On Mon, 10 Sep 2001 23:43:28 GMT, hkhenson@home.com (Keith Henson) wrote: >(to page 243)
1 (Recess taken.) 2 THE COURT: Counsel, you have something you wanted 3 to show the Court? 4 MR. SCHWARZ: Well, your Honor, I have a -- I have 5 an actual copy of 356, which says that the declaration, 6 conversation or writing -- this is the part that was left off, 7 "which is necessary to make it understood may also be given 8 into evidence." So Mr. Harr is correct with respect to 9 cross-examination to make it understood. But as we talked 10 about before, it doesn't -- he won't be able to authenticate 11 it as to hearsay to himself, so. 12 THE COURT: Well, I don't know if it's a distinction 13 without a difference. 14 Let's call the jury in, please. 15 (The following proceedings were held in open court 16 in the presence of the jury.) 17 THE COURT: All right, Counsel. 18 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you, your Honor. 19 May I approach, your Honor? 20 THE COURT: Yes. 21 MR. SCHWARZ: May the record reflect that I'm 22 handing what's been previously been marked for identification 23 as 18A, People's 18A, which has been -- which is a portion of 24 a document that has been previously authenticated by the Court 25 as a true and correct copy of what Mr. Henson posted to the 26 net. 27 Q. Do you recognize it? 28 A. Yes, I do. 189 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 Q. And how do you recognize it? 2 A. Well, because I've seen it before. I've read this 3 before. 4 Q. And when was that? 5 A. This was written on the 12th of July. 6 THE COURT: Excuse me, do you know when you read it, 7 sir? 8 THE WITNESS: Oh, I'm sorry. The 13th of July. 9 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Okay. What's the date on that 10 document? 11 A. The date on here, on the 12th of July, 2000. 12 Q. And how did you come to see that document? 13 A. This was sent to me by our church in Los Angeles. 14 Q. Okay. And would you please read to the jury that 15 portion of the document that gave you concern? 16 A. Okay. "I saw one of the buses turn in at the 17 eastern most gate. They are totally disrupting traffic in a 18 hopeless attempt to avoid staff seeing me. Signed Keith 19 Henson, reporting from the Hemet front." 20 Q. Thank you. Thank you very much. 21 Could I have Exhibit Number 14. 22 May I approach, your Honor? 23 THE COURT: Yes. 24 MR. SCHWARZ: Let the record reflect that the People 25 have given the witness a copy -- or what's been previously 26 marked as People's Exhibit Number 14 for identification, which 27 is a true and accurate copy of a posting that was -- that the 28 Court has already authenticated as Mr. Henson's posting. 190 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764, RPR 1 Q. Do you recognize that? 2 A. Yes, I do. 3 Q. What is it? 4 A. This is a document that's signed by Keith Henson 5 "reporting from the Hemet front," and it's dated the 13th of 6 July, 2000. 7 Q. Okay. Would you please -- first of all, how did you 8 come to see that? 9 A. This was sent to me from our church in Los Angeles 10 on the following day. 11 Q. And can you please read that portion of the document 12 that gave rise to your concern? 13 A. There is a whole page here, so I have to just go 14 through it for a second. 15 Q. That's fine. Take your time. 16 A. Okay. 17 Q. Okay. would you please read that portion of the 18 document that gave you concern. 19 A. Well, the first part talks -- should I just read 20 this? The first part here caused me concern at the time. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. He says, "Serious entheta kept me busy through the 23 heat of the day, but I got back out there a little after 4:30. 24 I was interested to see buses take staff back to their 25 apartments, but this was not to be. It seems --" that little 26 mark, that little symbol "-- had given orders that the buses 27 not be moved while an S.P. was nearby." 28 Q. Okay. 191 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 A. Then down here it says, "After one pass to the east 2 end of the complex, I stayed near the west end where the buses 3 are parked. 5:00 p.m. and no movement. 5:30, still there. 4 6:00, 6:30, thug two gave up at 6:45, and Richardson followed 5 five minutes later. 7:00 p.m. the buses had not moved. 6 Finally, pity for those who had been there since 7:00 a.m. got 7 to me, though they might have moved them back to the 8 apartments in the small vans." 9 MR. HARR: Your Honor, I believe there might have 10 been a word left out of that. I don't mean to - 11 THE COURT: You will have a chance to cross-examine 12 the witness. 13 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Is that it? 14 A. Yes, sir. 15 Q. Now, why did that give you concern? 16 A. Well, when he was monitoring us every day and then 17 reporting up exactly what he was doing, and then all -- when I 18 would read the thing I go, okay, good, he's going to sit 19 outside the apartments where people live from 4:30 to 5:30 to 20 6:30. In other words, it was almost like, how do you plan the 21 next day, because where is he going to be next? And my major 22 concern was the safety of my staff here at the church. And 23 the information I had based upon the thing I read is that he 24 was capable of setting off bombs - 25 THE COURT: Excuse me, sir, you've answered the 26 question. 27 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you.I appreciate that. 28 May I approach, your Honor? 192 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 THE COURT: Yes. 2 MR. SCHWARZ: Let the record reflect that I am 3 handing the witness People's 10 for identification which has 4 been previously authenticated by the Court as a true and 5 correct copy of what Mr. Henson posted to the internet. 6 Q. Do you recognize that document, sir? . 7 A. Yes, I do. 8 Q. How do you recognize it? 9 A. Because I saw this document before. 10 Q. And when did you see this? 11 A. I saw this on the 10th of January -- no, I'm sorry, 12 I didn't. I saw this in the spring of 2000. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. Like about February. 15 Q. All right. And what's the date of the document? 16 A. The date of the document is 9 January 2000, and it's 17 signed "Keith Henson." 18 Q. Okay. And would you please read the entire, the 19 entire document, but indicate to the Court the difference 20 about what actually Mr. Henson wrote? 21 A. Okay. Starts out, "A group of rag tag S.P.'s, all 22 of different minds and opinions, but all of one goal." And 23 then another person says, "What is the one goal?" "To stop 24 the Church of Scientology illegal and inhumane practices, or 25 to destroy it utterly without sorrow, belief system and all." 26 And then Keith Henson writes, "Either would work for me, but 27 the latter seems like an easier task." And then it's signed 28 "Keith Henson." 193 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 Q. And why did that concern you? 2 A. Well, because exactly what it says, it says to 3 destroy, referring - 4 THE COURT: You've answered the question, sir. 5 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you. May I approach, your 6 Honor? 7 THE COURT: Yes. 8 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): I'm handing you what's previously 9 been marked for identification as People's Exhibit Number 7; 10 do you recognize that? 11 A. Yes, I do. 12 Q. That document, too, has been previously 13 authenticated by the Court as a true and correct copy of what 14 Mr. Henson previously posted to the internet. Can you tell us 15 what it is? What is it? 16 A. Well, this is a document that's dated the 9th of 17 July from Keith Henson. 18 Q. And when did you first receive it? Or when did you 19 first see it? 20 A. I would have seen this on the 10th of July. 21 Q. And who did you -- and how did you come to see it? 22 A. Well, it was sent to me by our church in Los 23 Angeles. 24 Q. Okay. I'm taking this as a pattern, this is a 25 pattern? 26 A. Okay. 27 Q. Is it? 28 A. Oh, yes. In other words, he would be out there one 194 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 day, and then - 2 THE COURT: Excuse me, sir. 3 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, it is a pattern. 4 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): It's a pattern. Would you please 5 take your time, read over that document, and find that portion 6 of the document that gave you concern. And then when you get 7 to that can you please inform us where you're reading from for 8 Counsel's sake. Okay? 9 A. Yes, sir. 10 Q. Take your time, please. 11 A. Okay. I found the spot. 12 Q. Can you please tell us where you're reading from? 13 A. Second paragraph starting with "Okay." 14 Q. Okay. Would you please read that? 15 A. Yes, I will. "Okay. I am more --" I'm sorry. 16 "Okay, I am more than willing to demonstrate the effect I have 17 on Gold Base. Standing on the west overpass, and just 18 watching out, the foot traffic over the road stops when I am 19 in any place close on the road. Or watch a van back up wildly 20 from the west gate if I show up." 21 Q. Is there anything else in that document that gave 22 you concern? 23 A. Yes. Seven more paragraphs down where it starts 24 with, "You have to go." 25 Q. Okay. 26 A. "You have to go from one side of the complex to the 27 other, either have to ride a van or get --" I'm sorry. 28 "Either have to ride a van or get clearance to go under the 195 Amanda M. Fa Lan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 road from some dude who knows where I'm at. Where I am." 2 Sorry. "It is nuts. You should see what happens when I go 3 watch them load the buses. The bus just sits there." 4 Q. And why does that concern you? 5 A. One, obviously he's monitoring the schedule of all 6 the buses, where they go. And number two, he enjoys going 7 wherever our people are to prevent us from going in and out of 8 the property or being able to make full use of our property. 9 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, conclusionary. 10 THE COURT: Sustained. 11 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you. 12 May I approach, your Honor? 13 THE COURT: Yes. 14 MR. SCHWARZ: Can the record reflect that I am 15 handing the witness what's been previously marked for 16 identification as People's Exhibit 19A, which is a -- which 17 has been previously authenticated. That portion of the 18 document has been previously authenticated as a true and 19 correct copy of what Mr. Henson posted to the net. 20 Q. Would you please read to the jury -- or first of 21 all, do you recognize that document? 22 A. Yes, I do. 23 Q. And what is it? 24 A. This is a document dated the 20th of July, 2000 25 signed by Keith Henson. 26 Q. And when did you first come to see it? 27 A. I would have seen this on the 21st of July. 28 Q. Okay. And where did you get it? 196 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 A. This was sent to me by our church in Los Angeles. 2 Q. And would you please read that document to the 3 Court? 4 A. Yes, sir. "I can tell when I am away --" I'm sorry. 5 "I can tell when I am way to the east of the plaza," 6 parenthesis, "near the main gate, that there are lots of 7 people crossing the plaza and going into the underpass. But 8 when I get there very few people can be seen on either side of 9 the road. I suspect they are huddling in the underpass until 10 they get the all clear signal that I have moved on." 11 Q. And again, why did that concern you, sir? 12 A. Well, it concerned me because the fact that 13 sometimes people would get trapped, so to speak, in the 14 underpass, because when he was over, above it people had, you 15 know, were afraid to come out because they didn't know which 16 side he was standing on - 17 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, conclusion. 18 THE COURT: Excuse me. Sustained. 19 MR. SCHWARZ: Okay. 20 Q. Did you -- I'll rephrase. Did you ever have an 21 occasion to see an event similar to this, what's described in 22 this document? 23 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, relevance. 24 THE COURT: I don't know what that means, Counsel. 25 Could you rephrase the question? 26 MR. SCHWARZ: I'll rephrase the question. I'll 27 rephrase the question. 28 Q. You indicated that it concerned you; why -- let's 197 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 just start over. Why did it concern you? 2 A. It concerned me because, one, he was monitoring the 3 traffic inside our church. That concerned me. That's not - 4 I don't consider that normal. In other words, people don't 5 usually have to go to church - 6 THE COURT: Excuse me, sir. If you'll just tell us 7 what concerned you. Not - 8 THE WITNESS: Why. 9 THE COURT: And not why. 10 THE WITNESS: Okay. It concerned me because 11 somebody was monitoring everything we did in the church, and 12 they would, wherever our church staff would go he would follow 13 them and be there in a threatening fashion. That's what 14 concerned me the most. And down to the level of somebody just 15 walking from one church dining hall to the church chapel, he 16 was there in between the chapel and the dining hall trying to 17 prevent that activity. 18 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Thank you. While I'm standing 19 here, let the record reflect that I am handing to the witness 20 what's been previously been marked as People's Exhibit 25A for 21 identification, which is a true and correct copy, or a portion 22 of a document that was previously authenticated by the Court 23 as Mr. Henson's posting. 24 Do you recognize it? 25 A. Yes, I do. 26 Q. And what is it? 27 A. This is a document that's written on the 3rd of 28 August, 2000, signed by Keith Henson. 198 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 Q. And would you please -- or when did you first see 2 it, sir? 3 A. I would have seen this on the 4th of August, 2000. 4 Q. And where would you receive that from? Who did you 5 get it from? 6 A. Sent to me from the church in Los Angeles. 7 Q. And could you please read the document? 8 A. Yes. "As one person put it, one wog, one thousand 9 terrified clams." 10 THE COURT REPORTER: Excuse me, was that "wog," 11 w-o-g? 12 THE WITNESS: Yes, it is. 13 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Have you ever heard the term - 14 now, we've already talked about clams. Have you ever heard of 15 the term "wog"? 16 A. Yes, I have. 17 Q. So the clams we've talked about, what does that mean 18 to you? 19 A. Clams - 20 THE COURT: We've already heard that, Counsel. 21 Q. Okay. So what gave you cause for concern with 22 respect to this document? 23 A. He's pointing out that he's out there and he's got 24 one thousand people terrified. 25 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you. At this time, your Honor, 26 we've finally gotten through all of the postings. Thank 27 goodness for all of us. At this time, your Honor, the People 28 would respectfully move to admit into evidence People's 199 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 Exhibits 24A, 15A - 2 THE COURT: Let's take that up at another time, 3 Counsel, outside the presence of the jury. 4 MR. SCHWARZ: Fine, your Honor. 5 Q. Now, you've read all these postings, and you had the 6 Chicken Mambo book and various other things. I'm placing on 7 the ELMO, for the record, what's been previously marked as 8 People's Exhibit Number 30, which is a certified copy of a 9 United States patent. Can you see that? Can you see that on 10 your monitor, sir? 11 A. Yes, I can. 12 Q. Can you read -- can you read that? 13 A. Not very well. 14 Q. Not very well? 15 A. As a matter of fact, I can see "U.S. Patent," and I 16 can see "Method of launching payloads." I can see the words 17 "Keith Henson." I can't make out the date on this copy. 18 Q. Okay. Let's try to start at the top. Okay. 19 A. I can see "Date of patent, February 18th, 1992." 20 Q. And who is the inventor? 21 A. Keith Henson. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. San Jose, California. 24 Q. And this is -- this would be page one? 25 A. Okay. 26 Q. This is figure one on sheet one of two? 27 A. That's correct. 28 Q. This is the top of figure two, bottom of figure 200 Amanda M. Fa an C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 three. Are you seeing all this? 2 A. Yes, I am. 3 Q. And then the summary. 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Have you ever seen this before? 6 A. Yes, I have. 7 Q. And when did you see it? 8 A. I saw it during the summer of 2000.I don't 9 remember the exact date that I saw it. It was during the 10 summer. 11 Q. Okay. It was in the summer? 12 A. That's correct. I think I saw it towards the end of 13 June or beginning of July, but that's just a guess. It was in 14 the summer. 15 Q. Okay. And same questions. Where did you get a copy 16 of the patent? 17 A. From the U.S. Patent Office. 18 Q. And - 19 A. Washington, D.C. 20 Q. Washington, D.C. And - 21 THE COURT: You got it? 22 THE WITNESS: Oh, no, that's where it came from. 23 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): I'm asking you where you got it 2 4 from. 25 A. It was sent to me. 26 Q. By? 27 A. I got it from one of our staff at our church in Los 28 Angeles who acquired it. 201 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 Q. Okay. And how did you come to see it exactly? How 2 did you come to know about it? 3 A. Well, a copy of it was sent to me. 4 Q. Okay. And when you received a copy of the patent 5 did you read it in its entirety? 6 A. Yes, I did. 7 Q. Now, what -- in general terms what does the patent 8 purport to do? 9 A. It shows how a rocket could be launched - 10 MR. HARR: Your Honor, lack of foundation that he 11 has expertise to interpret that. 12 THE COURT: Sustained. 13 MR. SCHWARZ: Withdrawn, your Honor. Withdrawn. 14 Q. When you saw the patent, in conjunction with 15 everything else, but that alone, how did that make you feel? 16 A. It made me feel frightened, because the man 17 obviously knew something about missiles. I mean, if he's got 18 a patent on missiles, or how to shoot missiles off, or how to 19 put payloads in missiles, it concerned me a great deal. Not a 20 lot of people know how to do that sort of thing. And a lot of 21 people aren't threatening me with missiles. So when I put 22 those two things together - 23 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor - 24 MR. SCHWARZ: I'm asking - 25 MR. HARR: Beyond the scope of - 26 THE COURT: Overruled. 27 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Continue, please.How did it 28 make you feel? 202 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 A. It made me feel frightened, frightened for me, 2 frightened for my wife. 3 Q. I meant continued - 4 A. Frightened for me, my wife who lives here with me in' 5 the valley, frightened for my staff. I have a person who's 6 got experience with setting off bombs, pyrotechnics, pipe 7 bombs and various techniques - 8 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, that's beyond - 9 MR. SCHWARZ: I agree. 10 MR. HARR: Ask that that be stricken. 11 MR. SCHWARZ: Yes. 12 THE COURT: Granted. 13 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): So you were frightened, that's 14 the answer? 15 A. Yes, I took it serious. 16 THE COURT: Excuse me, the answer is "yes"? 17 THE WITNESS: Yes. 18 THE COURT: Thank you. 19 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Now, all this information that 20 we've covered, the Great Mambo Chicken book, the patent, the 21 postings, and various other information that you received from 22 the downtown church or wherever that we've talked about 23 before, what did it cause you to do? Did you keep it to 24 yourself? 25 A. Oh, no. No. I did two things. 26 Q. What did you do? 27 A. Well, the first thing I did was I contacted the 28 sheriff's office. And I provided the information to them as I 203 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 got it, because as you could see I was getting the information 2 on a daily basis. And finally - 3 THE COURT: That was the first thing that you did, 4 was contact the sheriff's office? 5 THE WITNESS: That's the first thing I did. 6 THE COURT: What was the second thing? 7 THE WITNESS: Second thing was I alerted my staff to 8 the fact that we had a person who had a history of setting - 9 here exactly -- I briefed all my staff, 750 staff, I told 10 them, I says, "We have a person along the highway who has a 11 history of setting off bombs. Number two, he has made various 12 threats against the church, that he wants to destroy and that 13 he hates our religion. Number three --" 14 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, there is no basis 15 that I've seen to say that he hates the religion. 16 MR. SCHWARZ: Your Honor - 17 MR. HARR: There's nothing in evidence to this point 18 to show that. 19 MR. SCHWARZ: I asked him what he provided, what he 20 told his staff, your Honor. 21 THE COURT: You asked him what he did. 22 MR. SCHWARZ: Yeah, what did he do. 23 THE COURT: Yeah. 24 MR. SCHWARZ: So I think that's a fair answer. 25 Q. So what else did you do? 26 A. All right. So I explained to them his background, 27 the fact that he's got a history of - 28 THE COURT: Excuse me, you've explained his 204 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 background. 2 THE WITNESS: I briefed all our staff. 3 THE COURT: As you understood it. 4 THE WITNESS: As I understood it. In other words, 5 based on the information I had, this is what I explained. I 6 said, "I am concerned, I don't want anyone hurt. This person 7 is out here, I don't know how long he's going to be out here. 8 I don't want you to go near the highway, and I don't want you 9 to get close to him, because I'm afraid he might throw a bomb 10 over the fence or do something like that." 11 So what I did is, a lot of the people on our staff, 12 because we have 43 buildings on the property, carry a beeper, 13 a little message beeper. And usually the heads of the 14 different departments and sections all carry the beepers - 15 THE COURT: Excuse me, sir, what did you do? 16 THE WITNESS: Well, we would send out a message 17 called "drill activate." And it would show up on the beeper. 18 You, like, have these little messages, and the little message 19 would come out "drill activated." That means that Keith 20 Henson was here at the apartments standing outside the doors, 21 that he was on the highway, and whenever the staff would get a 22 little message that said "drill activated," they knew that he 23 or people that were with him were out on the highway. 24 THE COURT: Excuse me. I think the question is what 25 did you do. Not what happened. 26 THE WITNESS: So I explained all this to the staff. 27 THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. 28 THE WITNESS: Yes. And then whenever he would show 205 Amanda M. Fagan, C. S. R. #8764 RJR 1 up - 2 THE COURT: Excuse me, that's what you did? 3 THE WITNESS: That's what I did. 4 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Now, it's okay. Is this the 5 first time you've testified, sir? I mean aside, not from 6 today, have you testified before? 7 A. I've never done anything quite like this before. 8 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, nonresponsive. 9 THE COURT: Well, overruled. 10 Let me explain something to you, sir. And to the 11 jury. This is a different surrounding than any place else. 12 When a question is asked it's more helpful if we have a brief 13 answer. If the attorney wants you to expand on it, he'll ask 14 you to expand on it. And I don't want you to think that I am 15 trying to stop you from talking, but I'm trying to keep the 16 answers brief if possible. Thank you. 17 THE WITNESS: All right. 18 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you, your Honor. 19 Q. Okay. So your testimony is that you briefed your 20 staff; did you actually brief all 700 individually? 21 A. I briefed all 700 - 22 THE COURT: That calls for a "yes" or "no" answer. 23 THE WITNESS: Yes. 24 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Okay. Now, was among your staff 25 was one of the people that you briefed Hillary Dezotell? 26 A. Yes. 27 Q. Yes? 28 A. Yes. 206 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 Q. Okay. And then was another person Bruce Wagoner? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. The other complaining parties? 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. And when you briefed these two people did you 6 provide them a copy with the postings? 7 A. Yes, I did. 8 Q. And did you provide them a copy of the patent and 9 the Mambo Chicken Book, et cetera? 10 A. Yes. I'm trying to think of who I showed the patent 11 to. I showed them the postings. I showed them this Mambo 12 Chicken Book. And I showed some of my staff the patent. 13 Q. Okay. So you allowed them to come to their own 14 judgment? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Thank you. Now, the last question that I have for 17 you is this: Why did you -- why did you go through all the 18 trouble of doing that? 19 A. Well, I didn't want to make the same mistake again. 20 Q. What mistake is that? 21 A. Well, we had an earlier situation where we had what 22 might appear to be silly or foolish or joking type threats. 23 And as a result somebody got killed. Somebody got shot. And 24 I didn't want that to happen again. And I was not going to 25 make that mistake again, and I was determined not to make it 26 again. 27 Q. What are you referring to? 28 A. Referring to the fact that a man one time took a 207 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 little tiny tank and wound it up like this, and put a little 2 sign on it and said, "Next time it will be real." And it 3 chugged through the front door of our church, of one of our 4 churches. 5 Q. Where? 6 A. Portland, Oregon. 7 Q. Then what happened? 8 A. All right. We took it to the police, explained to 9 them that this is a threat. They said there was nothing they 10 could do, looked like just a joke. He walked in later, shot 11 Helen, who I've known for 25 years, shot Helen, bullet went 12 through her shoulder, through her baby's head in her womb, and 13 she's paralyzed for life. And shot Reverend Crandall who ran 14 the church. And two other people. And I was not going to 15 have that happen again to my church. And I didn't want any of 16 my staff hurt - 17 THE COURT: All right. You've answered the 18 question, sir. 19 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you. I don't think I have any 20 further questions for this witness. 21 THE COURT: All right. You may cross-examine. 22 MR. HARR: Thank you, your Honor. 23 CROSS-EXAMINATION 24 BY MR. HARR: 25 Q. Good morning, Mr. Hoden. I believe I -- you were 26 just asked if you'd ever testified before, and I think your 27 answer was something along the lines of "nothing like this 28 before"? 208 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 A. Yes, sir. 2 Q. Isn't it true that you have in fact testified before 3 - 4 MR. SCHWARZ: Objection, your Honor. 5 THE COURT: Overruled. It's cross-examination. 6 Q. (By Mr. Harr): Isn't it true that you have 7 previously testified in court? 8 A. I don't remember testifying - 9 THE COURT: Excuse me, can you answer that "yes" or 10 "no"? 11 THE WITNESS: Yes. 12 Q. (By Mr. Harr): Isn't it true that you previously 13 sued Mr. Henson in 1998 - 14 MR. SCHWARZ: Objection, your Honor. 15 THE COURT: Overruled. 16 THE WITNESS: Well, I don't think it was - 17 Q. (By Mr. Harr): "Yes" or "no," sir? 18 A. Well, I don't think so, because - 19 THE COURT: The answer is you don't think so? 20 THE WITNESS: Well, what happened - 21 THE COURT: Excuse me, sir, is your answer you don't 22 think so? 23 THE WITNESS: Yes. 24 THE COURT: Okay. 25 THE WITNESS: Can I clarify what I meant? 26 THE COURT: No. 27 THE WITNESS: I can't do that? Okay. 28 THE COURT: I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be abrupt. 209 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 THE WITNESS: No, you weren't. You're just telling 2 me what I'm supposed to do. 3 Q. (By Mr. Harr): Do you remember retaining the law 4 office of Reed and Hellier to represent you in a case in 1998 5 in Riverside County? 6 A. Yes, Charles Schultz. 7 Q. Do you now remember testifying in that case? 8 A. No. We never got to be a case, because what 9 happened was - 10 Q. "Yes" or "no," sir? 11 A. No, I don't. We would - 12 THE COURT: The answer is "no"? 13 THE WITNESS: No. Well, I - 14 THE COURT: The answer is no? 15 THE WITNESS: That's right, no. It's no, yeah. 16 THE COURT: Okay, thank you. 17 Q. (By Mr. Harr): You don't remember being 18 cross-examined by Mr. Grey Hamberry? 19 A. No, I do not. I remember the judge asked him - 20 THE COURT: The answer is you do not? 21 THE WITNESS: I do not. I'll get this right. I do 22 not. I'm used to talking too much. 23 THE COURT: Well, the tendency is to want to 24 explain. 25 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I know. I want to do that. 26 THE COURT: We don't need you to explain unless the 27 attorney says something. 28 THE WITNESS: Okay. 210 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 Q. (By Mr. Harr): You don't remember testifying, 2 saying you remember something about the effect that some druid 3 something or other, something to do with druid religion, and, 4 "That's the best thing that could happen to Scientology, just 5 to totally have it wiped out completely and I am here to 6 basically accomplish that effect," you don't remember stating 7 that about Mr. Henson? 8 A. I remember saying that. 9 Q. So now you remember testifying in court in another 10 matter? 11 A. I just -- I'm sorry. I'll just make it real brief. 12 I didn't think that was testifying. We were standing -- I 13 never sat like this before where -- it was a motion for a 14 restraining order. I didn't think it was a suit. Just at 15 that time the sheriff's office recommended that I do that. I 16 went and did it. We stood way over there by the door. The 17 judge asked us some questions, and at that time he said that 18 we don't have enough evidence right now to proceed with the 19 restraining order against Mr. Henson like we do now. So that 20 was that. 21 Q. So even though the Court indicated after you had 22 said basically the same thing that you've testified today, you 23 didn't get a restraining order; is that correct? 24 A. Well, he says, "You don't have enough evidence right 25 now to do that." 26 THE COURT: The witness has answered the question. 27 MR. HARR: Thank you, your Honor. 28 Q. Thank you, Mr. Hoden. 211 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 A. Yes. 2 MR. SCHWARZ: Do I have a copy of this? 3 MR. HARR: I don't know. 4 MR. SCHWARZ: That's pretty objectionable. Your 5 Honor, I don't think I have a copy of this where he's reading 6 this from. 7 MR. HARR: I didn't know if this was him. I haven't 8 _ 9 THE COURT: What do you want? 10 MR. SCHWARZ: I would like, if he's going to refer 11 to it now I would like to at least know what he's talking 12 about. 13 THE COURT: You want to show it to Counsel? 14 MR. HARR: Sure, your Honor. 15 Q. Mr. Hoden, you previously indicated, I believe, that 16 you've read certain portions or perhaps all of the book 17 entitled Great Mambo Chicken and the Transhuman Condition? 18 THE COURT: That's compound, Counsel. Can you ask 19 one part at a time? 20 Q. (By Mr. Harr): I'd like to ask you some questions 21 about the Great Mambo Chicken book that you previously 22 testified about, sir. 23 A. Okay. 24 Q. Did you read the cover of the book? 25 A. Sure. 26 Q. Did you read the part that says where it's 27 free-wheeling and riotously funny, L.A. Times? 28 A. Yes, sir. 212 Amanda M. Fa an C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 Q. Did you read about Mr. Henson's home life in there 2 that was described in the book? 3 A. I didn't read the whole book cover to cover, and I 4 don't remember - 5 THE COURT: The answer is "no"? 6 THE WITNESS: The answer is "no." 7 Q. (By Mr. Harr): So you didn't read about the goats 8 he has, the wife he has? 9 A. I did read the section about the goats because I 10 remember the goats. 11 Q. And I guess you're aware that the lady that was - 12 that you referred to in reading this was Mr. Henson's ex-wife? 13 A. I gathered that, yes. 14 Q. Now, you read that it was stunning, I believe you 15 were referring to a bomb, "It was stunning, everybody agreed 16 that it was a very loud explosion and one of the best 17 recreational bombs they had ever seen," and then you didn't 18 read the rest of the sentence; was there some reason you 19 didn't read the rest of the sentence? 20 A. I'd have to look at this. 21 Q. Sure, by all means. I'm on page 50. 22 A. Where it says, "It was stunning"? 23 Q. Yes. And you read up to "recreational bomb they had 24 seen," and then you didn't read the part after the comma, 25 which says, "The Hensons walked away easy winners of the fire 26 festival that Sunday"? 27 A. That's right. 28 Q. Did you take into account that this was a social 213 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 activity? 2 A. Yes. They were out there, it was a bomb - 3 THE COURT: The answer is "yes"? 4 THE WITNESS: Yes. Yeah. 5 Q. (By Mr. Harr): There wasn't anything in the book 6 about this being an illegal activity, was there, that you 7 read? 8 A. No. 9 Q. And at the time that this incident occurred perhaps 10 was around the 1970 time frame? 11 A. It's a little hard to tell, but I thought it sounded 12 like it was in the mid '70's, something like that. 13 Q. Okay. But the book itself probably was written in 14 1990; isn't that correct? 15 A. Yeah. I think there's copywrite 1990 or '91, I 16 forget which. 17 Q. So this is at least a ten-year-old book with perhaps 18 30 to 40-year-old information, 30-year-old information? 19 A. No, no. '75 is more like 25. 20 Q. Okay, 25-year-old information. Now, this activation 21 system that you had? 22 A. Yes, sir. 23 Q. When you activated an alert isn't it true that not 24 all the people were notified? 25 A. I don't know how to answer that question. 26 THE COURT: You can't answer the question? 27 THE WITNESS: Yes, all the people were notified. 28 Q. (By Mr. Harr): So were you the one that pushed the 214 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 buttons to activate the alert system? 2 A. No. 3 Q. So every time you saw -- excuse me. Every time some 4 person saw Keith Henson the alert went off? 5 A. There was a -- a person designated to do that by me. 6 And yes, every time he saw Keith Henson on the highway or 7 coming towards the highway, he would type in "drill activated" 8 into the beeper system and it would just go out. 9 Q. It's probably going to take me a little bit of time, 10 I'm going to go through this as rapidly as I can. 11 A. Okay. 12 Q. Because the exhibits are numbered in such a way that 13 I am going to be -- given the time I'm not going to do that 14 right now. 15 A. Okay. 16 Q. Isn't it true that you've called law enforcement out 17 to Golden Era regarding Mr. Henson's picketing on more than 18 one occasion? 19 A. That's correct. 20 Q. How many times have you called law enforcement out 21 to Golden Era or that -- or your facility within the period of 22 June -- May 1st of 2000 through July of 2000? 23 A. Throughout the month of May and throughout the month 24 of June I would say maybe ten times. 25 Q. Isn't it true that on the one occasion where the 26 sheriff showed up you refused to make a citizen's arrest on 27 Mr. Henson? 28 A. Nope. That's not true. 215 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 Q. It's your testimony today that you have never 2 refused to make a citizen's arrest on Mr. Henson? 3 A. No. The officer arrested him and put him - 4 THE COURT: Excuse me, sir. The question is, did 5 you refuse to make a citizen's arrest? 6 THE WITNESS: Well, I was confused, sir, and if I 7 can explain - 8 THE COURT: Can you rephrase the question so that 9 the witness can understand - 10 THE WITNESS: Because he was already arrested - 11 Q. (By Mr. Harr): Perhaps it was July, 2000 instead of 12 June. 13 A. Yes, right. 14 Q. If you're not sure about June, how about July of 15 2000, did you refuse to make a citizen's arrest on Mr. Henson 16 for his picketing activities in July of 2000? 17 THE COURT: Do you understand the question? 18 THE WITNESS: No, not exactly, because when you 19 arrest somebody -- he was already - 20 THE COURT: The answer is you don't understand? 21 THE WITNESS: Understand. I don't understand, 22 because he was already - 23 THE COURT: You've answered the question, sir. 24 THE WITNESS: Okay, sorry. 25 Q. (By Mr. Harr): In the documents that you've read 26 today, one of the references that you read mentioned an 27 M.C.B.M.; is that correct? 28 A. That's correct. 216 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 Q. Do you - 2 A. I don't know if I read that today. I guess I did 3 read that today, I'm sorry. 4 Q. Do you -- okay. And was it your testimony today 5 that the distance, and of course I'm not trying to put words 6 in your mouth, so I'm sure you'll correct me, if there was a 7 distance of about 15 yards from where Mr. Henson was standing 8 to the entrance of the tunnel that you referred to in your 9 testimony; is that correct? 10 A. The distance from the edge of the tunnel -- or from 11 along the highway where he was standing to the chapel was 12 about 15 yards. 13 Q. I misunderstood your testimony. 14 A. Yeah. 15 Q. That was your testimony. In the Great Mambo Chicken 16 Book where Mr. Henson was talking about -- Mr. Henson was not 17 talking about, but where it referred to him blowing up a 18 200-pound bomb with -- that could only be done with great 19 difficulty, were you somehow thinking that he was going to 20 throw a 200-pound bomb that would only explode with great 21 difficulty? 22 A. Oh, no. I was thinking he - 23 THE COURT: The answer is "no"? 24 THE WITNESS: The answer is "no." 25 Q. (By Mr. Harr): And isn't it true that it really 26 didn't refer to any other type of actual explosives device 27 that was described in the Mambo Chicken book? 28 A. Huh-uh. The book is replete with all the - 217 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 Q. Your answer was "no"? 2 A. Well, maybe I didn't understand the question. 3 Q. You've answered the question, I think. 4 THE COURT: Why don't you ask the question again, 5 Counsel. 6 Q. (By Mr. Harr): Isn't it true that the portion of 7 the book that you read where there was the big bang - 8 A. Ah, yes, okay. 9 Q. Wasn't that a 200-pound device? 10 A. That one section there dealt with just that big 11 bomb, yes. 12 Q. The portion you read? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And it would only explode with great difficulty? 15 A. I guess. I think that's what it said, yeah. 16 Q. And that it was a recreational activity? 17 A. That's correct. 18 Q. I believe you read one portion of a report that said 19 -- that mentioned an eagle? 20 THE COURT: Counsel, if you have the specific 21 document that you're referring to, would you please allow the 22 witness to look at it. 23 MR. HARR: Yes, your Honor. I'm sure I have it here 24 in my notes. 25 Well, let's refer to something I can find. How 26 about the patent. 27 THE COURT: Sir, will you please be seated. 28 Q. (By Mr. Harr): It's my understanding from your 218 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 testimony that you did in fact read the patent? 2 A. Uh-huh. 3 THE COURT: Is that "yes"? 4 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. Yes. 5 THE COURT: The reporter can't take down - 6 THE WITNESS: I mumbled there, I'm sorry. 7 Q. (By Mr. Harr): And this would include the fact that 8 you read any pictures or diagrams that were in the patent? 9 MR. SCHWARZ: Can you see it? 10 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I can see from here. I can see. 11 Q. (By Mr. Harr): Maybe it will help if I put it up 12 here. 13 Okay. In any of the -- did you have the impression, 14 for example, from page -- the pages on the screen, it's the 15 second page that's in the exhibit, that in some way, shape or 16 form an aircraft is required to do whatever this patent does? 17 A. Oh, yes. 18 Q. Do you have any information that Mr. Henson has a 19 pilot's license? 20 A. No, I do not. 21 MR. HARR: We might as well just go through these 22 the way we've gone through, if I can. Mr. Schwarz, do you 23 have Exhibit 24 for identification? 24 MR. SCHWARZ: The entire one? 25 MR. HARR: Yes. 26 MR. SCHWARZ: I think Madam Clerk has the entire 27 document. 28 Q. (By Mr. Harr): And when -- on this -- on the -- I 219 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 should show this to you. Can I please have 24A? 2 MR. SCHWARZ: 24A, please. 3 MR. HARR: Thank you. Your Honor, may I approach 4 the witness? 5 THE COURT: Yes. 6 MR. HARR: Thank you. 7 Q. Mr. Hoden, I'm handing you what's previously been 8 marked Exhibit 24A, from which you've read. 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And on that particular exhibit I don't believe we 11 got into the fact that this is an incomplete document. Do you 12 - 13 THE COURT: Excuse me, Counsel. Don't testify, just 14 ask a question. 15 Q. (By Mr. Harr): Is 24A the full document that your 16 read portion came from? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Thank you. 19 Your Honor, I apologize to the Court. I wasn't 20 expecting to be doing this. 21 In any of the messages that you've read from today 22 in court, isn't it true that your name was never mentioned in 23 any of them? 24 A. No, none of the ones I read today. 25 Q. So it's accurate to say that your name was not in 26 any of the information you read today? 27 A. That I read here in court today, yes. 28 Q. And isn't it true that of the information you read 220 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 here today, the names of the other two witnesses in this case 2 that are alleged to have been threatened, their name does not 3 appear, either; is that correct? 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. And isn't it true that the site on which these 6 appeared is not a Scientology site? 7 A. Oh, no. No. It's anti-Scientology. 8 Q. So one would have to go to some site other than a 9 Scientology site in order to even be able to read this stuff? 10 A. That's correct, sir. 11 Q. When did you first read the Mambo Chicken Book? 12 A. In late 1997. 13 Q. So the information in there was not new to you 14 during the period of June 1st through September 1st, 2000; 15 isn't that correct? 16 A. You're referring to the Mambo Chicken Book? 17 Q. Yes, I am. 18 A. That's correct. 19 Q. And isn't it true that you knew years before June 20 1st, 2000 that Mr. Henson had stated publicly that he wouldn't 21 mind seeing Scientology destroyed? 22 A. Yes. I first heard those words in 1997. 23 Q. So that's not new information? 24 A. Oh, no. 25 Q. And isn't it true that Mr. Henson to your knowledge 26 has never attempted to climb the fence at Scientology 27 property? 28 A. Oh, no. There's a couple of times he's leaning over 221 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 trying to get over that fence. 2 THE COURT: I'm sorry, sir? 3 THE WITNESS: There's several times he was trying to 4 jump over the fence. 5 Q. (By Mr. Harr): Your testimony was that he was 6 trying to jump over the fence? 7 A. I don't know what he was doing, he was trying to 8 lean over the fence, reach over - 9 THE COURT: He leaned over the fence? 10 THE WITNESS: Yeah. The police came out and said, 11 "Stay away from the fence, you can't go up to the fence." 12 THE COURT: You've answered the question. 13 THE WITNESS: Yes. 14 Q. (By Mr. Harr): How high is that fence? 15 A. The fence over the tunnel -- well, it's a rock wall 16 this high, and the fence is about three feet high. So when 17 you stand up against it, the top of the fence comes right 18 about where your nose is. In fact, I could put my nose on it 19 and look over it. 20 Q. Isn't it true you put a green tarp over part of that 21 fence? 22 MR. SCHWARZ: Objection, relevance, your Honor. 23 THE COURT: Overruled. 24 You can answer. 25 THE WITNESS: No. There is a green tarp over - 26 THE COURT: The answer is "no"? 27 THE WITNESS: Well, depends which tunnel we're 28 talking about. 222 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 THE COURT: Oh, okay. One of the tunnels? 2 Q. (By Mr. Harr): Have you ever put a green tarp over 3 the fence that would block the view of one of the tunnels? 4 A. The east tunnel. 5 Q. And could you please point out for the jury which 6 tunnel that would be? 7 A. Yes, sir. 8 Q. On your exhibit there. 9 A. Yes. The east tunnel is just this tunnel here where 10 all these buildings are, there's a little tarp. Green tarp. 11 And there's also a green tarp that goes right over here. 12 Q. And how high from the -- okay. Maybe you could 13 describe the fence where you said there is a wall and then the 14 fence? 15 A. Well, if we can look at that picture I can show you. 16 Q. All right. Do you recall what exhibit that was, 17 Mr. Schwarz? I think it was 20 - 18 MR. SCHWARZ: Here. I don't know which one it is. 19 MR. HARR: Your Honor, may I approach the witness? 20 THE COURT: Yes. 21 Q. (By Mr. Harr): Mr. Hoden, I'm going to hand you 22 what's been marked Exhibit 29 for identification and Exhibit 23 28 for identification. I think you previously testified about 24 both of these, and I'd like you to please select the one, if 25 you can, to demonstrate the tunnel that you're referring to in 26 your testimony now. 27 A. Well, you mean the east tunnel? 28 Q. If that's how you would prefer to refer to it, yes. 223 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 A. Yeah, well, this one. That's this one. 2 Q. Okay. Thank you. That's been marked as Number 29 3 for identification. Thank you. 4 A. That's the east one. That's the east tunnel. 5 Q. Okay. So you -- could you -- okay. We see the one 6 side of the tunnel there? 7 A. This is the south side. 8 Q. The south side of the east tunnel? 9 A. Looking north. 10 Q. Looking north. That would be toward the mountains? 11 A. That's right. 12 Q. We have the rock wall in view there over the tunnel; 13 is that the rock wall you were referring to that the fence is 14 located on? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. All right. And then the fence is -- how is the 17 fence constructed then relative to the rock wall? 18 THE COURT: If you know, sir. 19 THE WITNESS: How is the fence constructed? Is that 20 the question? 21 THE COURT: I'm not sure I understand that question, 22 Counsel. 23 Q. (By Mr. Harr): Is it cemented into the rock? Is 24 there a hole drilled in it to put a metal post in to hold the 25 fence up? I understand that the property management was one 26 of your areas of expertise, so I was wondering if you could 27 please tell us what the property -- how it's constructed. 28 A. Yes. 224 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 THE COURT: If you know. 2 THE WITNESS: I do know. This one is not the one 3 with the rock wall. The reason is, on top of that rock wall 4 that you're looking at is where the fence is, which is the 5 bottom of the fence. There's dirt that goes all the way up. 6 So in other words, another one has a rock wall partway - 7 THE COURT: I think the question is this one. 8 THE WITNESS: Yeah. So it's just, you know, the 9 fence is, you have a little post, you know. You put the post 10 in about every eight feet, it's got cement, and then you have 11 a fence, and then a post, then it runs along the top of the 12 tunnel. 13 Q. (By Mr. Harr): How tall are you, sir? 14 A. Five foot nine and three quarters. 15 Q. Okay. Thank you. And you indicated that I believe 16 that when you stand up there it hits you about right here, the 17 record to indicate that it was the middle - 18 A. About right here. 19 Q. About your nose? 20 A. Yeah, about your nose. 21 Q. You didn't previously testify that it was the middle 22 of your head? 23 A. Well, I don't know. It's about in here. If I stand 24 up straight like this, it hits my nose. If I'm not it comes 25 in here, just bottom line. 26 Q. And you put a green tarp over this area; is that 27 correct? 28 A. Over this tunnel. 225 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 Q. Yes. 2 A. Over just -- I'd had it. I says, "I'm just gonna 3 put a little tarp over there, because I'm tired of seeing him 4 standing over our tunnel." So that's why I put the tarp over 5 there. 6 Q. So you put the little tarp over there? 7 A. Yeah. 8 Q. Thank you. So if you put the tarp up you can't see 9 him; right? 10 A. I can't see him, that's right. It's on the east 11 tunnel. 12 Q. And I believe it was your testimony that you -- part 13 of your operation is to develop films? 14 A. Oh, yes. 15 Q. Do you have surveillance cameras in the area of 16 these tunnels? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Do you have any tape of him trying to climb over the 19 fence? 20 A. No. I saw him. 21 Q. You make movies there; right? 22 A. Down by the garage. 23 Q. Did you make movies there? 24 A. Yes, we did. 25 Q. Do you have portable cameras? 26 A. Oh, yes, many. 27 Q. Do you have video of him supposedly glaring at 28 people when they come to work? 226 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 A. I don't have a video of him glaring. 2 MR. HARR: Your Honor, may I approach the witness? 3 THE COURT: Yes. 4 Q. (By Mr. Harr): Mr. Hoden, I'd like to hand you 5 what's been previously marked as Exhibit 2 for identification. 6 THE COURT: What's your question, Counsel? 7 Q. (By Mr. Harr): The last line on there that I 8 believe you read? 9 A. Yes, sir. 10 Q. Says something to the effect, "Now paren asterisk 11 paren has to watch out for eagles as well as cruise missiles?" 12 A. That's correct. 13 Q. And while I'm no expert at English by any stretch, 14 isn't "has" a singular verb? 15 A. Yes, it is. 16 Q. And didn't you previously indicate that this sign to 17 the best of your knowledge refers to I believe his name is 18 Mr. Miscavige? 19 A. That's correct. 20 Q. So that isn't your name; is it? 21 A. No, it's not my name. 22 Q. And it isn't the name of the other two people who 23 are alleged to be threatened in this case; is that correct? 24 A. No, it's not. 25 Q. Now, this talks about watching out for eagles and 26 talks about cruise missiles? 27 A. That's correct. 28 Q. Do you somehow believe that an eagle is going to be 227 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 a weapon? 2 A. I don't know what he means by "eagle." 3 Q. In the Great Mambo Chicken book did you read 4 anything about his falconry skills, Mr. Henson's falconry 5 skills? 6 A. No, I did not. 7 Q. They're not in there to the best of your knowledge; 8 is that correct? 9 A. I didn't read the whole book, I don't know. In the 10 portions I read I didn't read anything about him dealing with 11 eagles. 12 Q. But you believe he might have the capability to use 13 an eagle as a weapon? 14 A. I was looking at the cruise missile to be honest 15 with you, sir. 16 Q. Okay. So when you stated your concern, even though 17 you read the part about the eagle, you weren't concerned about 18 the eagle? 19 A. I was concerned about the whole thing because I 20 don't know what "eagle" means. I don't know what "eagle" 21 means. 22 THE COURT: Okay. You've answered the question. 23 THE WITNESS: I don't know. I don't know. 24 Q. (By Mr. Harr): Did you read anything in the Great 25 Mambo Chicken book about Mr. Henson having any expertise with 26 a cruise missile? 27 A. No. 28 Q. Did you see anything in the postings that you 228 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 referred to today indicating that Mr. Henson has any expertise 2 with a cruise missile? 3 A. Not in the postings that I read today. 4 Q. Have you ever seen a cruise missile? 5 A. Just on T.V. No, I haven't. 6 Q. Do you know what the capabilities of a cruise 7 missile are? 8 A. Sure. 9 Q. What are the capabilities of a cruise missile? 10 A. Well, they can go quite a distance. They can 11 probably go several thousand miles. And they're quite 12 accurate, and that's about what I know. 13 Q. So you think Mr. -- even though you don't know that 14 Mr. Henson has any expertise in cruise missiles, you think he 15 might be able to fly a cruise missile a long ways and hit 16 something like this? 17 A. I think he could fly a missile a long ways and hit 18 something with it, absolutely, without a doubt. 19 Q. So he can blow up kerosene and ammonium nitrate; is 20 that correct? 21 A. Uh-huh. 22 Q. You don't know that he can even fly an airplane; is 23 that correct? 24 A. That's correct. 25 Q. And you don't know that he has any experience with a 26 cruise missile, but you believe he can hit Gold Base or some 27 other base with a cruise missile? 28 MR. SCHWARZ: Objection, your Honor - 229 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 THE WITNESS: I believe he could hit the Gold Base 2 with a missile, yes, I do. I do. 3 Q. (By Mr. Harr): With a cruise missile? 4 A. Well, I don't know if he'd use a cruise missile or 5 not. I don't know. I don't know if he has a cruise missile. 6 MR. HARR: I believe you inquired about 17 without a 7 redaction. 8 MR. SCHWARZ: Yeah. I did the whole thing. There 9 it is. 10 MR. HARR: Your Honor? 11 THE COURT: Sure. 12 Q. (By Mr. Harr): Mr. Hoden, I'd like to hand you 13 Exhibit Number 17 for identification. 14 A. Do you want this one back? 15 Q. Sorry, Mr. Hoden, did you say something? 16 A. If you want the other one back. 17 Q. Yes, I do, thank you. 18 A. Sure. 19 Q. I believe you previously read a portion of a posting 20 that was described by -- as a posting by somebody else on the 21 range of a pluton M.R.B.M. (deleted for purpose of national 22 security)? 23 A. That's correct. 24 Q. Do you know what the range of a -- do you know what 25 an M.R.B.M. is? 26 A. It's some kind of a missile. I forget which -- I 27 remember I looked up at the time to find out what an M.R.B.M. 28 was, because when I first read it I didn't know what it was. 230 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 Q. And do you know what the range of it is? 2 A. I can't remember. 3 Q. Did you read it? 4 A. I got this sheet that had on the top "M.R.B.M." and 5 it had a whole lot of things about -- you know, like a 6 description of what the missile could do and all those things. 7 And I can't remember -- I looked down it quickly, and it said 8 it was capable of carrying massive payloads, you know, with 9 bombs and that sort of thing. And I didn't -- I don't 10 remember the distance that this thing could go. 11 Q. Okay. Massive payloads, massive; how much is 12 massive, do you recall? 13 A. Well, it could carry a nuclear warhead. That's 14 pretty massive in my book. In other words, it's going to blow 15 up more than a shack, or some kind of -- whatever they stick 16 in it is what they stick in it, I suppose. But in other 17 words, it was some kind of government missile, war missile. 18 For blowing things up, killing people, that's what it was. 19 Q. Government missile? 20 A. Some kind of government missile. 21 Q. Okay. Do you know where Mr. Henson lives, what 22 city? 23 A. Lives up near San Francisco somewhere. 24 Q. And to your knowledge have any Scientologists ever 25 picketed his home? 26 MR. SCHWARZ: Objection, your Honor. 27 THE COURT: Overruled. 28 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I heard that there was some 231 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 people from our church up in San Francisco - 2 THE COURT: The answer is "yes"? 3 THE WITNESS: Yes. 4 Q. (By Mr. Harr): And isn't it true that some of that 5 picketing took place between May of 2000 and August of 2000? 6 A. I don't know when it took place. It took place, I 7 heard about it one time in the summer somebody went up there 8 and did something like that from our church in -- I don't -- I 9 don't remember -- some church. We have quite a few in the San 10 Francisco area. 11 Q. So - 12 A. I didn't see it, I heard it. I heard that something 13 like that happened. 14 Q. To your knowledge have members of the church of 15 Scientology ever picketed Mr. Henson's wife's place of 16 employment? 17 MR. SCHWARZ: Objection, your Honor. 18 THE COURT: Overruled. 19 THE WITNESS: Does that mean I answer it? 20 THE COURT: Yes. 21 THE WITNESS: Okay. I heard that, too. 22 Q. (By Mr. Harr): And isn't it true that you have in 23 fact sent some people out in front of Golden Era to the road 24 area to stay real close to Mr. Henson when he's out there? 25 A. I hired two security people. 26 THE COURT: The answer is "yes"? 27 THE WITNESS: Yes. Oh, yes, yes. Sorry. 28 Q. (By Mr. Harr): Isn't it true they usually stay 232 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 about five feet from Mr. Henson? 2 A. Well, I think it's more like five to ten. 3 Q. Pretty close? 4 A. Yes. The police suggest I keep them five to ten 5 feet away. 6 THE COURT: Excuse me, the answer was between five 7 and ten feet? 8 THE WITNESS: Five and ten. 9 Q. (By Mr. Harr): And the police also say that he has 10 a right to be there? 11 A. Absolutely. 12 Q. So it's unlikely, isn't it, that - 13 THE COURT: Counsel, the form of the question is 14 going to lead us to an objectionable question. 15 MR. HARR: Yes, your Honor. 16 Q. Isn't it true that Mr. Henson always or almost 17 always has a picket sign when he's in some proximity to Golden 18 Era of the events that you have observed? 19 A. Yeah. I would say maybe 80 percent of the time at 20 least that I saw. I could only talk about what I saw. I know 21 when he was at the apartments - 22 THE COURT: That's all we're interested in, just 23 what you saw. 24 THE WITNESS: Yeah. But never at the -- where we 25 live. 26 Q. (By Mr. Harr): Okay. Well, please don't think I'm 27 trying to give you a hard time here, but you've never seen him 28 carrying a missile with him; have you? 233 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 A. No. 2 Q. And he never said, "I'm going to shoot a missile at 3 Mr. Hoden" in any of these postings? 4 A. Well, I -- I can't agree with you on that point. 5 Q. So you have seen a posting of the items that we've 6 talked about today that says, "I'm going," "I, Keith Henson, 7 am going to shoot a missile at Mr. Hoden," quote, unquote? 8 A. No. Let me explain my answer - 9 Q. I do believe that answer would be "no." 10 A. No, well, if somebody - 11 THE COURT: The answer is "no"? 12 THE WITNESS: I'm not sure what to say, your Honor, 13 just -- no. 14 Q. (By Mr. Harr): And I take it you have observed 15 Mr. Henson's clothing on the occasion when you've seen him out 16 there, he's been wearing clothes; right? 17 A. Oh, yes. 18 Q. Regular pockets on his pants? 19 A. Pockets on his pants. 20 Q. Regular -- did he have a -- did he ever have a 21 backpack on? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Were your security people right by him? 24 A. Like I said, five to ten feet away. 25 Q. And you got no reports that he was carrying 26 200-pound bombs in a backpack, I take it? 27 A. Nobody ever reported that to me. 28 Q. And I take it that you never got any reports from 234 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 the people who were five to ten feet away from him that he was 2 ever carrying a weapon in the nature of a firearm or a knife? 3 A. They didn't know what he was carrying in the bag. 4 Q. So I take it you never got a report that he was 5 carrying one? 6 A. No. 7 Q. I believe I still have not retrieved that exhibit. 8 A. Yeah, I got it here. 9 MR. HARR: Thank you. No further questions, your 10 Honor. 11 THE COURT: Redirect. 12 MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you, your Honor. 13 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 14 BY MR. SCHWARZ: 15 Q. Counsel -- with all due respect to Counsel, that's 16 his job, he cut you off when you were trying to explain 17 something. So I'm going to follow up with some questions. 18 Okay? 19 A. Okay. 20 Q. You indicated that you were trying to explain how 21 everyone was notified with respect to Mr. Henson's presence; 22 what were you trying to -- what was the end of that sentence? 23 A. Well, that there was various people whose job it was 24 that if they were notified they would then notify someone 25 else. So when the beeper went off, that might have notified a 26 hundred and let's say 60 people. No, more like 125 people. 27 About 125 people. And then they would tell the other people 28 that, "Hey, listen, don't walk by the road, the guy's out 235 Amanda M. Fa an C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 there right now," or whatever they would say to each other. 2 And then when he left another beep got sent to tell them that 3 the drill's over. 4 Q. Okay. So it was disseminated, you had some kind of 5 chain of command? 6 A. System, yeah. 7 Q. System. Now, Mr. Harr talked about some kind of - 8 you didn't sign a citizen's arrest. Give us that story, 9 because I didn't understand what you were saying. 10 A. Yes, sir. What happened was Officer Rowe came out, 11 we showed him all these evidence and all these postings. He 12 went out there, handcuffed Mr. Henson and took him to jail. 13 About an hour and-a-half later I got a call back from -- they 14 arrested him. So. And I got a call back, and this is what I 15 didn't understand earlier, Judge. I got a call back from 16 Officer Rowe. He says, "Do you want to do a citizen's 17 arrest"? I says, "I thought you already arrested him." He 18 says, "Well, I did, but do you want to do a citizen's arrest"? 19 I says, "Well, I don't know, I thought he was already 20 arrested." He says, "Well, what we could do is we could just 21 send this matter to the D.A. and then have him bring charges. 22 Or you can do a citizen's arrest." I said, "Send it to the 23 District Attorney's Office and have them press charges." And 24 that's what Mr. Rowe did. 25 Q. Okay. So it's not as though the officer came to you 26 and says, "This is Mr. Henson, what do you want me to do with 27 him," you're going to sign a citizen's arrest like if he 28 shoplifted something? 236 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 A. No, no, no. He took him off in the black and white 2 car. 3 Q. Cuffed him, took him away? 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. So that was Deputy Rowe's decision at that point? 6 A. That's correct. 7 Q. Okay. Mr. Hoden, Mr. Harr is right, there is no 8 posting in any of those -- your name does not appear in any of 9 the postings - 10 THE COURT: Is that a question? 11 MR. SCHWARZ: It's a comment, your Honor. 12 THE COURT: Let's limit it to questions. 13 MR. SCHWARZ: Okay. 14 Q. Why are you afraid if the postings don't mention you 15 by name? 16 A. Well, one, my wife works there, I didn't want 17 anything bad to happen to my wife. Also, too, if a big bomb 18 goes off and it's aimed at you, and it's gigantic, it's also 19 going to get me. So there was a personal fear that I was 20 going to get hurt. But also, too, my main responsibility is 21 to make sure that things are safe for my staff to do what they 22 do in the church. And therefore, there was a fear for them. 23 Because it's not as if one person, one of my staff is more 24 important than another and it's okay for this one to get 25 killed but not okay for this one. In other words, they're all 26 important to me. 27 Q. But the question is, sir - 28 A. Sorry. 237 Amanda M. Fagan, C. S. R . #8764 RPR 1 Q. -- why are you personally afraid? 2 A. Well, I'm more up front, all right. I'm a possible 3 target because I am who I am. 4 THE COURT: All right. You've answered that. 5 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Okay. So you work at Gold Base, 6 you've testified before? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Okay. Now, were these threats -- well, Golden Era, 9 rather. Mr. Harr made a question about something referring to 10 Gold Base; how do you take that, by the way? 11 A. Well, it's all - 12 MR. HARR: I'm sorry, I'm not clear on that. 13 MR. SCHWARZ: Okay. I'll rephrase. I'll rephrase. 14 Q. Mr. Harr in his question referred to a term "Gold 15 Base," and he -- there was no explanation what he meant by 16 that. So what is Gold Base? 17 A. I don't know. I think it's part of this whole - 18 THE COURT: Your answer is you don't know? 19 THE WITNESS: I don't know what it's referring to, 20 yeah, you're right. 21 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): So you don't believe that it's 22 referring to Golden Era Productions? 23 THE COURT: Counsel, he's answered the question. 24 THE WITNESS: He's referring to it in a derogatory 25 fashion, that's all I'm saying. 26 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): All right. Listen to the 27 question I'm asking. Listen to the question I'm asking. All 28 right. When Mr. Harr referred to "Gold Base," what do you 238 Amanda M. Fagan, C. S. R. #8764 RPR 1 think he was referring to? 2 A. Church of Scientology Golden Era Productions. 3 Q. That's what I'm asking. Not how someone else refers 4 to it or how you refer to it, but how you understood that 5 term. 6 A. That's right. 7 Q. Now, did you -- we've gone over these postings. 8 Were any of the postings, did they direct you to a particular 9 location? 10 A. Oh, yes. 11 Q. Okay. And then the buses, did that mention where 12 that was at? Where did all these events occur? When he was 13 reporting about the buses and you read stuff like that - 14 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, leading. 15 MR. SCHWARZ: I'm simply asking what - 16 THE COURT: Overruled. 17 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): What was he referring to? 18 A. The postings - 19 THE COURT: If you know. 20 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I know. He was referring to 21 over the different tunnels, he's referring to the chapel and 22 the other buildings - 23 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Generally wise what are we 24 talking about? 25 A. All at the Church of Scientology, yes. 26 Q. That's you're afraid because he's referring to the 27 Church of Scientology? 28 A. That's correct, where I work. 239 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 Q. Got it. Now, in posting number two, what's been 2 previously been marked as Exhibit Number 2 about the paren and 3 the little asterisk, you said that it was to your 4 understanding it refers to David Miscavige? 5 A. That's right. 6 Q. Again, who is David Miscavige? 7 A. He is the ecclesiastical leader of the church. 8 Q. A threat to David Miscavige, why would that make you 9 afraid? 10 A. Well, if you have somebody that you know and you 11 like and you hear about somebody wants to blow them up with a 12 missile, that's just a natural reaction to be afraid for them, 13 afraid for anybody around them. 14 Q. I'll rephrase. Is Mr. Miscavige a Scientologist? 15 A. Oh, yes. 16 Q. Okay. And the threat was against Mr. Miscavige? 17 MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, that's a 18 conclusion. That hasn't been determined that it's a threat. 19 THE COURT: Sustained. 20 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Is the posting regarding 21 Mr. Miscavige? 22 A. That's correct. 23 Q. He is a Scientologist? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Are you a Scientologist? 26 A. Yes, I am. 27 Q. Okay. Would that cause you concern? 28 A. Yes, it would. 240 Amanda M. Fa an C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 THE COURT: Counsel, let us take our afternoon 2 recess now. The Court wants to do a little bit of research. 3 And we'll take our lunch recess, get back here at 1:30. We've 4 got a chance to get a little bit further, but not too much 5 further away from the court for lunch. Please don't discuss 6 the case. We'll see you back here at 1:30. Thank you very 7 much. Court's in recess. 8 (The jury exited the courtroom.) 9 THE COURT: Counsel, you can approach. 10 MR. HARR: Thank you, your Honor. 11 THE COURT: Let me talk about something.Here, 12 Counsel.Let me ask, have you, both of you drafted any 13 instructions as yet? 14 MR. SCHWARZ: Your Honor - 15 THE COURT: I don't think we'll be through today. 16 MR. SCHWARZ: No. I have -- I have some 17 instructions, but Mr. Harr - 18 MR. HARR: Most of them are going to be standard, 19 address the issue. There are a couple we are going to have to 20 draft, agree and disagree about, but most of them will be the 21 standard instructions. 22 THE COURT: Well, I don't want to take time from the 23 trial to do that. I want to do that, I mean, the Court will 24 be dark on Monday. But I think that I'd like to have you 25 submit what you agree to and what you disagree about in terms 26 of the instructions, submit it on Tuesday morning, and the 27 Court will review it and make a determination as to which it 28 will receive, and which it will give, and which it will not. 241 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 How long do you think -- was this the longest witness? 2 MR. SCHWARZ: This was the very longest witness, 3 your Honor, because of all the documents. 4 THE COURT: Yes, I understand. And how much longer 5 do you think the other witness - 6 MR. SCHWARZ: Well, we have the police officers, 7 that won't take very much time. And we have a couple of 8 victims. But we're not going to go through the entire 9 documents for the Court's -- obviously we're not going to talk 10 -- we're going to talk about it in general terms. So it 11 should be rather fast at this point. I wouldn't be surprised 12 if it's possible we could actually get done today with the 13 People's side. 14 THE COURT: Counsel, are you planning to put on a 15 defense? 16 Let's leave it. 17 MR. HARR: Well, what I - 18 THE COURT: Excuse me. I don't even want to go 19 there. 20 MR. HARR: It wasn't about the defense. It was 21 about the issue of the -- excuse me, your Honor, if you were 22 going to - 23 THE COURT: No, I just -- I want you to have the 24 jury instructions by Tuesday morning. 25 MR. HARR: Will do, your Honor. 26 MR. SCHWARZ: Absolutely. We'll have it done. 27 THE COURT: I was just inquiring more by curiosity 28 than anything else when you intended to be finished. 242 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR 1 MR. HARR: I rested my cross-examination today 2 because of the last minute notice on these redacted items and 3 I knew we had to go, and I'm not objecting to that now. 4 THE COURT: Excuse me, Counsel. You have over the 5 noon hour to propound any questions that you want on rebuttal. 6 MR. HARR: Thank you, your Honor, I'll do that. 7 THE COURT: Okay? 8 MR. HARR: Thank you, your Honor. 9 THE COURT: Okay. Let's go to lunch. 10 MR. HARR: I don't believe I've given this to 11 Mr. Schwarz officially. 12 MR. SCHWARZ: Yeah, can I - 13 THE COURT: Yeah. You might want to formulate some 14 questions. 15 (Noon recess taken.) 16 AFTERNOON SESSION 17 (The following proceedings were held in open court 18 in the presence of the jury.) 19 THE COURT: Good afternoon. Would you call 20 Mr. Hoden in, please. 21 THE DEPUTY: Yes, your Honor. 22 THE COURT: Good afternoon. 23 THE WITNESS: Good afternoon, sir. 24 THE COURT: Have a seat. 25 Counsel. 26 Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Good afternoon, Mr. Hoden. 27 A. Good afternoon. 28 Q. I take it your lunch was okay? 243 Amanda M. Fagan, C.S.R. #8764 RPR