Report 95-29158
AOA/Death Investigation
December 6, 1995
Interview With Bonnie Portolano
April 2, 1996
Page 6
160   1 had laid her down and put a sheet over top of her.
161   And uh   the police officers came in with her   her
162   garments and   and gave them to us. And they said
163   they'd be waiting outside  to see what we were gonna
164   do with this as far as transporting possible Baker
165   Act   we didn't know. So umm  oh, let's see  she
166   went  she went on saying the main thing that    that
167   she had done wrong was that "She took her eyes off the
168   object". And that that's a quote you know
169   took - my eyes of f the object   That seemed to be a
170   really big thing for her. Umm I don't know what
object it was. Umm... I don't know when ... was it
in church or what. Umm ... at that point I didn't
know she was a Scientologist. Umm. ... a police officer
174   stepped in and asked what she wanted him to do with
175   her car. And umm  so she said "Can you have it
176   towed to the address?" Because it became apparent
177   we were gonna take her. I had told the police
178   officers we were gonna take her but I didn't know
17.9  if I needed them because, if she would go voluntarily,
180   1 did not need a Baker Act. If she wasn't 'going to
181   go voluntarily, I did need a Baker Act because
182   obviously she needed to go she needed help. So
183   she told the police officer that she would like it
184   towed to she gave an address and it was on Osceola.
185   That was a flag to me I'm dealing with a Scientologist.
186   So she gave the address and the police officer said
187   "Okay, fine". She said "But you have to make sure
188   it gets into a specific parking space" I'm not
sure which one it was. The police officer said.
6  "We can't guarantee that" and she seemed 'to be
191   troubled by that because it had to go in the right
192   spot. So she said "Can you call my girlfriend?".
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December 6, 1995
interview With Bonnie Portolano
April 2, 1996
Page 7
193   Let me take a drink real quick (PAUSE WHILE SHE
194   TAKES A DRINK). So she gave a name and a phone
195   number of her girlfriend. She said "My girlfriend
196   will come and pick it up and she'll put it where
197   it needs to go" Umm  we didn't think anything
198   about that either. So umm  the police officer took
199   that information and he was still waiting outside
200   the ambulance. Umm   Lisa said she did want help.
201   Umm   she said "I'm tired". She would keep closing
202   her eyes and umm  just tuning me out tuning
203   everything out. And I would take that opportunity
...her...those long pauses to think about what she
said placed together. I did ask her "Are you
a Scientologist?" once she gave the address. And
207   she said "Yes, I am". Umm  she closed her eyes, so
208   I just kinda thought where am I gonna go with
zu!~ this how am I   how how am I gonna approach her
210 with this. So my approach was just to get her to.
211   talk a little more. The only way I could get her to
212   talk once she closed her eyes and she's totally tuned
213   me out   she's totally tuned my partner out  I could
214   ask her a question but she wouldn't answer unless I
215   said "Lisa, open your eyes". Her eyes would pop wide
216   open she'd look directly at me and she'd say
217   "Okay, I'll answer however you want me I'll answer
218   I've answered all your questions". And umm   so I
219   would just ask questions that umm now I can't remember
220   them. I didn't.think they were like really that
221   important   would.be that important later. But they,
were basically questions of her feelings ... her
emotions ... umm ... why ... you know-why ... what brought
224   her to this point-little things like this. And and
225   mainly she would go off on these long tangents. Umm
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AOA/Death Investigation
December 6, 1995
interview With Bonnie Portolano
april 2, 1996
page 8
226   one of them specifically I remember telling Det. Sudler
227   was she went on this long thing on how she was a bad
228   person because she did not do the dishes before she
229   went to bed and she has a roommate. And there was
230   more to this dishes story, but I wasn't paying
231   attention to that because I knew it wasn't   that
232   wasn't gonna help me with what I was dealing with
233   right there. I was more or less listening to what
234   she was saying but only pulling out the things that
235   1 could come back and re-direct with. Umm so out
236   of the dishes question  the dishes story  I did
come up with a question or a statement or something
that made her reflect upon herself and give me an
answer because... I know that because my partner
240   stated after the call was over "God, you're good".
241   He said "How did you get that out of I didn't do
242   the dishes?'i He goes "I would've never done that"
243   ...   you know    got   pulled that question out of
244   there Umm   I was just linking together little
245   things that she was saying. Umm  so basically what
246   it came down to was Lisa said she wanted help. She
247   knew she needed rest. And umm    she knew she couldn't
248-  ... she couldn't -do what she's doing now. She she
249   needed someone in her words to talk to "I need
250   someone to talk to". And I'm an ambulance I
251   told her I couldn't stay on scene and talk but I can
252   take her to a place where they would listen and umm
253   and they would-you know "You could talk to them
254   is this what you want?" And she said "Yes". But
but initially she was like -"No, no, no... I'm okay".
0  'But I told her umm  you know "It sounds like you've
257   got a lot going on" and that "It would be good for
258   you to take.time now and talk". Because she had
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AOA/Death Investigation
december 6, 1995
interview With Bonnie Portolano
april 2, 1996
Page 9
259   stated that she wanted to talk but maybe not at this
260   time. Uh    but she kept saying "She's so worn.down
261   She's so tired" And I would have to keep pulling
262.  her back open  to open her eyes. And I just "Lisa,
263   can you open your eyes?" Umm  at sometimes I'
264   would ask her a question and she'll say "I don't know
265   the answer to that right now, could you ask me again?"
266   And I'd ask her right again and ummsheld answer it.
267   Uhit just seemed really odd that sometimes she
268   would pull up some information and sometimes it wasn't
269   available even only it's a couple seconds apart.
Uh..so then when I asked her for her address ... although
she ... she did give the police officer her address ...
1 2   she could remember it then    and she gave it to me
273   the Osceola Clearwater address. Ummm so something
274   was going on in her mental processing that   that
275   wasn't giving her    she wasn't having access to
276   information as she wanted it. It was only made
277   available to her at certain times because some
278   simple questions she would say "I don't know
279   the answer to that right now" or "I dont have
280   the answer  can you ask me again?" I asked her
281   again and sometimes still not. I asked-her again
282   ...   there it was. U.mm   Lisa wanted help., We
283   took her to Morton Plant Hospital. They do have
284   a  that is an appropriate facility to take a
285   patient that possibly needs to be have a psych
286   evaluation  And umm  cause they do have a Psych
287   unit. She was willing'to go there. She wanted
We took her there. I took great interesthelp.
in Lisa because she seemed to have a ... a ... there
290   was just something about her something special
291   about her.' I don't know how to describe it as
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AOA/Death Investigation
December 6, 1995
interview With Bonnie Portolano
april 2, 1996
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292   charisma or a zest   something. And I really
293   wanted to see Lisa get help. We went to Morton
294   Plant. I gave my report to the nurse. The
295   the nurse took the report well. She understood
296   everything I was saying. Umm  she understood
297   that Lisa was a Scientologist and-and all the
298   things that Lisa was saying how she wanted to
299   talk that she did want help and she does need
300   rest. Umm   and I did tell her most of this
301   story. Uh   it was at that time that uh that
302   was the last time that I saw Lisa. Umm a few
303   weeks later though, I did see that nurse again
in Morton Plant Emergency Room. And the nurse had
hat Lisa had died at New Port Richey told me t
306   Hospital of a pulmonary embolism. And that   I was
307   just kind of torn apart because because umm  I
308   had wanted her to do well. I wanted more for
309   Lisa. Umm   I did transport into Morton Plant
310   later that very same night of the incident that
311   1 took Lisa there. And I was told that she was
312   no longer there that the Scientologists a group
313   of Scientologists had showed up at the Emergency
Room. And I attribute that to the police officers
315   calling the girlfriend to come and get the car.
316   So I'm sure they found out where she was and why.
317   And umm  the the nurse said that the doctor
318   turned the patient over to the Scientologists and
319   the Scientologists said that they would watch her.
320   Umm   I was very disturbed by this ummm   because
I have some counseling background. I was hoping
that she could resolve some issues that were in
323   her because obviously she was stirred up
324   emotionally and confused. Umm    but to me, it
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AOA/Death Investigation
December 6, 1995
interview With Bonnie Portolano
april 2, 1996
page 11
seemed to turn her back over to the source of
326      her confusion was    would be the same as a batt
327   me bring    bringing a battered wife and the
Jzb   husband showing up in the Emergency Room saying
329   "Oh no no   don't treat her   she's okay  I'll
330   watch her and make sure she's okay". You're
331   sending her right back to the source. I was very
332   frustrated and disturbed that it was out of my
333   hands. There was nothing more I could've done
334   at that time   and was very saddened by it when
335   1 heard she had died.
336   Det. Sudler: Alright. Okay. Bonnie ' umm.'   you keep referring
to an accident that you went  I've got a copy of
a driver's exchanger information of a traffic
339   crash    umm   that was done on the 18th of November
340      at 5:50 p.m. at S. Ft. Harrison Avenue and Belleview
341      Boulevard in which Lisa McPherson and another driver,
342      Joseph McDonald, were involved in a traffic accident'
343      at that location. Umm. . .'is that consistent with the
344      times and the dates of the accident that you're
345      referring to?
346   Portolano:  Yes.
347   Det. Sudler: The vehicles involved  for Lisa was a    a Jeep
vehicle,
348      and the other one was a pickup truck. Is that"pretty
349      much accurate?
350   Portolano:  That's right, and
351   Det. Sudler:   okay.
352   Portolano:  The pickup truck was pulling a boat.
353   Det. Sudler:   Okay. Pulling a boat. Portolano: Uh Huh.
1:5   Det. Sudler:   Okay. And you mentioned that you had a partner
356      with you that night on your ambulance crew.
357   Portolano:  Yes.
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AOA/Death Investigation
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interview With Bonnie Portolano
april 2, 1996
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358 Det. Sudler: Who was who was your partner?
359 Portolano: His name is Markstrange last name Fabryani
360   or Fabry it I don't have the proper spelling.
361      It's a real long odd,name. But his first name is
362      Mark.
363   Det. Sudler:   okay.
364   Portolano:  I've only worked with him one or two times.
365   Det. Sudler:   And he was the E.M.T. assigned to your unit?
366   Portolano:  Yes.
367   Det. Sudler:   And we could get his information from the
368      ambulance office?
369   Portolano:  Right.
C~ Det. Sudler:   Okay. Umm ... when you first met Lisa out at the
scene ... umm ... your primary concern would've been
372   to check and treat any physical injuries she might
373   have sustained. Did she present to you any physical
374   injuries at all?
375   Portolano:  Initially we'd go through the whole umm you know
376   I'd look at her car to see you know there was
377   no windshield damage no interior damage nothing
378   like that. I asked her did she hit her head. Though
379   she presented with no bruising on her face   no
380   markings at all, you still want to ask. Umm she
381   said "No, I did not". Umm she did   she stated
382   that she did have her seatbelt on. Umm so no neck
383   pain no back pain. I went through all of that
384   before I got a refusal. And also, as she was uh
385   you know very she didn't have a stitch on in
386   my'ambulance as she and also. as she was walking down
the street there was nothing obvious. There was no
bruising...no ... no old bruising..umm ... no scratches...
389   umm   nothing  nothing of that contusions
390   hematoses   nothing like that was noted on her. She
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AOA/Death Investigation
December 6, 1995
interview With Bonnie Portolano
april 2, 1996)
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391   seemed to be in perfect health, good condition
392   umm   all of her skin was intact.
393 Det. Sudler: Okay. Umm did you get to see her vehicle.that
394      night at all?
395   Portolano:  I saw it at the scene.
396   Det. Sudler:   At the scene?
397   Portolano:  Uh Huh.
398   Det. Sudler:   You saw the damage to the vehicle?
399   Portolano:  Yeah.
400   Det. Sudler:   Okay. I've got a polaroid photograph that I took
401      sometime later of her vehicle. Is that damage to
402   the red Jeep on the grill area   is that a fair
and accurate representation of the damage that night?
405   Portolano:  Yeah  on this grill  what happened was the prop
406      of the boat just kinda went through the grill.
407   Det. Sudler:   Okay.
408   Portolano:  And that-was it.
409   Det. Sudler:   So from.your experience, a a front end impact
410      of that nature would pretty much be classified
411      as a minor traffic accident?
412   Portolano:  Very  yeah.
413 Det. Sudler: Umm would that be the type of accident that
414   someone would sustain   you know severe injury
415   from or  or would present with multiple injuries
416   from an impact like that?
417   Portolano:  From an impact like that, no especially since
418   the   the   it was traffic hour as you stated the
419   time  you know. That's  so all the traffic
there was a lot of traffic on the road, so there
was no opportunity.for cars.to be flying or whizzing
422   by. And there was a light  you know right there.
423   So it was just a  a small little punch of a prop
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AOA/Death Investigation
December 6, 1995
interview With Bonnie Portolano
aril 2, 1996)
page 14
424      going through a grill and nothing more.
425   Det. Sudler:   Okay. So physically she was okay?
426   Portolano:  Yes, she was.
427   Det. Sudler:   Now, you did,mention that she had some I guess
428      emotional problems   maybe some-you know
429   mental problems or at least   you know some
430   symptoms that may have'been shock or other things
431   that kinda presented toyou that that evening.
432   Uh with all that was said to you, did she indicate
433   that she had a particular problem with any   you
434   know  person or individual    umm that she was
435      afraid of or   you know    any reason why she had
mentioned that she was so tired?
Portolano:  She
438   Det. Sudler:   Did she elaborate on that?
439   Portolano:  She   she didn't elaborate on why she was tired.
440   Umm   she didn't  she   most-most of this was
441   internal    umm   stress I should say, because it
442   wasn't that the church was doing things to her.
443   It was that the church was presenting to her things
444   that she had done wrong that she didn't know. She
445   said "I didn't know I was doing these things wrong".
446   And she so much wanted to be in compliance with the
447   church and she was so it seemed grief stricken, that
448   sh~ was out of line. Umm   that "Oh my gosh
449   ...sort of like "Oh my gosh, look look how bad
450   am    they've just told me I'm doing this, this, and
451   'this wrong". So she wasn't so much it wasn't
452   towards any certain person. It was that she was
internalizing of "Oh gosh, I'm so bad".
Det. Sudler:   okay. Umm   did she talk about her performance at
455      work or her performance in the church?
456   Portolano:  I asked her what she did because for some reason
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December 6, 1995
interview With Bonnie Portolano
april 2, 1996)
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457   1  I don't know whyI did get her work address
458   and her work phone number. That's something I never
459   do. I shouldn't say never. UmmI've done   I've
460   been a paramedic for two years. I've only done it
461   a handful of times. I got Lisa's work address and
462   work phone number because I so cared about her for
463   some reason that I   I was hoping to contact her
464   after this-after she got out to see if she was
465   okay. She said she worked for a publishing company
466   and she liked what she was doing. Umm that's
467   that's all I   that's all I know. Umm I remember
468      it was on Lakeview.
Det. Sudler:   Okay. She didn't mention that she was under any
particular stress from work or..or anything?
471 Portolano: Stress from work didn't exist as far as she
472   she just ex she expressed I guess enjoyment.
473   She liked what she was doing career wise.
474   Det. Sudler:   Okay. Ummso she had no physical marks on her
475   resulting from the accident   Her basic presentation
476   to you was somebody that might be in need of you
477   know a psychiatric evaluation.
478   Portolano: Right  right.
479 Det. Sudler: Okay. Ummwith your medical experience and your
480   training umm do you believe that, if she had
48 1  not been transported to a facility, that she would've
482   presented a danger to herself that evening or to
483   others or   you know    was she competent to    you
484   know  continue?
485   Portolano:  I don't see that she would've been hmmm   well,
I ... when I say ... when I'm thinking of danger, I'm
...I automatically think of take ... wanting to...to
4od   take her life. Obviously she didn't want to take
489   her life, but she was in such a confused state that
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