Budd Hopkins on May , 8 Interview
[Here begins the formal CO with Budd Hopkins on May 22, 1988 Live from New
User User ID Nod Name
---- ------------- --- -------------------
1 76703,266 CSG Georgia
2 71450,3504 LIU DBC
3 70000,1034 ACM mgh
4 70511,17 CRZ Mike
5 73710,3240 NWD Dreadstar
6 76701,11 NYY Budd
7 71330,1520 AAK John Craig
8 76650,1021 TTO T. Mickus
9 71777,1116 CNC OTTO
10 76067,3777 NYY Ted
11 74270,3360 BOI Don Ecker
12 76164,3262 SFG CHRISTOPHER YOUNG
13 72047,2261 NYJ Neil P. Frank
14 70446,622 TTO ROGER
15 71641,1204 MDN Gordon
16 72337,2717 ORL Mike Hooper
17 72135,424 PNX Jim Speiser
18 73230,2604 WPM Joe Berger
19 72200,254 HVN Trep
20 76210,1244 BOL Jim
21 73405,1357 PNX Jim
22 76117,1143 MRT Ed H
23 73240,1657 PRV matt
24 71605,2013 MTC Gerry Zeitlin
25 72017,1736 NNM Larry Ledlow
26 76407,2302 DFL ralph hoagland
27 71431,22 FTL STEVE
29 71350,1353 LIN GREG
30 75170,354 HVT Joe
31 75340,2642 TSA Marge Christensen
(DBC) Is that G-wiz there?
(Georgia) yup i'm being formal.GA
(DBC) Looking forward to the session tonight.ga
(Charles) hi. Budd will be joining us shortly.
(Georgia) Hi ya c h a r l e s!
(Charles) Hi Georgia! How's it going?
(DBC) Hi Charles. DBC in Port Jefferson tonight.ga
(Charles) DBC ... in LI, eh?
(DBC) Charles, how was dinner?ga
(Charles) DBC ... just great! We'll chat about it later.
(Ted M) Hi Budd
(Budd) Hello now
(John Craig) Hello from Alaska
(T. Mickus) Hello From Canada..
(mgh) hello from Columbus
(DBC) Real international tonight.ga
(Dreadstar) hello from New York city, in other words Gotham
(John Craig) Has anyone else sent questionnaire into OMNI?
(CHRISTOPHER YOUNG) I HAVE
(John Craig) From Alaska, are you with us yet Nebraska?
(DBC) Is that Neil P of the Ontario Triangle? ga
(CHRISTOPHER YOUNG) Any abductees here?
(John Craig) Alaska to Nebraska, you with us?
(ROGER)] HI FROM TORONTO
(OTTO) Charlotte NC
(Neil P. Frank) I'm in N.Y.
(John Craig) Eagle River, Alaska
(CHRISTOPHER YOUNG) San Francisco
(T. Mickus) Well it looks like we're getting good representation
(Mike) SANTA CRUZ, CALIFORNIA
(Ted) Hi from New York
(Gordon) NEW YORK
(Joe Berger) West Palm Beach, FL
(Mike Hooper) Orlando, FL
(Georgia) here we go!
% Conference has begun
(Georgia) Welcome to all! This is a moderated conference. During the
interview you will be unable to interrupt. When the
question-and-answer period is announced, if you have a question,
please type recognized and each person will be notified that
he/she is next. Each person will be allowed one question and one
follow-up until all have had an opportunity to speak. If time
permits, we'll do a second round of questions. To see how many
questions are ahead of yours, type /look Try not to enter more
than 50 or 60 characters on a line at a time, and limit your
questions to only a few lines.
Ted Markley, who is in charge of the paranormal issues section of
Issues Forum, will conduct the interview and moderate the
discussion. Ted is an electrical/electronics engineer who has
been involved in the design of industrial computers and laser
systems; he is now a VP at his company.
Ted, go ahead.
(Ted) Ok. Tonight's guest, Budd Hopkins, is one of the most respected UFO
Investigators in the filed today. He has written two books appeared
on numerous television talk shows and given talks at conferences
across the USA. His most recent book, "Intruders" is soon to be made
into a major motion picture. I'm sure you all want to hear (read)
more from Budd himself sooooo......
Budd how is the movie coming? GA
(Budd) With the strike of writers, everything is on hold. But we're hopeful.
(Ted got dropped momentarily!)
(Ted) Ok. Budd before we open the floor I have a few questions. For the
benefit of those who are not familiar with the Abduction Phenomenon
would you relate to us the "Typical abduction Scenario." GA
(Budd) Typically he person unfortunate to be 'selected' is picked up a as a
child, somewhere between the ages of two or three and six. At that
a cell sampling operation takes place. The child returns with one of
two kinds of wounds - either a small, scoop-type of wound or a thin,
scalpal like cut. The memory is usually blocked, so the child
remembers very little consciously. Then that same child is picked up
repeatedly, particularly after puberty. At some point a small
implant seems to be put in place, via a thin needle which inserts it
either up the nostril, in the ear, or beneath the eye ball in the eye
socket. We have never yet recovered one of these implants, which are
roughly 2 millimeters in diameter. This is howe it all starts. There
is much more, I'll go into later.
(Ted) Ok. Budd, with the success of "Missing TIme" and :INtruders" do you
have another book in the works? ga
(Budd) Yes. My book, tentatively titled "aftermath" has do do with (Sorry
for the George Bush-type slip) My book has to do with the inroads
these abduction experiences make in the abductee's life and
psychological stability. It will not deal centrally with the content
of UFO abductions.
(Ted) Ok. It has been said that the more public exposure that Phil Klass
gets the better it is for the UFO cause. Can you comment?
(Budd) I don't agree. Though he does come across as the UFO community's
equivalent of Lyndon LaRouche, we need open minded inquirers, not
hardened, ossified ideologies. I had an interesting conversation
recently with Carl Sagan. He seemed reasonable, interested, and
gentlemanly, possessing three qualities PK obviously lacks. When I
described some of PK's outrageous behavior and referred to him as
'your man Klass' Sagan said, "he's not my man." I was relieved.
(Ted) One last question before I open the floor. What can those at this
conference do to help solve and/or stop the UFO abductions? GA
(Budd) First we genuinely need every able-bodied, open-minded psychologist
to recognize this phenomenon as a national problem. They must look
into this material and lend their expertise to the investigation,
whatever their preconceptions. Second, we must eliminate the air of
ridicule which surrounds this subject,so that innocent, traumatized
people can be helped rather than injured anew. And last, we must
join together scientists,investigators, UFO researchers and others in
a joint effort to solve the mystery, rather than arguing, carping at
one another, and standing at the sidelines idly theorizing.
(Ted) Ok. Great! I think it is time to open the floor to ?s If you want to
ask a question get in line by typing /q ga
% Moderator recognizes queue #1
John Craig <7>
(Ted) Ok John go ahead
(John Craig) Thanks, . Budd, because of all the publicity, have you been
swamped with letters? And has this led to any kind of statistical
analysis of the potential number of abductees?
(Budd) I have been truly swamped. I may have as many as 700 letters at home
I have not yet read. From the hundreds I've already read, and the
analysis that's been done on the OMNI letter the abduction phenomenon
is very widespread. I would say that perhaps 75% of the "Intruders"
letters demand a look as possible abductions, and perhaps twenty % of
the OMNI letters. We're speaking about thousands of letters in these
(Ted) ok John any follow up?
(John Craig) Thanks, Budd. I sent one of those long ones in, and am anxious
to find out whatever I can on the whole subject.
(Budd) John, my apologies for not having answered. I have no funding, and
when I get my first royalty check on the paperback book sales, July
1, I'm going to hire someone to help me deal with the correspondence.
Meanwhile I'm too busy in the emergency room, as it were, working
with new people, TO TRY TO KEEP up
% Moderator recognizes queue #2
(DBC) Budd, I understand from George and Shirley Coyne (co-state directors
of MUFON in Michigan; I believe you know them) that since January 19
of this year abductees in the MI area have begun to experience
something quite strange. Women began to have out-of cycle menstrual
periods, and began to lactate. They also acquired new pin marks on
their thighs and experienced nose bleeds. Can you tell us if this has
happened nationally/internationally and what do you feel is the
(Budd) So far as I know it has not occurred on any large scale. However,
problems of lactation, menstrual problems and so on are endemic to
the abduction of women. ga
(Ted) any follow DBC?
(DBC) I have one other question. I know you have been in close contact with
things going on in Gulf Breeze, FL, and I've seen some of the
incredible UFO photographs taken by "Mr Ed". I also understand GB is
now heavily bracketed by military/government radars. Can you give us
your assessment of what is going on there and why "Mr Ed" has
apparently been selected to make these photographs?ga
(Budd) I have spent quite a lot of time in GB, and this is my position: It
may be a hoax, as any UFO case may be a hoax. It may be entirely
truthful. I have seen not a shred of evidence indicating a hoax.
Not a shred! Many hallmark UFO cases from Arnold to Hill to
Pascagoula to Kathie Davis and so on have advanced our knowledge of
the UFO phenomenon. It is an ongoing, unfolding situation, and GB
may be a truly hallmark case like these others. Maccabee, myself,
Andrus and five local investigators have yet to see any evidence
indicating a hoax.
% Moderator recognizes queue #3
Don Ecker <11>
(Budd) Two local investigators, Boyd and Willy Smith claim to see suspicious
signs. None of the others so far involved have either been there or
worked from the original polaroids. We must all draw a deep breath,
hold our tongues, and let the investigation proceed. We may be at
a true watershed, and it behooves all of us, at the least, not to
add a potential slander suit to the problems we already have.
(Ted) In order that we get through each person once we will dispense with
the follow up. Ok don ga
(Don Ecker) Hello Bud, for the last several months I have been researching a
paper for MUFON, and the Paranet system on the hostile aspects of
the Phenomemon. For over 40 years there have been case after case of
deaths, injuries etc. that for the most part have been ignored.
Several months ago when the Lear hypothesis first broke, many people
immediately laughed it off however some of what he proposed seem to
be born out by your research into this subject. First, do you
believe that these entities, what ever they are are hostile or just
proceed much like a scientist in the wild would when tagging an
animal, and next do you believe that like Lear projected, these
abductees might be programmed to proceed on a "mission" for the want
of a better word at some point in the future? And last, what do you
really believe in the "crossbreeding" experiments that would appear
to be happening? ga
(Budd) Big questions, Don. First I don't see clear evidence of actual
hostility. I've written a paper expressing my views which was
published in IUR a few issues back, entitled "What they are doing to
us." I won't reprise it here. Second, the Lear hypothesis is a mix,
as John admits, of surmise, fact and rumor. We all know the aliens
can be deceptive, and we know about our government's truthfulness.
So when we, or you, or John put it all together we have two cans of
worms rather than one. It's best to proceed one foot in front of the
other, trying to withstand the pressures to hypothesize, and trying
to steer between Space Brothers wooly-headedness and body-snatchers
paranoia. After all these years they could have done horrible things
to us if they wanted do. Apart from foisting Ed Meese upon us, I
haven't seen evidence of true malevolence. As to their purpose of
the hybridization plan, I have no idea of its final purpose.
Something in me believes they are actually envious of us, of our
beautiful planet, of our rich humanness. I think they want to
observe and understand our maternal and paternal feelings, our simple
human diversity. I think they've possibly come to steal our DNA, but
also to learn from us. To turn a lot of New Age mythology and
wishful thinking around, we may inadvertently and involuntarily be
their "spirit guides."ga
% Moderator recognizes queue #5
(Ted) Please keep your questions short so we can get to everyone. NEXT
(ROGER) hello Mr. Hopkins. do you know of any solid evidence of the
government having alien beings in their possession, as there have
been reported crashes in the past. ga
(Budd) When next Bill Moore or Len Stringfield appear, best ask them. I stay
conservatively fixed in my area of expertise, never to wander.ga
% Moderator recognizes queue #7
Jim Speiser <17>
(Ted) ga Jim
(Jim Speiser) Hello, Budd...An article in a recent Skeptical Inquirer by
Dr. Robert Baker mentioned a phenomenon known as Fantasy-Prone
Personalities as a possible (or to him, almost certain) explanation
for the abduction syndrome. It was Baker's assertion that this
aberrationvhad not been isolated out of the testing done by Dr.
Slater, et.al. any comment?
(Budd) Over the years we've had the complex circumstances of sightings,
abduction accounts, missing time, radar reports and on and on. And
then we've had the theories. Plasmas, ghost lights, birth traumas,
earthquake pressures., and so on. The theories have never met and
accounted for the circumstances. Theorists sit at home, cranking out
ideas, without ever meeting the witnesses, interviewing the
abductees, and so on. An easy job. I've hypnotized so far two
psychiatrists, three psychologists, and about ten psychotherapists -
all abductees, all supportive of my work. I've worked with some of
the most important people in the field of psychology, all of whom
have met, or hypnotized, or otherwise dealt with some of my abductee
subjects. All are willing to admit that no psychological explanation
of these events has yet surfaced. I'm sure some cases can be
explained by swarming bees, fantasy-prone individuals and maybe even
a Klassic plasma or two, but the mystery remains, undaunted. If
Baker wants to help, let him leave his typewriter and pipe at home
and come join the investigation. I can give him plenty to do.
% Moderator recognizes queue #8
Marge Christensen <31>
(Marge Christensen) Budd, do you have reports of biological sample as Dave
Jacobs has? ga
(Budd) Hi, Marge. Are you still cheating on your husband?
(ONLY KIDDING!) HAVE NO WILL POWER. I cannot resist. You're too
kiddable! The question about samples - yes, a few things have turned
up - stains in particular. I'll be adding some material to Dave's
% Moderator recognizes queue #9
(Jim) Budd, I am personally acquainted with a 29 yr old NJ woman who follows
the abduction scenario - traumatize from a "missing time" event early
in her childhood. The event left three triangular marks on her arm,
a vague recollection of being aloft during the episode, a police
search while she was held captive, and even weirdly mottled soil
nearby. What can be done to help her?
(Budd) Jim, I wish I could help. If she's in the NY area please contact me,
as I'm listed. If she's not nearby, perhaps I can find someone close
by. Where is she living now?
(Ted) ok want to answer that?
(Jim) Cambridge, MA
% Moderator recognizes queue #10
Tom Mickus <8>
(Tom Mickus) Me?
(Ted) Yes tom ga
(Tom Mickus) Ok. Budd, in "Intruders" and in the CBC program entitled "The
ET Hypothesis" you made mention of "Alien Writings" which certain
people had received as a result of their encounters. Do you have
anything NEW to add as to their content or form, such as what style
of print were they in and connected to that. At the conclusion of
the CBC program you related the story of how one elderly devout
Catholic Man had himself encountered Aliens in a Park during his
life. From your viewpoint what do you see as the major societal
implications of "CONTACT" finally being made and brought out into
the open. What do you think its effect will be on the Major Religions
of the World. Thanks GA
(Budd) As to the symbols,I've received several more related examples. It's a
matter I'm still keeping confidential, as a way of verifying new
cases, so I won't describe anything. I really don't know what overt,
open contact might mean to the worlds religions. I can't imagine
that some degree of panic wouldn't occur if such a thing were made
public. Our economy is based on the idea of long-term stability - 20
year mortgages, saving for college education, etc., so this kind of
wild card would have to be disruptive. I'm an optimist, though, and
hope we could survive. The biggest problem might be that we and an
alien culture might truly be unable to understand one another. If we
have the trouble we seem to have getting along with Asians or
Africans, how much might this stain our flexibility?ga
% Moderator recognizes queue #11
(mgh) Budd--regarding the pattern for 1st abductions I understand that this
initial contact generally occurs between the ages of 2 and 6.
However, have you found most abductees' initial ex And have you
indeed found any very young subjects? hold on I understand that this
initial contact generally occurs between the ages of 2 and 6.
However, have you found most abductees' initial experiences to have
been roughly extemoporaneous? If not, how long do you suppose this
has been going on? And have you indeed located any young subjects? ga
(Budd) I have reason to believe that some infants have been abducted in
their first year of life. The oldest abduction reports I've received
- probable abductions - occurred in 1929. I have quite a few from
the 30's and many from the forties. The pattern is similar to that
of sighting reports in frequency.ga
(Ted) It is getting late we only have time for one or two more. Next
% Moderator recognizes queue #13
Larry Ledlow <25>
(Larry Ledlow) Hello, Budd. Do abductions occur beyond the prime "fertile"
years? And have fathers of crossbred children seen their children as
have some mothers? ga
(Budd) Good question. Yes, sometimes, but these seem to be rarer. Lots of
the data we have is hard to sort out, but these late abductions do
% Moderator recognizes queue #15
CHRISTOPHER YOUNG <12>
(CHRISTOPHER YOUNG) Hi Budd! Just finished reading "DIMENSIONS" by Vallee
(Budd) I haven't read it yet. I found "Messengers of Deception" almost
impossible to plow though - all paranoid tone and no hard substance.
Unfortunately Vallee, an important researcher in the 60's, has become
a kind of gallic John Keel.
As to the last question by L. Ledlow: I have two cases where
"fathers" of hybrid children report seeing their offspring. As
Lowell Thomas used to say, thank you and good night. ga
(Georgia) ok folks, I am going to close but then Ted has a final comment.
(Ted) I want to thank budd for this evening. It has been OUT OF THIS WORLD!
% The conference has ended
Thank you for attending
(Barak Sommer) thank you budd
(Georgia) Thanks Budd.
(DBC) Many thanks Budd.
(Don Ecker) I feel like I been to a Chinese Rest.....two hours later. Nite
(Tom Mickus) Yes, THANK YOU...
(John Craig) Thanks, Budd
(Jim Speiser) Thanks, Budd! And Marge says she only cheats with aliens.
(CHRISTOPHER YOUNG) Be writing you soon with some stuff, Thanks Budd
(mgh) Thanks,, Budd
(Tom Mickus) Budd, feel free to join the Paranormal CO anytime in the future...
(Budd) Many thanks to you for the sharp questions. See you all I hope in
Nebraska at the MUFON conference.
(John Craig) I'm headed to Nebraska, when and where's the MUFON conf?
(Barak Sommer) fascinating
(Jim Speiser) John -- Lincoln, June 24th thru 26th, at U of N.
(John Craig) Thanks! I'll be there!
(Barak Sommer) Me as well
(Jim Speiser) For MUFON Symposium information, write to...
MUFON, 103 Oldtowne Rd., Seguin, TX, 78155.
Conference Logging Terminated: 22:10:26 EDT
Conference Logging Duration: 02:37:47