Scientology

From: jesse77@gte.net (Jesse Prince)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:49:09 GMT
Message-ID: <785bih$ku$1@news-1.news.gte.net>

Who or What is Laura Terepin?

As many of you well know, last July, Stacy Young and I got together as old friends from Scientology and started working together to expose the abuse and deception one is likely to experience in the cult of Scientology.

I flew to LA to meet with attorney Dan Leipold to see if there was anything I could do to help FACTNet with a copyright suit filed by Scientology against FACTNet. During this time Stacy introduced me to many people, but this is about a special person she introduced me to. A woman by the name of Laura Terepin.

Stacy told me that Laura had worked in the Cult Awareness Network with Cynthia Kisser. At this time CAN was now defunct, having been sued into the ground by Scientology and individual Scientologists. Of all the people I had met, Laura seemed very odd and out of place. Specifically, she told me she was not employed, nor had she ever been. Laura seemed to come and go as she pleased, flying here and there just to be with Stacy and others who were involved in legal cases against Scientology.

Laura worked on organizing files for CAN and offered her services to Dan Leipold to help me with an affidavit for the FACTNet case. Laura refused any money for her work and made it clear she did not want to be seen in any court case or in any pictures.

She explained this away by saying her uncle would not approve.

According to Laura, her uncle was extremely wealthy and gave her all the financial support she needed. Laura said her uncle was heavily into the Mafia and organized crime. She also implied this same uncle physically and sexually abused her. She told me she was an adopted child and her parents ignored her most of the time, sending her off to camp and private school. She told me a pitiful story about how her same sex French teacher sexually abused her, which is why she was a lesbian now. However, in the same breath she said she had met a man named Kryle, whom she recently had sex with and she was now not so sure she wanted to remain a lesbian.

Laura was quite obsessed with following me and knowing where I was and what my plans were during the entire time I was in LA.

She came off like she really cared about me and was so worried about me all the time, yet I hardly knew her at all. This went on and on and I talked to Stacy about it. I told Stacy that I thought Laura was a plant and that she was very weird. Laura loved to smoke pot and we smoked some together a couple of times during my trip to LA. Now I will give you the specific instances that made me suspect her.

After hearing the history of Laura we became somewhat intimate.

This in itself was a bit of a shock as when I touched her in intimate places it was like reaching into a deep freezer and grabbing a frozen cat fish. But to hear her moans and groans you would had thought she was seriously hot and bothered. Looking deep into her dark pretty eyes betrayed the hidden frozen cat fish, i.e. there was no emotion there, it was all an act. I began to lose interest in her as a sexual partner, although we still carried on a bit.

Stacy and I took Laura with us to visit a mutual friend whom I am keeping anonymous out of respect.

This friend and I became friends while in the cult and our friendship survived the cult. Well, Laura just loves to smoke pot and had to have some so there we were. My friend immediately suspected her as a plant because the friend didn't know her and had neverheard of her before. Again the history she gave of herself just didn't seem to add up. She told my friend of her involvement with CAN and she added that she found it difficult to work at CAN at times because she felt her boss Cynthia Kisser was trying to have a sexual relationship with her and this confused her. She also said she was ordered to go to Wellspring because of her odd behavior with meditation and such, but she didn't like it and never finished the program. She is a seductive woman and got right down to flirting with my friend, telling the friend what a great person the friend was, etc., etc. Now she had my friend going and my friend offered to let her spend the night at my friends place. She declined but said she wanted to stay in contact with my friend. Later on that night my friend came to me and said there was something odd about her and my friend was concerned that Stacy and I had just brought her to the house without first letting my friend know she was coming.

All the while, private investigators seem to have a magical way of predicting our every move at any given moment.

Stacy and I then stayed at the house of another mutual friend and Laura stayed there as well. I am not mentioning who the mutual friend was by request of the friend. The friend spoke to me later after spending some time with Laura and told me something was very odd about Laura. Laura had told the friend (whom she had just met that day) the sexual abuse story, the criminal uncle � on and on. A person that was at the friend's house told the friend they thought Laura was a plant as her behavior was just too odd.

The next day I met with Dan for the first time, and yes, Laura was there. She told Dan she would help him organize the files for the FACTNet case and she would also type an affidavit for me. The next day Dan's office is swarming with private investigator and OSA drones trying to deliver a letter to me. I posted one of the letters just recently. It was from Elliot Abelson. I don't have the letter to hand but paraphrased it said he understood I was meeting with lawyers who were involved in litigation against Scientology. How in the hell did he know this? At this point I had not written any affidavits or given any testimony against Scientology in any way. There were so many private investigators following me that when I drove down the street it seemed like I was the grand master of a car parade!

The whole time I'm with my lover bunny Laura Terepin. Stacy and I have both written about the antics of the private investigators and OSA drones in LA earlier, so excuse me for not going into all the details again, but I will say this. Laura was supposed to meet me at my hotel for some hot sex late one night but she never showed up. Who did show up were two private investigators with another threatening letter from Scientology stating how they were going to sue me into the ground if I didn't stop associating with hostile attorneys. Can you imagine? Here I am, busy thinking I'm about to get laid on a hot steamy LA night and these goons show up. To say I was frustrated is an understatement, and I ended up kicking in the car door of the private investigator's SUV. He said he was going to blow my black nigger head off and I chased his dumb ass to the highway in my car. My little lover bunny Laura had disappeared and was out of touch. I left LA and flew to Minneapolis.

After I had been in Minneapolis for a few days Laura called me.

I was still upset with her and wanted nothing to do with her. As a matter of fact I told her she could listen in to me having sex with another woman if she wanted to but I had no time for her. I called Stacy and told her I was sure this girl was a plant but Stacy defended her. I was in the middle of moving from Minneapolis to Boulder and I didn't want anything to do with Laura. She called 3-4 times a day to ask me what I was doing and who I was talking to and to tell me how worried she was about me. I did everything I could to blow her off. I told her the next time I wanted to see her face was with me looking down at her with my balls swinging from the tip of her lips. She acted like this excited her beyond belief and I must admit I then doubted how I felt about her.

I finally arrived in Denver last August to give a deposition in the FACTNet copyright case and guess who shows up. Ol' lover bunny herself, Laura Terepin. The last thing on my mind at that time was sex as I had been being mentally abused for 10 hours a day by Sandy Rosen, Scientology's Earl Cooley replacement and El Ron look alike. On the way to my hotel room this gorgeous blonde woman with all the right stuff is trying to get into the room across the hall from my room. She starts a conversation and we decide to meet later at the bar. Well, that sure made me feel better! Later I go down to the bar and the blonde was not there but Laura sure was. I was still pissed off at her and I told her to her face that I thought she was a scientology plant. Oh boy, now she goes into how hurt she is that I would think such a thing, she cried and said she loved me, on and on. Then the blonde shows up so I don't have time to get into it that much with Laura as I was experiencing an extreme deficit of attention for her. Anyway, to make a long story short, me, the blond and Laura all end up going to my room after a few drinks.

I've told this story before as well. Suffice to say, my "Danger, Jesse! Danger!" antenna would not be denied. I ended up getting rid of both Laura and the blonde that night and just went to sleep, as I had to be in court for a hearing and deposition early the next morning. As it turned out, the blonde was a hired whore Scientology tried to run in on me. She was there with her "brother," who happens to be the same private investigator that calls my family and friends representing himself as the Denver police. Lover bunny Laura was there as well, of course.

During the course of the deposition I was asked who was present when I did my affidavit for FACTNet and Sandy Rosen would not give it a rest until he got me to admit Laura Terepin was there as well. I can only imagine he was testing me to see if I would lie under oath as he already knew Laura was there. This is a key point to understand the significance of what that means. Laura Terepin is/was a Scientology plant and I'll get into the details of that later. One of many mistakes Sandy Rosen made was to force me to admit Laura was present at Dan Leipold's office during my activities for the FACTnet case. Hey! Guess what! That is illegal and no one in the world could pay Laura to sue anyone for saying She is/was a plant as Scientology can't bear the scrutiny of the discovery process. Judge Kane won't have it.

Again, Stacy and I were in disagreement about her being a plant but other people were starting to be convinced she was. Laura now wants to come to Vashon to visit Stacy. She said she was involved in copying CAN files because it looked like Scientology would gain possession of the files. Laura offered to help get the files copied at a secret location, but we all know what happened. Scientology lawyers somehow found out where the secret location was and brought a marshal in with a court order. Right after this disaster Laura comes to Vashon and she has to have her pot so I go running off to see if I can help her out. Well, I did manage to get a little bit which she enjoyed. The next day I had to leave for the east coast and was met by DEA agents who had apparently gotten a hot tip. Well, of course, they found nothing because there was nothing for them to find. Laura knew my destination and called to see if I arrived. I had told her I would bring whatever was left over from the pot I had with me.

Can you imagine her despair when she found out I had arrived safely without incident? Wonder why Scientology puts out DA packs about me being a drug abuser? Remember the Scientology sacrament -- if there is no evidence, manufacture it.

After this little incident a private investigator was employed and I gave him as much information as I could about Laura. He came back with confirmation that not only did Laura live with a current Scientology staff member, she was making regular phone calls to a private investigator who works for David Lee who works for Gene Ingram.

I myself have run plants in on groups and people critical of Scientology and I've posted about this before. I apologize if the above information proved to be more reality than some can handle.

Fighting Scientology is serious business. People like Dennis Erlich, Lawrence Wollershim and Paulette Cooper know all to well the depth of criminality to which the cult will sink to prevent exposure.

You want to talk to Laura about it? Here are her last known phone numbers:

909-204-6040
323-376-0506 The last time I actually talked to Laura she was telling me there are things about Scientology that she agreed with and thought were good and sound principles. Specifically she mention the concept of "the greatest good for the greatest number". I listened to what she had to say and pointed out another view of this idea. The concept of the greatest good for the greatest number seems to make sense and even in some cases may be appropriate but it sure is contrary to our American constitution and the constitution of the majority of civilized countries. In America we believe and practice that each and every person has inalienable rights to freedom of speech, the right to privacy --- on and on. If a person of a different faith or culture happens to be in a place where the majority of the people disagree, if the majority then decides to do away with a person because he is different the majority runs to risk of being prosecuted to the full extent of the law. In some cases more does not automatically mean better. A rational analysis of the concept "the greatest good" in fact shows the concept itself has very limited use. However in Scientology it is touted as a basic wonderful discovery of Ron Hubbard. Laura was speechless when I gave her this argument and this was the last time we really talked.

Looking back on why Laura seemed so odd in light of other information that came up about her it is clearer to me why and what was happening. Despite working under cover, Laura is still human. When you associate with people that you may dislike for an extended period of time a person develops feelings anyway.

The business of being a spy or a plant is somewhat different than what Hollywood or TV portrays. I think Laura was/is being paid to provide information to an investigator who in turn reports to the Jerky Boys in OSA because that is the nature of the business. She was not reporting to Jerky boy Miscavage or Jerky boy Rinder because they have to keep distance between themselves and their criminal activities. Laura has feelings and I'm sure was confused about what she was doing and what the results of her actions were because that is how she would act.

Another point is this, maybe Laura's cover story of what she was about was mostly true because it is hard to remember lies over and over but the truth comes natural. I am sure t she is disturbed and needs help. Laura will not be of much use to Scientology at this point and maybe this would be a good opportunity to get honest and straight with herself and those she associates with. If Laura wants to be honest and tell the truth I would be one of the first to applaud her for her courage and accept her as a friend. By her actions she was not able to do any real damage to me or my friends. The fact of the matter is she was having more fun in her association with critics of cults than not.

I don't hate Laura, I don't hate anyone.

Respectfully Submitted, Jesse Prince

From: Roland <roland.rashleigh-berry@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: Who or What is Laura Terepin?
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:25:21 +0000
Message-ID: <785e4r$cpa$1@nclient1-gui.server.virgin.net>

I don't need much convincing. The Clams knew your every move. It was obvious that they had a plant hanging around you and Bob all the time.

You lot should have suspected and investigated it ages ago.

Roland

From: jimdbb@aol.com (JimDBB)
Subject: Re: Who or What is Laura Terepin?
Date: 20 Jan 1999 23:37:28 GMT
Message-ID: <19990120183728.09408.00000274@ng-fb1.aol.com>

>Subject: Who or What is Laura Terepin?
>From: jesse77@gte.net (Jesse Prince)
>Who or What is Laura Terepin?

I am truly appalled at this sick and shocking post from Jesse Prince. I am speechless but I feel that I must make a few comments. I commented in another thread that Laura called me yesterday morning, crying her heart out. These were not fake tears. She told me that only messages of support on the ARS from caring and alert people and a message of support from Cynthia Kisser got her through the night. God knows what she will go though when she reads this sickness from Jesse Prince.

I know Laura Terepin quite well. In fact she is one of the most sincere, caring, giving, hard working persons that I know I worked with her in the CAN office. She was one of several volunteers who came in to help out. I can't imagine a scientology 'plant' working as hard as she did. She was there 2-5 days a week and I mean she worked with complete sincerity and dedication. At the time she was quite reclusive as a result of a serious psychological wounding from her experience in a cult. Cynthia Kisser went out of her way to make her feel wanted and useful there.

The CAN office was a closed office and was under a constant harassment siege from Scientology. A plot to murder Cynthia Kisser had surfaced. It was easy to get suspicious and paranoid about everything. For a period I was suspicious of Laura. I was suspicious of the guy in the car behind me, of the guy standing across from the CAN office, of the truck parked outside of my home. And on and on.

Laura and I were this, past fall, involved in an archival project to copy everything in the CAN Files as scientology was again making legal moves to seize them. This project was scuttled with scientology legal machinations. Laura then told me that there were some who suspected her of being a scientology agent. We laughed it off.

Recently, Bob Minton called me and told me of his allegation regarding Laura. This is the only time that I have spoken with Bob. He seemed very sincere and ernest about this. He was convincing and I leaned in his direction. It would be very convenient to have Laura as a scientology agent It would easily explain a lot of things. How did scientology know everything that CAN did? How did scientologist lawyer, Kendrick Moxon know about the project to copy CAN Files? How did scientology agent, Ian Mann, know of Cynthia Kisser's every Court appearance? How did scientology know of Bob Minton's every move? The answer is so simple, Laura Terepin knew or found about all of these things and passed them on to her scientology handlers by her cell phone with special numbers. I went for this solution, briefly, myself. And I am more than ashamed of it.

I would like to just make a few comments on some of the garbage that Jesse Prince has posted.

< Laura refused any money for her work and made it clear she did not want to be seen in any court case or in any pictures. She explained this away by saying her uncle would not approve.

According to Laura, her uncle was extremely wealthy and gave her all the financial support she needed. Laura said her uncle was heavily into the Mafia and organized crime. >

It's funny that none of us at CAN every heard of the wealthy Mafia uncle. Prince knows her for 10 minutes and has all of this weird history from her.

Prince's next and very sick statement about sex with him is beyond comment. Of all the people I knew in scientology and the former members that I know, I can't think of one who would descend to making such lewd and vicious commments.

>She told my friend of her involvement with CAN and she added that she
>found it difficult to work at CAN at times because she felt her boss Cynthia
>Kisser was trying to have a sexual relationship with her and this confused
>her.

This is totall bullshit. A vicious and sick lie from Mr.

Prince. I hope that both Cynthia Kisser and Laura will sue this guy. Much of the rest of Prince's post is beyond comment except to say that this guy has a vivid sexual fantasy life which includes every women in the world lusting after him.

>Another point is this, maybe Laura's cover story of what she was about was
mostly true because it is hard to remember lies over and over but the truth
comes natural. I am sure t she is disturbed and needs help.>
She is definetly disturbed and will need help after this vicious onslaught from Prince and Minton. In fact, many of us are quite disturbed over this.

>I don't hate Laura, I don't hate anyone.
>Respectfully Submitted,
>
>Jesse Prince
Beneath contempt. Very, very sick.

Jim Beebe

From: deomorto@aol.com (DeoMorto)
Subject: 1/20/98 On infiltration, trust and paranoia
Date: 20 Jan 1999 21:59:23 GMT
Message-ID: <19990120165923.00903.00000188@ng99.aol.com>

I have been reading with dismay the ongoing back and forth about the Accusations against a person accused of being an infiltrator into FACTNET and CAN and an agent of OSA.

The first thing that struck me was that it is no big surprise to me that OSA would have an "agent" somewhere close to FACTNET. Bob Minton et alia - that only makes good sense from a tactical viewpoint.

But whether or not this person is the person or not is another question entirely. That someone had a room mate who was a CofS staffer doesn't make them a plant - in fact the opposite is likely to be true - in the true days of the GO infiltrators severed ALL ties with the orgs - and I mean ALL.

If, as seems to be being alleged, this person has been an "agent" for a long long time and is trusted by all sorts of opponents then OSA Branch 1 would have had to be a) brilliant to have got her into such a position and b) monumentally dumb to have had her staying at a house with scientology employees.

The stuff about the cell phones - Im sorry Bob but the easiest and safest way to covertly report, believe it or not, is by pre-paid long distance cards.

Simple and untraceable.

I am not saying that this person is or is not an agent but given what you have produced so far I would have to say that nothing is very conclusive. It is far to easy to throw trust out of the window due to suspicion and then start advancing theories based on what "must" be the explanation.

Unlike Gary and some others the fact that the person has expressed support for Gay Rights or whatever doesn't mean anything either - an OSA agent woul willingly say anything up to and including insulting old elron himself.

So where does that leave you?

Well if the lady in question is not working for OSA then you have shot yourself in the foot and the wallet.

If she is working for OSA then they have lost the services of an agent.

What surprises me is that Jesse and Stacy did not talk you out of this move - if, as you suspect, the person is an OSA agent you had a great opportunity to absolutely destroy OSA and the CofS - any attorney client privileged material gotten by her and provably ending up in the hands of the cofs would have several cofs lawyers running for Belize pronto. It would also have destroyed any chance the cofs had in litigation with Larry Wollersheim or with FACTNET.

You could have also used the person as a conduit for some misleading info.

In short Bob it seems to me that you have taken the one choice that does the least harm to OSA, potentially the most harm to yourself.

I realize that taking on the CofS as you have done is going to give you lessons in paranoia and suspicion but don't fall into their way of thinking. I did and I have regretted it for years.

DeoMorto - the truly censored.

From: Roland <roland.rashleigh-berry@virgin.net>
Subject: Anti-spy methods in the UK
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:58:54 +0000
Message-ID: <785ql6$hkt$1@nclient1-gui.server.virgin.net>

I would just like to point out that here in the UK we are totally immune from Clam infiltration. We knew all this was coming and we have protected ourselves from it totally. We thought that you people in the US would have been wise to this sort of thing but -- well, you're Yanks, and all that. You lot invented this sort of religious insanity and you are, well, happy to live with it and expect the same to be visited on the rest of the world.

I am in the front line to stop Clam infiltration. I was deliberately chosen because I am incorruptible. Everybody in the UK knows that.

Thanks to my vigilence we have a thriving FZ org right here in the middle of London quite close to the existing decrepid public org that the Co$ has on Tottenham Court Road. It's about 400 yards away.

(please excuse my claim that it was 200 yards away - I don't drive a car and was, well, a bit inacurate).

Anyway. Although I know every goings on with the UK FZ org and I am in constant contact with all critics all around the world and nothing happens against Scientology on this planet that I don't know about then you musn't assume that I might be some sort of weak link in this.

My lips are sealed.

And that goes for most anti-Scientology sources in Europe.

You clams using some common tart -- some really tasty bird with big tits an' all wiv blond hair an' all that isn't going to get anywheres wiv me !!

So where the fuck is she?

Cunts!!

Roland

From: kspaink@xenu.org (Karin Spaink)
Subject: FactNet, OSA ops and more
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 04:42:17 GMT
Message-ID: <36acafa1.381307388@news.xs4all.nl>

By now, I have read all the threads connected to FactNet vs Laura Whatever, and both Jesse's and Bob's explanations of why they are sure that Laura was working for Scientology.

First of all, I think Scientology is fully capable of running ops on critics and especially on organizations of critics. And these ops can be awful. Not only are you being spied upon, you're being spied upon by people you _trust_.

Secondly, knowing that you might be the target of any such op, and living under the duress that such knowledge will bring about, it is at times very difficult to assess what exactly is going on. Besides, paranoia is _healthy_ under such circumstances: it might be the only thing that saves you.

Thirdly, it is always very difficult, and under circumstances like these, rather important and therefore all the more distressing -- precisely because you are not free to discuss everything, while that is the _one_ thing that helps to clear [oops] your mind --, to figure out who you can trust and who you should rather keep at an arm's length (or further away).

Both Zenon and I have a collection of instances where we distrusted people or were not sure whether we could trust them: sometimes the distrust or the nagging feeling turned out to be founded, sometimes they were unfounded. We think.

You never know. That's precisely the nagging bit.

[For the record: for months, it was even a standard joke between us. Which one of us was the Scientology op planted upon the other one of us? Which of us was being paid by CoS to distract the other so much? And while we joked, sometimes -- well, we simply couldn't be sure, could we? And previously, there were times when I distrusted WAA, my then-current lover. Not that he showed any signs. I was just distrusting anybody who was in a position to get precarious from me and who showed any interest in them. At one point, I decided that the only solution to this dilemma was to keep my own mouth shut. So yes, I kept a few secrets. As a matter of fact, I still have some.] Given this, there are a couple of things that yet nag me in the Laura Whatever story. And I think it's better to explain them than to keep my mouth shut.

Stacy, Jesse, Bob -- will you do me the honour of reading this carefully, and meanwhile lower your defenses just enough to keep in mind that I do consider Scientology's enemies my friends, at least untill the war is over, and that I value your respective valour and courage very much?

That I think FactNet is important and doing a good job? That _I_ am being sued by Scientology as well, and that OSA has had an op running against me and Felipe Rodriguez of XS4all?

1. My guess is that the three of you have been uncareful at times. It speaks from Jesse's account about Laura. So he fucked her. Good for him. (I think he deserved more than one series of good fucks after Scientology. In fact, he deserved an orgy.) But, judging by his account, he also spoke at large with her -- not about his past, or hers, but about his present and his immediate future. That is: about his current dealings with Scientology.

When you're about to be litigated by Scientology, or when you are going to be a major witness for the defense in a case against Scientology, you simply shouldn't. You should only speak with those you trust _deeply_. And deeply is, in circumstances as these, not defined as: friends, but defined as: those who are in the same situation as you are -- in other words, who are sued as well or who are part of a lawsuit. And perhaps you shouldn't even tell all your plans and moves to people who are involved in any lawsuit but yours.

Not only because it's at times difficult to discern who you can trust, but also because the mere fact that you are telling other people what your moves and plans are, might implicate them and put them in a situation where they will become vulnerable to outside pressure, be it legal, Scientology-wise or just due to the urge to share whatever.

2. At one point, some people in FactNet started to distrust Laura. The way to go about it in such circumstances is, imho, to test her: for instance by feeding her, and only her, false information and see if (and in that case: how and when) that information shows up or is acted upon. With any luck, you might be able to discard your doubts. That's the happy scenario. In the worst case scenario, there's bad news ahead but still a profit to be gained: this approach might enable you to trace (part of) the route this information has taken; and you would have irreproachable proof that your hunch was right.

Yes, it's awful to play this I-spy double-spy trick upon somebody you like and trust. But the alternatives are worse, and by the time you have indeed started to distrust somebody, it's too late to try and pre-empt the problem by keeping your mouth shut from then on.

3. So FactNet hired a PI to check out Laura. I think that was a smart move. He or she came up with a new address, phonebills, and roommates. Yes, I agree that this information looks bad and incriminating _once_ you started to distrust Laura and are looking for confirmation. But it isn't _very_ solid or confirming.

Other explanations are feasible, and not at all far-fetched, such as:

- OSA had started an op on _Laura_, knowing that she was close to Jesse, and believing that Jesse himself was well-guarded and therefore unaittainable. Laura was, at least for a time, Jesse's weak spot, and OSA had perhaps figured as much, and tried to get at him through her but without her knowlegde. Perhaps it is the roommate who deserves the accusation. It sounds more than reasonable: of laura was the op, would OSA allow her to share her flat with a CoS memebr? No. Far too dangerous.

- The _PI_ was running an op on you, and tried to sow discord. He can, for instance, easily have falsified Laura's telephone bills and given false information about her roommates.

- There can be a series of awful mix-ups. The roommate may have been a former Scientologist Laura took pity upon;

the OSA telephone number is an old one, by now taken by somebody else; the roommate may have made the phone calls, not Laura; etc.

4.What I dislike is that a.r.s. has seen the public accusation -- with name, position and all -- _without_ any explanation to back up the accusation. That's not how things should be done. It's bad mannered, it discredits the accuser (although he may be very right in his accusations), it is possible libelous.

You can discuss this amongst yourselves as much as you need and want, you may yell and scream at her, you may wish her to hell a thousandfold, and yes, you have every right to do so -- but if you publicly voice your accusation and name the accused, you are obliged to do more then just name-calling. You need to explain the why's, and the explanation should go with the accusation instead of follow it.

5.Also, I think that the one woman who should have been contacted before anything about this became public, is Cynthia Kisser. For various reasons: she may have been able, after having assessed the evidence you found yourself presented with, to give other, fully feasible explanations.

Also, she could have helped you to figure out a strategy to tackle Laura in case etc. But more importantly: if Laura was indeed an OSA puppet, Cynthia _needs_ to know this. It affects her own circumstances, and most of all: her and CAN's court cases.

I simply cannot figure why it has been one month since Cynthia was promised the evidence, and still hasn't seen it.

There might be a very valid reason for that, too; but in that case, I can only repeat what I said before: in that case, anything pertaining to Laura should have been kept priviliged information and posting it to a.r.s. could, and should, have waited.

6.Apart from all this, I don't think any of you owe me any evidence, irrefutable proof or explanations. You may have reasons whcih at this time I cannot or may not assess, and you have no obligation whatsoever to me. But you do have an obligation to whoever you accuse. Accusing somebody without providing at least _something_, is -- well, dangerous, bad-mannered, a seed of discord and bad PR. I'd have liked you to keep your accusation amongst yourself until you gave tonight's explanations. That would also have permitted me, and perhaps others, to look -- more objectively at them.

7.I do not think Jesse is fabricating this story, not at all. I fully believe that he's honest in tonight's relay of the Laura story and in his case, I would have worried _a lot_ as well. Then again, perhaps the only thing Laura can be actually accused of, is being uncareful and inadvrertedly having spilled information -- just like Jesse himself may have done.

8.Stacy has stated that Laura disappeared, somewhere in December, after having been confronted with this information, and that she believes that this more or less amounts to a confession. That's what I would think too, if I were to put myself in the shoes of a guilty Laura. But put yourself in the shoes of an innocent Laura: suddenly important people from an organization she likes and cherishes, including a man she has a weak spot for, start accussing her of being hired by a cult that she herself despises, and reveal that they've set a PI on her tail, and leave her no room to defend herself.

I can imagine that she may have fled you out of -- hurt, or disappointment.

And Jesse -- or Stacy, or Bob -- now that you've figured out Laura, never think that there _hasn't_ been a PI on your tail all along. What you now ascribe to Laura may very well have been her doing. It may, however, have been a PI's doing. Or yet somebody else's. Or a bad concurrences of bad coincidences.

Until you're very sure, it's usually better to keep your suspicions amongst yourself (and act accordingly) instead of publicly accusing people who you're not yet sure is the culprit. Or who is perhaps not the _only_ culprit. In the worst case, you may not only wrongly accuse somebody but you may also have robbed yourselves of the means to trace the real culprit.

(posted, and mailed to Jesse, Stacy and Bob; and I would have liked to mail it to Cynthia as well but I don't have her e-mail address) groet, Karin Spaink - I write, therefore I am:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink

From: theotherlaura_t@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Concerning Laura Terepin
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 15:55:29 GMT
Message-ID: <787ila$mt2$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>

In article <199901202208.OAA10984@spectre.ktb.net>, Flood Control <FloodControl@drac.host4u.net> wrote:

> PI investigation shows there are / were two "Laura Terepins."
> The one at CAN assumed the name "Laura Terepin" and worked for
> "Department Twenty" of the Scientology business. It is a case
> of stolen identity.

Hi folks!

What a horror to log on to a.r.s the other morning and find my maiden name attached to a post that claimed I was a whore for Co$. Yup, I am the other Laura Terepin. I am the Laura Terepin you will find if you do a PeopleFinder search on the net, but I am NOT the woman named in Bob's post! As far as I am aware, my parents in MI and my elderly aunt in NY are the only Terepins in this country. My husband did his own netsearch when we began getting nutty calls at at home, and it became apparent that this woman has been using this name for quite a while, but I doubt that I have an unknown relative with the same name as me. If this is her real name, where is her family?

The only Terepins that seem to exist are MY family--I don't find any others.

This woman obviously exists, and people have met her personally.

I have no knowledge about who she is or whether she is really a spy for the org or not. All I know is that this is my maiden name, and me and mine have been catching the grief that should be focused on her. I feel VERY violated over this situation, and formally request that those "outing" her understand that you are harming innocent people in the process.

It could be a total fluke that this person is wearing my maiden name. However, I have a reason to wonder: I lost a very dear friend to the cult back in the 80s. Her ex-husband (she divorced him to marry another scieno) has told me that she is quite high in the Chicago org these days. She knew me as that name (I've always hated it and had it legally changed). Also, when she got involved with Co$, she tried to get me to join too.

I received two or three calls from the Chicago org before they gave up on me, so I know that that name is in a file drawer or database at the Chicago org. I simply feel it is too much a coincidence that this woman is wearing my name...perhaps she got it from my ex-friend, or perhaps this woman IS my ex-friend!

I've been trying to find the picture Bob said he posted on the binaries group, but I have yet to locate it. I'm VERY curious whether he pulled a picture of me off my website, whether the picture is of my ex-friend, or what the deal is.

If anyone has a copy of what he posted, I'd sure appreciate it if someone would email it to me.

My last request is this: *PLEASE* do not make the mistake of thinking that the Laura Terepin you will find on any People Finder on the net is the woman named in Bob's post. It is not--it's ME. Whomever this woman is, she's NOT me! PLEASE do not phone me or my family. We didn't receive any bogus calls yesterday, so I am very hopeful that this will all blow over....

I've seen recent post that claims this woman will post a message of her own soon. I sure hope she does! I'm *very* curious to hear from the person who is either my long-lost cousin or the person who apparently stole my name.

the other laura terepin

From: Xapped <ronsmuerto@hotmail.com>
Subject: FACTNET heroes defeat terroristic cult
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 15:57:44 -0500
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990121155139.117B-100000@darkstar.zippy>

A Scientology agent was suspected. A Scientology agent was investigated.

A Scientology agent was caught. This is the first time this has happened in this manner, so far as I know, in history. This was not due to an anonymous tip. Nobody stumbled over this one by accident. It was a deliberate, intentional, stunning defeat of the cult of Scientology.

I almost missed it because I was fumbling with the spam.

The first thing that came to my attention was the anti-FACTNET drones.

When the anti-Minton drones arrived, I knew something was up. Sure enough, amidst a real, live barrage of credibility killers and personality annihilators, came Bob Minton, himself. I was puzzled as to why he used the word "whore" in referring to the covert OSA agent. However, Jesse Prince's post quickly cleared up that mystery.

Congratulations, Bob, Jesse, Stacey and whoever else took any part in this counter-espionage operation. You are real-life heroes.

For the people who are confused as to why a "church" would be engaged in a covert operation to begin with, the "church" of Scientology is a militant, terroristic organization which uses the word "church" and live, innocent civilians as shield in covering up its real activities, which center around deception, subversion and control.

Joe C.

My response to the Scientology attack on Germany is contained in the documentation on Scientology in German-speaking countries at website:

http://cisar.org

From: Zenon Panoussis <oracle@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Outing people (Laura Terepin)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 06:21:02 -0100
Message-ID: <36A9785E.D9ACBF85@xs4all.nl>

In all this storm of accusations and flames that has circled around the EVIDENCE, I forgot completely that I, two years ago, did exactly what Minton did this week, except worse. The reactions were dramatically different.

It was less than a month after I had been raided and the same day that the NOTs were stolen from the Swedish parliament, that my neighbour informed me that some characters had spent more than a day in a car parked at the corner of my street. I got the registration number and through it the name and other data of the owner. I **assumed** scientology was running routine surveillance on me. I posted about it in http://www.dtek.chalmers.se/~d1dd/cos/pan21.html .

A few days later I put up a webpage with the pictures, names, addresses, social security numbers and phone numbers of the owners of the (by then) two cars involved.

For your reference I just uploaded a copy of that page to http://www.xs4all.nl/~oracle/we_all_love_xenu/goons.htm .

I also announced the page in ars in http://www.dtek.chalmers.se/~d1dd/cos/pan24.html and had loads of hits to it. I mentioned it to the media and it was widly published. One car was smashed within the day by somebody armed with a heavy object. Nobody spent time parked on my street after that (well, it's almost true; there was guy in a rented car sometime later parked for a while *two* blocks away and he disappeared after I phoned the rental company).

Now, stop and think. What evidence did I have that these people had anything at all to do with me or with the CoS?

NONE. None at all, zip, nada, niente, zero. I didn't even bother asking them before I outed them and called them scum in public. I did it on pure assumption, "2+2=4 and I am no fucking court of law - I need no evidence". And a car got smashed.

I was generally applauded for this. And yes, as a result of the webpage, one of the two guys on it was identified as a scieno. He was the one with the smashed car and the 2+2=4 equation was proven. But only *after* the fact.

Theoretically the two cars could have been completely unrelated to each other and to me. From this point of view I certainly wronged them. On the other hand, had I waited for the evidence, I would probably still have them parked outside my house. Taking a risk at somebody else's expense was a necessary part of the war, just as it was for instance (they say) for the allied to bomb Dresden flat during WW2. That is a *very* cynical and cruel attitude but it is very common at war. I was applauded.

Let's look at the Minton and Prince postings. Minton posted her name and picture. I put names and pictures on the web - that's worse. Minton called her a whore.

I just called them goons - I was slightly nicer but, after all, it was the web. Prince posted her phone numbers and *his* sex life with her. I webbed their phone numbers, social security numbers, home addresses, car registrations and some derrogatory comments about their looks. I didn't have more on them, or I would have webbed that too. In comparison with Minton and Prince I did worse. I was not flamed - I was applauded.

So, what am I saying? I did it, so they should also do it?

The fact that you (those of you that were around then) applauded me means that you must applaud Minton and Prince?

No. I am simply stating that the climate has changed in ars in the past two years and that the group has become much more polarized. I think it is because of its enormous success.

Success tends to get to your head.

I am personally not convinced that Laura was an OSA plant, although - and I do want this to be absolutely clear - I do not for a moment think that anyone of the FACTNet people is lying and yet less that *all* of them are lying in tune.

I think that chances are VERY high that they are right, but I make a reservation for the fact that life sometimes plays very weird games on people. I simply take the issue as one of a certain uncertainty and ask: what the fuck do you do?

If you are convinced that Laura is a spy, you don't only need to get rid of her at once, but you also need to make a very clear point about it. Furthermore, in this process you end up being very agitated. Your judgement can get impaired, especially when "you" is not one person, but three or four or five, and all have some opinions of their own. Your self-preservation instinct says "kill". Your sense of justice says "kill". Your warrior guts say "kill".

And you know that half of your allies say "kill". Well, you might go for the kill and make that posting.

Assume now that you were wrong. You certainly have some responsibility, but are you not also entitled to a great deal of leniency because what you did was based on your best judgement and because, given your (wrong) premises, the result of not doing it would have been catastrophic for you *and* a great deal of things that are in the public interest? Aren't you entitled to leniency simply because you did your best, even if you had started out wrong? Over here we give murderers 7 to 20 years. People that kill somebody in a car accident while speeding get 100-300 hours community service. The difference is the lack of bad intention; the results are exactly the same.

Is there any reason why these standards should not apply to CoS critics?

I think that the good faith is apparent in this case.

Minton's posting is hot-headed and arrogant, as usual, but that's his style. However, it screams of honesty:

you can see that he REALLY believes in what he's writing and he is even triumphant about it. On the face of it you can accuse him of anything, but not of bad faith. Prince's posting is more inwards - and he was flamed aplenty for being egocentric. He gives his account and he sounds perfectly honest, although you might question whether he really did sit down to think about other possible views on his subject. On the face of it you accuse him of anything, but not of bad faith. My question is then, assuming the worst case scenario that they are both dead wrong about Laura: is ars not going to give them the same benefit that it would give any day to a speeding driver?

Yet worse, we still don't know for sure if Laura was a plant or not, but half of ars has yet already condemned Minton and Prince for the "murder" that should have been seen as an accident in the first place. Damn, if she really was a plant, they are not guilty of anything, neither of the murder nor of the accident.

And there is yet another aspect that NOBODY has bothered about so far. The Russian proverb "if you sleep with the dogs you have to stand the fleas" applies in unexpected ways and it applies to Laura too. She associated herself with FACTNet knowing that FACTNet is under an enormous pressure. Knowing that front-line scientology critics tend to (and should by all means) be paranoid. Knowing that OSA was bound to try to plant someone. Knowing that FACTNet was bound to suspect everyone and could end up acting irrationally. To stick to the previous metaphore, Laura walked out on the motorway. I am certainly not saying that she herself is to blame in case she is innocent, but I *am* saying that she should have been, and hopefully was, prepared for the risk that she would be hit with an accusation while completely innocent and loyal. If you know this beforehand, the wronging hurts less. If you hadn't thought of it - well, you should have.

I would like to second the few voices of real scepticism that have been raised, join Andreas' team, and plea to the group to lower the temperature considerably. See it this way: if we kill each other today it will be extemely boring to have no-one to flame tomorrow, but if we wait a while and see things sorted out we might have so much better reasons for the flaming. So much more flaming! We might not owe that to Minton or Prince or to whoever is flaming us personally at this moment, but I do think we owe it to reason itself and to the CoS. Especially to the CoS. If we break the newsgroup *they* will be the ones to profit most, and they don't deserve that.

BTW, if any bastard dares flame me for this posting I promise to kick his ass all the way from here to hell :) Z -- oracle@everywhere: The ephemeral source of the eternal truth...

From: Roland <roland.rashleigh-berry@virgin.net>
Subject: Hang 'em high
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 08:42:14 +0000
Message-ID: <78c22n$qda$1@nclient1-gui.server.virgin.net>

I am pleased that Jesse and Bob finally got round to recognising they had a clam spy in their midst. What I can't understand is why it took them so long. Their every moves were known. As soon as they were flying out, they would be picketed at the airport. When they were flying in, the same. When Bob was alone with Stacy, the clams were there again. It was obvious that they had inside information.

And with the way Bob and Jesse were moving around the country then they couldn't have been followed. It had to be someone IN the organisation who they told all their plans to. More than that, it had to be someone who was checking up on their movements all the time.

I guess the English are better at spotting this sort of thing.

Nearly every Kraut spy in the UK in WWII worked for us after being made an offer they couldn't refuse. Mind you, they were dead give- aways. Knocking on the doors of pubs at 7:00 in the morning and demanding a cup of black coffee which they would drink standing up in their leather coats and making observations such as "I say, vee English chaps don't stand much chance against the glorious German army". Sounds like this fake Laura Terepin was even more obvious.

I think if she had a Scientology "S" and double triangle tatooed on her forehead then it would have taken Bob and Jesse just as long to become suspicious.

You need a Brit to work with you to spot these plants.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA !!

Roland

From: Dave Bird <dave@xemu.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Mock-Terrapin Soup
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 13:27:44 +0000
Message-ID: <TrmmPsAQ5cq2EwRl@xemu.demon.co.uk>

In article <hkhensonF5zt9n.L02@netcom.com>, Keith Henson <hkhenson@netcom.com> writes >: Whether Bob's Laura Terepin is or is not the real deal, >: I don't know yet. I haven't seen enough evidence to >: say for sure, but it sure looks bad. This "fake" Laura, >: from what I understand, claims to have attended >: Northwestern Law School for awhile, but records turn >: up no Terepins enrolled as students within at least the >: last 7 years (that's how far back my university >: directories go, at the moment). She is also, supposedly, >: using a social security number that is only one number >: off from the "real" Laura Terepin.

>

>Oh my!

> Both of those things, >: shoud they prove to be true, are pretty damning evidence >: that the "fake" Laura is an OSA op.

>

>Or something even stranger than an OSA op.

To my mind her spoofing the unusual real name AND SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER of a real person clearly shows that the whore, the Mock Terrapin, is engaged in some underhand or possibly criminal activity.

This is clearly one major piece of evidence towards proving she is what Bob claims she is; for circumstances (and Occam's razor) would strongly suggest that activity is an OSA operation against Bob and Jesse. But they, unlike Tom Klemesrud, are very well placed with money and resources to fight back and expose the Op.

From: Keith Henson <hkhenson@netcom.com>
Subject: CAN's Laura Terepin now tangled in Berry vs Barton
Message-ID: <hkhensonF617Gr.Mzr@netcom.com>

I got this from Graham Berry this morning.

According to Graham, the LT from CAN gave a number of documents from CAN to him through one of his assistants. Graham produced the documents under discovery in Berry vs Barton, but when asked in deposition a few days ago, he did not know where they came from. Moxon and Co decided to depose the assistant on this and other matters, so rather than have this information come out a few weeks from now, the assistant told Graham of the documents origin and Graham told Moxon in deposition of their origin yesterday (Fri.)

It will be of great interest to see if Moxon and Co issue a subpoena to depose CAN's LT. If they do, you can write off CAN's LT being a plant, because even CoS (with their habit of footbullets) would not subject one of their own agents to being questioned under oath.

The converse would not have as much significance.

On the subject of CAN, if anyone has details of Glenn Barton's involvement in the destruction of CAN, particularly his involvement with New CAN (CAN reform group?) Schait, or Russell Shaw please forward them directly to Grahameb@aol.com.

In deposition, Graham mentioned that he had evidence of criminal conduct by the Paul Hasting (Rosen's) law firm. The clams insisted he produce it, though it was not directly related to the case. They eventually took Graham before the Judge, insisting that he give up the data even before Graham had a chance to provide it to the US Attorney. The Judge (who caught on to what was going on :-) ) ordered Graham to say what it was, so he told them he had an affidavit to the effect that PH was paying $300 a document to the court clerks who back date the filing so they would appear to be filed in a timely manor. If I can get a copy of this now public document, I will scan it in and post.

There is lots more going on (for example a 1740.10 motion) but this is all I can reconstruct from my sketchy notes.

Graham's saga is more interesting than anything else at the moment.

Keith Henson

From: referen@bway.net (Diane Richardson)
Subject: The Truth About Jesse Prince
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 05:43:28 GMT
Message-ID: <36ac02e9.10600555@enews.newsguy.com>

Although there's obviously still a lot to learn about the claims made against a certain woman by Robert S. Minton, Jesse Prince, and Stacy Brooks, one piece of information seems to be approaching the verifiable stage.

Two independent sources have confirmed that Graham Berry's assistant Jane told them on different occasions that Jesse Prince was coming on to Laura, rather than the other way around.

According to these sources, it was Jesse who was pursuing Laura, who was not interested in his advances.

Is it possible that Factnet's accusations are based on the false statements of a "gentleman scorned"? Perhaps we'll learn more in the future.

Diane Richardson referen@bway.net

From: bob@minton.org (Robert S. Minton)
Subject: FACTNet responds to Kisser statement Re: Terepin
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:14:41 GMT
Message-ID: <36b29b25.21772395@news.tiac.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1 Cynthia Kisser's statement today, channeled to ARS by Jeff Jacobsen, omits her other affirmation to Dan Leipold that "she can believe Laura Terepin is not who she says she is." Also, Kisser has the mistaken impression that FACTNet has posession of phone records.

That is not and has never been the case.

While the information from phone records was pivotal to our final conclusion, they were by no means the only damning evidence concerning the covert activities on behalf of Scientology by the person who claimed to be Laura Terepin. We are completely satisfied with the investigation done at the behest of our attorney by private investigators. We have no further interest in investigating any mater related to the CAN/FACTNet Laura Terepin.

We reiterate that the results of the investigation done for our attorney are not available to any outside parties. However, we are aware that others areconducting their own independent investigations, and we encourage such additional enquiries as we are confident the damning evidence is available to anyone in need of it. Our investigation has long since been concluded and we have no intention of inquiring further into this matter. Nor do we have any further comment on the matter.

Bob has spoken in the last few days with the confirmed Laura (nee) Terepin and her husband and has apologized for any inconvenience this matter has caused them. We regret that the confirmed Laura Terepin was drawn into this matter on the internet and again offer her our apologies concerning this matter.

Robert S. Minton and Stacy Brooks, Directors for and on behalf of FACTNet.

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