Tigger wrote:
> Thanks for posting this.....but it probably won't get to google because
> of its length.
>
> I hope Mikey's available to put it on his website before it disappears
> from a.r.s.
>
> I'll try to email it to myself and then post it in segments after
> Christmas so it will get on google.
>
> Tigger
IMHO the last 2-3% of the transcript is most important, as Judge Schaeffer says plainly just where she's at in many ways. Tilman has posted excerpts of the key bits.
Here's my brief restatement of where she's at. She is really annoyed at the Scn lawyers for many reasons, among them their discourtesy of constantly interrupting her, and she is wise to their ways. She is inclined to disqualify Dandar because of what she calls gross appearance of impropriety. She gives him a very short time to answer that. She wants to proceed with the wrongful death case and doesn't seem to think it's such a big and complex deal as so much of the battling so far would indicate, because it is going to come down to medical experts' testimony. She seems to understand the substance of the wrongful death claim very well and isn't going to be knocked away from it.
Ed
From: Jeff Jacobsen <cultxpt@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Interesting Information
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 21:30:10 -0700
Message-ID: <9fof0v46d89e83j3acjefhj83a973mj3lv@4ax.com>
On Mon, 23 Dec 2002 20:00:28 -0500, "Jesse Prince" <res1cpaw@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> 1
>
> 1
>
> 2 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR PINELLAS COUNTY, FLORIDA
>
> 3 CASE NO. 00-5682-CI-11
>
> 4
> DELL LIEBREICH, as Personal
> 5 Representative of the ESTATE OF
> LISA McPHERSON,
> 6
>
> 7 Plaintiff,
>
> 8 vs.
>
> 9 CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY FLAG
> SERVICE ORGANIZATION, JANIS
> 10 JOHNSON, ALAIN KARTUZINSKI
> and DAVID HOUGHTON, D.D.S.,
> 11
> Defendants.
> 12
>
1) claim that Jesse Prince should be disqualified from the case because he has intimate knowledge of the legal strategies of the RTC, which they concede he was a high ranking officer in.
2) the RTC is completely seperate from FLAG (the entity Lisa's estate is suing) and therefore is not involved in the case in any way.
The judge caught this "having it both ways" and is inclined to deny their petition precisely because it's contradictory positions.
From: "Feisty" <sunny@skytoday.com>
Subject: Re: Interesting Information
Organization: Tilton B. Sideways
Message-ID: <WPSN9.7566$lg1.2306118@dca1-nnrp1.news.algx.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 06:06:46 GMT
Michael 'Mike' Gormez <mike@psychassualt.org> wrote in message
news:m3rf0vkic10iuon89h7m4uop8ou8n7uu42@4ax.com...
> In article <9fof0v46d89e83j3acjefhj83a973mj3lv@4ax.com> , Jeff Jacobsen
> <cultxpt@primenet.com> wrote:
>
> >Whew! What a long thing. If I could try to summarize it, I'd say it
> >was that Co$ is trying to have it both ways;
> >
> >1) claim that Jesse Prince should be disqualified from the case
> >because he has intimate knowledge of the legal strategies of the RTC,
> >which they concede he was a high ranking officer in.
> >
> >2) the RTC is completely seperate from FLAG (the entity Lisa's estate
> >is suing) and therefore is not involved in the case in any way.
> >
> >The judge caught this "having it both ways" and is inclined to deny
> >their petition precisely because it's contradictory positions.
>
> I see it differenlty
>
> 1) Jesse has intimate knowledge and that's why the new motion vs.
> previously he was a janitor and certainly not an expert. No affidavit
> forthcoming detailing his knowledge and the judge knows it.
>
> 2) RTC and Flag are separate vs. attorneys for Flag are arguing that
> former RTC employee should not testify.
>
> Search for 'fine line' in the text.
I see it in whatever way is best to discredit Jesse and keep him silenced -
1) If he was a janitor before, then he was not credible and had no knowledge. Remember in Bairds court, he was literally labeled as a racist because of the picket video the judge allowed co$ to play. If I remember correctly, the tape of Jesse in uniform was disallowed. Now that that tape has been allowed in Schaefers court (as the testimony refers) he now is being viewed as someone who has been around the world talking to lawyers and telling lawyers what to litigate. To admit this before in Bairds court would have determined his credibility and whatever evidence with him.
2) RTC vs Flag has been caught by judge Schaefer. Once anyone realizes how many motions and how many interruptions and manipulations the co$ attempts in court, it is alarming to look back and see how evident it is they do not want Jesse as a witness. All hell broke loose in Bairds courtroom and there were so many webs spun it is appreciated to see how this issue is one amongst the many that they hoped to divert. She knows very well of the issue of how Jesse's fate as a witness is at risk, purely by the motion at hand. And lest anyone forget, the tempestuous entrances and repetitive dialogues, special deliveries by Monica Yingling and the disapproval of much evidence back in February is remarkable. Did the co$ pull in the RTC vs Flag all to this account also?
All in the name of silence folks...
Feisty
>
> Mike Gormez
>
> - Visit Occupied Clearwater with Nessie http://nessie.psychassualt.org/
> - Death and lies. Lisa is gone the lies remain - lisa.whyaretheydead.net
> - Cover up of child sexual abuse by Scientologists -
sexual.taxexemptchildabuse.net
> - RPF kids and their misery -
http://www.whyaretheydead.net/childabuse/rpf-children.html
From: "Android Cat" <androidcat99@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Interesting Information
Message-ID: <YPUN9.1425$o51.479969@news20.bellglobal.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 03:23:29 -0500
Organization: Bell Sympatico
"ptsc" <ptsc@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:he3g0v89sps0q43ipthmt02ogt8era8b7n@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 23 Dec 2002 23:46:08 -0700, root@127.1 wrote:
>
> >> 13 As your Honor points out, the entire matter
was
> >> 14 handled without any curfluffle whatsoever. And
so
>
> >"Curfluffle"?
>
> >Is that a legal term? I can't find it any of my reference books.
>
> >Has Dresher slipped up like this before?
>
> It should be marked as a phonetic transcription of a word that,
> perhaps, the transcriber didn't know. Weirdly enough, the word
> exists:
>
> http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=kerfuffle
> Main Entry: ker·fuf·fle
> Pronunciation: k&r-'f&-f&l
> Function: noun
> Etymology: alteration of carfuffle, from Scots car- (probably from
Scottish
> Gaelic cearr wrong, awkward) + fuffle to become disheveled
> Date: 1946
> chiefly British : DISTURBANCE, FUSS
Weirdly? Heh, I certainly didn't have to look *that* word up! It should be fairly common in Scotland.
It's between a brouhaha and a donnybrook. :^)
Ron of that ilk.
From: Warrior <warrior@xenu.ca>
Subject: Re: Interesting Information
Date: 23 Dec 2002 23:55:31 -0800
Message-ID: <au93tj030g@drn.newsguy.com>
>In article <3e07b1be@news2.lightlink.com> , "Jesse Prince"
><res1cpaw@verizon.net> posted:
>
>> 1 THE COURT: Well, the other day, if I
>> 2 remember --
>> 3 Just let me stop you for just a minute.
>> 4 If I remember correctly, Mr. Dandar said, well,
>> 5 really, no, there wasn't any introspection rundown.
>> 6 It was the church that was quite adamant that there
>> 7 was an introspection rundown.
In article <mokf0v44mmcc8sfe05ko2pugtiusa4df1e@4ax.com>, Michael says...
>
>Why does Dandar say there was [no] IR? I know the argument of McCabe
>but missed his.
This is Judge Schaeffer saying what she recalls Kennan Dandar said. Without checking to see if she recalls correctly, I think it is clear that the Introspection Rundown "auditing" was never started.
Although step 0 consists of isolating the person, and step 00 is the administering of vitamins and minerals, the rundown could be seen to majorly be the performance of certain "auditing" procedures.
It could be argued, I suppose, that Lisa wasn't on the rundown yet, and rather that she was simply a victim of being held against her will, drugged and not allowed to receive competent medical care.
Without seeing her "pc folder" contents, I do not know whether there is any evidence of her having been started on the "auditing" part of the rundown. (I don't believe she ever progressed that far.) For "normal" people (those not in a psychotic state), steps 0 and 00 are not done, and so the Introspection Rundown begins at step 1.
In my opinion, it's not necessary to get into whether Lisa was partaking of a "religious" service, i.e., the Introspection Rundown. And, as Judge Schaeffer correctly noted, it is _Flag_ who is making that argument in an attempt to derail the trial as a violation of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act -- putting religious beliefs on trial. For more, see: http://www.sptimes.com/TampaBay/80698/Scientologists_fighti.html
My opinion is that whether or not she was on the Introspection Rundown is immaterial *except* insofar as Kennan Dandar has had to deal with Scientology's fatuous claim that Lisa's "care" was a protected religious practice. In fact, even Scientology policy states that a person who is psychotic is beyond the facilities of orgs not equipped with hospitals, and that individuals who are sick should first get qualified medical care.
Warrior - Sunshine disinfects http://warrior.xenu.ca
>McCabe's Response to Defense Motion to Dismiss the Lisa McPherson Criminal
>Case on Grounds of Religious Freedom Restoration Act
>6 December 1999
>
>The defendant also suggests that the prosecution imposes "legal"
>disabilities on it and certain adherents, specifically the treatment of
>PTS, Type III behavior and use of the introspection rundown. However, it
>is more likely that prosecution will support compliance with Scientology
>policy by the local corporation with Hubbard's directives that psychotics
>not be treated at Flag, that they be given comprehensive medical
>examinations before treatment and that "Type III's" not be treated at
>"orgs" such as Flag without hospital facilities. Since a Hubbard directive
>prevents treatment of psychotics by CSFSO employees this does not
>constitute a substantial burden to the religious beliefs of the
>organization. Moreover, since an introspection rundown was never
>accomplished and therefore did not contribute to Lisa's demise, only the
>charge of practicing medicine is potentially affected by this claim.
>Because the statute prohibiting the unlicensed practice of medicine
>contains a religious accommodation defense for following the religious
>tenets of a church, it cannot be validly argued that the prosecution has
>the claimed effect.
>http://whyaretheydead.net/lisa_mcpherson/legal/mccabe1299.htm
>
>
>
>Mike Gormez
>
>- Scientology and health www.whyaretheydead.net
>- 'Religious' child abuse and neglect www.taxexemptchildabuse.net
>- Visit Occupied Clearwater with Nessie http://nessie.psychassualt.org/
>- The hearing transcripts http://whyaretheydead.net/lisa_mcpherson/bob/
From: Mike O'Connor <mike@leptonicsystems.com>
Subject: Re: Interesting Information
Organization: Leptonic Systems Inc
X-Face: %I5[u;NN-d'{}I|+j$Riju_Eu}N!t).F:-~.me!)K-xe%_CG6[L\)wALnAYG~rN9'j8eK2s}[%*qA5J>L*vPc^b6pO[2j#)?78<2(m\Yx_\_ug:@i,.;U_'ags%TfqMIWH~/YLm<G^;%~j9/HUiT(a>JJ^p
Message-ID: <mike-1B7A41.04071324122002@rcache1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 09:07:09 GMT
In article <au93tj030g@drn.newsguy.com>, Warrior <warrior@xenu.ca> wrote:
> My opinion is that whether or not she was on the Introspection Rundown
> is immaterial *except* insofar as Kennan Dandar has had to deal with
> Scientology's fatuous claim that Lisa's "care" was a protected religious
> practice.
I agree with this. I believe Lisa McPherson was on the Introspection Rundown, though. The guarded isolation she was in was muzzled, as the rundown instructs and the cult logs indicate. This seems to indicate the Rundown. It would have been step 0, and though that step does appear to instruct auditing, that would not necessarily be started until she was "destimulated" enough to be able to even do it. Of course, the imprisoned woman didn't become able, in fact she became unresponsive to almost everything and never got any auditing or much of anything else but sleeping potions, until she died of dehydration and severe bed rest. RIP
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
ISOLATION
With someone in a psychotic break, it is necessary to isolate the person for him to destimulate and to protect him and others from possible damage. While in isolation the person receives the Introspection RD done flawlessly on a shortsession basis, gradiently winning and gaining confidence. Between sessions the muzzled rule is in force. No one speaks to the person or in his hearing.
-- The Introspection Rundown
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
She is resting now. She originated that she knows we are trying to help
her although she doesn't know our names and we don't talk to her. The
rest of her comm is the usual confused stuff.
She also had a couple ozs of water.
Body wise she is very restful & gentle. She has tried to stand a couple of times but is not strong enough.
-- Cult-supplied babywatch logs
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
-- LYING IS A SCIENTOLOGY SACRAMENT ASK THEM ABOUT XENU Mike O'Connor <http://www.leptonicsystems.com/>
From: ptsc <ptsc@nowhere.com>
Subject: Re: Interesting Information
Organization: Busts Your Rips!
Message-ID: <2atg0vo78g0t9b0ichjj2reglf8qjl1sd8@4ax.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 14:55:10 GMT
On Tue, 24 Dec 2002 11:44:43 +0100, Tilman Hausherr <tilman@berlin.snafu.de> wrote:
>>> 14 I've already disqualified Mr. Dandar on the
>>>
>>> 15 counterclaim. It may well be that as to those
>>>
>>> 16 matters in the counterclaim there's some unfair
>>>
>>> 17 advantage. I have no idea. That's a totally
>>>
>>> 18 separate case.
>I don't understand that - I thought that the counterclaim is in an other
>Judge's court?
No. There are two "cases" before Judge Schaeffer, the case itself, and the counterclaim alleging abuse of process and other nefarious things by Dandar. The counterclaim has been bifurcated from the claim itself and will be heard separately and after the original case, since it isn't ripe until then, and for that matter, trying the counterclaim at the same time would create a mess that would make it impossible to try the claim itself (which was of course the purpose of filing it in the first place).
The case before Judge Baird is a breach of contract case, tied closely to the federal case in Texas which is currently before the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals. An additional case is the probate case in Pinellas, in which both Bob Minton and RTC have attempted, so far unsuccessfully, to meddle. RTC has also attempted similar shenanigans in Texas.
ptsc -- Liberty is better served by presenting a clear target to one's opponents than by joining with them in an insincere and useless brotherliness.
-Benedetto Croce