erin1000 asked this question on 7/10/2000:

I was involved with somebody for over 2 1/2 years and it ended quite badly. I was hurt beyond belief by someone I thought I loved. I seriously think the man is a maniac (for lack of a better term.) He is very intense, very hyper, immature and very sexually-driven. In fact, our relationship was purely sexual for the last two years we were involved. He exploited me and played some major head games. He seemed like two people to me. He can be very helpful and supportive, but he can also be cold and very nasty. I have experienced both sides. We stopped talking fairly recently, though he continued to call me almost daily even though he started dating someone new. I also started a new relationship and it looked like we were both moving on. Yet after almost 2 months he has returned! He called me last week late at night while I wasn't home, but I knew he called because I have Caller ID. I didn't realize he called until 2 days ago. I called him back because I was very curious why he would call me out of the blue after all this time. He was a little nervous sounding, almost defensive. He said he wanted to make sure I was still alive. Who is he kidding? I really think he is sick. My self-esteem was shot to hell after being involved with him. Why would he really call me? I think he knows I'm still alive.

shrink4u gave this response on 7/10/2000:

Dear Erin,

I'm not sure it even matters why your "ex" called! You seem to know that he has problems and he definitely caused you a lot of hurt, pain and continued suffering.

I agree that it sounds like your ex-boyfriend has problems (perhaps one reason why he called). However, you are not responsible for his problems. You didn't cause them and you can't cure them for him. Try to focus on your new relationship and invest your time and energy into that instead of wondering and worrying about the old relationship.

You know it's time you let go of this old relationship and move on with your life. You and he both are involved in new relationships. Something that helps me sometimes is writing down all the "positives" and negatives of a situation. For example, you might write down all the positives of your new relationship down one side of a piece of paper, while listing the "negatives" of your past relationship on the other side. I think you'll see there's no comparison; I suggest you refer back to this written list frequently for awhile.

Another thought: Many people make the mistake of doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting DIFFERENT results!! I find myself doing this sometimes, and I end up wondering why I ever thought the results would be any different! The same with your old boyfriend. If you get re-involved in any way (e.g., questioning his phone call), can you really expect anything other than continued hurt and pain???

The "Feeling Good Handbook" by David Burns is a self-help resource recommended by professionals and readers alike. It's a really good book about changing your attitude and outlook on life, and it explores various relationship issues like yours. This book helped my husband and me both, and it's a resource for both healthy relationships and realizing when you're in a destructive one. I highly recommend it!

Letting go, moving on, accepting the situation the way it is -- none of this is easy! However, if you want to get on with your life and move forward, this is the only way to do so. I KNOW your intellect, anyway, knows you don't want to move backward at this point.

Your basic goodness and sincerity show through in your posting. Remember, you deserve only the very best in a relationship and in life!! You deserve much better than what your old boyfriend provided. Please feel free to write any time! You are in my thoughts and prayers, Erin - Take care!!

Love, Mary

shrink4u gave this follow-up answer on 7/10/2000:

P.S. If, on the off chance you find you're again involved with a man who treats you badly, please write again!! I'd love to hear from you again about how things are going in general!!

erin1000 asked this follow-up question on 7/10/2000:

Good point. There is no point in analyzing why Billy called, but I guess more importantly, I wonder where he gets his nerve from. I was polite on the phone, but it's so clear to me that he has problems he's not willing to face. He wouldn't face them with me, and I doubt he will with his current "love."

Unfortunately, the relationship I was in after Billy came to an end recently, but it was definitely a happier ending. Jon and I dated for about four months, but it was obvious he was having difficulty moving forward in the relationship after a couple of months. He was engaged about three years ago and his then-fiancee abruptly broke up with him. He was devastated, to say the least. He has also suffered the loss of a sister, two uncles and his parents divorced when he was 16. That's the tip of the iceberg. In general, he has suffered a lot of loss. Too much for one person. We met about a year ago, and we became aquaintances. We started dating in February and it was truly wonderful. It was a "real" relationship...one I was very happy to be in until it was becoming clear that Jon was getting distant, I suppose fearful of being let-down again. So, here I am. Jon and I made an attempt at friends, but everytime we were together, it sure didn't feel like friends. It seems these days he can't handle that one either. It's too bad. He seems angry at the world. One thing I learned from my experience with Billy is that you can't help people who don't want to help themselves.

I hope with Jon it was just a case of bad timing and maybe down the road our paths will cross again and the time will be right. In the meantime, I'm trying not to be broken-hearted, though I love Jon with all my heart. He is a very gentle, caring person...quite the contrary to Billy. Is God testing me? Strange timing for Billy to call me. I will definitely get the book you suggested. I'm all for self-improvement. A great one I read was "Life Strategies" by Phil McGraw. (My mom suggested it just after Billy and I went our separate ways...I was a mess. I even went for counseling a few times.) Ugh...the more I think about it, why do I even care about the reason he called. It's so obvious his needs aren't being filled with his new girlfriend...but not because of anything she hasn't done. He is an insatiable person. Always looking for more than he has. Very sad, indeed, because he has a lot of good in him.

Any suggestions in regard to Jon? He is a gem.

shrink4u gave this response on 7/10/2000:

Dear Erin,

First, thanks for YOUR tip about a book you found helpful! I'll definitely look it up!

Unfortunately, neither you nor I can look into Jon's head or heart to know exactly what he's thinking and feeling. I know that the number of losses he's experienced would make anyone reluctant to get too close to anyone else, as in a new relationship.

It could be that Jon got scared because he was feeling too much for you too soon. It could be that he's still grieving the loss of his "ex." It's possible he doesn't want to rush into another commitment so soon after the last ended. Three years isn't really that much time when it comes to that kind of loss and the grief associated with it.

In fact, I think Jon IS mad at the world. Anger plus helplessness (to do anything about the situation - loss) is the formula for depression. He certainly has reason to be depressed! Whether or not that's the case, anger is one of the stages of grief that people go through. These "stages" often come back to the person, especially as he experiences even more losses

The situation with Jon is probably not about YOU at all!. I think it's quite possible that Jon's confused about a lot of things right now; he sounds angry, and perhaps scared about his new feelings for you.

I hope you realize that YOU are not the one wearing her problem on her sleeve (as it sounds Billy and perhaps Jon have done around you). No matter how bad a relationship, I think we all end up feeling like something's wrong with us when it breaks up.

You sound like such a sensitive, caring, likeable person!! There are lots of nice guys just waiting to be met!! Don't let the end of these two prior relationships (which both started out with at least two strikes against them) - keep you from moving on with your life and being ready for the next adventure!!

I wish you the very best of luck with this, Erin. Please, please let me know how it's going for you, and feel free to ask more questions whenever you need and/or want to! You will be in my thoughts and prayers. Best wishes, and please TAKE CARE!!

Much Love, Mary

shrink4u gave this follow-up answer on 7/10/2000:

P.S. Please don't forget to rate all answers!! Many thanks!

erin1000 asked this follow-up question on 7/12/2000:

Hi Mary,

Thank you for your help. You have a lot of good insight and seem very knowledgable. I was thinking about the things you said in your last response and somethings occurred to me. I want to know what you think.

Jon and I made an attempt at being friends after we broke up. We continued to check in with each other and saw each other a few times, but everytime we saw each other it was more like we were still a couple. I thought it was very nice, actually. We were still able to laugh, talk, hold hands and kiss, but things always seemed to turn so serious for him.

One night, Jon and I were laying next to each other in silence after we had been doing some serious kissing, etc. He asked me "What are you thinking?" I said it didn't seem like we were being all that friendly. I meant it as a joke. He got defensive, but we dropped the conversation, he gave me a kiss good night and left. The next week, we made plans to go to a baseball game together. We ran into each other later that night and ended up going swimming with some friends. In the pool, he tried to kiss me. At first I didn't let him, and then I did. I said to him "See... this should be fun. Don't be so serious." One thing led to another and we ended up sleeping together.

Jon does not take sex lightly. He has only slept with four other women in his life (he's almost 29). Anyway, he stayed over and the next morning it seemed like something was bothering him. He said he would call me to figure out plans for the game, but I could tell he seemed a bit confused. We ended up not going to the ball game because something came up with his Dad.

We later talked about it. He seemed ticked off and said I'm "too tough to figure out." I think I've been clear about my feelings. Maybe I haven't. Maybe he's afraid of staying attached to me and getting hurt? What do you think? I would never hurt him. I love him and I'm sure he knows that. Why does he doubt me so much?

Thanks a lot for helping me.

shrink4u gave this response on 7/12/2000:

Dear Erin,

It may be a wild guess, but I think your situation with Jon has a lot to do with all the losses he's experienced. I think it's probably a difficult time for Jon for relationships in general. My medical books confirm that his behavior isn't unusual for someone grieving the loss of a loved one or loved oneS).

It's agreed that talking about the person who died most often helps the "bereaved" come to terms with it. Ask him questions about his ex-fiance and other loved ones' deaths, and more importantly about their lives. Even though it's painful at first, talking about these things with close friends and relatives is said to help people come to terms with their losses and thus get on with their own lives more quickly.

One of my medical books has the following OPINIONS, which might help: "In allowing the person to talk to you about his or her loss, you encourage an outlet for the expression of grief that can only be beneficial. . . The intensity of grief usually starts to wane after about six weeks, and is sometimes replaced by a more general state of depression and apathy. Grief is usually minimal by six months, although it will probably recur occasionally in the years that follow. By the end of a year, most bereaved people have recovered from their loss for the most part, andf have started building a new life for themselves."

At least one opinion held by professionals is "There is no such thing as automatically "getting over" a loss. No one can determine how quickly or how slowly a person will move through depression or other so-called stages of grief. Nor should pressure be applied to "get on with life." (Mayo Clinic Family Handbook)

Try to be patient, if you want your relationship with Jon to work. Talk to him about his losses, and understand that his actions aren't unusual considering the grief he's probably still experiencing. You can be extremely helpful to Jon by being there for him, listening, caring, diverting his attention from his losses, and he certainly won't EVER forget that!

I think you should take the relationship with very slowly, and try to understand his weird behavior in terms of the losses he's experienced or preferably as a COMBINATION of this and other factors. If you decide that this is more than you are willing or able to give to a relationship (and who would blame you), then you might want to move on. I have a feeling that Jon's recovery is going to take a long time.

I really sense that you're a very caring, sensitive, empathetic person. Take care of yourself, and if you have time I'd love to hear how it's going. I feel almost as if I know you some, and I DO honestly care, Erin. My thoughts and prayers are with both of you.

Mary

P.S. Elizabeth Kubler Ross's description of the five stages of grief might be helpful. Her writings have become well-accepted and often recommended by physicians, psychiatrists, etc

erin1000 asked this follow-up question on 7/12/2000:

There is no doubt that the reason we broke up was linked very directly to Jon's past. I am just wondering why he became suddenly frustrated with everything ever since we slept together. I don't know how he determined I am "too tough to figure out." I think he has very little faith in relationships in general, which is why he has chosen to seek the security of his friends as his refuge.

You're right. I think he is indeed grieving, but I also think that Jon has never been at a point in his adult life where he wasn't grieving a loss of SOMETHING or SOMEONE.

I want to be a positive outlet for Jon, but I think in a sense I am viewed as the "enemy." After all, I was his girlfriend not long ago and he had a lot of doubts about his capabilities as a boyfriend when we were together. It stopped coming "naturally" for him, maybe because he was fearful of losing someone else. I am truly his friend, but he seems to be doing more damage to himself lately, rather than doing positive things. He drinks quite a bit. (His father also had a drinking problem.)

I just hope he knows how far I would go to help him. I think he is off base on where I am coming from and I don't know how to make it clear that I love him unconditionally. It seems he doesn't want to accept my love. Is this related to the loss issue?? Perhaps I should allow for some time to pass. Any thoughts?

shrink4u gave this response on 7/12/2000:

De4ar Erin,

I don't know if YOU know how insightful you are with regard to this and other relationships!! I think you are right on target with regard to the questions you ask. For example, I DO think his inability or unwillingness to accept your love is related to the loss issues as well as other issues in his life. I also think it's wise to allow for some time to pass - partly so he can get his own thoughts and feelings straightened out. I also think that he's fearful of losing anyone else, and perhaps he will always be, to some extent.

All you can do is tell him again that you hope he knows "how far you would go to help him." Also tell him you think he might be "off base" on where you're coming from and "I don't knopw how tio make it clear that I love you unconditionally." Then the ball is in Jon's court.

My only concern is that you perhaps become TOO involved and empathetic when it comes to other people's problems. I am that way myself, and I hate to give it a label, but it is called "codependent" if done to an unhealthy extent. Your heart is in the right place, but perhaps you are into helping others so much that you aren't adequately taking care of your own needs and wants (??)

I know I have to guard against being too codependent myself. That's one reason why I recommended the Melanie Beattie book. I think it's worth looking into!!

Much love, Mary

shrink4u gave this follow-up answer on 7/12/2000:

P.S. Erin, another aspect of codependency is that for some reason we keep being attracted to people with problems of various kinds. I can tell you more if you're interested (?!!)

erin1000 asked this follow-up question on 7/12/2000:

In my relationship with Billy, it was complete codependence, so I have learned not to get too involved in other people's problems. Jon knows all about what I went through with Billy and he always promised to never mistreat me. I know he never would. Jon thinks I still carry some hurt from Billy...I'm sure I still do.

He also knows my history of trying to help other people who are in need and he knows how hurt I have been as a result. For instance, I invested so much emotional time in Billy and ended up heartbroken. Maybe Jon is looking out for me and I don't even know it. Maybe he doesn't want me to repeat history either. I hope and pray after some time passes, Jon realizes who I am and loves himself enough to give it a chance. In the meantime, I will continue to do good things for myself and move on. I e-mailed him a few days ago and told him that I love him with all my heart, no matter what. Perhaps this will best set in after I am absent long enough for him to let his guard down and think. Am I wrong for thinking this way?

shrink4u gave this response on 7/12/2000:

Dear Erin,

No, you're absolutely not wrong to think that way. Also, every sentence you started with "Maybe" is also a good possibility in my opinion. I do think Jon needs some time and space.

Please feel free to ask me anything, any time, Erin!! Unfortunately, though, I have to go for probably the rest of today since it's both my husband's and my son's birthday today!!

I enjoy talking with you, partly because you have so much wisodm and insight into your relationships -- honest!!

Much love,

Mary

¤º°`°º¤ø,¸,ø¤º°Good Luck`°º¤ø,¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,

P.S. On a personal note - I love your name! My son would have been named Erin if he had been a girl. He ended up Eric instead. .. . take care and please keep in touch!

erin1000 asked this follow-up question on 7/12/2000:

Mary,

Thank you for the compliment on my namesake. My family is Irish, but my parents' watched The Waltons in the 70's when my mom was pregnant with me and there were two sisters, Erin and Elizabeth. My mom loved both names, so she named me "Erin Elizabeth." If I were a boy, I think Eric would have been just as nice.

I hope you enjoy your husband's (and son's) birthday! How neat that they fall on the same day! I will stay in touch. I too enjoy talking with you. Your objectivity and insight is truly a blessing. Take care.

Love, Erin

shrink4u gave this response on 7/12/2000:

Thank YOU, Erin!! Talk to ya later, okay?? Bye for now. . .

The average rating for this answer is