Scientology

From: ptsc Subject: Transcript: Injunction hearing Nov 1 2000 Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 15:54:47 -0500 Organization: ARS: Perhaps The Most Malignant Newsgroup on Usenet Message-ID: This has been floating around on irc but hasn't yet been posted. Forgive formatting errors. Silly spelling errors from the court reporter.

-- IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE SIXTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR PINELLAS COUNTY, FLORIDA CASE NO. 99-7430-CI-08 ----------------------------------------X :

RICHARD W. HOWD, JR. :

:

:

Plaintiff, :

:

vs. :

:

ROBERT S. MINTON, JR. :

:

:

Defendant. :

:

----------------------------------------x BEFORE: THE HONORABLE THOMAS E. PENICK PLACE: ST. PETERSBURG JUDICIAL BUILDING 545 First Avenue North St. Petersburg, Florida 33701 DATE: November 1, 2000 TIME: 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m.

REPORTED BY: DEBORAH M. WILLIAMS Court Reporter Sixth Judicial Circuit Notary Public, State of Florida ------------------------------------------------ HEARING ------------------------------------------------ Pages 1 - 150 ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES COURT REPORTERS P.O. BOX 35 CLEARWATER, FLORIDA 34617-0035 (813) 443-0992 APPEARANCES BRUCE G. HOWIE, ESQUIRE Piper, Ludin, Howie, & Werner 5720 Central Avenue St. Petersburg, Florida Attorney for Robert Minton JOHN MERRETT, ESQUIRE 2716 Herschel Street Jacksonville, Florida 32205 Attorney for Respondents F. WALLACE POPE, JR.

Johnson, Blakely, Pope Post Office Box 1368 Clearwater, Florida 33757 Attorney for Petitioner 4 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 THE COURT: Good morning, you're kind of 3 all by yourself.

4 MR. HOWIE: I'm a lonesome guy. I don't 5 have John Merrett here, and it was my 6 understanding he was supposed to be here. He 7 has several things to address, including the 8 subpoenas. With the exception of Robert Minton 9 he is to represent all the respondents. I 10 don't think we're in a good position to 11 proceed.

12 THE JUDGE: Do you have an office number 13 or cell number or something?

14 MR. HOWIE: I have an office phone 15 number for John Merrett in Jacksonville office, 16 and I believe I have a cell phone number for 17 Stacy Brooks.

18 MR. CROWE: I think he has a pager 19 number. I don't know if you want to wait or 20 not.

21 THE COURT: Let me do this, let me hear 22 from Mr. Pope.

23 MR. POPE: Well, Your Honor, I don't 24 mind the reasonable accomodation to try to find 25 my opposing counsel.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 5 1 THE COURT: Magic words, reasonable.

2 MR. POPE: So we can proceed, but this 3 has been noticed a long time, we only have two 4 hours.

5 THE COURT: I know. I know.

6 MR. CROWE: I have an amended Motion to 7 Quash, if I can file that.

8 THE COURT: Here comes somebody, the 9 elevator opened. Here comes a rush of humans.

10 Thank you, sir.

11 MR. CROWE: On behalf of the State 12 Attorney's Office -- 13 THE JUDGE: Tell you what I'll do, while 14 they get him here and get him settled and 15 everything else, I'll step off for a few 16 minutes. So, I can stop this and take a five 17 minute break or something so everybody can yet 18 ready to go, magic words, reasonable.

19 THE COURT: Let the record reflect I'm 20 stamping in the amended motion of non-metorious 21 subpoena, subpoena duces tecum and for a 22 protective order, and that has been filed.

23 MR. CROWE: We would have filed the 24 original, filed an original with the clerk, but 25 we knew it wouldn't make it down to the Court, ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 6 1 so that is -- 2 THE COURT: That is fine. All right.

3 Now, are we ready to proceed?

4 MR. POPE: Petitioner is ready to 5 proceed, Your Honor.

6 THE COURT: Defense ready?

7 MR. HOWIE: We're ready, Your Honor.

8 MR. MERRETT: We're ready, but we don't 9 know what we're doing based on the notices we 10 received.

11 THE COURT: Well -- 12 MR. POPE: I guess it will just unfold, 13 Your Honor. This is the first objection that I 14 had to the insufficiency of the notice. We 15 called up a prayer for temporary injunctive 16 relief, so I'm ready to proceed, Your Honor.

17 THE COURT: Let's proceed.

18 MR. MERRETT: I would invoke the rule of 19 sequestration.

20 THE COURT: Let the record reflect the 21 rule has been invoked. Attorneys, if you both 22 would tell your perspective witnesses, other 23 than parties, what the rule is all about. If 24 you want me to call everybody up here and swear 25 them all in at once and do it, I'll be glad to ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 7 1 do it.

2 MR. CROWE: Your Honor, since -- 3 THE COURT: All witnesses -- yes, sir, 4 I'm sorry.

5 MR. CROWE: We're, I guess we're 6 subpoenaed as a witness, but we also have a 7 Motion to Quash I ask the Court -- 8 THE COURT: Let's hear that first, that 9 way -- wait a minute. Let me do this. Wait a 10 minute. I don't know what is going to be said 11 in the motion to quash; and in order to be 12 overly protective, anybody that is going to be 13 a witness, other than the State, who would be 14 arguing on the motion for protection, would you 15 all wait outside and I'll call you back in, 16 swear you in, or do something. But let's get 17 them outside first.

18 MR. MERRETT: Your Honor, Mr. Moxon is 19 also a potential witness.

20 THE COURT: Good. Thank you. That is 21 fine.

22 MR. MERRETT: He would need to excuse 23 him then.

24 THE COURT: We'll see what happens.

25 Anybody go ahead, name all your perspective ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 8 1 witnesses, somebody you might be calling and 2 let's see what we can do.

3 Okay, now. State, let me hear from you.

4 MR. CROWE: I filed a motion for 5 protective order. We were subpoenaed by 6 Mr. Merrett to bring any copies of the 7 video/audio relating to this incident involving 8 Mr. Minton. We had difficulty locating the 9 files because his name is misspelled in the 10 police report and it wasn't in there. We 11 all -- all we have is the work copy. We have 12 no original evidence.

13 As the Court knows the State never keeps 14 original copy, that is in possession of the law 15 enforcement, and there is no way we can 16 authenticate it even, if we had the copy, what 17 is in possession of the police, or muchless 18 what is in possession of the party.

19 Specifically it really serves no useful purpose 20 and intrudes into our investigative process.

21 And I cited a substantial body of law in the 22 motion to indicate that while I'm saying that 23 there are circumstances in which the State 24 Attorney should be subpoenaed to talk about the 25 investigative process, it is certainly an ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 9 1 extraordinary thing and a last resort remedy.

2 Since we have no possession there is no 3 reason that I know of, since this is an active 4 criminal investigation we have not made a 5 filing decision yet. We think it is 6 inappropriate. We think it is completely 7 unnecessary, and as, and this has been argued 8 several times, not in this particular 9 proceeding, but in the civil case, arising out 10 of Ms. McPhearson's death. We feel the 11 subpoena should be quashed.

12 I attempted, our office I should say, 13 our office attempted, Ms. King, who normally 14 would argue this, can't be here because of her 15 mother's on-going medical procedure, and she 16 was unable to attend, called Mr. Merrett's 17 twice, I called twice. I paged him yesterday 18 and was unable to have any communication with 19 him prior to the hearing this morning.

20 So we had to go ahead and file the 21 motion. We're also subpoenaed for, in a civil 22 suit later on. I'm not -- that is -- we'll 23 have to deal with that another time. But, 24 there is no apparent purpose in subpoenaing us.

25 We have no original evidence. We cannot ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 10 1 authenticate anything other than the work copy 2 in our investigative process, and to attend a 3 lengthy hearing for no purpose. It serves no 4 useful purpose, and it is a waste of our time, 5 and I think a waste of the Court's time.

6 THE COURT: Okay. All right. Let me 7 hear what the other side has to say.

8 MR. MERRETT: Your Honor, the allegation 9 that this intrudes in any way into the 10 investigative process is cut from hole clothe, 11 and whether he has been subpoenaed to give 12 testimony with respect to the known impression 13 is the mental impression of the office of the 14 State Attorney. This matter is not regulated 15 under Chapter 119. This is a straight forward 16 subpoena to an entity requesting the production 17 of material of evidentiary value in its 18 possession.

19 The tapes of which copies have been 20 furnished to me are edited tapes. Presumably 21 the Scientology Incorporate did not have the 22 temerity to forward edited tapes to the State 23 Attorney's office for the investigation.

24 Consequently given the short nature of the 25 notice here, on the assumption that they have a ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 11 1 valid unedited copy of the tapes, they were 2 subpoenaed to produce it, not to authenticate 3 it, not to testify about what happened, not to 4 tell us who, if anybody, they're going to 5 charge, nothing like that. But to bring the 6 tapes here, since edited tapes are, apparently, 7 going to be offered by one of the litigants.

8 MR. CROWE: Apparently Mr. Merrett 9 wasn't listening. We don't have any original 10 evidence. The Church did not provide any 11 evidence to us that I'm aware of. Whatever 12 evidence existed has been in possession of, I 13 believe of the Sheriff's office in their 14 evidence unit as always occurs, and we would 15 request a work copy of it.

16 I don't if we even have an accurate and 17 complete copy of what the police officers have, 18 and in fact from my view of the tapes it seems 19 to be less extensive than as reflected in the 20 report.

21 THE COURT: Well, let me interject 22 myself into this just a second. If we're going 23 back to the original incident, that night, 24 Minton and Howd -- 25 MR. POPE: We're not.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 12 1 MR. CROWE: Your Honor, this is 2 September 2000.

3 THE COURT: This is something else, oh, 4 okay. Because I was going to say, I think in 5 the court file there is a whole bunch of tapes 6 and they were all of different frequencies and 7 things like that and I finally said get the 8 original, or get that all squared out and all, 9 but that is a different incident. So, okay I 10 see what you're talking about.

11 MR. CROWE: And if whatever copies were 12 provided by the Church or any other entity of 13 law enforcement would be in possession of 14 either Clearwater Police Department or the 15 Sheriff's Office, who I believe normally 16 handles their evidence.

17 We only have a work copy made, and from 18 and viewing that I don't believe it is 19 complete.

20 But, in any event, I had -- had 21 Mr. Merrett bothered to contact our office 22 before issuing the subpoena I could have 23 explained that and perhaps he could have gotten 24 the subpoena directed to the correct people to 25 get whatever he wants.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 13 1 THE COURT: Okay. Anything else either 2 side wants to say at this time? Well, I'm 3 going to grant the protective order. And, 4 State, give me an order to sign.

5 MR. CROWE: Okay.

6 THE COURT: Thank you, very much.

7 MR. CROWE: May I leave?

8 THE COURT: And assume, basically, you 9 know -- well, that is all I'm going to say.

10 Granted.

11 MR. CROWE: But, can I leave the 12 proceedings then, Your Honor?

13 THE COURT: Goodbye.

14 MR. CROWE: Okay. Thank you.

15 THE COURT: All right. That having been 16 said and done; are you all comfortable with 17 your witnesses out there, you want to bring 18 them in and have me swear them in and then 19 explain what the rule is?

20 MR. POPE: Why don't we have a mass -- 21 THE COURT: Let me do that. Bring them 22 in here and I'll take care of it. Nobody is 23 going to be calling Mr. Fugate?

24 MR. MERRETT: I don't think so.

25 THE COURT: Okay.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 14 1 MR. FUGATE: You just want to get rid of 2 me.

3 THE COURT: Form a straight line across;

4 is that everybody? Hold on. The others coming 5 in?

6 Folks, come forward. Form a straight 7 line across, if you would, please. Wally, is 8 he a party.

9 MR. POPE: I think Mr. Merrett just 10 announced that he is a potential witness. Are 11 you -- is Mr. Merrett intending to call this 12 man as a witnesses? I think it is improper to 13 just kick him out of the courtroom on the 14 representation that he might be a witness. If 15 he is going to call him he can be excluded. If 16 he is not, he ought not to.

17 MR. MERRETT: Was that a motion or 18 objection or anything directed particularly, 19 Your Honor?

20 THE COURT: As you notice the Court is 21 staying quite.

22 MR. MERRETT: Well, I couldn't see you, 23 Judge.

24 THE COURT: Well, now that you can see 25 me, what conclusion do you come to?

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 15 1 MR. MERRETT: Your Honor, Mr. Moxon is 2 the individual who is responsible for 3 orchestrating much of the activity that is 4 represented on some of the videotape. He 5 appears on the videotape.

6 THE COURT: So, it sound likes you're 7 going to be calling him?

8 MR. MERRETT: I don't know yet.

9 THE COURT: Well let's do this, 10 everybody raise your right hand, that includes 11 you.

12 (THEREUPON ALL POTENTIAL WITNESSES WERE SWORN ON OATH.)

13 THE COURT: Okay. Put your hands down.

14 All right, now, here's -- the rule of 15 sequestration basically says that you wait 16 outside until you're called, and when you're 17 waiting outside I request, one, you do not 18 discuss this case amongst yourselves or any 19 testimony that you're about to give or have 20 given, or don't ask the other person, well what 21 did they ask you in there, and all that sort of 22 stuff. Lay off that. And I don't care, you 23 can talk about anything else you want to talk 24 about, that is fine, but not this stuff.

25 And Folks, please, hear me out. If I ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 16 1 find out that you did discuss it there is a 2 good possibility you could be held in contempt 3 of court. Any testimony you would have given 4 would have been stricken and any testimony 5 you're about to give wouldn't be received. So 6 I'm going to ask you all to wait outside.

7 We'll call you, bring you in and give you a 8 chance to answer the questions. And once after 9 that is taken care of, and they ain't going to 10 call you again, then you can come back in, 11 okay? Okay. Have some fun then, folks. Bye.

12 THE BAILIFF: Witnesses out of the 13 hearing of the court, Your Honor.

14 THE COURT: Thank you very much, 15 Mr. Bailiff. Mr. Pope, sir?

16 MR. POPE: May it please the Court.

17 Your Honor, I brought along a courtesy copy of 18 our verified and supplemental complaint.

19 THE COURT: Thank you very much. Come 20 forward.

21 MR. POPE: That is all right?

22 THE COURT: Yes, sir. Thank you.

23 MR. POPE: May it please the Court.

24 Your Honor, you know the history of this case 25 which started a year ago, basically in November ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 17 1 of 1999.

2 THE COURT: Okay.

3 MR. POPE: And we have had numerous 4 hearings before you, you have entered orders.

5 And what we did in our amended and supplemental 6 complaint was we basically recited the history 7 of the case. It is a verified complaint and we 8 are travelling on the verified allegations of 9 that complaint together with three affidavits 10 which are attached at the very end as exhibits 11 F, G, and H.

12 In addition to that we wish to offer in 13 support of those allegations certain segments 14 of videotape that were taken reflecting the 15 events that are actually alleged in our 16 verified complaint.

17 I intend to have witnesses authenticate 18 five videotapes relating to these different 19 episodes.

20 Let me say this, Your Honor, this is a, 21 this event we're complaining of today happened 22 after the dissolution of the original temporary 23 injunction last June. We are not, although I 24 incorporated those allegations of what went on 25 before for historical continuity, we're ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 18 1 complaining today about events that have taken 2 place since you dissolved the injunction of 3 about June 28. So all the events are from that 4 date forward starting in July.

5 We also have, and I'll take it up at the 6 end of the hearing, we have a motion to add 7 additional parties who, who have been 8 identified as participating in these events, 9 and those additional parties are Stacy Brooks, 10 Jeff Jacobson, Patricia Greenway, Peter 11 Alexander and Tori Bezazian.

12 I have already provided opposing counsel 13 a week ago with the tapes that I intend to 14 utilize. I have not received from them any 15 tapes that they intend to utilize. In addition 16 to the witnesses that I intend to call to 17 authenticate the tapes I intend to call Lindsey 18 Colton and Magnus Carlsson as brief live 19 witnesses.

20 I -- Rob Surrett, who represents the 21 City of Clearwater, was supposed to be here 22 today, Your Honor. He broke his foot yesterday 23 or the day before and he has authorized me to 24 represent to the Court that, that any order 25 that the Court might enter to put some distance ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 19 1 between the petitioner and the respondents 2 would promote the public welfare and safety of 3 the City of Clearwater.

4 MR. MERRETT: Your Honor, I have to 5 object to that representation with 6 consideration by the Court, either because it 7 is indirect representation and because the City 8 of Clearwater has no standing in this 9 proceeding.

10 MR. HOWIE: We join in that objection on 11 behalf of Robert Minton.

12 THE COURT: So noted.

13 MR. POPE: Your Honor, what we're 14 basically going to ask you to do is in the 15 interest of public safety and the welfare and 16 health of the area up there, essentially 17 reinstate the terms on a temporary basis of the 18 injunction pending an opportunity for the 19 respondents to file responsive pleadings and us 20 to have an appropriate final hearing on whether 21 it should continue or be converted into a 22 permanent injunction.

23 Finally, Your Honor, I remind the Court 24 that we have substituted parties. When I asked 25 you to extend the injunction the last time you ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 20 1 declined on the basis that Mr. Howd really was 2 not the proper party to assert these claims.

3 We have dismissed Mr. Howd, dropped him from 4 the case, substituted the Church of Scientology 5 Flag Service Organization, which is the owner 6 and operator of these properties that are at 7 issue here today. So having said that, Your 8 Honor, I'm ready to call my first witness on 9 the authenticating these tapes.

10 THE COURT: Just a minute. You want to 11 do an opening or anything?

12 MR. MERRETT: I do. I do have a brief 13 response.

14 MR. HOWIE: Do you want to respond 15 first?

16 MR. MERRETT: Your Honor, first instance 17 that I think most importantly, I object to 18 consideration of the verified complaint as 19 anything other than a pleading. And I object 20 to consideration of the affidavits. They are 21 obviously per say hearsay, while they do form 22 a, can form a foundation for a court to act in 23 a ex-party proceedings, they're not admissible 24 in an evidentiary proceeding and evidently that 25 is what is contemplated here.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 21 1 There are a couple of cases dealing with 2 that issue, and I can site them for the Court, 3 if you like.

4 THE COURT: Well go ahead and put your 5 record on.

6 MR. MERRETT: McMurrain vs. Fason, 7 M-C-M-U-R-R-A-I-N, vs. F-A-S-O-N, Fason. 573 8 So.2d 915, First District Court, 1990.

9 And the second case is Orkin vs. Fank, 10 F-A-N-K, 766 So.2d 318, Fourth DCA, 2000.

11 Obviously, Your Honor, hearsay is a statement, 12 an out-of-court statement offered in court to 13 prove the truth of the matter asserted in the 14 statement. A verified complaint and the 15 affidavits are obviously hearsay, no exception 16 applies. Consequently we object to their 17 consideration as evidence.

18 THE COURT: Mr. Howie?

19 MR. HOWIE: Your Honor, I join in that 20 objection. In addition, we have not had 21 sufficient time for a response to the statement 22 ordered by the Court of October 5th. As the 23 Court may recall the Court provided us with 24 twenty days in which to respond. I speak only 25 for the service on myself, but I have until ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 22 1 tomorrow to respond. Quite frankly, we may 2 have grounds for a Motion to Dismiss that I 3 have already discussed with Mr. Pope based on 4 the fact that this takes the form of both an 5 amended and supplemental pleading. That means 6 that either cannot incorporate previous 7 pleadings as part of the complaint, of course 8 alternatively it is a departure which brings us 9 back to the issue of whether we can continue on 10 in this particular case, raising wholly new 11 grounds for injunction.

12 In any event, it is our position from 13 the outset that the Court cannot grant the 14 relief requested in the addendum clause of the 15 current amended and supplemental complaint.

16 For the reason we have not even had an 17 opportunity to formally respond to it.

18 As far as the separate Motion for 19 Temporary Injunction I object on the same 20 grounds.

21 We would also wish to reserve the right 22 to present additional evidence as to the 23 temporary injunction if the Court is so 24 inclined ultimately to grant it on the grounds 25 that this particular court date was set at the ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 23 1 convenience of the petitioner, not of my 2 client, Robert Minton, who happens to be out of 3 town and is unable to appear to testify today.

4 I want -- I simply wanted the Court to 5 hear our objections from the outset and where 6 our position is and at the end of the 7 evidentiary hearing we'll be asking for a 8 continuation.

9 THE COURT: Okay. So noted. So noted.

10 MR. POPE: Your Honor?

11 THE COURT: Yeah.

12 MR. POPE: May I just respond to that.

13 The rule -- the Court knows that the rule is, 14 I'll quote it from 1.610(a)(2). No evidence 15 other than the affidavit or verified pleading 16 shall be used to support the application for a 17 temporary injunction unless the adverse party 18 appears at the hearing or received reasonable 19 notice of the hearing. They have appeared, 20 which means that we can travel on our verified 21 complaint, the affidavits, plus whatever 22 testimony we offer, and whatever evidence they 23 wish to offer.

24 So we're ready to proceed, Your Honor.

25 MR. MERRETT: Your Honor, if I may ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 24 1 respond briefly?

2 MR. POPE: Your Honor, I object. The 3 respondent was -- responding time is over.

4 THE COURT: Well, just a minute. Those 5 two cases you cited to me?

6 MR. MERRETT: Yes.

7 THE COURT: Were they dealing with the 8 rule of civil procedure 1.610 or are they just 9 in general?

10 MR. MERRETT: Yes, Your Honor. In fact, 11 the First District case, McMurrain, 12 specifically says that while they are 13 admissible and will support issuance of an 14 ex-parte injunction, they're not a verified 15 amended, or a verified complaint is not 16 sufficient to support a ruling by the Court on 17 an evidentiary hearing. And, again, it -- it's 18 factual to suggest that rule 1.610 is an 19 amendment of the evidence code. If you recall 20 the evidence code was adopted by the Supreme 21 Court and by the legislature because of the 22 articles, of Article 5, Section 2 regarding the 23 separation of powers as regard to substantive 24 procedural law, rule 1.610, if it purports to 25 come in the evidence code, because the evidence ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 25 1 code is substantive in nature, that is why the 2 legislature had to sign off on it.

3 THE COURT: Do me a favor. You have 4 copies of the cases?

5 MR. MERRETT: Yes -- not copies. I have 6 a copy.

7 THE COURT: Well now, you haven't done 8 your homework. I tell you, Mr. Fugate has 9 appeared in my court longer than Methusal, he 10 can tell you that you don't argue a case to me 11 without a copy to the Court.

12 MR. MERRETT: I don't need these 13 anymore, Your Honor.

14 THE COURT: Well now you're getting the 15 picture.

16 MR. MERRETT: May I approach?

17 THE COURT: Sure.

18 MR. POPE: Of course there is no copy 19 for us either, Your Honor.

20 THE COURT: Well, I'll tell you what 21 I'll do in that case. If you will hand it to 22 Mr. Pope, let him read it first. Then I won't 23 give him a chance to argue until I have had a 24 chance to see it.

25 MR. POPE: Both cases are being relied ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 26 1 on?

2 THE COURT: He cited two of them.

3 MR. POPE: Okay. Your Honor, while I 4 read this one I'm going to hand you the Orkin, 5 and with the observation that this has to do 6 with hearsay.

7 THE COURT: Hand it to me. Let me read 8 it. I told you not to argue it yet. I just 9 want to look at it.

10 Okay, I read these cases. The McMurrain 11 case actually deals with a writ of replevin.

12 And they're dealing with rule point, or rule 13 9.130(a)(3)(c)(ii). But also Florida Statute, 14 I believe it is 78. Let me look here. 78.068.

15 And actually they were talking about the 16 verified complaint for an ex-parte writ of 17 replevin was deficient for several reasons.

18 And basically the exhibit that was attached 19 raised a controversy with the affidavit and 20 said the Court shouldn't have issued the writ.

21 Now, coming on over here to the other 22 case, which is the Orkin Exterminating case.

23 This has to do with the temporary injunction of 24 permanent injunction, and that the permanent 25 injunction hearing Orkin stood on its verified ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 27 1 complaint alone without presenting any other 2 testimony. And, well, actually this was a 3 temporary -- excuse me. It was for the 4 issuance of a temporary injunction, but it was 5 an ex-parte. In other words, what happened was 6 there was a hearing with notice for a temporary 7 injunction, such as we have here. And Orkin 8 elected to stand on the verified complaint, 9 presented no other evidence. And the appellate 10 court said uh-uh. That won't cut it. And they 11 said, specifically, whereas here there is a 12 noticed and contested evidentiary hearing. And 13 that is what we have here. The use of a 14 verified complaint, comma, standing alone, 15 comma, does not constitute proof sufficient for 16 establishing the necessary elements of a 17 temporary injunction. And that is all they get 18 into. They don't talk about hearsay. They 19 don't talk about anything. They're just saying 20 that a verified complaint standing alone ain't 21 going to cut it.

22 Now, I'm going to wait and see what all 23 I have. If I have evidence, I have an 24 affidavit, and I have a verified complaint and 25 they bundle it all up together, under this case ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 28 1 it is allowable. But if they just stand up and 2 Mr. Pope announces I'm standing on my affidavit 3 and verified complaint, it ain't going to work.

4 Now, let's move on.

5 MR. MERRETT: Your Honor, one additional 6 point I need to make so the record is clear.

7 Number one, we are objecting on hearsay 8 grounds. These are not non-hearsay. Secondly, 9 the verified complaint contains no evidence of 10 the competence of the declarant, nor is it 11 sworn in accordance with Florida law. It 12 doesn't even state conclusurally.

13 THE COURT: It wasn't sworn according to 14 Florida law.

15 MR. MERRETT: That is correct, Your 16 Honor.

17 THE COURT: Well that can raise a 18 different issue.

19 MR. MERRETT: What it says is, that the 20 information, I'm looking at the last page of 21 the, of, or the next to the last page, being by 22 me first duly worn opposes and says that the 23 facts set forth in the forgoing amended 24 complaint are truly correct to the best of 25 his/her knowledge and belief. A purported oath ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 29 1 to the best of ones knowledge and belief is no 2 oath at all under Florida law. It is, number 3 two, not competent because it clearly cannot 4 over the competence of a witness to testify 5 about the matters that are contained in the, in 6 the affidavit. And as you know there is an 7 evidentiary rule of competence.

8 So, on that basis alone, number one, she 9 doesn't say anywhere in the complaint that she 10 is competent or that these matters are within 11 her personal knowledge. The jurat -- 12 THE COURT: Whose affidavit are you 13 talking about?

14 MR. MERRETT: Mary Story, the verified 15 amended complaint.

16 THE COURT: Oh, okay.

17 MR. MERRETT: It contains information 18 which is obviously not within her knowledge, 19 but it simply is not competent even as an 20 affidavit because of the way it is sworn and 21 because it contains no representation of 22 competence on her part. And it's -- it's 23 deeply troubling if the Court intends to 24 adjudicate a first amendment right without an 25 opportunity to cross examine the people on whom ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 30 1 the bulk of the allegations are predicated.

2 THE COURT: Mr. Pope.

3 MR. POPE: Your Honor, this is -- the 4 plaintiff is a corporation. The person who 5 verified the complaint is the vice president of 6 the corporation. The verified complaint is 7 only one piece of evidence we have. We have 8 three affidavits attached to this, and I have 9 other witnesses to travel on.

10 THE COURT: All right. Look, as to the 11 verified complaint, I'll wait to see about 12 that. As to the other I look quickly at the 13 other affidavits or the affidavits of Greg 14 Colton, Lindsey Colton, and Steve Belabania 15 (phonetic), I don't know, anyway, they all say 16 I have personal knowledge of the facts set 17 forth below and I have looked and it and they 18 appear to be duly proper affidavits. But I'm 19 not going to rule on any of that yet. I mean, 20 nobody said anything. I don't know where they 21 stand in the evidence chain yet. Let's see 22 what happens. Proceed.

23 MR. POPE: Your Honor, this is probably 24 a good time as any to provide you with this.

25 This was just brought to my attention. I'll ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 31 1 give counsel copies of it. To the extent that 2 Mr. Merrett is defending on behalf of Lisa 3 McPhearson Trust, that corporation was 4 dissolved as of September 22, 2000. So I think 5 the defense -- 6 THE COURT: Are you filing this with the 7 Court?

8 MR. POPE: I'm offering that.

9 THE COURT: You want it marked as 10 evidence or what?

11 MR. POPE: Marked as evidence. It is 12 certified copy, Your Honor. Mr. Merrett is 13 representing other people in this matter, 14 individuals, but as to the corporation it's 15 been dissolved.

16 MR. MERRETT: I'm sure Mr. Pope will now 17 quote the Florida Statutes, or maybe he won't, 18 because the Statute actually says dissolved 19 corporations are at liberty to prosecute or 20 defend any lawsuit. So I'm not sure what this 21 exercise is about.

22 THE COURT: Okay. It's -- it is here.

23 MR. POPE: I'm ready to proceed, Your 24 Honor.

25 THE COURT: Proceed.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 32 1 MR. MERRETT: I suppose, again, I'm kind 2 of waiting to see what this is for.

3 THE COURT: Well, Mr. Pope, let me ask 4 you something. You called my attention that as 5 of September 22 the year 2000 the Lisa 6 McPhearson Trust Inc. was administratively 7 dissolved for failure to file the annual report 8 by uniform deputy report as required by law.

9 This came from Katherine Harris, Secretary of 10 State, State of Florida.

11 MR. POPE: Let me just save you some 12 trouble, Your Honor. This is brought to my 13 attention, we just learned about this today, so 14 I learned about this today. So I just want to 15 put it on the record and the consequences of it 16 we can argue later.

17 THE COURT: But you're not saying that 18 he can't defend -- 19 MR. POPE: I think we can just go 20 forward with the case and he should put on his 21 evidence and his arguments. He has individual 22 defendants that presumably have some of the 23 same defenses. So we'll figure out at the end 24 what it means.

25 MR. HOWIE: Your Honor, in that case we ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 33 1 object on the grounds of relevance.

2 THE COURT: Let's see. Right now it is 3 just here. Because we're going to move on.

4 Move on. Proceed, please.

5 MR. POPE: Your Honor, I would like to 6 call Antonio Avila as a witness.

7 THE COURT: Okay. And he has been 8 sworn.

9 THE BAILIFF: Watch the wires there and 10 have a seat.

11 THE COURT: Proceed.

12 BY MR. POPE:

13 Q Please speak up. Would you tell us your name, 14 sir?

15 A Antonio Avila.

16 Q Your address?

17 A 503 Cleveland Street, Clearwater, Florida.

18 Q And your occupation?

19 A I'm a security guard.

20 Q For whom?

21 A For the church.

22 Q Which church?

23 A The Church of Scientology, Flag Service 24 Organization.

25 Q And how long have you had that position?

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 34 1 A For about four years.

2 Q Were you present on September the 16, 2000 in 3 front of the Ft. Harrison Hotel?

4 A Yes.

5 THE COURT: What was that date?

6 MR. POPE: September the 16th.

7 THE COURT: Proceed.

8 BY MR. POPE:

9 Q Were there -- at that time on September the 10 16th were any kind of preparations underway with 11 respect to adverse weather conditions?

12 A Yes, there was. Hurricane weather conditions.

13 Q What was happening?

14 A The Ft. Harrison Hotel was being boarded up and 15 there was crew repairing everything for the coming 16 hurricane.

17 Q And which hurricane was that?

18 A It was Gordon.

19 Q Pardon, Gordon?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Did you videotape an altercation between Robert 22 Minton and of Neal O'Riely on that date?

23 A Yes, sir.

24 Q I'm going to show you two videotapes. One is, 25 I marked Number one, it says Ft. Harrison, September ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 35 1 16, 2000. The other one says, Number 2, Ft. Harrison 2 September 16, 2000, slow motion. Ask you to take a 3 look at these.

4 THE COURT: Now, let -- Mr. Pope, let me 5 ask you something. These videotapes that you 6 have given to him to look at; are you going to 7 be submitting these?

8 MR. POPE: I'm going to authenticate 9 them, Your Honor, and get them into evidence 10 and then play them.

11 THE COURT: Okay. Let me forestall any 12 problems. I don't want to go through the, all 13 the problems I had the last time with the 14 videotape that was submitted by the church not 15 being on a common frequency, or something else, 16 and the press not being able to view it and me 17 being in trouble, my office inundated by every 18 news media in the United States, literally, 19 wanting a corrected copy and everything else, 20 now -- 21 MR. POPE: This works -- 22 THE COURT: Before we get down the road, 23 let's make sure that anybody that wants to pick 24 this up and plug it into a VCR and it is going 25 to work.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 36 1 MR. POPE: It works on mine at the 2 office. Your Honor, I believe, it is a 3 standard VCR. We'll find out if we plug it in 4 here.

5 THE COURT: Please, because I just want 6 to forestall that. That took up too much of my 7 time, my office's time.

8 MR. POPE: I think we're past that, Your 9 Honor.

10 THE COURT: Let's hope so.

11 BY MR. POPE:

12 Q Mr. Avila, are these two tapes that are before 13 you fair and accurate representations of the 14 altercation you witnessed on September 16, 2000?

15 A Yes, they are.

16 MR. POPE: Your Honor, I offer these two 17 tapes into evidence.

18 MR. MERRETT: I ask for voir dire, Your 19 Honor.

20 THE COURT: You can have it. Let's -- 21 let the record reflect the Court granted a 22 special voir dire.

23 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION 24 BY MR. MERRETT:

25 Q Sir, did you review the contents of the ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 37 1 videotape that you have in your hand, sir?

2 A Yes, I did.

3 Q Now, the one that is not slow motion, the one 4 that is just marked September 16, 2000, that opens 5 with a shot of Robert Minton walking north on Ft.

6 Harrison Avenue on the sidewalk in front of Ft.

7 Harrison, correct?

8 A Yes.

9 Q And there is a time signature on that tape as 10 it rolls; correct?

11 A That's correct.

12 Q And you follow him -- where were you standing?

13 A I was cross from the Ft. Harrison Hotel, just 14 on the northeast corner of the street.

15 Q And the -- the time signature on that tape runs 16 up to some time and 42 seconds; right?

17 A Right.

18 Q And then there is a twenty second jump and the 19 tape resumes again; correct?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Did you edit the tape?

22 A No, I just -- that is just what I filmed.

23 Q So you, your testimony under oath is that you 24 stopped filming at no particular point and then picked 25 up again twenty seconds later?

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 38 1 A That's correct.

2 Q Why did you stop filming?

3 A I had received a call on my radio, and 4 therefore I stopped filming. There was nothing 5 happening at the time.

6 Q What was the call on the radio?

7 A There was another fellow security guard, he 8 wanted to know my situation and what I was doing.

9 Q Well you say that you quit filming because 10 nothing was happening at the time you got the call;

11 there was nothing happening at the time you started 12 filming, was there?

13 A Only the protest from Mr. Minton.

14 Q Just him walking up the street with the sign?

15 A That is it.

16 Q And he was still doing exactly the same thing 17 when you quit filming; right?

18 A That is right.

19 Q So, it is your testimony that it is pure 20 happenstance?

21 A That's correct.

22 Q That the entire confrontation is not on the 23 videotape?

24 A That is how it is.

25 Q That is just the way it fell out?

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 39 1 A Yeah.

2 MR. POPE: I object to the question. It 3 assumes that the entire confrontation is not on 4 the video. That is not a fact that has been 5 established.

6 MR. MERRETT: Actually it has now been 7 established by the response to the question.

8 THE COURT: Objection overruled.

9 Proceed.

10 BY MR. MERRETT:

11 Q So it -- were you watching during the time that 12 you weren't filming?

13 A That's correct.

14 Q Okay. If there was nothing important enough to 15 film going on, why was it important enough for you to 16 watch?

17 A Well, because I needed to get any, any of the 18 confrontation on video in case something did happen.

19 Q Now, there is a video camera mounted in a ball 20 fixture on the, what would that be, the north, I guess 21 that is the northeast corner of the Ft. Harrison;

22 correct?

23 A Yes, that's correct.

24 Q And it has a view south along the sidewalk in 25 front of the Ft. Harrison of everything that happens ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 40 1 out there; right?

2 A I don't actually know what the capabilities of 3 the camera's view. I don't know where it can see and 4 where it can't.

5 Q Well, you know it is a zoom camera; right?

6 A I believe.

7 Q You know it rotates 360 degrees inside that 8 ball; right?

9 A That's correct.

10 Q And there is also what is sometimes called a 11 lipstick camera under the south edge of the canopy of 12 the Ft. Harrison hanging out over the sidewalk; is 13 that correct?

14 A That's correct.

15 Q And there is a another surveillance camera down 16 on the garage, south of the canopy; correct?

17 A Yes, that's correct.

18 Q Then you have another building across Cleveland 19 Street from the bank building, some Scientology 20 building; right?

21 A You talking about the Coachman building?

22 Q I don't know. There is a building across 23 Cleveland Street from the bank building; right?

24 A Well, there is a building on Cleveland and Ft.

25 Harrison, yes.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 41 1 Q And you have a ball mounted camera on the side 2 of that building; correct?

3 A Yes.

4 Q It is correct that the videotape that you're 5 saying fairly and accurately reflects what you saw 6 doesn't show everything that you saw; right?

7 A That's correct.

8 Q And it doesn't show the beginning of contact or 9 the discussion between Mr. Minton and this other 10 individual; correct?

11 A Correct.

12 MR. MERRETT: Your Honor, I would object 13 to introduction of the video because it is 14 incomplete and therefore misleading.

15 MR. HOWIE: Your Honor, we join in the 16 objection.

17 MR. POPE: May I?

18 THE COURT: You may.

19 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 20 BY MR. POPE:

21 Q I want to make sure I understood. You were 22 filming Mr. Minton as he walked in front of the Ft.

23 Harrison Hotel?

24 A Yes.

25 Q You stopped to take the telephone call?

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 42 1 A Correct.

2 Q And what caused you to start filming again?

3 A That I was able to see that something, 4 Mr. O'Neal (sic) was approaching Minton and I saw a 5 reaction in Minton heading, turning towards 6 Mr. O'Neal, and at that point I started filming again.

7 MR. POPE: Okay. Your Honor, we -- we 8 renew our offer of this tape into evidence.

9 THE COURT: I'll allow it and give it 10 the credibility I feel it deserves. Let's 11 proceed. Wait a minute. Hand it to me. Let's 12 get it in.

13 MR. POPE: I want to offer the realtime 14 one and slow motion one. I marked them as 15 realtime as Exhibit 1, Your Honor, Number 1.

16 And this one is Number 2.

17 Your Honor, I have no further questions 18 of this witness.

19 THE COURT: All right, just a minute.

20 Let me get these in evidence.

21 Actually the one that is marked Number 1 22 is going to be your Number 2, because I used 23 that certificate -- 24 MR. POPE: That is fine, Your Honor.

25 THE COURT: But let me get the record ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 43 1 straight.

2 All right. The slow motion one is in 3 evidence and that will be the Number 3. And 4 the Petitioners Number 2 is the realtime.

5 MR. POPE: Well, yeah, Your Honor. I 6 just did a slow motion one so we can see what 7 happened.

8 THE COURT: But, just for the purpose of 9 this one, I want to write something on the 10 outside, realtime speed.

11 MR. POPE: That is fine.

12 THE COURT: Thank you. You may cross.

13 MR. HOWIE: May it please the Court?

14 CROSS-EXAMINATION 15 BY MR. HOWIE:

16 Q You did other filming of Robert Minton that 17 day; is that correct?

18 A That's correct.

19 Q And what happened to those tapes?

20 A I turned them in to, I turned them in.

21 Q Now all of this filming was on a single 22 videotape; was it not?

23 A You're referring to that date?

24 Q Yes.

25 A No, there was two tapes.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 44 1 Q And the tape which contains the portions that 2 occurred at approximately 9:43 that day, according to 3 the time stamp, there were other things on that 4 particular tape; correct?

5 A That's correct.

6 Q And where is the original of that tape?

7 A I don't know where it is right now.

8 Q Who did you turn it over to?

9 A I gave it to the police officer, the primary 10 police officer responding to it.

11 Q And do you know who that police officer was?

12 A Yes.

13 Q Who was that?

14 A It is Officer Darla Wood.

15 Q And that is of the Clearwater Police 16 Department?

17 A Yes.

18 Q Therefore do you have reason to believe that it 19 is still in the custody of the Clearwater Police 20 Department, or do you know otherwise?

21 A I believe it is still with the police 22 department.

23 Q At what time did the police respond that day?

24 Did you take note of the time?

25 A I didn't take note of the time, but it was, I ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 45 1 mean, ten minutes after it happened.

2 Q How was it then that the Church of Scientology 3 was still able to retain a copy of that tape?

4 A Well, I continued filming for a couple more 5 minutes after it had happened, the incident, and then 6 we reviewed the tape, looking at it while it was still 7 in the camera.

8 Q And you reviewed this tape while it was still 9 in the camera and then you provided that original tape 10 to a Clearwater Police Officer; is that correct?

11 A Correct.

12 Q And my question to you is, the Church of 13 Scientology appears to have a copy of the tape, where 14 did that copy come from?

15 MR. POPE: Your Honor, I will represent 16 to the Court that the police department gave us 17 a copy of the tape. I don't think this witness 18 knows.

19 THE COURT: Okay. Move it along.

20 MR. HOWIE: Well, let me ask you the 21 question.

22 THE COURT: Well, use that as 23 springboard. Go ahead.

24 BY MR. HOWIE:

25 Q Do you have any knowledge of it?

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 46 1 A I have no knowledge.

2 Q You did not, or prior to turning this tape over 3 to the Clearwater Police Department you did not make a 4 copy of it?

5 A That's correct.

6 Q To your knowledge nobody else made a copy of 7 it?

8 A I gave it straight from -- I gave it to the 9 hands of the police officer.

10 Q You took it out of your camera and handed it to 11 the police officer?

12 A Correct.

13 Q Was the tape ever out of your camera before you 14 handed it to the police officer?

15 A Very shortly, yes.

16 Q What was the reason for taking the tape out of 17 the camera?

18 A The security chief wanted to view it.

19 Q And how is it that the security chief viewed 20 this tape when it was taken out of the camera?

21 A To my knowledge he was not able to view it. He 22 had it and he had to return it because the police 23 wanted to see it then.

24 Q So you didn't take it out of the camera and 25 hand it to the police officer?

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 47 1 A Well I did, but first that is what happened.

2 First I handed it to the security chief.

3 Q Let me make sure I have it right. You take it 4 out of your camera and hand it to the security chief.

5 He does something to it; did you observe what the 6 security chief did with this tape?

7 A He took it and he went out of my sight.

8 Q How long was he out of your sight with the 9 tape?

10 A Two minutes.

11 Q And then he returned the tape to you at the end 12 the two minutes?

13 A Yes, he came back because at that time the 14 police wanted to view it.

15 Q And he made some indication to you that he was 16 not able to view the tape?

17 A He said he didn't get -- he didn't get to see 18 it at all.

19 Q And at that point you put the tape back in your 20 camera?

21 A Correct.

22 Q What was your reason for doing that?

23 A So I could show it to the police on the 24 display monitor on the camera what had happened.

25 Q Did you in fact show the police on the display ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 48 1 monitor of your camera?

2 A Yes.

3 Q And then you took the tape out of your camera 4 and immediately handed it to the police?

5 A That's correct.

6 Q What other officers were present when you 7 showed this tape to the police?

8 A There was another male officer with her. I 9 don't know his name.

10 Q But there were two police officers, the lady 11 you have identified and the unidentified male, 12 Clearwater Police Department?

13 A Yes.

14 Q Both of whom were uniform?

15 A Yes.

16 Q Do you have an editing function of any kind on 17 your camera?

18 A Negative.

19 Q You cannot erase portions of the tape on your 20 camera?

21 A I could stop it, rewind it, and record over it.

22 That is all I can do with it.

23 Q And what is the model or make of your camera?

24 A It is a hand-held camera. It is VHS. C size 25 tape. And it has a zoom lens. I believe it is ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 49 1 Panasonic. I'm sorry, JVC.

2 Q Do you know what model JVC?

3 A No, I don't.

4 Q Now, have you also had the opportunity to 5 observe two surveillance tapes made with the very same 6 instant on September 16, particularly one looking 7 southward toward the scene of the incident at the time 8 it occurred?

9 A You mean from my camera?

10 Q No, from other surveillance cameras. Have you 11 had the opportunity to review any other videotape 12 other than the one you made of that same incident on 13 September 16?

14 A Yes.

15 Q And there is in fact at the tail of one, that 16 is the surveillance tape looking southbound on Ft.

17 Harrison of a man with a video camera crossing the 18 street with a video camera, was that in fact you?

19 A That was after the incident?

20 Q Yeah.

21 A I did cross the street afterward.

22 Q And you are depicted on that tape, correct?

23 A I didn't see that part of the tape. All I saw 24 was the altercation between Minton and O'Riely.

25 Q So you did not view the complete tape?

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 50 1 A That's correct.

2 Q Now, on the tape -- you said that the reason 3 why there is a twenty second gap on your tape is 4 because you stopped filming, filming in order to 5 receive a radio call; correct?

6 A That's correct.

7 Q Are you talking about a cell phone call or some 8 sort of security radio?

9 A It is a Nextel radio.

10 Q And who was it that was calling you?

11 A It was a security guard that works for the 12 church as well.

13 Q Can you identify the person?

14 A Alger Avila.

15 Q Any relation?

16 A Yeah, he is my cousin.

17 Q And there is depicted on the beginning of this 18 videotape during the first several seconds of it, 19 depicting Robert Mention going northbound with a 20 picket sign in which an individual in the background 21 with a radio, or what appears to be a radio, and he 22 appears to be making a radio call; was that the 23 individual who is contacting you?

24 A No, he was in another building.

25 Q Do you know who -- you had an opportunity to ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 51 1 review this videotape; correct?

2 A The one I film, yes.

3 Q Can you identify the man who is depicted at the 4 beginning of the videotape who appears to be operating 5 a hand-held radio?

6 MR. POPE: Your Honor, the witness ought 7 to be able to, at the time we play this for the 8 Court, I'm sure he can identify him. That is a 9 little tough question.

10 THE COURT: I don't why but I get the 11 feeling I'm sitting through a deposition here.

12 MR. HOWIE: Your Honor, I'm merely 13 trying to account for the twenty second gap.

14 THE COURT: I think you made your point 15 a long time ago, but, you know, you can press 16 on. We have been going on for an hour and five 17 minutes. We'll take a ten minute break.

18 Witness, you're on the witness stand. I'm 19 going to keep you in the bubble. You can get 20 down, go to the bathroom, get something to 21 drink, get back on the witness stand. While 22 you go out you're not to speak to anyone about 23 anything at any time, you're on the stand.

24 Let's take a break.

25 THE BAILIFF: All rise. Go ahead and ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 52 1 move about.

2 (THERE UPON A RECESS WAS TAKEN AT 10:12 A.M. AND 3 THE PROCEEDINGS CONTINUED AS FOLLOWS:) 4 CONTINUED CROSS EXAMINATION 5 BY MR. HOWIE:

6 Q Mr. Avila, there is a conversation on the tape 7 that is in evidence during the first several seconds 8 of the tape in which somebody discusses putting their 9 finger on a button of the machine; was that your 10 conversation?

11 A I don't think so. I didn't hear that audio.

12 Q Did you make any statements while you were 13 filming this that would have been picked up by your 14 camera?

15 A Well, I had been talking on the phone, or I'm 16 sorry, the radio. I don't know. I don't know if any 17 of that got recorded.

18 Q You were talking on the radio before you turned 19 off the camera?

20 A I'm not sure which I did first.

21 Q So your talking on the radio may not have 22 prevented you from doing this filming?

23 A Absolutely it did. That is the reason I 24 stopped the film.

25 Q And yet you indicated that you may have been ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 53 1 talking on the radio before the filming stopped?

2 A What I meant is that the person called me on it 3 could have been talking on it.

4 Q Who is the security chief that you turned the 5 tape over to, please?

6 A That is Paul Kellerhals.

7 Q Paul?

8 A Kellerhals.

9 Q And were you ever able to determine how long 10 the original videotape actually was?

11 A Actually I don't know how long it was.

12 Q But you did indicate that there were other 13 things that were on the original videotape other than 14 what is on this exhibit; is that correct?

15 A Yes. After -- that's correct. After the 16 altercation is on, I believe I filmed a few more 17 minutes.

18 Q So the exhibit that is in evidence, which you 19 have indicated from the testimony that you reviewed, 20 is not the exact copy of the original from your 21 camera; correct?

22 A Well, there is two tapes. One is -- the one I 23 believe that is slow motion is not, that is only the 24 altercation. And the other one is the exact copy of 25 it.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 54 1 Q You're saying that the one that is in evidence 2 is a complete copy of the original videotape that you 3 took?

4 A Correct.

5 Q With everything that was on the original tape?

6 A I believe so.

7 Q So you're saying there is nothing else on the 8 original tape that is not on the exhibit in evidence?

9 A Yeah, that is right.

10 MR. HOWIE: Thank you. No further 11 questions.

12 THE COURT: All right, counsel?

13 MR. MERRETT: Your Honor, I would like 14 to defer cross-examination pending publication 15 of the exhibit, since the witness purports to 16 be -- 17 THE COURT: No, I understand. That is 18 fine.

19 MR. POPE: Your Honor, may I inquire on 20 these areas, or a couple of them?

21 THE COURT: Okay. Then are we going to 22 publish this?

23 MR. POPE: If you want it published 24 immediately.

25 THE COURT: What I would like you to do ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 55 1 is ask your questions.

2 MR. POPE: All right.

3 THE COURT: And then we'll stop and 4 let's publish it, please.

5 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 6 BY MR. POPE:

7 Q All right. I want to make sure I understood 8 your testimony. He asked you whether the tape that is 9 in evidence is a complete copy of the whole tape that 10 you made, that is not true is it?

11 A What happened, I didn't see the whole tape 12 here. I know the -- before the altercation and after 13 the altercation, that is complete. That is a complete 14 and accurate copy. What is after on the tape, I 15 didn't see what's in that one.

16 Q The original tape had a lot of other picketing 17 activity on it; didn't it?

18 A That's correct, yes.

19 Q This is just an excerpt of this tape from the 20 altercation?

21 A Yes, I thought he meant in reference to the 22 altercation section, which -- 23 Q Let's get back. There was questions about this 24 twenty second gap. Tell the Court what happened 25 during that twenty seconds, you saw it didn't you?

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 56 1 A That's correct.

2 Q What happened?

3 A I was filming from across the street, focussing 4 on Mr. Minton. He was demonstrating in front of the 5 Ft. Harrison Hotel. I was filming then I received a 6 call on the radio. I turned the camera off, answered 7 the radio, and I was still able to see what's going 8 on.

9 Q What was going on?

10 A Minton was heading northbound with the picket 11 sign, was walking on the sidewalk. Then I saw 12 Mr. O'Riely coming southbound on the same sidewalk.

13 However, not in the same line of path. When they got 14 closer, within, I believe, couple arms distance apart, 15 Minton turned towards him and started heading towards 16 him. At that point I stopped, I dropped the radio, 17 stopped talking on it, and I immediately started 18 recording again. However, there is -- I started 19 recording before they actually met, but the camera has 20 a few seconds lag to pick up from where I left off, 21 therefore I may -- I missed the actual beginning of 22 it.

23 Q Okay. And then tell us what happened then in 24 the altercation?

25 A Then what happened is, Minton went towards ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 57 1 Neal, Neal seemed to be backing away from him. He had 2 his arms in front of him to not let him get too close.

3 Minton dropped his sign and with both hands went 4 towards Neal and grabbed him by the throat, choking 5 him. Neal seemed to be struggling to get loose. At 6 the same time Mr. Minton was trying to make Neal lose 7 his balance to get him to the ground. And they did 8 end up on the ground. And when they were on the 9 ground Minton proceeded to get his, I'm sorry, his arm 10 around Mr. O'Riely's neck, trying to choke him while 11 he is still on the ground. So O'Riely was trying to 12 get back up and was being held down by Minton having 13 his arm around his neck.

14 Q So, now, is the date stamp that appears on the 15 video correct?

16 A The date is incorrect.

17 Q What is the correct date that you took that 18 video?

19 A That is the 16th of September.

20 Q Why is the date stamp incorrect?

21 A I had been charging the battery the day before, 22 or the night before, and there is a memory in the 23 camera, which must have run out of what the correct 24 date was, and it resets to the manufacturing date.

25 MR. POPE: All right. I have no further ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 58 1 questions. I'm ready to publish.

2 THE COURT: Wait a minute. Before we 3 publish. Did that line of questioning provoke 4 anything that you want to bring up before we 5 see the video, Mr. Howie?

6 MR. HOWIE: I apologize, Your Honor, I 7 was considering the aspect of the best evidence 8 rule, but I am not in a position to make that 9 with the representation by the petitioner that 10 the original of the tape continues to be in the 11 possession of the Clearwater Police Department.

12 So, so I have an objection on, based on the 13 best evidence rule, unless it can be 14 represented by the Petitioner that in fact this 15 is correct.

16 MR. POPE: Your Honor, two things. One, 17 you have already admitted these into evidence.

18 And secondly, he has testified that these are 19 fair and accurate depictions of the events that 20 he witnessed.

21 THE COURT: Let's proceed.

22 MR. HOWIE: Your Honor, I'm just raising 23 the point of the authenticity.

24 THE COURT: I understand what you're 25 raising, and I appreciate what you're saying.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 59 1 And for our purposes here, though, based on the 2 testimony of this witness, we'll proceed with 3 these.

4 Now, if and when you ever get those from 5 the police department and you have a chance to 6 view them and then they're not, you know, there 7 is a big difference if, if -- well, let's say 8 if you needed to bring something to the Court's 9 attention I would, you know, entertain it. You 10 know what I'm saying. Thank you. Let's go.

11 MR. POPE: May we publish these?

12 THE COURT: Yes. Yes. Take the one you 13 want, realtime, slow time, whatever.

14 MR. POPE: We'll take the realtime 15 first. You want this wheeled around so you can 16 see it, Your Honor?

17 THE COURT: I can see it fine. I can 18 see it. Can you all see it? Look, if you 19 can't see it move. This is a friendly court.

20 You're not glued to where you're sitting.

21 Move. Do me a favor, if you mix, stay 22 friendly. I don't need to be a witness. All 23 right. Let's do it.

24 THE COURT REPORTER: Your Honor, may I 25 inquire if there is any audio on the video?

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 60 1 MR. POPE: There is.

2 THE COURT: All right, now listen.

3 These are in evidence. The record is going to 4 speak for itself as far as the audio. I'm not 5 going to require my court reporter to take it 6 down.

7 MR. POPE: That is fine.

8 MR. HOWIE: No objection, Your Honor.

9 THE COURT: This doesn't work on my 10 garden variety taxpayer VCR. When you all 11 going to learn?

12 MR. POPE: There it is.

13 THE COURT: Oh, it is working. Well, I 14 apologize.

15 MR. POPE: If we can go to the 16 beginning.

17 THE COURT: Back it up. Start over.

18 (THEREUPON THE VIDEOTAPE WAS PUBLISHED.)

19 MR. POPE: Maybe you better start it 20 over again. I think we missed the first part 21 of it.

22 THE COURT: Back it up. Okay. So who 23 is there?

24 MR. POPE: Of those people that were 25 just there? I don't know who can identify ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 61 1 them. Mr. Hurt (phonetic) knows who the people 2 were there. Who is it?

3 MR. MERRETT: I would be happy to have 4 Mr. Hurt to be sworn to take the stand.

5 THE COURT: I'm waiting for this witness 6 to identify them, or somebody. I don't know 7 who those two people are wrestling, or if it is 8 two people from the Scientologists that has 9 in-house problem there or what is going on.

10 You even know -- somebody tell me what is going 11 on.

12 MR. POPE: Mr. Avila will do that, Your 13 Honor.

14 THE WITNESS: That is Mr. O'Riely and 15 that is Minton.

16 THE COURT: Now, Mr. Minton is in the 17 dark colored shirt.

18 THE WITNESS: Correct.

19 THE COURT: Mr. O'Riely is in the dark 20 colored shirt?

21 THE WITNESS: And dark pants.

22 THE COURT: They both have dark pants, 23 one is gray and one is -- 24 THE WITNESS: The one on the right is 25 Mr. Minton.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 62 1 THE COURT: The one putting the arm 2 around trying to do the take down is Minton?

3 THE WITNESS: Right.

4 THE COURT: And the one standing up is 5 O'Riely.

6 THE WITNESS: Right.

7 THE COURT: Now he is down.

8 MR. POPE: Who is Mr. O'Riely.

9 THE WITNESS: He works for the church.

10 He works in the office of special affairs for 11 the church. That is Mr. O'Riely here.

12 THE COURT: He is the one on top of the 13 man in the purple shirt?

14 THE WITNESS: Correct.

15 THE COURT: Okay. What have we got 16 here? Who is the person in the dungarees and 17 who is the person in the, looks like khaki 18 shorts.

19 THE WITNESS: These -- these are 20 protesters with Minton.

21 THE COURT: Both of those two 22 individuals?

23 THE WITNESS: The lady and the man with 24 the shorts.

25 THE COURT: Belong to Minton?

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 63 1 MR. MERRETT: I have to object to the 2 Court assuming facts not in evidence.

3 THE COURT: What part am I assuming, 4 belong?

5 MR. MERRETT: That they belong to 6 Minton.

7 THE COURT: Okay. Scratch that. But 8 they're not Scientologist?

9 THE WITNESS: They are there to protest 10 with picket signs.

11 THE COURT: But they broke up the 12 fight?

13 THE WITNESS: Correct. Once they were 14 on the ground those two people that were 15 protesting they came and removed Mr. O'Riely 16 from Mr. Minton, and it looks like they were 17 separating them.

18 THE COURT: Okay. All right. You may 19 be seated.

20 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

21 THE COURT: Somebody hand me that tape 22 so I can put it back in the chain of evidence.

23 Okay. Now let's do this? Mr. Merrett.

24 MR. MERRETT: Yes.

25 THE COURT: You wanted to ask questions ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 64 1 once it is published?

2 MR. MERRETT: Yes.

3 THE COURT: Do you want to ask questions 4 while it is running?

5 MR. MERRETT: That is probably not 6 necessary, but if the realtime tape is 7 available it may save time.

8 THE COURT: Let's do this. Put the 9 realtime tape back in for him, please, sir.

10 And give me the slow time. Go ahead, sir.

11 BY MR. MERRETT:

12 Q Now, at the beginning of that tape when we hear 13 audio of somebody saying, do you have your hand on it, 14 are you pressing the button; do you recall that?

15 A I heard it just -- 16 Q Who is that talking?

17 A I don't recall who it was. There was other 18 people on the sidewalk.

19 Q Who were they?

20 A I'm not sure who they were.

21 Q So, obviously they're standing very close to 22 you?

23 A Well, as far as the microphone is concerned, 24 yes, sir.

25 Q Okay. Who were you talking to at that point?

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 65 1 A Well. I got a call from my, from the other 2 security guard on the radio.

3 Q Now, the, the -- when you say Nextel radio, 4 those are phones with a radio capability; correct?

5 A That's correct.

6 Q And when you were contacted by radio, correct?

7 A That's correct.

8 Q Using the radio function?

9 A Yes.

10 THE COURT: Excuse me, Nextel has a 11 phone that can also be a radio?

12 MR. MERRETT: Yes.

13 THE COURT: And you get the Internet and 14 everything?

15 MR. MERRETT: I don't know if you get 16 the Internet, but they have the radio deal.

17 THE COURT: Wow. Okay.

18 BY MR. MERRETT:

19 Q So when the radio is keyed when somebody 20 contacts you by radio there is a three or four time 21 chirp, correct?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Like beep, beep, beep?

24 A Something like that, yes.

25 Q And it is your testimony that you received such ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 66 1 a radio call preceded by an audible chirp immediately 2 prior to the time you stopped filming?

3 A Correct.

4 Q So we should hear the chirp on the tape?

5 A It is possible.

6 Q Now, when you gave the tape to Mr. Kellerhals 7 to take out of your camera, you were on the Ft.

8 Harrison side of the street; correct?

9 A Yes.

10 Q And Mr. Kellerhals walked south on Ft.

11 Harrison, correct?

12 A Mr. Kellerhals? I don't where he came from, 13 but I was in front of the hotel.

14 Q Now listen to the question. After you gave -- 15 you said that he disappeared from sight for a period 16 time after you gave him the tape?

17 A Right.

18 Q When he left you after receiving the tape he 19 walked south on Ft. Harrison; correct?

20 A That is right.

21 Q And after you go past the front door of the Ft.

22 Harrison the next opening to the south is the drive-in 23 garage door; correct?

24 A That's correct.

25 Q And inside that opening is the door to the ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 67 1 security office; correct?

2 A That's correct.

3 Q And in that security office are the 4 surveillance cameras, or the surveillance monitors 5 that all these cameras you all have all over town are 6 connected to; right?

7 A Right.

8 Q And they're also video cassette recorders in 9 there; correct?

10 A I believe so. I'm not sure.

11 Q Well, if you want to pull the tape from one of 12 the surveillance cameras you pull it out of that 13 office; right?

14 A Right.

15 Q Okay. And that is the direction that 16 Mr. Kellerhals went when he disappeared from your 17 sight, correct?

18 A He went towards the south, yes.

19 Q Now, you yourself are an employee of what 20 entity?

21 A Church of Scientology, Flag Service 22 Organization.

23 Q And you are also an adherent or member of the 24 Church of Scientology; is that correct?

25 A That's correct.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 68 1 Q Now, in the verified complaint the Church of 2 Scientology, Flag Service Organization represents 3 through Mary Story that, in Paragraph three, 4 represents that the Church of Scientology Flag Service 5 Organization, Inc. operates the Church of Scientology.

6 What is the Church of Scientology.

7 MR. POPE: Your Honor, irrelevant.

8 MR. MERRETT: It goes to the issue of 9 standings.

10 THE COURT: Overruled. Move on.

11 BY MR. MERRETT:

12 Q What is the Church of Scientology?

13 A It is a church where you get spiritual 14 counselling and -- you want anymore description than 15 that?

16 Q What I'm asking you is if it is operated by the 17 Flag Service Organization, what is it that the Flag 18 Service Organization operates that it is calling a 19 church?

20 A Well it delivers all the counselling, and 21 provide the employees who do that, the schools where 22 people go, and take church services.

23 Q Is the Church of Scientology incorporated as a 24 separate entity from the Flag Service Organization; do 25 you know?

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 69 1 A I don't know.

2 Q But, the Flag Service Organization is not the 3 church; correct?

4 MR. POPE: Your Honor, he is asking the 5 witness to render a legal opinion on a matter 6 that really is more appropriate for the Court.

7 THE COURT: Well, I'm going to let him 8 explore it.

9 MR. MERRETT: Is that right?

10 THE COURT: Can you answer the question?

11 THE WITNESS: Can you repeat the 12 question?

13 BY MR. MERRETT:

14 Q Flag is not the church; correct?

15 A I don't actually know if that is the way it is 16 or not.

17 Q The Office of Special Affairs, that is the 18 successor to the guardian's office; is that correct?

19 A I'm not sure. That was before my time.

20 Q The Office of Special Affairs is concerned with 21 intelligence, surveillance, and legal actions;

22 correct?

23 A I'm aware of the legal actions.

24 Q You're aware that the Office of Special Affairs 25 employs private investigators, employs lawyers, and ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 70 1 employs people to keep tabs on persons regarded as 2 enemies of the church?

3 MR. POPE: Objection, Your Honor. This 4 is way past my scope of direct. It is totally 5 irrelevant to the matter before the Court 6 today.

7 THE COURT: Overruled.

8 BY MR. MERRETT:

9 Q Is that right?

10 A I know that the Office of Special Affairs does 11 hire special people such as attorneys. I'm not sure 12 who they hire or what their position.

13 Q You don't know. You're testifying that you 14 don't know that they hire private investigators?

15 A I know they hire security personnel. I don't 16 know what you call them. That is what I refer to.

17 Q What time is the last seating for meals in the 18 evenings at the bank building?

19 A The last seating starts at 8 o'clock and ends 20 8:45 p.m.

21 THE COURT: We are -- I have been real 22 patient trying to give both of you a fair crack 23 at this witness, but, I don't recall us getting 24 up the street there on this incident. Now if 25 you can lead me to something that happened up ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 71 1 there at the bus stop, I guess I call that the 2 bus stop, I don't know what else you're going 3 to call it.

4 MR. MERRETT: Judge, then I'm going to 5 ask that you require this witness to remain 6 available. They have a ten page verified 7 complaint.

8 THE COURT: I'll be glad to.

9 MR. MERRETT: Thank you.

10 THE COURT: Sir, well wait a minute.

11 MR. MERRETT: I don't have anything 12 further at this time.

13 THE COURT: Well let me see if anybody 14 else does. What he is saying, he may call you 15 back.

16 THE WITNESS: I understand.

17 THE COURT: So when you get down from 18 here you're going to have to go back out and 19 wait outside and they may call you back in.

20 Let me see, before I say get down, if anybody 21 has anymore questions.

22 MR. POPE: I have nothing further, Your 23 Honor.

24 MR. HOWIE: Nothing further.

25 THE COURT: Okay. Wait outside, please.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 72 1 Don't go away.

2 THE WITNESS: No problem.

3 MR. POPE: Your Honor, I believe that we 4 reserved two hours for this hearing.

5 THE COURT: I'll go another hour. Do 6 you have to be in court somewhere else?

7 MR. POPE: No, sir. No, sir.

8 THE COURT: I can carry you up to noon.

9 I have got a noon appointment, but I, and -- 10 let's -- let's go another hour and see where 11 we're at and I'll make some more adjustments.

12 MR. POPE: Well, I'm going to call -- I 13 have three more videotapes to authenticate.

14 Before I do that I'm going to call a witness, 15 let's see, Lindsey Colton, Lindsey Colton.

16 THE COURT: That is one of the PI 17 witnesses?

18 MR. POPE: One of the PI witnesses, 19 right.

20 THE COURT: Hello. Welcome. Your 21 witness.

22 DIRECT EXAMINATION 23 BY MR. POPE:

24 Q Would you tell us your name, please.

25 A Lindsey Colton.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 73 1 Q And your address, Ms. Colton?

2 A 2194 Main Street, Dunedin.

3 THE COURT: Just a minute. Just a 4 minute. Can everybody hear her okay? Ma'am, 5 you sitting back there, can you hear her? You 6 can? Okay. I'm going to use you as my 7 sounding board, okay. If I see you straining 8 I'll ask her to speak up. Go ahead.

9 BY MR. POPE:

10 Q And your occupation, Ms. Colton?

11 A I'm a private investigator.

12 Q And do you have a company?

13 A Yes. Yes, I do. Colton and Associates.

14 Q And how long have you been a private 15 investigator?

16 A Since 1993.

17 Q And where are you originally from?

18 A England.

19 Q Are you a United States citizen?

20 A Yes, I am.

21 Q Are you a member of the Church of Scientology?

22 A No, I'm not.

23 Q Have you ever been?

24 A No, I have not.

25 Q Were you at the Ft. Harrison Hotel on the ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 74 1 evening of July 28, 2000?

2 A Yes, I was.

3 Q Why were you there?

4 A I was asked to be present to observe some 5 protestors that had been coming out and making a 6 nuisance.

7 MR. MERRETT: Objection. Hearsay.

8 THE COURT: Sustained.

9 BY MR. POPE:

10 Q Were you employed by someone to undertake this 11 task?

12 A Yes, I was.

13 Q And who employed you?

14 A Moxon and Corbin.

15 THE COURT: I'm sorry, who?

16 BY MR. POPE:

17 Q And who are those folks?

18 A They're a law firm associated with the Church 19 of Scientology.

20 Q All right. And who was with you on that?

21 A Greg Colton, my husband, and Steve Belabania 22 (phonetic). I pronounce the name Paully. And another 23 gentleman, I don't know his last name.

24 Q And your husband, is he a member of your 25 private investigating?

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 75 1 A Yes, he is.

2 Q What did you observe that evening?

3 A When we first arrived the protesters were 4 walking from corner to corner, back and forth. And as 5 the buses and vans came in to let people off they 6 stopped going from corner to corner.

7 THE COURT: Wait a minute. Wait a 8 minute. Buses and vans came in to let people 9 off. Where? What are we talking about?

10 THE WITNESS: There is like mini buses 11 that belong to the Church of Scientology that 12 let visitors or guests off in front of the Ft.

13 Harrison Hotel.

14 THE COURT: In front of the Ft. Harrison 15 Hotel. We're not talking about the cafeteria?

16 MR. POPE: This focus is on the Ft.

17 Harrison.

18 THE COURT: Okay. I'm trying to tie it 19 all together.

20 BY MR. POPE:

21 Q Now, would you tell us how it is that these 22 buses and vans have to maneuver to drop off their 23 passengers in front of the Ft. Harrison?

24 A Um, because the entrance or the street in front 25 of the Ft. Harrison Hotel is a road that pull into and ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 76 1 onto the sidewalk and lets guests off to get inside 2 the door. And then they get on and pull into traffic 3 when it is clear.

4 Q So they pull off the street?

5 A Pull off the street onto the sidewalk to let 6 people off and on and then pull into the street.

7 Q Did you notice whether the sidewalk is designed 8 to facilitate that?

9 A Well, it is flat. It has not got the typical 10 curb that you would have on a normal sidewalk.

11 Q And how many -- how many picketers were there 12 that evening you were there?

13 A There was approximately ten.

14 Q Can you -- can you state, to your knowledge, 15 that Stacy Brooks was one of the picketers.

16 A Yes, I can.

17 Q And Patricia Greenway?

18 A Yes.

19 Q And Peter Alexander?

20 A Yes.

21 Q And -- 22 THE COURT: Show down. Slow down. Slow 23 down. Stacy Brooks. Who is next?

24 MR. POPE: Patricia Greenway.

25 THE COURT: Okay. Next.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 77 1 MR. POPE: Peter Alexander.

2 THE COURT: Okay. Just a minute. Okay.

3 Go again.

4 BY MR. POPE:

5 Q And Jeff Jacobson?

6 A I'm not sure if Jeff Jacobson was there.

7 Q You can identify Brooks, Greenway, and 8 Alexander but not Jacobson?

9 A Yes.

10 Q Okay. And did you observe anything with 11 respect to difficulties that arose regarding the 12 unloading and loading of these vans?

13 A Yes, I did. When they started to come in 14 protesters, instead of just walking to the end of the 15 curbs or staying out of the way, congregated around 16 the vans and mini buses and came close to them, 17 sometimes standing in front of them as they tried to 18 pull into the, onto the sidewalk, so that the police 19 department actually made the mini buses park in the 20 street because they were afraid that a protester would 21 get in the way.

22 MR. MERRETT: Objection. Competence.

23 THE COURT: Sustained.

24 BY MR. POPE:

25 Q Don't tell us what the police were afraid of.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 78 1 You observed the police doing what?

2 A Stopping the vans and mini buses. I did 3 actually speak to the police regarding the matter.

4 Q Did you observe that the vans were then stopped 5 in the middle of Ft. Harrison?

6 A Yes, they were. And we were told to make them 7 stop, not to let them come on the sidewalk.

8 Q And what was the effect of this on the flow of 9 traffic on Ft. Harrison?

10 A Well, anyone in the right-hand lane has to stop 11 because of the mini bus, because it would pull up and 12 stop right on the side, right in the street. And 13 there was anywhere from couple of minutes to ten 14 minutes where the parties would gorge and disgorge 15 getting on and off the bus.

16 THE COURT: They would do what?

17 THE WITNESS: Well, it depended how many 18 people were on the mini bus or van getting off 19 and those going on. Some people would leave 20 the Ft. Harrison to get on the bus and some get 21 off the bus to go into the Ft. Harrison. So it 22 depends on how long -- 23 THE COURT: That word gorge, you're 24 talking about moving back and forth?

25 THE WITNESS: Yes, just gorging from the ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 79 1 bus.

2 BY MR. POPE:

3 Q Did you have some sort of exchange with 4 Patricia Greenway and Stacy Brooks?

5 A Yes, I did.

6 Q What happened?

7 A Both Stacy Brooks and Patricia Greenway got in 8 my face, and the expression was approximately six to 9 eight inches away from me to tell me that I was a 10 liar, that I was a Scientologist, what was I doing 11 there, and numerous other things. Then when I 12 wouldn't respond they took my photograph and told me 13 that they were going to put it on the Internet and 14 that I would regret it and I would be sorry for the 15 fact that they were going to put it on the Internet.

16 Q Did you also have some sort of encounter with 17 Mr. Minton during these events?

18 A Mr. Minton walked back and forth with the 19 protesters, but he carried a placard. And he doesn't 20 carry the placard high, he holds it sort of shoulder 21 length, or shoulder height I should say. And as he 22 walked through he would clip people on the shoulders 23 and the side of the heads. He clipped myself and my 24 husband walking through the crowd, and didn't stop.

25 He didn't care.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 80 1 Q And how did the picketers conduct themselves in 2 general?

3 A Well, it became very confusing. In fact when 4 we first arrived we just stood there to observe as we 5 had been told, to make sure people could get off. But 6 as the buses came in and they had to stand on the 7 sidewalk, or step off the sidewalk, they began to 8 congregate in front of the buses, so we actually had 9 to stand there and put our arms up to let people get 10 off, because they were getting in the way of people 11 getting off and getting through the passage way.

12 Q And did -- were -- were there Scientologists 13 also in front of the Ft. Harrison Hotel at the same 14 time?

15 A Yes, there were.

16 Q And what did you observe regarding their 17 conduct?

18 A They were standing along the wall of the 19 building, and on the steps of the building. They were 20 out of the sidewalk way. Couple of them spoke to the 21 protesters and asked them questions, but the 22 protesters (sic) didn't answer the questions.

23 Q Okay.

24 A Some of the protesters -- 25 MR. MERRETT: Objection.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 81 1 Non-responsive.

2 MR. POPE: Your Honor, she was trying to 3 complete her answer.

4 MR. MERRETT: Your Honor, if I may. The 5 question was, what were the Scientologists 6 doing. And she was saying what some of the 7 protesters were doing.

8 BY MR. POPE:

9 Q Well, I'll ask you the question. What were you 10 getting ready to say about the protestors?

11 A Well, one of the protesters picked up items, 12 the money, the change had fallen off on the sidewalk 13 and was attempting to put it into the one of the 14 Church or Scientologists shirts, and trying to put it 15 in their pocket and making comments about the money 16 and such. And the Scientologist didn't respond or 17 have any touch, but the protesters were making a 18 physical touch.

19 Q Were the Scientologists seeking to engage the 20 protesters physically?

21 A No.

22 MR. MERRETT: Objection, competence, 23 Your Honor.

24 MR. POPE: She was there, Your Honor, 25 she can see it.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 82 1 THE COURT: That is overruled. Proceed.

2 MR. POPE: I'm finished with this 3 witness, Your Honor.

4 THE COURT: All right. Who would like 5 to go first.

6 MR. HOWIE: If I may, Your Honor.

7 THE COURT: You may. Go ahead.

8 CROSS-EXAMINATION 9 BY MR. HOWIE:

10 Q Ma'am, have you had the opportunity to review a 11 videotape or any videotape taken of that evening 12 concerning the events?

13 A Yes, I have reviewed one.

14 Q And do you know who the videographer for that 15 videotape was?

16 A No, I don't.

17 Q While you -- while all of this was going on 18 were you able to observe that videographer taking the 19 videotape, the one that you saw?

20 A I'm sorry. I don't understand that question.

21 Q While you were there, during the events that 22 you described -- 23 A Right.

24 Q -- were you able to see someone taking 25 videotape?

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 83 1 A Yes, there were several people, both the 2 protesters and the Scientologist taking video.

3 Q The one videotape that you saw, do you know, 4 from your observation which videographer that was?

5 A No, I couldn't tell you. I didn't spend much 6 time on the video, with the videographers, mine was 7 more on the protesters.

8 Q Now, ma'am you described that Robert Minton was 9 carrying the sign low down toward his shoulder;

10 correct?

11 A Correct.

12 Q And did you in fact, in reviewing this 13 videotape, observe Mr. Minton on that videotape?

14 A Yes, he is on the videotape.

15 Q And to your recollection does that videotape 16 depict Mr. Minton carrying his, carrying his picket 17 sign down toward his shoulder?

18 A Yes.

19 Q And you indicate that as Mr. Minton went by 20 people he clipped them, presumably, on the head or 21 shoulder area?

22 A Correct.

23 Q And by clipped you mean that the corner of the 24 sign made contact with -- 25 A Right, the placard that he was carrying, ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 84 1 correct.

2 Q And it would be a correct statement to say that 3 the sidewalk was relatively crowded that evening 4 between the protesters and people getting on and off 5 the bus; correct?

6 A Yes.

7 Q And in fact you and the three other individuals 8 you described were in fact deliberately attempting to 9 temporarily block the sidewalks as people got on and 10 off the van?

11 A Not at beginning, but yes.

12 Q That too was depicted in the videotape which 13 you saw?

14 A Correct.

15 MR. HOWIE: Thank you. I don't have any 16 further questions.

17 CROSS EXAMINATION 18 BY MR. MERRETT:

19 Q How much were you being paid to be out there 20 that night?

21 A $20.00 an hour.

22 Q For you and for your husband?

23 A Yes.

24 Q And the other people who were out there with 25 you, do you know what their arrangement, were they ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 85 1 working for you?

2 A No, there was a gentleman that was working 3 there that worked for another company.

4 Q This was not the first time you worked for 5 Moxon and Corbin; correct?

6 A That week certainly was.

7 Q Okay, please just answer my question.

8 MR. POPE: Objection, Your Honor. He is 9 arguing with the witness and she did answer the 10 question.

11 THE COURT: Well, all right. Okay. She 12 did answer your question. But re-ask, or 13 rephrase it.

14 BY MR. MERRETT:

15 Q Ma'am, do you recall the date of the event you 16 testified about so far?

17 A It was the 28th of July.

18 Q Was that the first time that you worked for 19 Moxon and Corbin?

20 A No.

21 Q Thank you.

22 A It was that week.

23 Q Let me ask you what about you refer to in your 24 affidavit as Stacy Brooks shoving you; how many times 25 did Stacy Brooks come into any kind of physical ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 86 1 contact with you?

2 A She only shoved me once. And I specifically 3 told her not to touch me again. And we faced each 4 other and she apologized and never touched me again.

5 Q And you immediately walked down the street to a 6 police officer to complain about it?

7 A Yes, I did. I advised the police officer that 8 if she were to touch me again, because it wasn't a 9 gentle touching, it was a shoving, that I would want 10 to press charges. And I did tell her that at the time 11 too.

12 Q If I -- if I ask you to answer my question and 13 then stop, okay?

14 A Okay.

15 Q Now, the answer to my question is, there was 16 only one occasion on which Stacy Brooks came into 17 physical contact with you; is that correct?

18 A Physical as in touching. Physically touching 19 me, correct.

20 Q And this was not a gentle touch, it wasn't a 21 tap, it was a shove?

22 A Correct.

23 Q Did it move your body at all?

24 A Yes, it did.

25 Q How did it move your body?

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 87 1 A It shoved me forward. Shoved me from behind.

2 Q Did you lose your balance?

3 A Well, my feet stayed on the ground but my body 4 went forward. My Upper body went forward as it is 5 shown on the video.

6 Q Now, at this time you were standing on the 7 sidewalk; correct?

8 A Correct.

9 Q Was this one of the times when you were joined 10 with others blocking the sidewalk or were you standing 11 by yourself?

12 A I was standing, standing beside the mini bus.

13 Standing back by one of the buses, but I don't know at 14 the time whether I had my arms up or whether I was 15 just standing. For a period of time we were just 16 standing with our arms down beside us.

17 Q Ms. Brooks was moving north on Ft. Harrison; is 18 that correct?

19 A I apologize, but I'm very poor with north, 20 south, east, and west.

21 Q She was heading toward the Presbyterian Church;

22 correct?

23 A Correct, she was.

24 Q And you were facing the Presbyterian Church?

25 A Correct.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 88 1 THE COURT: Do you want me to take 2 judicial notice of where everything is in the 3 area? Because for the record, I'm not sure 4 other people will know where the Presbyterian 5 Church was. Having lived in Clearwater since 6 1969 I know where the Ft. Harrison Hotels. I 7 know the area. I have driven by there more 8 times then you probably have been alive.

9 MR. MERRETT: Thank you.

10 BY MR. MERRETT:

11 Q Okay, she was facing in the direction she was 12 moving; correct?

13 A Correct.

14 Q And immediately behind her was a videographer 15 walking backwards; correct?

16 A Correct.

17 Q She had her hand in the middle of his back;

18 right?

19 A I don't know where her hands were.

20 THE COURT: And for the record, that 21 church would be north of the Ft. Harrison on 22 Ft. Harrison.

23 BY MR. MERRETT:

24 Q Tell me about when she shoved Greg Colton?

25 A I'm only aware that she did. You would have to ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 89 1 ask him the circumstances.

2 Q Okay. So, let me make sure that I understand 3 this. In paragraph eight of your affidavit you're 4 swearing to things you don't have any personal 5 knowledge of; correct?

6 A No, I have personal knowledge that she was 7 walking through the crowd, shoved me and had shoved 8 him. He told me she shoved him.

9 Q Okay. But you don't know other than what he 10 told you whether or not she shoved him; right?

11 A I couldn't specify whether she shoved him from 12 the front or she shoved him from the back. I heard 13 him turn around and told her not to shove him too.

14 Q So you do know what your husband said but you 15 didn't witness anything?

16 A What I heard, what I heard from him.

17 Q You did not witness any shoving; correct?

18 A Correct.

19 Q So we know that your affidavit, at least this 20 part, is based on things that you didn't see; correct?

21 A Okay. From hearing his statement -- 22 Q Your Honor, I'm going to object to the answer 23 not being responsive.

24 THE COURT: You asked the question. She 25 answered it. Let's go to something else.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 90 1 BY MR. MERRETT:

2 Q Now, you and these other people, you and 3 Mr. Colton and these other two fellas stood across the 4 sidewalk with your arms extended out to your sides;

5 correct?

6 A For part of the time, yes.

7 Q You were deliberately blocking the sidewalk;

8 correct?

9 A We were attempting to stop them from getting in 10 the way of the Scientologists, yes.

11 Q You were deliberately blocking the sidewalk;

12 correct?

13 A No, because they walked through us.

14 Q Okay. Your intent was to block the sidewalk;

15 correct?

16 A Our intent was to stop them from standing in 17 from of the Scientologist getting off the bus and 18 going into -- 19 Q Ma'am, your intent was to prevent people from 20 passing north and south along the sidewalk, correct?

21 A No, as they still managed to get through. They 22 still were able -- 23 Q Please listen to the question.

24 THE COURT: Time out people. I'm in 25 here. Here is what I want. Here is what we're ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 91 1 going to do. You ask your question. Listen to 2 the question, but pause a minute, please. And 3 the reason I'm asking you to do that is to give 4 Mr. Pope a chance to object if he wants to 5 object to the question. Now, if you don't hear 6 Mr. Pope then be sure you in your mind 7 understand the question, then answer it as 8 succinctly and as truthfully as possible.

9 Okay. And then we'll just move along. Now -- 10 but give him a chance to ask the whole 11 question. Because, you know, these are 12 lawyers, they may get tricky with you, listen 13 to the whole question, okay?

14 THE WITNESS: Okay.

15 THE COURT: All right, now. Then, wait 16 a minute, let's give this other lawyer a chance 17 to do something.

18 THE WITNESS: Okay.

19 THE COURT: Then you answer.

20 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

21 THE COURT: All right. Now the ground 22 rules clear?

23 MR. MERRETT: Yes.

24 THE COURT: Move on.

25 BY MR. MERRETT:

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 92 1 Q You and the three people who were with you were 2 standing on the sidewalk in front of the Ft. Harrison 3 with your arms extended out to the side; correct?

4 A Correct.

5 Q And had you accomplished what you intended by 6 doing that -- 7 A No.

8 Q -- you would have blocked people from moving 9 north and south on Ft. Harrison on the sidewalk;

10 correct?

11 MR. POPE: Objection. He is asking her 12 hypothetical question about what might have 13 occurred.

14 MR. MERRETT: Your Honor, the witness is 15 at least pretending not -- 16 THE COURT: Give her a chance to answer.

17 Let's see what -- do you understand his 18 question?

19 THE WITNESS: No. I mean, we didn't 20 hold hands so it would stop anyone from getting 21 through. We had our arms raised and not even 22 up shoulder length. We had them sort of raised 23 a little to impede, not to stop. It was to 24 slow them down so people could get off the bus 25 and go through, because they were walking in ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 93 1 front of the bus and stopping people, and 2 people were getting confused. People stood on 3 the bus afraid to get off of the bus. And we 4 had to tell them when it was clear. So we had 5 raised our arms, but we didn't, people walked 6 through. Stacy walked through, several people 7 walked through.

8 BY MR. MERRETT:

9 Q My question, again, please listen very closely, 10 what you were trying to do is to keep people from 11 passing on the sidewalk north and south; correct?

12 A No.

13 Q So it was okay with you if people walked back 14 and forth north and south while the buses were 15 unloading?

16 A If they -- if they stayed out of the way.

17 Well, I never put it -- I never thought of it through 18 that way.

19 Q Okay. Let me make sure I understand. You were 20 standing across the sidewalk with your arms extended 21 out to the side but you don't know why?

22 A No, we were trying to impede or slow down, 23 because as the bus came in the protesters stood right 24 in front, or gathered right in front of the mini buses 25 and buses, so by putting our hands up they had to slow ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 94 1 down the walk or stop temporarily until people could 2 get off and on.

3 Q And you were standing lined up from the 4 sideboard of the van, correct?

5 A We moved around, depending on -- 6 Q When you were blocking the sidewalk you were 7 standing there with your arms out, you were lined up 8 across the sidewalk from the sideboard of the van 9 toward the front of the Ft. Harrison?

10 A Sometimes, yes.

11 Q Where else did you -- where else did you stand 12 with your arms out trying to get people from going 13 outside?

14 A Sometimes I was closer to the doors of the Ft.

15 Harrison. I wouldn't be next to the bus. It all 16 depended on who was standing where when the buses 17 parked.

18 Q Did anybody other than the four of you who were 19 being paid by Scientology stand there with their arms 20 out to try to impede people from passing up and down 21 the sidewalk?

22 A No.

23 THE JUDGE: Hold on. Watch her. Just 24 watch her hands. I can tell she was getting 25 behind. And if those hands are going real ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 95 1 fast, slow down a little bit. Okay. Go ahead.

2 BY MR. MERRETT:

3 Q You have said several times that the protesters 4 congregated around the van. What part of the van did 5 they congregate around?

6 A From the front of the bus to the back of the 7 bus, because some of the buses had doors that let 8 people off at the front and some had two doors.

9 Q Uh-uh. Okay. I should have asked you this 10 earlier, let me ask you if you said in paragraph four 11 of your affidavit, quote, I put my arms out to stop 12 the picketers from going past me. That is what you 13 were doing; right?

14 A To slow them down, yeah.

15 Q Well, to stop them from going past?

16 A Right.

17 Q Isn't that what you said?

18 A Yes.

19 Q When were you contacted and asked to be out 20 there?

21 A On July 24.

22 Q So on July 24th you were asked to be there on 23 the evening of July 28th?

24 A No, no. July 24 I was asked to be there all 25 week.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 96 1 Q And who contacted you?

2 A Geitzen and Associates.

3 Q Who?

4 A Another private investigator association.

5 Q Who?

6 A Geitzen.

7 Q Spell that, please?

8 A G-e-i-t-z-e-n, I believe.

9 Q Where are they located?

10 A Tampa, Florida.

11 THE COURT: Let me see. I'm confused 12 here. I thought earlier you said you were 13 hired by a law firm?

14 THE WITNESS: Geitzen & Associates were 15 the ones to make the call for me. He asked me 16 when I was contacted and they called me and 17 asked me to go down to the Church. And then I 18 spoke to them down at Ft. Harrison or Cleveland 19 Street.

20 THE JUDGE: Spoke to whom?

21 THE WITNESS: I believe her name was 22 Helena from Moxon and Corbin.

23 THE COURT: So, you were contacted by 24 another private detective agency rather than by 25 a law firm?

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 97 1 THE WITNESS: Correct, because Geitzen 2 Associates was also doing work for them.

3 BY MR. MERRETT:

4 Q Did you -- have you ever met Mr. Moxon?

5 A Yes -- well, I guess he has been in court 6 today. But I don't know him.

7 Q Okay. Let me ask you the question again. Have 8 you ever met Mr. Moxon?

9 A No.

10 Q Have you ever had a conversation?

11 A Yes.

12 Q When was that?

13 A Just a few minutes ago.

14 Q He was there on the night of the 28th; correct?

15 A Yes, he was.

16 Q He was standing just inside of the door of the 17 Ft. Harrison; correct?

18 A I don't know. I was outside.

19 Q How do you know he was there?

20 A Because the protesters gathered around him in a 21 tight circle and he stepped out on the steps of the 22 Ft. Harrison.

23 Q How many?

24 A How many protesters?

25 Q Uh-huh.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 98 1 A Probably four or five of them. We were 2 watching the -- we didn't know until the noise level 3 gathered. But they were shouting at him.

4 Q What were they shouting?

5 A Something about his daughter.

6 Q How many of them were shouting at him?

7 A I have no idea. It was the noise level.

8 Q More than one?

9 A Yes.

10 Q More than one person shouting about his 11 daughter?

12 A Shouting things.

13 Q What were the other things that were shouted?

14 A I didn't pay attention to it because I wasn't 15 there -- I didn't know who the gentleman was they were 16 surrounding until after the fact.

17 Q At the time that you say Ms. Brooks pushed you, 18 where was your husband standing in relation to you?

19 A He was across from me.

20 THE COURT: He was what?

21 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. He was across 22 from me.

23 THE COURT: Speak up now. I don't think 24 that lady back there can hear you, because I 25 couldn't hear you. And everybody has to hear ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 99 1 now, this is a public courtroom, very famous 2 case, I already told you that.

3 BY MR. MERRETT:

4 Q So you were standing facing toward the 5 Presbyterian Church; correct?

6 A Correct.

7 Q And your husband was in front of you; correct?

8 A Slightly diagonal, correct.

9 Q He was between you and the Presbyterian Church?

10 A Yes.

11 Q And Ms. Brooks shoved you and then went past 12 you and shoved him?

13 A Yes.

14 Q Okay. I don't have any anything further.

15 THE COURT: Okay. Mr. Howie?

16 MR. HOWIE: Nothing further, Your Honor.

17 THE COURT: Redirect?

18 MR. POPE: I just have one question.

19 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 20 BY MR. POPE:

21 Q Mr. Merrett was quoting, I believe, from 22 paragraph four of your affidavit in the sentence, "I 23 put my arms up to stop the picketers from going past 24 me while people were getting out of and into the 25 vans"; correct?

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 100 1 A Correct.

2 Q He didn't quote this part of it too, "This did 3 not deter the picketers who kept pushing past me and 4 other security personal in an abusive fashion";

5 correct?

6 A Correct.

7 MR. POPE: Thank you.

8 THE COURT: Anything?

9 MR. HOWIE: Nothing further.

10 THE JUDGE: Can we now -- can we excuse 11 her?

12 MR. MERRETT: Yes, Your Honor.

13 THE COURT: Don't want to keep her on 14 the recall?

15 Ma'am, you're excused. That means you 16 can leave the courthouse. You can come back in 17 the courtroom and sit in here. Do whatever you 18 would like, but I'm releasing you from the rule 19 that was invoked, okay?

20 THE WITNESS: Okay. Thank you, sir.

21 THE COURT: Step down.

22 Let's take a short break. Take about 23 five.

24 (THEREUPON A FIVE MINUTE RECESS WAS TAKEN AND THE 25 PROCEEDINGS CONTINUED AS FOLLOWS:) ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 101 1 THE COURT: Call your next witness, 2 please, sir.

3 MR. POPE: Call Spencer Lowrey.

4 THE COURT: All right. Let's go ahead.

5 DIRECT EXAMINATION 6 BY MR. POPE:

7 Q Tell us your name, please, sir.

8 A Spencer Lowrey.

9 Q Your address, Mr. Lowrey?

10 A 551 North Saturn.

11 Q What city?

12 A Clearwater, Florida.

13 Q Your occupation?

14 A Security guard.

15 Q For whom?

16 A Church of Scientology, Flag Service 17 Organization.

18 Q How long have you had that position?

19 A Approximately three years, little more.

20 Q Are you also a member of the Church?

21 A Yes, I am.

22 Q Were you present in front of the Ft. Harrison 23 on July 26, 2000?

24 A Yes.

25 Q Were you present in front of the Ft. Harrison ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 102 1 Hotel on July 28, 2000?

2 A Yes.

3 Q Were you present in front of the Ft. Harrison 4 Hotel on September 2, 2000?

5 A Yes.

6 Q Did you on those days videotape the events you 7 saw occurring in front of the Ft. Harrison Hotel?

8 A Yes, I did.

9 Q Let me show you, if I may, may I approach?

10 THE COURT: Certainly. Go ahead.

11 BY MR. POPE:

12 Q I have got three videotapes. I have numbered 13 them 3, 4 and 5. One says Ft. Harrison, July 26.

14 Number 4, says Ft. Harrison, July 28th. And number 5 15 says, Ft. Harrison, September 2, 2000.

16 Are you familiar with the tapes?

17 A Yes, I am.

18 Q Are those from the videotaping that you did on 19 those dates?

20 A Yes. I watched them. They're accurate.

21 Q You watched the contents of those tapes?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Are those videotapes fair and accurate 24 representations of the events you observed on the 25 dates in question?

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 103 1 A Yes, they are.

2 MR. POPE: Your Honor, I offer them into 3 evidence.

4 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION 5 MR. HOWIE: If I may, Your Honor.

6 BY MR. HOWIE:

7 Q Sir, I take it that these are strict -- these 8 videotapes, 3, 4 and 5 are strictly excerpts of the 9 tapes that you took; correct?

10 A Right.

11 Q That is these tapes that have been placed or 12 offered into evidence are simply portions of larger, 13 longer tapes that you yourself took these three 14 nights; correct?

15 A Yeah.

16 Q And did you take any part in editing these 17 tapes to create these three videos?

18 A No.

19 Q Do you know who did?

20 A No.

21 Q And when you say you have had a chance to 22 review these tapes, are you talking about these three 23 tapes that are before you today as being offered in 24 evidence?

25 A The night I saw them.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 104 1 Q And do you know where the originals of these 2 videotapes are?

3 A No.

4 Q Do you have any knowledge who you turned these 5 videotapes over to when you were finished videotaping?

6 A Yes, I do.

7 Q Who did you turn that over to?

8 A My security chief.

9 Q Who is your security chief?

10 A Paul Kellerhals.

11 Q Do you have any personal knowledge as to who 12 actually did the editing of these videotapes?

13 A No.

14 Q Thank you. I don't have any further questions.

15 THE COURT: Mr. Merrett.

16 MR. MERRETT: If I can have just a 17 second?

18 THE COURT: You can have it.

19 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION 20 BY MR. MERRETT:

21 Q Did you make any marks, and I'm talking here 22 about the actual physical objects that are in front of 23 the witness stand, did you make any marks on them?

24 A Did I make any marks?

25 Q On the boxes, on the plastic boxes or labels?

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 105 1 A No, I didn't.

2 MR. MERRETT: May I approach, Your 3 Honor?

4 THE COURT: Certainly. Certainly.

5 Certainly.

6 BY MR. MERRETT:

7 Q Were the numbers on the tapes, on the mark, 8 excuse me. The label on the spine when you reviewed 9 the tape?

10 A I didn't hear that, sorry.

11 Q The numbers there on the labels on the spines 12 of the tapes, were they there when you reviewed the 13 tapes?

14 A I watched them. I watched the tape being put 15 in and I saw the numbers there.

16 MR. POPE: Your Honor, let me -- I put 17 those numbers on there today just for 18 identification purposes, the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

19 THE COURT: Let the record so reflect.

20 BY MR. MERRETT:

21 Q You don't know if those are the tapes that you 22 previously reviewed, correct?

23 A They're exactly the same that I reviewed. I 24 could watch them again and tell you.

25 Q Let me ask you, other than the numbers that ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 106 1 Mr. Pope said he put on there, these look exactly like 2 that, right?

3 A Right.

4 Q So you don't know which ones are which?

5 A Well, the ones he had.

6 MR. MERRETT: I don't have anything 7 further on voir dire.

8 MR. POPE: For the record, I sent 9 counsel an exact copy of the five tapes that I 10 am using in this matter a week ago. They are 11 exactly the same.

12 THE COURT: Okay.

13 MR. POPE: Your Honor, we can -- I 14 can -- what I would like to do to speed this 15 thing up is have him on standby because I want 16 to publish these tapes. I offered them into 17 evidence. I guess we need to get a ruling on 18 that.

19 MR. MERRETT: That was the point. I 20 think we probably need to make our objection.

21 THE COURT: Make it.

22 MR. MERRETT: I assume Mr. Howie is 23 going to make objection based on best evidence, 24 since the issue addressed by the exhibits is 25 the contents of the exhibits themselves. They ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 107 1 are uneqivocally shown to be unoriginal in the 2 absence of the original not accounted for or 3 reasonably explained. This individual had no 4 participation in the creation of these second 5 or third or tenth or fifteenth generation 6 tapes. Secondly, they're not authenticated 7 because the witness is unable to attest to the 8 items which are being offered in evidence as 9 the items that he previously reviewed, 10 therefore we object.

11 MR. HOWIE: Mr. Merrett has made my 12 objection for me. Thank you.

13 MR. POPE: Your Honor, the witness has 14 testified that these tapes are fair and 15 accurate representations of what he saw and 16 filmed on the dates in question. That is the 17 only predicate that is necessary for the 18 admissibility of one of these tapes. Anything 19 else just goes to the weight you want to give 20 it.

21 THE COURT: You filmed the events that 22 these tapes are going to show; is that correct?

23 THE WITNESS: That's correct, Your 24 Honor.

25 THE COURT: All right. And have you ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 108 1 viewed these tapes that are being offered into 2 evidence today?

3 THE WITNESS: Yes, I have.

4 THE COURT: How many times?

5 THE WITNESS: Twice. I think one of 6 them was twice, the other one probably one 7 time.

8 THE COURT: What are the tapes going to 9 show?

10 THE WITNESS: They're going to show, one 11 of them has a lot of police cars and police 12 officers outside of the Ft. Harrison with 13 picketers walking back and forth. And, I mean, 14 that is what I have. And one of them has vans 15 trying to pull up where picketers are 16 preventing the vans from pulling up. It's kind 17 of obvious that there's traffic being stopped.

18 One of them is where we're having a wedding.

19 THE COURT: A what?

20 THE WITNESS: There was a wedding 21 occurring. Right in front of the Ft. Harrison 22 there is a limousine and some important people 23 in the wedding, I presume it was the bride and 24 the bride's father, is what it looked like, 25 were trying to exit the vehicle so the ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 109 1 picketers are in the way, giving them a hard 2 time, making derogatory comments and so forth.

3 It is pretty clear.

4 THE COURT: You can hear the comments?

5 THE WITNESS: Some of them. Yeah, on 6 the tape.

7 THE COURT: And this is a true and fair 8 representation of what you saw?

9 THE WITNESS: It is accurate, accurate 10 representation of what I saw.

11 THE COURT: I'm going to let him answer 12 and I'll give them the weight I feel they 13 deserve. Counsel?

14 MR. MERRETT: Your Honor, if I may, I 15 ask the petitioner be required to produce the 16 entire unedited videotape before anything is 17 received in evidence, specifically the doctored 18 exhibit.

19 MR. POPE: May I respond to that, Your 20 Honor?

21 THE COURT: Yeah, please.

22 MR. POPE: This is not a doctored 23 exhibit. It is an excerpt from a tape they 24 have. If they wanted these tapes I'll be happy 25 to give them the original. All they had to do ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 110 1 is serve a request for production and they 2 could have them. They didn't do it. I gave 3 them the stuff that we're going to use today as 4 a matter of -- 5 THE COURT: Here is what I'm going do.

6 I'm going to allow these into evidence, we're 7 going to review those today, and I'm going 8 request by five o'clock tomorrow you put the 9 original in the Court record.

10 MR. POPE: Fine.

11 THE COURT: Originals, with nothing 12 missing.

13 MR. POPE: The whole -- 14 THE COURT: To the best of your ability.

15 MR. POPE: Fine. Fine. Fine. Well, 16 Your Honor, the evidence code, basically 17 vitiated the best evidence rule because, 18 although 90.952 deals with it, duplicates are 19 fully admissible.

20 THE COURT: Put them in. Duplicate 21 maybe, but doctored, I don't like the word 22 doctored.

23 MR. POPE: Missing parts may be not.

24 May I quote from this here?

25 THE COURT: I wish you would.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 111 1 MR. POPE: Ehrhart (phonetic) On 2 evidence, 401 -- 3 THE COURT: My copy is in the other 4 room. Go ahead, I'm not going to take time to 5 get it.

6 MR. POPE: Tapes or films may be edited 7 so long as they are true and accurate 8 representation. He has testified that these 9 are true and accurate representation.

10 THE COURT: Thank you. Look, we're 11 going to move on. We're going to put these in.

12 But just for the record, if you have the 13 others -- 14 MR. POPE: We'll put them in, Your 15 Honor.

16 THE COURT: Thank you.

17 MR. HOWIE: Your Honor, my response to 18 that is true and accurate means complete, and 19 we -- 20 THE COURT: Okay. All right. Hold on.

21 Hold on. Just a minute. Let's go ahead, 22 please. Proceed.

23 MR. POPE: Your Honor, here is the tape 24 in evidence, 3, 4 and 5.

25 THE COURT: The one you have Number 3 on ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 112 1 will be Number 4 in evidence. Because of the, 2 the one other document.

3 All right. And the one that is marked 4 Number 4 will be Number 5 in evidence.

5 Okay, and Number 6 is going to be your, 6 the one you had that is Number 5, in fact, I 7 can do this better.

8 Number 4, Petitioner's 4 dated July, in 9 other words, the tape thing here says July 26, 10 2000. All right. Number 5 says July 28, 2000.

11 And Number 6 is -- and Number 6 is dated 12 September 2nd year 2000. Okay, they're in 13 evidence. Move them along.

14 MR. POPE: All right. I just have one 15 follow up question for the witness, Your Honor.

16 THE COURT: Please proceed.

17 BY MR. POPE:

18 Q With respect to the wedding that occurred on 19 September 2, 2000, was that a group of Scientologists 20 having a wedding?

21 A No, it wasn't.

22 Q Non-Scientologists, non-Scientologists.

23 THE COURT: But they were going into the 24 hotel? They were having a wedding in the 25 hotel.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 113 1 THE WITNESS: Correct.

2 THE COURT: Okay. You all rent out 3 space for weddings and things like that, 4 receptions.

5 THE WITNESS: Uh-huh, yeah. And the 6 actual wedding itself.

7 THE COURT: Okay. Please proceed.

8 CROSS-EXAMINATION 9 BY MR. HOWIE:

10 Q Sir, when you were -- you indicated that one of 11 these videotapes show police cars and a police line in 12 the area of just, just for purposes of clarification, 13 which date was that, please?

14 A I don't remember which video is which, but it 15 was one of those.

16 Q You do recall the video that I'm referring to 17 in which the videotape depicts a line of police 18 outside of the Ft. Harrison at night time as well as a 19 number of police cars; correct?

20 A Uh-huh.

21 Q And what was your purpose in taking that 22 particular video?

23 A My purpose in taking the video is just to 24 document what happened.

25 Q And under whose direction did you take that ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 114 1 video?

2 A Security chief, I mean that is all.

3 Q And he directed you to go out and operate your 4 video camera?

5 A Yeah, that is my job.

6 MR. MERRETT: Excuse me. Counsel for 7 petitioner appears to be signaling the witness 8 nodding the head with affirmative answers 9 sometimes. I wonder if they can be admonished.

10 MR. POPE: That is the biggest bunch of 11 balderdash that I have ever heard. When I'm 12 sitting down here I can not see the witness, 13 anything but his forehead, and I was not -- 14 THE COURT: Thank you. Thank you 15 gentlemen. Gentlemen. Look. Mr. Pope, 16 Mr. Merrett, Mr. Howie. I don't know what your 17 Martin-Dale Hubble ratings are, I would be 18 shocked and all if they weren't A,B for all of 19 you. You all have a lot of good credibility in 20 my court and this little bit of knit picking, 21 let's cut it out. Let's go on with it. I 22 respect you all too much, please.

23 MR. MERRETT: If I may, you omitted 24 Mr. Hurt's part and that was part of my 25 objection.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 115 1 THE COURT: He was one of them. He was 2 one of them, well, I don't know him that well, 3 so my point being I'm going to ask everybody, 4 please, use your best poker face and best poker 5 hand in here. I'll try to do the same, and 6 let's just move right along.

7 MR. HURT: Just for the record. I was 8 not signaling to the witness in any way, Your 9 Honor.

10 THE WITNESS: I didn't even see him.

11 THE COURT: Hey, hey.

12 THE WITNESS: Sorry.

13 THE COURT: I didn't ask for anything 14 from anybody. Maybe I pushed this a little too 15 far today. Let's go ahead, please. Mr. Howie.

16 MR. HOWIE: May it please the Court.

17 THE COURT: Please. Go ahead.

18 BY MR. HOWIE:

19 Q Sir, you also described the videotape in which 20 you described a wedding, taking a film while that was 21 out in front of the Ft. Harrison; correct?

22 A That's correct.

23 Q And the video in part depicts at least part of 24 a large white limousine in that video; correct?

25 A Uh-huh.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 116 1 Q And if you could say yes or no, for the record, 2 please?

3 A Yes, it does.

4 THE COURT: Thank you.

5 BY MR. HOWIE:

6 Q And the white limousine that you filmed in that 7 video, the limousine was in fact part on the sidewalk 8 in front of the Ft. Harrison; correct?

9 A The drive up, or whatever you want to call it, 10 yeah.

11 Q From your observations, while you were there 12 taking the video that day in which this white 13 limousine is depicted, were there any Clearwater 14 Police Officers or law enforcement officer in the 15 immediate vicinity of that place where you were?

16 A No.

17 MR. HOWIE: Thank you. No further 18 questions.

19 THE COURT: Mr. Howie, thank you.

20 Mr. Merrett.

21 MR. MERRETT: I'll defer cross 22 examination until publication of the video.

23 THE COURT: You going to publish it now?

24 MR. POPE: I have a very brief non-video 25 witness I would like to put him on and then ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 117 1 publish. He can stand by.

2 THE COURT: Okay. We'll break just a 3 minute. I'll take a witness out of order, so 4 to speak. Here is what I want you to do. I'm 5 going to let you get off the stand a minute, go 6 out there in the hall and relax, do whatever.

7 Don't talk about -- remember what I asked you 8 not to do.

9 THE WITNESS: I won't talk about it.

10 THE COURT: I'm going to bring you back 11 and ask you to, um, tell me what is going on on 12 the video, or something, or be here when the 13 video is shown, okay? Take a break. You can 14 go back out there and they're going to call 15 somebody else. Thank you.

16 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

17 THE COURT: Mr. Pope, who do you call?

18 MR. POPE: Call Magnus Carlsson.

19 THE COURT: Magnus Carlsson. Thank you.

20 Mr. Pope, please proceed.

21 DIRECT EXAMINATION 22 BY MR. POPE:

23 Q Please tell us your name.

24 A Magnus Carlsson.

25 Q Your address, sir?

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 118 1 A 210 South Ft. Harrison.

2 Q What city?

3 A Clearwater, Florida.

4 Q What is your occupation?

5 A I'm a security guard.

6 Q For whom?

7 A Church of Scientology.

8 Q How long have you been in that position?

9 A About five years.

10 Q Are you a member of the Church?

11 A Yes, sir.

12 Q I'm going to call your attention to August 23 13 and 24, 2000. On that date did you observe an 14 unauthorized person enter the garage at the Ft.

15 Harrison?

16 A Yes, I did.

17 Q Where were you positioned at the time?

18 A In my booth. In the garage.

19 Q Who was this person?

20 A Tory Bezazian.

21 THE COURT: Who? Bezazian, 22 B-E-Z-A-Z-I-A-N. Okay. The way it is spelled.

23 Okay. Go ahead.

24 BY MR. POPE:

25 Q What is her connection with the McPhearson ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 119 1 corporation?

2 MR. MERRETT: Objection, competence.

3 THE COURT: Rephrase, well -- 4 MR. POPE: We'll go ahead, Your Honor.

5 She -- this Ms. Bezazian is one of the 6 persons -- 7 THE COURT: Don't testify. Rephrase 8 your question.

9 MR. POPE: I will move on to the next 10 issue.

11 THE COURT: I'll get a wrath of 12 objections you start testifying now. I don't 13 blame them.

14 BY MR. POPE:

15 Q Tell us what happened on August the 23rd?

16 A Okay. Ms. Tory Bezazian drives into the garage 17 very high speed. I go out to find out what she is 18 doing, because she drives in, backs up, drives away 19 and takes off full speed.

20 Q That was the event on the 23rd?

21 A That was the event on the 23rd.

22 Q What happened on the 24th?

23 A 24th she comes back in again. This time I go 24 out and she is a little bit slower when she backs up 25 so I have time to go up and talk to her, tell her she ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 120 1 is trespassing and she needs to leave.

2 Q And the response?

3 A First she seems like she pretends she doesn't 4 hear me, because she turns down the music, which she 5 is playing very loud. And I tell her, again, you're 6 trespassing, you need to leave. She laughs and tells 7 me, oh, I'm so afraid honey. And then she takes off.

8 THE COURT: I'm sorry, she said what?

9 THE WITNESS: She kind of smiles and 10 laughs at me and says, I'm so afraid honey.

11 And takes off full speed.

12 THE COURT: I'm so afraid honey?

13 THE WITNESS: Yeah, honey.

14 MR. POPE: That is all I have.

15 THE COURT: Mr. Howie.

16 MR. HOWIE: No questions, Your Honor.

17 THE COURT: Mr. Merrett.

18 CROSS-EXAMINATION 19 BY MR. MERRETT:

20 Q How fast is full speed in miles per hour?

21 A Miles per hour? Well, to be in a garage full 22 speed is thirty miles an hour, I guess, I don't know.

23 Q Thirty miles an hour?

24 A Yeah, it is pretty fast.

25 Q Your testimony is that automobile can ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 121 1 accelerate 30 miles an hour from the midpoint of the 2 garage ramp to the sidewalk and stop; is that correct?

3 A I didn't get the question.

4 Q Are you testifying she was able to accelerate 5 within the garage at thirty miles an hour and then 6 stop at the sidewalk?

7 A I didn't testify anything about that.

8 Q She did stop at the sidewalk; is that right?

9 A Possibly, yeah.

10 Q You saw the whole thing, didn't you?

11 A Yes, I did.

12 Q She stopped at the sidewalk?

13 A Right before she took off.

14 Q Both days; right?

15 A Correct.

16 Q And you're testifying that she was going thirty 17 miles an hour?

18 A I'm not saying that. She was just going fast.

19 Q Fast?

20 A Uh-huh.

21 Q How fast is fast if it is not thirty miles an 22 hour?

23 A I'm not sure.

24 Q You don't know?

25 A That is right.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 122 1 Q So full speed is just a phrase that you threw 2 in there?

3 A Yeah, like -- like it was fast, faster than a 4 normal vehicle.

5 Q When did you first meet the individual who was 6 in this vehicle?

7 A I haven't met her.

8 Q When did you first see a photograph of her?

9 A I'm not sure.

10 Q Who showed you a photograph of her?

11 A Paul Kellerhals.

12 Q And when was that?

13 A Probably few weeks before.

14 Q Few weeks before August 23 or 24?

15 A (Witness indicates affirmatively.)

16 Q And you have never met her, you don't know who 17 she is?

18 A Yeah, I know who she is.

19 Q Because of what somebody else told you?

20 A That's correct.

21 Q And what were the circumstances under which you 22 were shown this photograph?

23 A In the course of my duties of security guard I 24 need to know she works for LMT.

25 Q He showed you a photograph and says, this is ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 123 1 somebody you need to know about?

2 A That's correct.

3 Q Who else did he show you photographs of at that 4 time?

5 A No one.

6 Q It was just a photograph of her?

7 A (Witness indicates affirmatively.)

8 Q What brought her up?

9 A Because she is part of the trust, that is all.

10 Q Now, you said a few weeks, is that six weeks?

11 Eight weeks? Twelve weeks? How long was it before 12 August?

13 A Three weeks probably.

14 Q So around the first of August?

15 A I guess.

16 Q What did the photograph look like.

17 A She was a female, white, her height, you know, 18 she had blond hair. That is about all.

19 Q Would you think that would describe about 18 20 percent of the population of Clearwater, blond hair, 21 white woman?

22 A Yeah, it was white woman, whatever.

23 Q You -- 24 THE COURT: How did you come up with 18 25 percent?

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 124 1 MR. MERRETT: It is just a guess, Judge.

2 THE COURT: Okay. I mean you're not 3 comparing us to San Diego?

4 MR. MERRETT: We start at fifty and work 5 backwards.

6 THE COURT: Okay. Can't you see that in 7 the paper. Attorney says Clearwater has a 8 bunch of ditzy blonds.

9 MR. MERRETT: I didn't say ditzy. I say 10 well educated and scholarly.

11 THE COURT: Move on.

12 BY MR. MERRETT:

13 Q Now, you said she was trespassing in the 14 garage, right, and that property, that is reserved for 15 members of the Church of Scientology; correct?

16 A That is right.

17 Q Now you're aware that Tory Bezazian is an 18 OT-VII; right?

19 A Uh-huh.

20 THE COURT: What?

21 BY MR. MERRETT:

22 Q Operating Thaten, Level 7; correct?

23 A Perhaps.

24 Q Well you just said -- 25 A I'm not aware of that at all.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 125 1 Q Why did you say uh-huh when I asked you?

2 A Because I was just answering what you were 3 saying. I don't know what you're talking about.

4 Q Have you ever seen an SP declare on Tory 5 Bezazian.

6 THE COURT: I'm sorry, what is that, 7 Operative Thetan VII?

8 A It may be apt translation. It is Thetan.

9 T-H-E-T-A-N, operating Thetan, Roman numeral 7.

10 THE COURT: So what is a judge?

11 MR. MERRETT: Good question. You may 12 hear evidence about what a judge is.

13 THE COURT: Go ahead.

14 BY MR. MERRETT:

15 Q Have you ever seen SP declare on Tory Bezazian.

16 None of these people can help you answer. You need to 17 look at me.

18 A I'm looking at you. Yes, I have.

19 Q Have you seen that within the last two weeks;

20 correct?

21 A No.

22 Q When did you see it?

23 A Maybe a month ago or something.

24 Q Maybe a month ago, this being -- this is 25 November 1st, you saw it around the first part of ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 126 1 October?

2 A (Witness indicates affirmatively.)

3 Q Is that correct?

4 A Somewhere around there, yeah.

5 Q And it was issued in late September, early 6 October; correct?

7 A (Witness indicates affirmatively.) Yeah, seems 8 to be correct, I guess.

9 Q And obviously you don't do, the Church wasn't 10 doing SP declare on somebody unless they're a member 11 of the Church and they're being cut out; is that 12 correct?

13 A Well, I didn't ask for that, you do.

14 Q But you have never seen one on anybody who 15 wasn't a member of the church?

16 A I haven't seen what?

17 Q One on anyone who was not a member of the 18 church?

19 A That's correct.

20 Q So, if you saw an SP declare on Tory Bezazian 21 you know up until the declare was issued she was a 22 member of the church, correct, because they only 23 declare members?

24 A I don't know what you mean.

25 Q Sir, didn't you just testify that it is correct ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 127 1 the only people to whom an SP declare is ever directed 2 are members of the church?

3 A That is right.

4 Q And you saw an SP declare that had been issued 5 at the end of September or early October for Tory 6 Bezazian; correct?

7 A Correct.

8 Q Therefore she was a member of the church up 9 until the church began?

10 A You can say it again?

11 Q That means she was among the church and among 12 the class people allowed to go into the garage in 13 August; correct?

14 A No, because she had already -- no, no.

15 Q But the SP declare wasn't issued until a month 16 later; correct?

17 A That could be true, yeah.

18 Q So you want to know what could be true, could 19 be true you made it up, it wasn't issued until the 20 month later; correct?

21 A It is probably correct, yeah.

22 MR. MERRETT: I don't have anything 23 further.

24 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Howie? That 25 do anything for you? You want to ask ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 128 1 questions.

2 MR. HOWIE: It does a lot for me, but I 3 have no questions.

4 THE COURT: Thank you for being honest.

5 All right. And Mr. Pope, sir, you want 6 redirect?

7 MR. POPE: No further questions, Your 8 Honor.

9 THE COURT: Okay, sir. Now is he 10 excused?

11 MR. POPE: As far as I'm concerned.

12 MR. MERRETT: Yes.

13 THE COURT: Sir, you are free to go, 14 you're free to come back and sit in here if you 15 want to and thank you for coming.

16 THE WITNESS: Thank you, sir.

17 THE COURT: Have a good day.

18 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

19 THE COURT: Now let's do this, do we 20 want to call Spencer Lowrey back?

21 MR. POPE: Well, we should, probably, 22 and then publish the tapes.

23 THE COURT: Okay. Do you want to do 24 one, or a whole bunch at once?

25 MR. POPE: We could put Mr. Lowrey on ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 129 1 the stand, publish the tapes, and he can be 2 subject to questioning.

3 THE COURT: Let's do that; that all 4 right?

5 MR. MERRETT: Can we take five before we 6 do that?

7 THE COURT: You have your five. Go.

8 (THEREUPON THERE WAS A FIVE MINUTE RECESS AND THE 9 PROCEEDINGS CONTINUED AS FOLLOWS:) 10 THE COURT: Is he back? Get him back.

11 And here are these. We'll go ahead and get 12 these down here.

13 MR. POPE: Your Honor, as he is 14 preparing to put that in there, if he would go 15 ahead and get it ready. I wanted to make one 16 request.

17 THE COURT: Go do it.

18 MR. POPE: That is, with respect to the 19 production of the original videos the testimony 20 was that the September 16 video original is in 21 the custody of Clearwater Police Department.

22 THE COURT: Then I have to back off 23 that.

24 MR. POPE: But the others we have the 25 July 16, 18 and September 2 we can file.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 130 1 THE COURT: Here is what I'm going to 2 do. Please file those. The one that is in the 3 possession of the police officer, if and when 4 you ever get that back from the police 5 officer -- 6 MR. POPE: We have a copy of it, but we 7 don't have the original.

8 THE COURT: Well when you get the 9 original, if you ever do, I don't know if you 10 ever will once it goes to the police. I don't 11 know about that. But if you do, file it.

12 MR. POPE: And I have one other request.

13 That is if the Respondent intends to utilize 14 videotapes they be put under the same rule.

15 THE COURT: They will be.

16 MR. POPE: They should produce copies to 17 me for review in advance of any other 18 proceedings and they should produce the 19 originals to the Court.

20 THE COURT: Well, what is good for one 21 is good for the other, and we always do that.

22 Please, listen to me, folks. The clients 23 couldn't have gone and gotten better attorneys 24 if they tried harder. Now, you all know -- I'm 25 not saying anymore. Let's go on.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 131 1 MR. POPE: Your Honor, I propose to play 2 the first videotape, publish it.

3 THE COURT: Please, sir. And he may 4 step down there. So, Mr. Lowrey, go ahead and 5 step down so you can see it. Everybody can 6 move. I don't care how you do it, move.

7 MR. POPE: You can come over this way.

8 (THEREUPON THE VIDEOTAPE OF JULY 26TH, 2000 WAS 9 PUBLISHED.)

10 THE COURT: What was the date of that?

11 MR. POPE: July 26.

12 THE COURT: Thank you. The next one is 13 July the 28.

14 (THEREUPON THE VIDEOTAPE OF JULY 28, 2000 WAS 15 PUBLISHED.)

16 THE COURT: That was July -- what was 17 date?

18 MR. POPE: 28.

19 THE COURT: 28.

20 MR. POPE: And the final tape is the 21 September.

22 THE COURT: Any questions of this 23 witness, regarding the video, Mr. Howie?

24 MR. HOWIE: Your Honor, I have none.

25 MR. MERRETT: May I have some?

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 132 1 THE COURT: You may proceed, sir.

2 CROSS-EXAMINATION 3 BY MR. MERRETT:

4 Q Let me ask you first, Mr. Lowrey, on the July 5 28 video, there were police vehicles both north and 6 south of the loading zone on Ft. Harrison Avenue;

7 correct?

8 A I don't recall if there was any south. I know 9 there were north.

10 Q Didn't you testify an hour or so ago that the 11 reason the videos were accurate was because you 12 recognized what was in them?

13 A That's correct.

14 Q Are you telling me you don't remember what is 15 in this?

16 A That is not what I said. I don't recall which 17 vehicles. I don't know which loading zone you're 18 referring to, I guess.

19 Q I can see where that might be mysterious. The 20 loading zone directly in front of the front door to 21 Ft. Harrison where the vans pull up. Is it correct 22 that on July the 28 there were police vehicles in the 23 right-hand lane, southbound on Ft. Harrison, both 24 north and south of the loading zone; correct?

25 A We're talking about the one.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 133 1 Q Let's stop. If we look at the video and walk 2 you through it.

3 THE WITNESS: Can I step down to look at 4 the video?

5 THE COURT: You sure may. Certainly.

6 You can move.

7 MR. POPE: I can see, Your Honor.

8 THE COURT: Mr. Fugate, people back 9 there, you can come forward if you want.

10 MR. FUGATE: Thank you.

11 THE COURT: And over there too.

12 BY MR. MERRETT:

13 Q All right, is that a police officer car down 14 there north of the loading zone?

15 A It is.

16 Q Is there a police car south of the loading 17 zone?

18 A Correct.

19 Q Through the events were police officers both 20 north and south of the loading zone on the Ft.

21 Harrison Avenue; correct?

22 A The entire time I don't think so. For the 23 majority of time we can see they're there.

24 Q You don't remember, right?

25 A I can't remember whether or not they were ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 134 1 there.

2 Q For the entire time?

3 A Correct.

4 Q What I'm asking you, are you telling us you 5 don't remember?

6 A I don't remember if that one south of the 7 loading zone was there the entire time.

8 Q There was some police vehicle there south of 9 the loading zone the entire time, there was a van, 10 police van, various police cars, the loading zone was 11 always bracketed by police vehicles, or do you not 12 remember?

13 A I don't recall that spot being bracketed the 14 whole time.

15 Q But there was always a police vehicle north, 16 correct, of the loading zone?

17 A After this thing had started for a while the 18 police came, yeah.

19 Q So, part of what was omitted when whoever this 20 person is that did the edits, edited the police 21 arriving on the scene; that is part of what was left 22 out; right?

23 A I -- I don't recall actually. I would have to 24 see the whole video again.

25 Q Okay. We can do that.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 135 1 A I mean the original version to see.

2 Q In order to tell us what happened you need to 3 look at the original not the edited that somebody you 4 don't know who did what to?

5 A I can describe what happened, I don't have a 6 problem with that. We're just talking about the 7 police car.

8 Q And the police car, if there was always a 9 police car north of the loading zone, correct, 10 throughout the event, throughout everything we see on 11 this videotape?

12 A Right.

13 Q So that means then that the vehicles stopping 14 on the street were always protected from on-coming 15 traffic by the police vehicle stopped in the 16 right-hand lane; correct?

17 A In this video that is correct.

18 Q There is a police car with blue lights going;

19 right?

20 A I didn't see lights in this one.

21 Q But I thought you had enough of a recollection 22 that you're the one that is telling us the video is 23 correct.

24 MR. POPE: Your Honor, he is arguing 25 with the witness.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 136 1 BY MR. MERRETT:

2 Q Do you not recall?

3 A I don't see that. I don't see that the lights 4 are on there. At night time, yeah.

5 Q So once it got dark the blue lights were on the 6 whole time?

7 A Uh-huh.

8 Q Also, let's look at a couple of other things on 9 here. Let me back up. Now there is people on the 10 sidewalk there; right?

11 A That's correct.

12 Q And that Scientology van driver is driving the 13 van up in and amongst them; right? He is driving 14 towards where the people are standing?

15 A Right.

16 Q Okay. And the police officers are still 17 standing there, there is some north, or rather south 18 of the loading zone; right?

19 A Uh-huh.

20 Q Now you're not able to tell us, are you, what 21 is in the spaces where, whoever this is did the 22 cutting and splicing, you don't know what is going on 23 there?

24 A Yeah, basically the same thing.

25 Q Here they are pulling up on the sidewalk again, ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 137 1 right? Now, I want to make sure these -- we see four 2 people, two heavy set men, somebody that looks like a 3 body builder, and a blond woman. Are those the 4 private investigators that were hired to stand there 5 on the sidewalk?

6 A I don't know what they, exactly what they do 7 for a living. I don't know them personally. I just 8 met them, the lady. I don't -- I don't actually know.

9 I didn't talk to them very much.

10 Q But they were there at the behest of 11 Scientology; correct?

12 A Yeah.

13 Q You see a police officer there directing the 14 van; did you catch that?

15 A No, I didn't catch that. Yeah, I saw that.

16 Q Now, you shot all of this video, everything 17 that we have seen; correct?

18 A No, that one clip you just showed wasn't my 19 footage.

20 Q The rest of it all yours?

21 A No, there is a few clips from this angle, those 22 clips aren't mine. This one I did not shoot.

23 Q There is other parts in this that you didn't 24 shoot as well?

25 A I think it went back to that angle once or ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 138 1 twice, maybe three times.

2 Q There are events that are duplicated on here, 3 that are shown twice; right?

4 A No.

5 Q Well, we'll find out won't we. Let's watch.

6 All right, see the African American man pick up change 7 there?

8 A Uh-huh.

9 Q Now watch him. He picks it up. You see the 10 guy in the black shirt, the Scientologist 11 investigator, see the black man skips down the 12 sidewalk; right?

13 A Uh-huh.

14 Q Keep watching him. The black van is pulling 15 up, you see that? Black man picks up change again.

16 You see that? You see the private investigator 17 stepping towards him and he steps back? See him 18 stepping forward and he steps back, okay? You catch 19 that?

20 A Yeah.

21 Q Now watch this with me. You see the black van 22 pull up there?

23 A Uh-huh.

24 Q You see the African American man bend down and 25 pick the change right there?

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 139 1 A Uh-huh.

2 Q Watch again. You see the black man as the car 3 passes. Watch your investigator step toward him. See 4 him coming toward him. He is going to take another 5 step there. See him moving him back. That is exactly 6 the same thing we saw on your video a minute ago, 7 isn't that? Is the same screen doubled?

8 A Different camera.

9 Q It's the same people and the same events at the 10 same time; correct?

11 A Yeah.

12 Q So this videotape is not what you testified it 13 was; is it?

14 A No, it has -- it has totally accurate -- 15 Q You can have your seat.

16 MR. POPE: Excuse me. Let him answer 17 the question.

18 THE COURT: Yeah. Yeah. Hold on, 19 please. Sir, you started to say?

20 THE WITNESS: It has totally accurate 21 depiction of what I took and what I saw, and 22 that is what I testified to.

23 THE COURT: Okay. Come on back and sit 24 down a minute.

25 BY MR. MERRETT:

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 140 1 Q I'm sorry. Let me ask you to take a look at 2 this.

3 You see Stacy Brooks tapping the female 4 investigator on the shoulder?

5 A I see her hand on the shoulder.

6 Q Did you hear her say excuse me?

7 A You want to rewind it.

8 Q Sure. You hear her say that?

9 A Excuse us.

10 Q Uh-huh. Did you see the investigator fall 11 forward or lurch in any way, other than moving as she 12 was asked to excuse me?

13 A Did I see what?

14 Q Fall forward or lurch, the investigator?

15 A No.

16 Q Now let me go back to the testimony you gave 17 supposedly authenticating this video. Did you or did 18 you not testify under oath that what was on that video 19 of July 28th is what you filmed?

20 A I testified that from my understanding that 21 that video has accurate clippings of what I filmed and 22 what I saw.

23 Q Did you or did you not testify that that was 24 your film edited by somebody else?

25 A I would have to -- I would have to hear what I ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 141 1 said again. But I -- from my understanding I'm 2 just -- I'm saying that what is on the video is, it 3 has captions of my video.

4 Q Let me ask you this then. You saw, and you 5 would agree now that there is a particular incident 6 that is duplicated on this tape, it is played twice, 7 correct?

8 A That's correct.

9 Q Okay. And you didn't tell us that there were 10 any duplications on the tape when you testified in 11 direct examination, that there were any duplications?

12 A Right. Well it is not a duplication on the 13 video.

14 Q It is the same event; correct?

15 A It is same event with a different camera.

16 Q Okay. Now at the time of the events we're 17 talking about, when the African American protester 18 bends down to pick up the change the second time, you 19 were standing on the other side of the van; correct?

20 A That is right. I was on -- 21 Q Between the van and Ft. Harrison; right?

22 A The loading zone area, right.

23 Q Who shot the other version of it that is a part 24 of this tape?

25 A From my understanding it was Antonio.

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 142 1 Q Do you know?

2 A Well I -- I knew I saw him that night across 3 the street and I saw him filming.

4 Q Okay.

5 A And he told me.

6 Q But you don't have any personal knowledge about 7 where it came from, just what somebody may have told 8 you?

9 A When I saw him videoing across the street, I -- 10 Q Okay. And when did you first realize that the 11 same event was shown more than once on the video?

12 A When did I first realize that?

13 Q Yes.

14 A Just now, I watched it.

15 Q So when you were watching it paying careful 16 attention to authenticate it to be introduced into 17 evidence you didn't catch that; right?

18 A I caught that some of the footage wasn't taken 19 by me. I saw that the first time. But I wasn't 20 watching for that same screen over again.

21 Q So what we know at this point, now that you 22 told us that there is video on there, I think you said 23 there is two spots shot by somebody else?

24 THE COURT: What is the date of this 25 one?

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 143 1 MR. MERRETT: July 28th.

2 THE COURT: That is what I thought.

3 BY MR. MERRETT:

4 Q There were two sections shot on there by 5 somebody other than yourself; correct?

6 A Yeah.

7 Q So, what we're dealing with then is not just a 8 tape that somebody working for Scientology took, a 9 tape that you made and removed parts of, we're talking 10 about a tape that somebody, that you don't know who it 11 is, cut up and added parts to as well; correct?

12 A Made a copy of mine and a copy of some of 13 Antonio's and put them together on one tape.

14 Q Assuming this is Antonio's; correct?

15 A Right.

16 Q And you don't know who did this cut and paste 17 job; right?

18 A I don't personally know.

19 Q Now, if, and I assure you we'll find out before 20 everything is over, but if it is correct that you 21 testified that all that tape is yours, that was 22 incorrect; right?

23 A Yeah, I wouldn't have testified that everything 24 on the tape I videoed, because I know I didn't.

25 MR. MERRETT: I don't have anything ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 144 1 further of this witness.

2 THE COURT: Okay. All right.

3 Mr. Howie?

4 MR. HOWIE: Nothing further, Your Honor.

5 THE COURT: Mr. Pope?

6 MR. POPE: Yes, Your Honor.

7 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 8 BY MR. POPE:

9 Q Mr. Lowrey, on the 28th there were two people 10 out there filming the events; correct?

11 A That's correct.

12 Q You were one of them?

13 A Uh-huh.

14 Q Correct?

15 A Correct.

16 Q You need to give an audible answer. You were 17 one of them?

18 A That's correct.

19 Q And Antonio, who testified in here earlier, was 20 one of them; correct?

21 A That's correct.

22 Q You saw him doing it?

23 A Yeah, I did.

24 Q And you -- 25 MR. MERRETT: Object to the leading, ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 145 1 Your Honor.

2 THE COURT: Please.

3 BY MR. POPE:

4 Q You then viewed this tape; correct?

5 A Uh-huh.

6 Q And did you confirm that everything you saw on 7 the tape was what you had personally witnessed and 8 seen while you were on the scene?

9 A Yeah, I personally witnessed that, yeah.

10 Q And I asked you on your direct examination if 11 that tape was a fair and accurate representation of 12 what you had seen; right?

13 A Right.

14 Q And what was your answer?

15 A My answer is yes.

16 MR. POPE: All right, thank you.

17 THE COURT: Anything further?

18 MR. MERRETT: Yes.

19 THE COURT: Go ahead. Either one of 20 you.

21 RECROSS-EXAMINATION 22 BY MR. MERRETT:

23 Q I Have a brief recross. Mr. Lowrey, there are 24 things on that tape that you yourself did not see;

25 correct?

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 146 1 A I don't know exactly what you mean.

2 Q At the time that the man picked up the change 3 you were standing between the van and the Ft.

4 Harrison?

5 A Correct.

6 Q You didn't see the view from the street side;

7 correct?

8 A Well, I saw the same thing, the same people, 9 the scene, the scenery and the people and the events 10 was the same event. I mean -- 11 Q You don't think it is important to be precise 12 when you're testifying under oath?

13 MR. POPE: Objection, Your Honor.

14 THE COURT: All right. Understand.

15 Let's go ahead. Disregard. Well, I'm not 16 disregarding that. Rephrase your question.

17 BY MR. MERRETT:

18 Q Sir, you didn't see what is depicted in the 19 video that is shot from the street side; correct?

20 MR. POPE: Objection. Asked and 21 answered, and he is arguing with the witness 22 now.

23 THE COURT: All right. One more time.

24 Answer the question. Let's move on.

25 THE WITNESS: What was the question?

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 147 1 BY MR. MERRETT:

2 Q The question was, you did not see the scene 3 from the street side of the van; correct?

4 A I didn't see it from that side, no.

5 Q Okay. So when you testified that the tape 6 fairly and accurately represented what you saw, there 7 is parts of the tape that you can't say that about, 8 correct?

9 A Well, if we're talking about what was going on, 10 what was happening in general then that is correct.

11 Q Well, let me ask you this. There were more 12 people than you and whoever you said, Edwardo, video 13 taping for Scientology that night; correct?

14 A I don't know.

15 Q Mr. O'Riely was out there videotaping?

16 A I don't know. I know that Antonio was and I 17 know that I was.

18 Q You don't know if you were out there 19 videotaping on the 28th?

20 A I said I know that I was and I know that 21 Antonio was.

22 Q And there were other people; correct?

23 A I saw in the video there was someone else. I 24 don't know who that was.

25 MR. MERRETT: I don't have anything ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 148 1 further.

2 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Howie?

3 MR. HOWIE: Nothing further, Your Honor.

4 THE COURT: Mr. Pope?

5 MR. POPE: Nothing further, Your Honor.

6 THE COURT: All right. Now, this 7 gentleman, can we excuse him?

8 MR. POPE: We can, Your Honor.

9 THE COURT: All right, sir, you step 10 down. You're free to come, go, stay in, do 11 whatever you want to do.

12 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

13 THE COURT: Today that is. They may 14 call you back when we continue, but today 15 you're free to go.

16 All right, ladies and gentlemen, I'm -- 17 we're going to be out of time. It is five 18 minutes to one. I can't -- I have already 19 carried over two additional hours for you. If 20 you want to be patient, well -- when do you 21 anticipate your client being back?

22 MR. HOWIE: Frankly I don't know, Your 23 Honor. I think what we need to do is 24 accommodate the Court's Petitioner and other 25 parties on their scheduling and see what we can ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 149 1 do.

2 THE COURT: Gentlemen, gentlemen, wait a 3 minute. Mr. Howie. Once I start one of these 4 injunction proceedings I like to move them.

5 I'm going to ask you to bear with me a minute.

6 I'm going to go ahead and take a look at my 7 computer, see if I can find one or two time 8 slots, tell you what we're going to do. Okay?

9 Gentlemen, Thursday afternoon next week 10 the 9th. I can give you all afternoon.

11 MR. MERRETT: Can I make a telephone 12 call to my office, they keep my calendar on the 13 computer.

14 THE COURT: Go ahead. Sit down. Go out 15 in the hall and do it if you want. I'm not 16 asking you to do it in here. Go ahead.

17 MR. HOWIE: Your Honor, if I may be 18 excused to make a call?

19 THE COURT: You can too.

20 MR. POPE: I'll move stuff to make it 21 available.

22 THE COURT: I'll move to. We'll all 23 move.

24 MR. MERRETT: Your Honor, can I have a 25 second date?

ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 150 1 THE COURT: No. Clearing it. I had to 2 do that too, to let you know. It was easier to 3 clear that.

4 MR. MERRETT: It is always easy to clear 5 it when you're the judge.

6 THE COURT: Don't go there. Don't do 7 that. Doesn't work that way. You have to take 8 a look at what you got. Next thing you hear, 9 clomp, clomp, clomp, here comes the Chief Judge 10 and somebody picked up the phone and got her 11 excited.

12 MR. MERRETT: Good thing she has wooden 13 shoes so you know when she is coming.

14 THE COURT: Hey. Thank you. Do it 15 Thursday. What are you going to tell me, 16 anything?

17 MR. HOWIE: I'm not going to tell you a 18 thing. I'll be here.

19 THE COURT: Thank you. Thank you.

20 Okay. Thank you. We'll pick it up then. And 21 any -- now, listen everybody. We started, 22 anybody that has been sworn and is subject to 23 the rule, that still carries over. And as far 24 as Mr. Minton not being here or anything, well, 25 he is a party. You can pretty much brief him ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 151 1 if you plan on bringing him up as a witness or 2 something. Remember the rule's invoked.

3 I'll see you all next Thursday, one 4 o'clock, right back here. Thank you all. Have 5 a good day.

6 (THEREUPON THE PROCEEDINGS WERE CONCLUDED AT 1:05 P.M.)

7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES 152 1 2 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 3 STATE OF FLORIDA ) 4 COUNTY OF PINELLAS ) 5 I, DEBORAH M. WILLIAMS, Court Reporter, Notary Public, State of Florida at Large:

6 7 DO HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the time and 8 place set forth in the caption thereof; the proceedings were stenographically reported by me in 9 shorthand, and the foregoing pages, numbered 1 through 152, inclusive, constitute a true and correct 10 transcript of my said stenographic report.

11 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative 12 or employee or attorney or counsel of any of the parties hereto, nor a relative or employee of such 13 attorney or counsel, nor do I have any interest in the outcome or events of this action.

14 15 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto affixed my official signature this _____ day of November, 16 2000, at Clearwater, Pinellas County, Florida.

17 _______________________________ DEBORAH M. WILLIAMS 18 Court Reporter Sixth Judicial Circuit 19 Notary Public, State of Florida 20 21 22 23 24 25 ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES