: Relevancy. 15 THE COURT: I'm sorry? 16 MR. HARR: Relevancy. 17 THE COURT: Sustained. 18 MR. SCHWARZ: Your Honor, may I be heard on that? 19 THE COURT: No. Let's go, Counsel. 20 MR. SCHWARZ: Your Honor, I'm at a - 21 THE COURT: Counsel, please continue. 22 MR. SCHWARZ: I -- well -- may I approach your 23 clerk, your Honor? 24 THE COURT: Yes. 25 All right. Ladies and gentlemen, it's now about 25 26 after, and there are a couple of things I want to talk to you 27 about. Mr. Hoden, can you be here tomorrow morning at 9:00 28 o'clock? 148 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I can. 2 THE COURT: Thank you, sir. We'll excuse you for 3 the evening. See you tomorrow morning at 9:00 o'clock. 4 You're ordered back at that time. 5 THE WITNESS: Okay. Thank you. 6 THE COURT: Thank you, sir. 7 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 8 THE COURT: Let me say something to you folks in the 9 jury. I don't want anybody on the jury to think that this 10 Court has a view on any issue other than what the Court 11 believes is relevant evidence in this case. So no matter what 12 I do, I'm not -- I have no opinion one way or the other except 13 as to the legal aspect of this case. You will be the triers 14 of fact, and just because the Court may ask a question or may 15 limit questioning doesn't mean that the Court agrees or 16 disagrees with anything. It is merely doing its job. Do you 17 all understand that? 18 Okay. We'll adjourn now for the evening. Drive 19 carefully. Is there any reason anybody can't be here at 9:00 20 o'clock tomorrow? Okay. Any reason Counsel can't be here at 21 8:45? 22 MR. SCHWARZ: No, your Honor. 23 MR. HARR: No, your Honor. 24 THE COURT: I'm ordering Counsel back at 8:45, the 25 defendant back at 9:00 o'clock, and we'll see you folks at 26 9:00 o'clock in the morning. Have a pleasant evening. Leave 27 that right there. The deputy fortunately carries a big gun so 28 nobody will take any of those notes. They're perfectly safe. 149 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 (The jury exited the courtroom.) 2 THE COURT: Counsel, let me explain something to 3 both of you so you understand. The Court's responsibility is 4 to conduct what it believes to be a fair hearing. A fair 5 hearing does not mean that we go over the same subject matter 6 time after time after time. And if either of counsel is 7 unhappy with the ruling of the Court, that is truly 8 unfortunate. But that's the way it's going to be. And we're 9 going to move this trial, and we are going to get it through. 10 I'm sorry if you feel, if either of you feel one way or 11 another. I want you to understand that's not an apology, as 12 we said in China. 13 So we'll see you -- is there any reason why you 14 can't be here at 8:45, Counsel? 15 MR. HARR: No. 16 THE COURT: Let's get here -- if we have something 17 in the morning, you want to see me early, please let the clerk 18 know at 8:45 and I will come out so we can resolve any issues 19 and not delay the jury. Okay? Have a pleasant evening. 20 THE CLERK: Your Honor, one of the jurors gave this 21 to the deputy. 22 THE COURT: Oh. You want to read it? 23 MR. SCHWARZ: Please. 24 THE COURT: Sure. 25 MR. HARR: Thank you. 26 THE COURT: You might want to incorporate that in 27 some of your questions. 28 MR. HARR: Thank you, your Honor. 150 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you, your Honor. Is this the - 2 can the People mark this down, write the questions down to 3 address? 4 THE COURT: I'll give you a copy. 5 MR. SCHWARZ: Give me a copy? Thank you. People 6 will take a copy. 7 THE COURT: Do you want a copy, too? 8 MR. HARR: Please, your Honor. Thank you. 9 THE COURT: All right. 10 THE CLERK: Can I ask one more question, Judge? I 11 apologize. I wasn't here. When the People amended the 12 complaint this morning, is there a physical document, or is 13 that just oral? 14 THE COURT: Just by interlineation. 15 THE CLERK: And there won't be any physical document 16 forthcoming? 17 THE COURT: No. 18 THE CLERK: Okay. Thank you. 19 THE COURT: See you in the morning. 20 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you. 21 MR. HARR: Thank you. 22 (Proceedings adjourned.) 23 -000 24 25 26 27 28 151 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR