What follows is a direct transcript used with permission, of an interview I
conducted with John Lear, author of Lear.txt in the files section. Hopefully,
this interview will answer some of your questions as well as some of mine.

Brad Langton 02-Feb-88 approx. 1:30AM to 3:30AM

 Ok, were "live" so to speak... you just mentioned that there were 70
other species in contact with this world... of which 4 others were overt...
are they aware of the EBE's?

 Yes they are. The types I will mention are listed in a USAF Academy
Physics book called Introductory Space Science Volume 2. I refer to Chapter 13
about page 8 which lists the ones that are most seen. They are the EBE's the
"blondes' (also called the Nordics) they look just like us but are  invariably
blonde haired and blue eyed. Don;t know where they come from but they do not
interact with us except for a few abductions now and then.

 We also have a species that is similar to us in appearance but they are
about 7 ft tall and the main difference is that their eyes wrap around the
head a little more than ours. Another type listed is a small species about 4
ft. tall, very hairy and extremely strong for their size. We don't know where
these guys come from either.  All this was in the aforementioned text which
was withdrawn by the Air Force in the early 70's from the book. But there are
several people that have the original book.  The EBE's are about the only ones
where we are pretty sure where they come from and that is Zeta Reticuli 1 & 2
a binary star system visible only from the southern hemisphere, spectral class
of G 2 and  38 light years from here.  It is possible that they use some form
the the Einstein Rosen Bridge theory (wormholes in space) to get here. We know
all this from the work that Marjorie Fish did in the in the early 70's.  There
is a good article about it in Astronomy Magazine Dec 1974. There was also a
reprint of this article in 1976 which had all the comments and rebuttals and
rebuttals to rebuttals by Carl Sagan, Bob Schaefer etc etc.

 I remember reading about the characterizations of ET's that you have
described about 25 years ago. I also recall a book by a George Adamski or
Adamson... not sure which, regarding these golden haired aliens. In the
Interrupted Journey, I believe it was Betty Hill that under hypnosis revealed
many of the invasive techniques used on abductees. Also, Perhaps it was in the
article on the Zeti Reticuli Incident that a woman under hypnosis
reconstructed a 3D model of the Zeta Star system with the r elative positions
of the other  stars as they would have appeared as established by computer
modeling. I guess  one of the primary questions is if there are other forms
visiting and/or  interacting with humans, are they completely insensitive to
these  "arrangements" put out by the EBE's with the government?

 This may be hard to swallow but its my information from government
sources that the blondes adhere to a universal law of non-interference and
even though the EBE's are not doing us any favors that they, the Blondes will
not do anythingabout it unless the EBE's do something that will affect another
part of the universe. Back to Adamski. He has been labeled as a fraud however
like all things nothing is all black or all white.  Some of his stuff was
true. But its hard to separate which stuff.  He claimed that the Blondes came
from Venus or Mars which is highly highly unlikely.  As far as the map it was
drawn by Betty Hill under hypnosis in 2 D.  It was Majorie Fish that did the
interpretation to bring it into 3 D .

 I was uncertain about who exactly was the originator of the map, so I
gather that the map must necessarily be a matter of speculation regarding its
veracity as well. I'm curious also as to the government's plans, if any, to
deal with an uprising of EBEs should that eventuality occur... or would the
technological gap make such an attempt untenable.

 Its my understanding that we have already lost the battle. This is the
reason why MJ-12 is in such a panic. They had a lot of well laid plans to
inform us etc. etc. and when the deception was confirmed about 1984 it was all
out the window. Back to Betty Hill for a minute...under hypnosis she recalled
being given a pregnancy test...a needle was inserted in her stomach. She
recalls saying that this was no pregnancy test here on earth  (1962)
Amniocentesis was developed around 1972-1973 and uses the exact same
procedures.  In 1986 a British doctor had given an amniocentesis to a woman
and was looking at the fluid under a microscope.  He saw a tiny speck and
started enlarging it. When he got it big enough to see what he found was what
looked like a computer chip attached to one of the chromosomes.  This doctor
and 6 others wrote an open letter in Nature Magazine, one of Britains most
respected scientific journals, along with a picture of the chip, and asked any
doctor or scientist anywhere that could held explain what they were seeing.
If you do not have a copy of this page, I can send it to you.

 That would be helpful. Also the Vol, issue, date etc. Recently in the
INF treaty negotiations, Gorbachev indicated that despite prior claims, they
too were working on an SDI program... is there any connection between our
program and theirs and if the battle is lost, why are these attempts being
made?

 I wish I knew the answer to that. Several rumors have come out of the
test site recently and one of them was that every test shot this year has been
to make a giant room. The shots are very clean and as soon as everything
subsides they move in equipment to make walls, ceiling, floors and various
levels.

 Several critics have highlighted the apparent discrepancies between
our medical technology and that of the EBEs as to synthesizing plasma
material. Also, technological gaps between our cultures suggest that
solicitation of indigenous humans for their undertakings seems akin to asking
help from chimpanzees... my analogy... what about these concerns?

 All of these  questions are valid and show a lot of thought. All I know
is what I wrote.  Its very hard to speculate the reasons why or why not a
species almost a billion years older than us would do anything.  This is not a
cop-out...I just don't know and don't want to guess.

 Given that material that you have access to is ambiguous on some of
these issue and that there may be a hidden agenda on the part of the EBEs
regarding the purposes for their being here, is it not also possible that,
assuming there is a "truth" here, which I'm sure you understand, must remain
unsubstantiated in the absence of hard data, that the government may also,
unknown to you or perhaps others "in the know," a failsafe mechanism to
undermine this whole EBE project if the need should arise?

 Its my understanding from those 'in the know;' (and as late as one week
ago) that the situation is 'ominous'

 Please understand my pauses... have to consider the next question...

 Ok  meantime looking for the date and issue of Nature.

 I recall now, one of my users requested information on the "Roswell
Incident" and if it were in any way tied to any of this?

 Yes, the Roswell crash was the first recovered flying saucer crash in
the U.S.  Bill Moore located 90 material witnesses to the crash.  It was near
Corona, N.M. and a few months ago I interviewed Mrs. Procter near whose ranch
this thing crashed.  4 bodies were recovered.  There is one person still alive
at this moment who helped Mac Brazel drag some of the wreckage to the shed.
He and Brazel were approached at that time by (I know its hard to believe but
the guy is going to come forward soon) an alien who told them both to keep
their mouths shut.  He is the last guy alive that was directly connected with
that retrieval.

 Are you saying that the others involved were murdered?

 No. No. They have just passed away. That was a long time ago.  The last
guy to die was Maj. Jesse Marcel, The intelligence officer at Roswell who went
out and helped pick up the wreckage.  Before he died a few years ago he went
public with his account which was that the crash was not a balloon or a radar
reflector or an airplane.  He didn't state what it was, but said it was not of
this earth.  I have a transcript of the cassette tape of his memories of
picking up the wreckage, its only a page long if you would like me to send
that.

 Of course, any information you have will be helpful... what of
yourself, why are you coming forward now, particularly placing the spotlight
on yourself... aren't you concerned that there may be some sort of
repercussions from the government regarding the stir this is and will continue
to cause?

 Hopefully the spotlight will be on the information and not on myself.
No there is not too much worry because well let me say that 5 years ago I
wouldn't have gotten away with this but things are so screwed up now that one
voice talking to...what 50? 100? people cant make any possible difference.
Also if something was going to happen it would have happened a few weeks ago.
I wrote Dr. Lew Allen, Director of JPL and MJ-12 member that I was going to do
a story on his participation in MJ-12 particularly because JPL employed 8000
people in the Southern California area. I also enclosed a copy of my
hypothesis and told him it was on Paranet and Compuserve.  Dr. Allen has a
reputation of responding to all mail in a very prompt manner. But me? I didn't
hear anything. Not even a "John Lear you must be crazy."  He wrote a letter to
Max Fiebleman of  Los Angeles on the 18th of December Max had sent him a copy
of the Hudson Valley video and asked Dr. Allen to look at it. Dr. Allen
responded that he had taken a quick glance but did not have the time for
anything more and on the basis of what he saw determined that it was a blimp.
He also wished Max a Merry Christmas. Now......this is one of the worlds
greatest scientists?  Not interested in that Hudson Valley video tape?  Gimme
a break.

 There are certainly a lot of inconsistencies seemingly from
everywhere on this issue. As you know, Jim Speiser and Paranet are often
published in some form, usually a quote from Jim, in the major UFOlogy
magazines... I would suspect that this matter will be reaching a lot more
people than just those of us here in the BBS community. What of the future...
can we expect more information, hard or soft evidence that will help align the
apparent inconsistencies or at best, give a more cohesive picture o f some of
the answers to questions that your original release has raised?

 I would be very surprised if some kind of statement from the government
is not forthcoming within the year, more probably within 6 months possibly
much sooner.,. Thats about all I can speculate from the information I am
getting.

 Well, you can be assured that we will be continuing to watch these
developments should they occur. Last year there was a similar promise of major
information by year's end... you got in just under the wire but the other
information was not this information, at least not necessarily as coming from
you. Time is running short for me here and I want to thank you for incurring
the phone bill for this interview but I think it is important that we try to
get as many answers on this as possible Do you hav e any closing statements
that you would like to make at this time?

 Just to thank you for your time and I will be sending you the
aforementioned documents etc.

 Thank you very much John, you're participation will no doubt add a
level of credibility to your desire to spare little expense in helping us find
the truth about all this.

 Thanks again, and talk to you later.


 <<>> Copyright @1988 National Fringe Sciences Information
 Service. All Rights Reserved.