After Brian Anderson it was Humberto Fontana's turn, the former "Director of Social Reform OSA CW," had been with the group of Scientologists who had persuaded Lisa McPherson to leave the Morton Plant Hospital and to check in at the Fort Harrison. Like Anderson he suffered severely from amnesia when asked for the whereabouts of the missing documents during an interrogation on September 10th, 1997:
Q: "Lisa's folders, PC folders, ended up in your office according to Annie Mora. Do you know why that was?"
A: "No."
Q: "They're not normally kept there?"
A: "Right."
Q: "They're normally kept in another section of the building?"
A: "Right."
Q: "Mr. Kartuzinski would have had possession of the folder if he was in charge of her as the senior case supervisor, right?"
A: "Uh-huh."
Q: "And your office ended up with those folders boxed up. Did you ever see them?"
A: "When I arrived back from Los Angeles in around May or June of 96, I remember seeing a few folders in the office. And I don't remember them being boxed up, but I think there were a few folders."
Q: "When you say a few folders, whose folders?"
A: "Lisa's."
Q: "Her folders were lying around the office in May or June of 96?"
A: "Yeah. There were a couple there, 2 or 3."
Q: "In your office?"
A: "Uh-huh."
Q: "Where did you see them, whose desk? Who had control of them? Whose custody?"
A: "Well, it was there in the legal office, or I think they were in the legal office."
Q: "That was in April or May did you say?"
A: "No. May or June."
Q: "May or June of 1996. Were they in a box or were they individual folders lying out?"
A: "They could have been in a box. I just remember seeing the folders."
Q: "Describe it. How big? How many?"
A: "There were maybe a couple folders. They're about this fat."
Q: "You're describing what could be - ... "
A: "Manila envelope."
Q: "You describe what could be 3 or 4 inches thick?"
A: "Each maybe a couple to 3 inches thick. They are PC folders."
Q: "That would contain auditing?"
A: "Yes."
Q: "They would also contain the caretaker's notes that I got some of. Are you aware of that?"
A: "No."
Q: "You're not aware that the caretaker's note were being routed to Alain Kartuzinski?"
A: "No."
Q: "Are you aware of that now?"
A: "Right."
Q: "You weren't aware of it then?"
A: "No."
Q: "When did you become aware of it?"
A: "About a week ago."
Q: "That some of these caretaker's notes were in those folders?"
A: "Uh-huh."
Q: "And that information was gained to you through the lawyers in this case?"
A: "Yes."
Q: "Did you ever open those folders or gaze upon any of the contents of those folders?"
A: "No."
Q: "You're saying that you saw them, but you didn't look at them?"
A: "Right."
Q: "Who was in charge of them?"
A: "Well, it would be my wife."
Q: "So she had the possession of them?"
A: "Yeah. They were in her office."
Q: "Where are they now?"
A: "I have no idea. They could be in the warehouse here."
Q: "Let me ask you this. Are they in your office?"
A: "No."
Q: "Are they in the OSA office?"
A: "No." Q: "Are they in there anywhere? Any Lisa McPherson documents in your office right now at all?"
A: "To my knowledge, no."
Q: "That's all I'm asking, the best you got."
A: "No."
Q: "Were you aware that sometime along the way here they were shipped to LA? Were you aware of that?"
A: "I don't know about all of them, but I remember my wife telling me that she was sending some to LA."
Q: "Okay. Do you know whether she did that at the request of somebody or she was just doing that because that's the normal course of business for the church?"
A: "Well, it's not the normal course of business."
Q: "To send folders to LA?"
A: "Not necessarily, unless somebody is getting counseling or something would be probably - ... "
Q: "She is dead at that time?"
A: "Right. It's either a request or for some reason she decided to send it there. I don't know which of the two it was."
Q: "Annie Mora told me she boxed them up to send them to LA. I was kind of curious as to who told had her and why and who requested them. Do you have any of that knowledge?"
A: "No, I don't. But if she did them, it may not have been in the legal area and maybe she just handled it from a request from - ... "
Q: "Whoever?"
A: "Right."
Q: "In LA?"
A: "Yeah."
Q: "Do you remember when this was done?"
A: "I don't remember, but it must have been done after May or June of 96, I assume at least, unless she sent something at another time, but that's what I recall."
Q: "Would you say your wife has a little more knowledge in the routing and the contents of these folders than you do?"
A: "For the ones that were in the office, in her office at the time, yes, she would have more data."
Q: "They were specifically in her office within the OSA?" A: "I'm pretty sure they were. Again, I mean, they could have been Annie's office. I thought I saw them in the legal office."
Q: "Did you ever meet Bob Johnson the original lawyer? Did you meet with him?"
A: "Yeah."
Q: "What was the purpose of that meeting? I don't want any privileged communication, but the purpose of that meeting was what, debriefing?"
A: "Basically where the case was at that time."
Q: "That was way back in December right after she died, right?"
A: "No."
Q: "Later on?"
A: "Yeah."
Q: "Bob Johnson was later on?"
A: "Well, the times that I had anything to do with Bob Johnson, it was later on. It was after May or June of 96."
Q: "So you're not aware of who ordered the folders from LA?"
A: "No."
Q: "Do you know Kathy O'Gorman?"
A: "Yes, I know her."
Q: "Who is she?"
A: "She is the person that works in the OSA office in Los Angeles."
Q: "Kathy O'Gorman?"
A: "O apostrophe Gorman."
Q: "She is the data chief?"
A: "Uh-huh."
Q: "You ever talk to her about this case?"
A: "No."
Q: "Has your wife, that you know of?"
A: "No."
Q: "So she's a data chief at OSA International?"
A: "Uh-huh."
Q: "How do you know her?"
A: "I've been up in Los Angeles. I know a lot of the people that work there."
Q: "Just as a guess, would you think that she would have knowledge about these PC folders?"
A: "As a guess, she may or may not."
Q: "That's - ... "
A: "I mean, I really - ... "
Q: "That's good, an I don't know."
A: "I don't know."
Q: "How about Ken Long, you know him?"
A: "Yeah, I know Ken."
Q: "What does he do?"
A: "He works in the legal department."
Q: "In LA?"
A: "Yeah."
Q: "How about him, you ever talk to him in reference to the Lisa McPherson case?"
A: "Nope."
Q: "How about Carol Oakes?"
A: "Yeah."
Q: "Where is she?"
A: "She works in the office as well."
Q: "Your office or out there?"
A: "No, out there."
Q: "You talk to her about this case, Lisa McPherson?"
A: "No."
Q: "You have some conversation with Brian Anderson about the handling of this case way back when, when it first happened?"
A: "Nope."
Judy Fontana, former Legal Officer OSA CW and wife of Humberto Fontana was interviewed on September 17th, 1997. Apparently she did not bother to discuss essential issues of the case either with her husband or with her colleagues:
Q: "Prior to that have you ever seen Lisa's PC folder?"
A: "No."
Q: "Did you know where it was?"
A: "No."
Q: "Where is - where are everybody's PC folders kept in Clearwater?"
A: "Generally PC folders are kept in a warehouse."
Q: "Okay. Were you aware of Mr. Kartuzinski's having possession of them at any time?"
A: "No."
Q: "Were you aware of Brian Anderson having possession of them at any time?"
A: "No."
Q: "Were you aware of Annie Mora having possession of them at any time?"
A: "No."
Q: "Up until today?"
A: "No. That's correct."
Q: "So - now, you know that Annie Mora had possession of them at one time?"
A: "Well, no, I didn't know that specifically. Know that Annie Mora had - I had asked Annie where the pre-clear folders were."
Q: "When was that?"
A: "When I returned in January."
Q: "And what did she say?"
A: "And she told me that she had sent them or had them sent to Los Angeles. Whether she physically had the folders in her possession, I don't know, but she told me that she had them sent to Los Angeles."
Q: "She told you that in January of 96?" A: "Uh-huh."
Q: "That she had already sent Lisa McPherson's pre-clear folders?"
A: (Nodding head.)
Q: "Do you know how many of them there were?"
A: "No."
Q: "But she had already boxed them up and sent them to LA?"
A: "That's right, or she didn't have to have necessarily done them herself but that, she had them sent to Los Angeles."
Q: "Okay. Who ordered that to be done?"
A: "I don't know, and I didn't actually ask."
Q: "Why?"
A: "It wasn't particularly pertinent information."
Q: "You're the legal officer in the OSA. Why wouldn't that be pertinent? You don't know who ordered those up?"
A: "No. No, I don't know who ordered it."
Q: "Who does know the answer to that question?"
A: "I would think Annie would."
Q: "Annie doesn't know the answer to that question. She actually said your name."
A: "I don't know who would know, because Annie - if Annie was the one that sent them, Annie should know the one who ordered them."
Q: "You would think, and I think she did use your name, so she's mistaken if she used your name in reference to ordering up those documents to send them to LA?"
ATTORNEY MR. LAURO: "Before you answer that, I don't have a copy of the transcript."
MR. MCGARRY: "I know."
MR. LAURO: "I think it's - ... "
MR. MCGARRY: "I'm just asking her."
MR. LAURO: "I think the reference from Annie Mora was either Judy or Brian. I don't think she was certain as to who. I could be wrong, but that's my recollection of what her testimony was."
MR. MCGARRY: "I think you're accurate on her."
BY MR. MCGARRY: "It could have been Brian or you. And you're saying it wasn't you?"
A: "It wasn't me."
Q: "And to the best of my recollection, Brian said it wasn't him, so who does that - who does that leave?"
A: "I have no idea. I mean, you're asking me to speculate on something when I wasn't present."
Q: "I'm not asking you to speculate. I'm asking you who might know the answer to my question."
A: "The one who would be logical would be Annie Page and if Annie and Brian don't know, then I'm stumped."
Q: "Well, let me ask you further questions about that area."
A: "Sure."
Q: "Why were they sent to LA? Why would somebody's PC folder be sent to LA if - if the person lived here? She's dead. Why did it go to LA?"
A: "Well, that's actually pretty usual when you have an occasion where a parishioner has obviously gotten into some sort of trouble. The folders would be reviewed."
Q: "By who?"
A: "By somebody - somebody from the - one of the senior officers who were in charge of the ministerial actions for the church and that's out in Los Angeles. That's pretty regular."
Q: "And as a legal officer in Clearwater, the head legal officer in OSA, you don't know who that was?"
A: "No."
Q: "I'm talking today, right now, you - ... "
A: "I understand."
Q: "... - don't know who the person is that has - where are the PC files now?"
A: "I have no idea."
Q: "And have you - and have you talked to Glen Stilo about this matter, this Lisa McPherson matter?"
A: "No."
Q: "Not at all?"
A: "No."
Q: "Are you aware that Glen Stilo was kind of doing a document search in reference to some reports that we suspect are missing from Lisa's PC folder? Are you aware that he was doing that?"
A: "No." Q: "When's the last time you've seen Glen Stilo?"
A: "This morning."
Q: "Oh, he dropped you off here this morning?"
A: "Exactly."
Q: "And you're trying to tell me that now he's - to this day you've never talked about Lisa McPherson's case with him?"
A: "No. I discussed it with my attorney in preparation for this meeting."
Q: "I understand that. And as well as Sandy Weinberg and Lee Fugate, correct?"
A: "That's right."
Q: "Previously, earlier?"
A: "Previously."
Q: "This summer?"
A: "Uh-huh."
Q: "So he is now - what - give me his title exactly, Glen Stilo's position."
A: "He's the legal officer for Flag, Flag Service Org."
Q: "And when did he take that position?"
A: "I actually don't know, but it would have been sometime in the spring of 97, I would think."
Q: "And you're not aware, because you're not in OSA now, nor privy to any of the Lisa McPherson talk, where the PC folder is?"
A: "That's right."
Q: "To this - I mean, who knows where the PC folder is right now?"
A: "I have no idea who knows."
Q: "So in February of this year, of 1997, you were not in OSA - at the OSA?"
A: "No. I was in Los Angeles."
Q: "Did everybody in the OSA know that? I mean, I've talked to everybody in this OSA and this is the first time I've heard that you weren't the legal officer, really, for quite sometime."
A: "I would have thought they would know about that."
Q: "Well - ... "
A: "Maybe they thought I was."
Q: "A lot of people give you credit that I've talked to for doing a lot of things, and, of course, now you are denying any participation practically whatsoever in the Lisa McPherson case."
MR. LAURO: "Wait, wait, wait. That's a little bit of an overstatement, because I don't think you've asked certain questions."
MR. MCGARRY: "In reference to records."
MR. LAURO: "In reference to collection of records, I think that's a fair statement."
MR. MCGARRY. Q: "Right. In reference to the records you're out of the loop?"
A: "That's right."
Q: "Other than knowing that Annie Mora sent them to LA? You knew that?"
A: "That's right."
Q: "But you don't know why she sent them or who asked for them or who ordered that?"
A: "That's right."
Q: "Are you aware who the person is that actually went through the PC folder and determined what was caretaker notes and what wasn't?"
A: "No."
Lack of memory, lack of internal communication, bad administration of records all such reasons were given to the investigators by the officials of the Office of Special Affairs as reasons for the loss of the missing documents. At the same time these individuals are bound to provide their superiors with detailed reports and debriefs on a daily and weekly basis about events that are far less important than the sudden death of a public member on their premises.
This "disorganization" that apparently hit the "Office of Special Affairs" right after Lisa's death, according to the testimonies of its employees, must be seen in view of the following facts:
On the same evening that Lisa died, the "Prediction I/C OSA Flag" and the "CO OSA Flag" Brian Anderson were able to conduct several debriefs and to compile various information to write two lengthy reports that then were sent to "OSA International." The first report contained information about Lisa's "case history" [Exh. No. 371], the second covered the observations of the "caretakers" [Exh. No. 372]. Both reports were evidently written with the pc-folders in possession by the Office of Special Affairs.
Right after her death, Lisa's personal effects were removed by FSO-personnel from the room at the Fort Harrison, where she had been staying [Exh. No. 373].
When Lisa's relatives arrived in Clearwater on December 16th 1995 to look after Lisa's apartment, they found people "carting out Lisa's belongings, including her stereo, television set, answering machine, telephone and clothes [Exh. No. 374]."
In his testimony Lynn Farny, the "Legal Officer OSA International," admitted that Brian Anderson had destroyed documents. It is utterly impossible that Anderson did this without the knowledge and upon coordinating it with his superiors. In this connection it is interesting to note that Farny had been indirectly involved in the destruction of documents during a lengthy civil litigation with an ex-member by giving false testimony about such an operation ("Lawrence Wollersheim vs. Church of Scientology of California et al," Superior Court for the County of Los Angeles, No. C332027). During the appeals process of that suit, Vickie Aznaran, former Inspector General of the "Religious Technology Center" stated in a declaration on June 29th, 1993 [Exh. No. 375]:
"... 8. I understand that Lynn Farny has submitted a declaration stating that Scientology complied with Judge Swearinger's order in the Wollersheim case to produce Wollersheim's pre-clear files. This is false. As I stated in my Fishman-declaration, I personally culled and destroyed (shredded) from these files evidence, which would help Wollersheim and hurt Scientology in the case. I was personally ordered to do so by David Miscavige, the head of Scientology, and Marty Rathbun. The culling and destruction took place at the Fountain Avenue building in Los Angeles. I was assisted in the document destruction by then Scientologist Jesse Prince. Lynn Farny was a low level Scientology official and was not at the meetings where this was discussed. However, Lynn Farny is not telling the truth, because as a Scientology staff member it is Scientology policy never to turn over information in litigation without first culling out (deleting and destroying) material that will harm Scientology. It is also, however, Scientology policy to lie to cover up such misdeeds."
That tactic was applied during the Lisa McPherson-investigation. The apparent case of "epidemic amnesia" among the OSA-members during the interviews with the investigators and the ostensible arbitrary shredding of documents were in fact an organized attempt to cover up anything that might hurt the organization. And such conduct is in fact standard policy within the Church of Scientology. L. Ron Hubbard stated in his 1959-booklet "Manual of Justice" [Exh. No. 376]:
"WHEN BEING INVESTIGATED
"If you are being investigated or if the Central organization is sit tight, don't cooperate.
"Be legal to the laws of the land in the first place. After that kick investigators and reporters downstairs.
"... Never spook if investigated. And don't co-operate. Sit tight. Be silent. Make the investigator talk. Gradually put him into session if you can. Put him in birth or get him three feet back of his head. But don't co-operate or volunteer data. It's not that you've anything to hide. it's just that investigators can't duplicate. They pervert things they hear.'
"Your whole answer to anyone is This is an institution that has definite high standing throughout the world. Why don't you see our attorneys?' This kills press and cops alike.
"I've seen an outside investigation of a guiltless organization put the whole place in a flap. and cost it two days' of work or more. I've seen an organization fall apart by suspending operation for ten days while it permitted itself to be investigated. So don't co-operate. If you don't scare or cringe, the menace fades away. ... "
It is not surprising, that this booklet can be found in the earlier mentioned OSA Intelligence Officer check sheet from 1991 [Exh. No. 93], where it is listed as mandatory reading material under the chapter "Invest Basics."