On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 22:19:10 +0000 (UTC), Jason Spaceman <I@Eat.Spammers.For.Breakfast.com>, Message ID: <d5auvvsjog03gkktb6oot3mclphoci51fc@4ax.com> wrote in alt.atheism;

>Since the article requires an account in order to read it, I'm going
>to do something that is highly illegal and could get me hard time in a
>federal penitentiary; I'm going to post the entire thing. :-)
>
>------------------------------------------------
>Posted on Fri, Jan. 09, 2004
>Evolution battle looms in Missouri
>Lawmakers push alternative theory
>By JOE ROBERTSON The Kansas City Star

I wrote the representative.

Susan.Phillips@house.mo.gov

Dear Mrs. Phillips;

I was saddened to read this article. I must say it illustrates how education is in free-fall.

Evolution isn't the rubbish the Discovery Institute or the Institute for Creationist Research says it is, or what the general public thinks it is. In the case of the DI, ICR, these folks blatantly, casually, unrepentantly, and repeatedly bear deliberate false witness.

Please excuse me for being a bit crude, but it is necessary to illustrate a point. Creationism and ID are to education what x-rated films would be in a church service.

Evolution has nothing to do with origin of life. Evolution deals with things after life has appeared. (Abiogenesis is general name for the theories regarding origin of life. I do not pretend to know anything about the subject)

Even the Pope has no problem with evolution. He's indicated it's the method God utilized in His plan.

Evolution, like gravity, is both fact and theory. Strangely, gravity isn't daemonized like evolution is by the uneducated and bearers of false witness. More on this in a minute.

Evolution is the change of alle frequencies in a given population through time. Evolution is observed via the birth of every baby. It is also observed through the appearance of new diseases, strains of diseases, and the decreasing effectiveness of antibiotics. That is the fact part.

The theory part of evolution is the attempt to explain the observations. As time goes on more and more is learned.

Creationism and Intelligent Design are both nothing more than bearing deliberate false witness. They have nothing to do with theory and everything to do with forwarding religious dogma with the power of the state behind it. This is a blatant and unrepentant violation of the U.S. Constitution.

Theory does not mean 'guess.' It is working to explain observations-facts.

One problem with Creationism, ID, is there is no objective supporting evidence the universe was manufactured (created).

A second problem is the broken logic involved with the Creator concept. That is if the universe had to be created (manufactured) then so does the Creator. This leads to an ever regressive chain of 'creators' which means creator 'x' isn't it. If one indicates their particular deity didn't need a creator, that also leaves the 'door' open for the universe to 'step through' as well. In other words, you can't have it both ways.

Other than via Comparative Religion classes, religion belongs in the home and in houses of worship. Jesus said the same when He said "Schools are for education not venues for religious indoctrination. The Founding Fathers were well aware of what happens when religion becomes involved with government. You get lots of bloodshed and atrocities. Think back to your history classes and what was going on in England-the purges, the imprisonment, the torture and executions. The Founding Fathers endeavored to keep that misery from our shores.

Consider also when the Church ran things. It was a thousand years of misery, and horror. It's called "The Dark Ages" for a reason.

I was pointed to this link in response to a question I asked. It compares the Ten Commandments of Moses to the Ten Commandments by Solon the Athenean centuries before. I found it of great interest. I think you will, too. http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/features/2000/carrier2.html

I urge you to remove your co-sponsorship, and urge others to do the same, of House Bill 911. The bill has nothing to do with education other than to further dismantle the system.

I indicated I'd come back to gravity. An individual wrote about gravity utilizing the same misinformation tactics the ICR and DI used on evolution to make a point.

/quote

The INTELLIGENT GRAPPLING FAQ.

1. What is Intelligent Grappling (IG?)

Intelligent Grappling is the SCIENTIFIC Theory that Intelligent and Conscious Agents "push" things together. It is the only coherent theory that explains why things fall.

2. Doesn't gravity explain why things fall?

NO. Gravity only attempts to describe what objects do. It does not explain WHY they do them. It is that challenge that Intelligent Grappling is intended to meet.

3. Aren't there theories that explain why things fall?

NO. There are theories by atheists and secular humanists that TRY, but they all lead to crazy conclusions no human being has ever seen, like black holes and the so-called "Big Bang". Intelligent Grappling ONLY deals with the visible world.

4. Is Intelligent Grappling a scientific theory?

YES. Intelligent Grappling is the ONLY VIABLE THEORY for why things fall. Physicists have tried for a hundred years to explain why things fall and THEY HAVE FAILED. It is time for a new theory, one backed up by all the evidence, to finally solve the question. IG isthat theory.

5. Isn't "Intelligent Grappling" just another way of saying, "Angels push things around?"

NO. Intelligent Grappling says nothing at all about the nature or origins of the conscious agents that perform the actual act of pushing and grappling. All IG says is that conscious agents are thecause of all apparent "gravitic" phenomenon.

6. In order to accept Intelligent Design, must I accept Intelligent Grappling as well?

YES. Intelligent Design says that there is a non-naturalistic, conscious designer at work at the biological level. Intelligent Grappling says that there is a non-naturalistic, conscious grappler at the physicial level. Accepting a naturalistic explanation for one phenomenon but a non-naturalistic explanation for another is a philosophically corrupt position and we do not advocate it.

Elf Sternberg

/quote

Thank you for your time.

Kind Regards,

Stoney "Designated Rascal and Rapscallion and SCAMPERMEISTER!"

When in doubt, SCAMPER about! When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere! When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough! /end humour alert

alt.atheism military veteran #11 {so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}